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Dusty Wilson Boot Discussion.

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10 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

True, some were as much as fifteen quid though, depending on which one, Dusty Wilson 'Can't do without you' and Blind Willie Johnson 'Dark was the night cold was the ground' were both fifteen quid. The ebay blurb described them as being fully licenced reissues.

Is this the Dusty

Dusty.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Is this the Dusty

I couldn't possibly comment, for all I know that could be an original. It was that record, from memory I think the boots had Bronze coloured labels, but again I can't swear to nuffin' officer...

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6 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

I couldn't possibly comment, for all I know that could be an original. It was that record, from memory I think the boots had Bronze coloured labels, but again I can't swear to nuffin' officer...

I think the real one is a bronze colour but perhaps someone else can confirm please

 

Dusty.jpg

Edited by Blackpoolsoul

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37 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I think the real one is a bronze colour but perhaps someone else can confirm please

 

Dusty.jpg

BOTH this issue AND the one above look EXACTLY like both the original issues.  The bronze-coloured lower one cannot be faked, as the way the label sits on the raised centre portion of the record never looks how it does on the original on modern pressings due to differences in the vinyl and the height of the rise in the centre area, and the fullness of the arc of the rim of the raised area.  The black-labeled issue above could possibly be a replica boot.  If so, it is fantastically well made.  I can't see a flaw in it.  It looks exactly like my original, in every detail.  Usually, there is less sharpness in the print, or the lines, or some lightness in the background near the print, if it was made from a photo. I don't think original fonts that don't exist anymore can be reproduced to use as a newly printed font from typesetting.  That would be too impractical.  I would guess that photographing an original is probably the only way that facsimile labels are produced.  In any case, making new fonts from scratch, to try to reproduce the old font, would likely produce a font that could be different enough to recognise/deduce that it is NOT the font that was used on the original issue.

I would bet the farm that both of these are originals, and that the boots were the black issue, which is easier to attempt to reproduce, and, I believe, was the first press run.  I believe that both press runs occurred during the initial run of sales of that release, but were pressed at 2 different plants, probably because the first was too busy, and Detroit stores were out of their first batch, and requesting refills that Bronse couldn't deliver.

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13 minutes ago, RobbK said:

BOTH this issue AND the one above look EXACTLY like both the original issues.  The bronze-coloured lower one cannot be faked, as the way the label sits on the raised centre portion of the record never looks how it does on the original on modern pressings due to differences in the vinyl and the height of the rise in the centre area, and the fullness of the arc of the rim of the raised area.  The black-labeled issue above could possibly be a replica boot.  If so, it is fantastically well made.  I can't see a flaw in it.  It looks exactly like my original, in every detail.  Usually, there is less sharpness in the print, or the lines, or some lightness in the background near the print, if it was made from a photo. I don't think original fonts that don't exist anymore can be reproduced to use as a newly printed font from typesetting.  That would be too impractical.  I would guess that photographing an original is probably the only way that facsimile labels are produced.  In any case, making new fonts from scratch, to try to reproduce the old font, would likely produce a font that could be different enough to recognise/deduce that it is NOT the font that was used on the original issue.

I would bet the farm that both of these are originals, and that the boots were the black issue, which is easier to attempt to reproduce, and, I believe, was the first press run.  I believe that both press runs occurred during the initial run of sales of that release, but were pressed at 2 different plants, probably because the first was too busy, and Detroit stores were out of their first batch, and requesting refills that Bronse couldn't deliver.

 I have done some more research and Discogs have the black label as released in 2012 (as a re-issue) maybe the original black label is missing from their database

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2 hours ago, RobbK said:

It MUST be.  I bought mine in 1965.

Isn't the original black press a New York press.  It also states that on 45cat.  Gold or Bronze being Detroit press?

The one in the above post looks like a recent press looking at the circles under the label.

There is also a chance that the so-called legit looking copies seen, out of sight etc are also fake.  If they are going to press fake originals they will also press fake recent issues, they do appear to be more  credible than a boot.

Edited by chalky

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8 hours ago, chalky said:

Isn't the original black press a New York press.  It also states that on 45cat.  Gold or Bronze being Detroit press?

The one in the above post looks like a recent press looking at the circles under the label.

There is also a chance that the so-called legit looking copies seen, out of sight etc are also fake.  If they are going to press fake originals they will also press fake recent issues, they do appear to be more  credible than a boot.

Yes, the bronze-coloured one is the Detroit pressing, which l believe, was pressed at American.  Yes, the black issue's font looks like a New York font that was common in the early-to-mid '60s.  Now that you mention it, I agree that circular indentation around the centre hole of the Detroit pressing was NOT on any of American's records of that time.  So, maybe that is the boot.

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2 hours ago, Ted Massey said:

The Black original Dusty Wilson has Sheldon and Audio Matrix in the runouts. the black one in the picture has the now infamous circles in the label 

IMG_1261.JPG

So is the 2012 "re-issue" deffo a bootleg then ?

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1 hour ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

So is the 2012 "re-issue" deffo a bootleg then ?

I would imagine those who own the rights didn’t receive any money. Not to say something wasn’t lodged with ASCSP or whoever. It is s popular trick to say they can’t trace the owners, pay a small fee and hope the rights owner doesn’t come forward. Sort of semi legit bootleg if you like as those doing them exploiting a loop hole inter system. Others are out of copyright too. 

Edited by chalky

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Slightly off-topic but, Claude 'Dusty' Williams of Tomangoes fame was rumoured to be another moniker for the Dusty Wilson discussed here.

Indeed when Claude Williams was brought over here by Neil Rushden he was given billing on the posters as 'Dusty Wilson of Tomangoes' and obviously was quite happy to appear under that name, both onstage and on the poster.

Much later when interviewed by Hitsville Chalky, Chalky asked him outright whether he was the very same 'Dusty' who had recorded under the name Wilson. Williams then stated categorically that he was NOT that Dusty at all and had never recorded under the Wilson name. 

My lass had quite some discussion with HC about it during one of her many Tomangoes discussions and neither could draw any conclusion either way! HC showed her the interview and as he did indeed state it wasn't him, when my lass showed him the poster he was at odds, they both were, strange indeed!

Only thing I can say is that when I first heard the 'Can't do without you' with no knowledge of the above, my first reaction was 'sounds like the voice on Tomangoes!' 

Wouldn't mind one of the Dusty Wilson 45s even if it were a legit reissue, wouldn't want a boot though, although if I'm being honest I do have a fair selection of the 'Out Of the Past' 45s that I believe were boots, I hang onto them as they were gifted to me when I first joined the scene!

Apologies for the thread drift, although it is somewhat connected.:hatsoff2:

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10 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Slightly off-topic but, Claude 'Dusty' Williams of Tomangoes fame was rumoured to be another moniker for the Dusty Wilson discussed here.

Indeed when Claude Williams was brought over here by Neil Rushden he was given billing on the posters as 'Dusty Wilson of Tomangoes' and obviously was quite happy to appear under that name, both onstage and on the poster.

Much later when interviewed by Hitsville Chalky, Chalky asked him outright whether he was the very same 'Dusty' who had recorded under the name Wilson. Williams then stated categorically that he was NOT that Dusty at all and had never recorded under the Wilson name. 

My lass had quite some discussion with HC about it during one of her many Tomangoes discussions and neither could draw any conclusion either way! HC showed her the interview and as he did indeed state it wasn't him, when my lass showed him the poster he was at odds, they both were, strange indeed!

Only thing I can say is that when I first heard the 'Can't do without you' with no knowledge of the above, my first reaction was 'sounds like the voice on Tomangoes!' 

Wouldn't mind one of the Dusty Wilson 45s even if it were a legit reissue, wouldn't want a boot though, although if I'm being honest I do have a fair selection of the 'Out Of the Past' 45s that I believe were boots, I hang onto them as they were gifted to me when I first joined the scene!

Apologies for the thread drift, although it is somewhat connected.:hatsoff2:

Dusty Wilson has a very distinctive voice,I've never believed that he is the singer in the Tomangoes. 

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22 minutes ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Dusty Wilson has a very distinctive voice,I've never believed that he is the singer in the Tomangoes. 

Some do say that.

Just searching the site to add the poster I mentioned to my post and saw a comment from Kev Roberts that when he interviewed Claude Williams he had stated that he WAS the same Dusty and had recorded under the name Dusty Wilson!

It is a conundrum that's how come I raised the point!

Just found it, seems that Claude Williams was quite happy about this statement when he appeared over here onstage at Soulvation's event.

It isn't something that can be argued from either side, the man has contradicted himself, it's something we are probably never going to know for sure, my opinion is though that he would've been mortified to see himself billed under the wrong name, that's all I can say about it!

636F3B0A-881B-47F2-8278-844B95855940.thumb.jpeg.3dd10440dbd4482f8a55ccee139c548c.jpg

kr.jpg

Edited by BabyBoyAndMyLass
Added screenshot.

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12 minutes ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Some do say that.

Just searching the site to add the poster I mentioned to my post and saw a comment from Kev Roberts that when he interviewed Claude Williams he had stated that he WAS the same Dusty and had recorded under the name Dusty Wilson!

It is a conundrum that's how come I raised the point!

Just found it, seems that Claude Williams was quite happy about this statement when he appeared over here onstage at Soulvation's event.

It isn't something that can be argued from either side, the man has contradicted himself, it's something we are probably never going to know for sure, my opinion is though that he would've been mortified to see himself billed under the wrong name, that's all I can say about it!

636F3B0A-881B-47F2-8278-844B95855940.thumb.jpeg.3dd10440dbd4482f8a55ccee139c548c.jpg

kr.jpg

I understand what you're saying and I think it's something that will always be debated. 

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I noticed all the black label versions of the song have Zebra/ Glodis as the music publishers and all the gold label versions

credit just Zebra. Is there a Gold Bronse label with the 2 publisher credits? Also- where does the version with the address on the label

fit in- is this an early pressing or a later one?

d2.jpg

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14 hours ago, the yank said:

I noticed all the black label versions of the song have Zebra/ Glodis as the music publishers and all the gold label versions

credit just Zebra. Is there a Gold Bronse label with the 2 publisher credits? Also- where does the version with the address on the label

fit in- is this an early pressing or a later one?

d2.jpg

 

The Zebra relation may be connected here. Not sure which came first but address copy seems more likely or though both are legit

 

Dusty.jpg

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16 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Some do say that.

Just searching the site to add the poster I mentioned to my post and saw a comment from Kev Roberts that when he interviewed Claude Williams he had stated that he WAS the same Dusty and had recorded under the name Dusty Wilson!

It is a conundrum that's how come I raised the point!

Just found it, seems that Claude Williams was quite happy about this statement when he appeared over here onstage at Soulvation's event.

It isn't something that can be argued from either side, the man has contradicted himself, it's something we are probably never going to know for sure, my opinion is though that he would've been mortified to see himself billed under the wrong name, that's all I can say about it!

636F3B0A-881B-47F2-8278-844B95855940.thumb.jpeg.3dd10440dbd4482f8a55ccee139c548c.jpg

kr.jpg

The Dusty Wilson on Bronze and Zebra, his name is Eddie Wilson.  

Edited by chalky

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