Dear All,

The term "Northern" soul appears to relate to almost all soul records and wondering why is this.

Yes I am a true Southerner, often frequenting venues during the late 80s/early 90s and there was always a pretty clear distinction between the "Northern" records/soul scene and the "southern" Modern soul records/scene yes including the "rare groove" scene, but i always knew a northern soul record from other soul genres - it was pretty easy to tell.

Everywhere i look now its "Northern " soul, recently three off the top of my head examples out of hundreds i have seen recently are: Charles Johnson - Never had a love like this described as a "Northern Classic" - was it really? (i am sure it wasn't), Vise - Baby i love you (played in almost all the modern Southern soul rooms at the time of discovery) and finally Rita Wright - touch me take me described as a "Northern Monster - so NOT Northern its practically South Pole.

 

Long Question: Are ALL (or most) soul records now classed as "Northern" regardless of anything? or because the term "Northern Soul" has become a household name, is it purely devised that not clued up newbie collectors don't/cant differentiate between types of soul and therefore makes it easier to sell a record that has the word "Northern" in it?

I don't like to pigeon hole or anything and defo not a North/South divide thing, just keen on any thoughts/responses.

Thanks for reading  

 

 

So it reaches 100 replies and still you lot can't smell an under-bridge dweller when he rears his head .... 

34 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

So it reaches 100 replies and still you lot can't smell an under-bridge dweller when he rears his head .... 

That is simply NOT true in the slightest!? - It was "meant" to be harmless question, i did not mean to stir up a bees nest   - but you have your opinion which i respect.

On 30/10/2021 at 17:50, Soulsearch said:

I NEVER said it couldn't be?

If anybody re reads my post again PROPERLY that was not my question? In a "nutshell" my question related to when or why did genres become blurred and that the term "Northern Soul" seems to have become a bit overused in the imaginations of some - especially recently. IMO quite a relevant question - obviously not  

If i have obviously written my question that appears to be misunderstood then i apologise. Profusely!!!  

It was NOT an "argument", it was a valid point/question/debate/opinions/views/Whatever.

END END END  

But when people ask a valid question it starts a debate, argument and a voicing of opinions, you wouldn't  expect anything less on a forum would you?

In answer to your question, it became blurred when people started saying it is modern only, or not northern etc and then playing certain records in a separate room and then a separate event rather than everything in the same room like it was before.  Northern Soul has always had music from across the decades, just enjoy it for what it is rather than keep putting records in pigeon holes.

Northern Soul today, I still love the term, it is what I got into many years ago and still into but it has been hijacked by divs, day trippers and bandwagon jumpers.

Edited October 31, 20213 yr by Chalky

10 minutes ago, Chalky said:

But when people ask a valid question it starts a debate, argument and a voicing of opinions, you wouldn't  expect anything less on a form would you?

In answer to your question, it became blurred when people started saying it is modern only, or not northern etc and then playing certain records in a separate room and then a separate event rather than everything in the same room like it was before.  Northern Soul has also had music from across the decades, just enjoy it for what it is rather than keep putting records in pigeon holes.

Northern Soul today, I still love the term, it is what I got into many years ago and still into but it has been hijacked by divs, day trippers and bandwagon jumpers.

Thankyou Chalky, 

Wanted friendly debate and comments like the above, NOT to be accused of being a Troll!!  

Much appreciated  

On 30/10/2021 at 03:34, Steve G said:

Charles Johnson was played as a newish release at Wigan (RS) and was pretty popular at the time throughout the country. Perhaps some of you guys had left the scene by then? 🙃

Also played by Soul Sam at the same venue/time 😎

THE RECORD IS NOW 40 YEARS OLD ,COULD BE CLASSWD AS AN OLDIE BY NOW.

I do recall back in the 70’s at venues, records like Jimmy Mack (MWIOF) and Luther Ingram (both sides) were played alongside Marc Copage, Eighth Avenue Band, etc. At the time I was a little confused but nonetheless embraced what I liked. It was Neil Rushtons “Heart of England” Soul events I think, where, “I presume” his intention was to bring about all factions of the Soul fraternity together 

Edited October 31, 20213 yr by Theothertosspot

On 30/10/2021 at 18:46, Chalky said:

But when people ask a valid question it starts a debate, argument and a voicing of opinions, you wouldn't  expect anything less on a form would you?

In answer to your question, it became blurred when people started saying it is modern only, or not northern etc and then playing certain records in a separate room and then a separate event rather than everything in the same room like it was before.  Northern Soul has always had music from across the decades, just enjoy it for what it is rather than keep putting records in pigeon holes.

Northern Soul today, I still love the term, it is what I got into many years ago and still into but it has been hijacked by divs, day trippers and bandwagon jumpers.

As Billy Joel nearly once said, Hot funk, cool punk, even if it's old junk
It's still Northern Soul to me.

 

I'll get mi long leather..🙄

1 hour ago, Theothertosspot said:

I do recall back in the 70’s at venues, records like Jimmy Mack (MWIOF) and Luther Ingram (both sides) were played alongside Marc Copage, Eighth Avenue Band, etc. At the time I was a little confused but nonetheless embraced what I liked. It was Neil Rushtons “Heart of England” Soul events I think, where, “I presume” his intention was to bring about all factions of the Soul fraternity together 

Yes, my first nighter in Jan 76 (St Ives) I remember The Magic Band- Falbala, Raw Soul-The Gig, EW&F- Biyo, Alpaca Phase III-I like To Party etc etc being played alongside Lou Pride, Yvonne Baker, Pointer Sisters, Rain, Margrett Mandolph, Lynne Vernado etc etc without anyone batting an eyelid. All Northern Soul to me then as now. As I said earlier the music is a backing track to a scene rather than a genre. To be frank I wish it had stayed like that rather than suffering the fall out of the schism between Wigan & Blackpool that seemed to me to be the start of the sub section terms we use today like crossover, modern etc.

YOU NEED THE CROSSOVER BECAUSE WE WOULD ALWAYS BE LIVING IN THE 70S WITH THE SAME OLD CLASSICS

OF THE OLD DAYS.LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE PLAYING SOME £1 RECORDS ARE OFTEN BETTER THAN £100+ RECORDS

17 minutes ago, Mark4767 said:

YOU NEED THE CROSSOVER BECAUSE WE WOULD ALWAYS BE LIVING IN THE 70S WITH THE SAME OLD CLASSICS

OF THE OLD DAYS.LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE PLAYING SOME £1 RECORDS ARE OFTEN BETTER THAN £100+ RECORDS

Interesting point - Some £1.00 records still are!!  

9 hours ago, Soulsearch said:

Interesting point - Some £1.00 records still are!!  

...and still better 🙂

On 29/10/2021 at 16:01, Soulsearch said:

Why "Northern scene" as opposed to "Soul scene" then? "Northern" was always (originally) to differentiate a certain type of music, fast paced, Motown "style" records- is that not the case now then?

It was a Southerner who caused the confussion/identity illusion crisis, when he came up with the word 'Northern'. Because the venues in the north played soul that was obscure, mostly uncharted and honest instrumentation (no electronics or synths). In the south it tended to be monotenous early disco dross. DJs like Levine, Curtis etc (Mecca), then followed by Sam, Searling and others starting to play obscure disco dross often at the exclusion of 60's mainly because of its relative availability (cheap as chips at the time) and appeal to the mass commercial disco going (and radio listening) crowds in the major cities and London.

20 minutes ago, Tai-pan said:

It was a Southerner who caused the confussion/identity illusion crisis, when he came up with the word 'Northern'. Because the venues in the north played soul that was obscure, mostly uncharted and honest instrumentation (no electronics or synths). In the south it tended to be monotenous early disco dross. DJs like Levine, Curtis etc (Mecca), then followed by Sam, Searling and others starting to play obscure disco dross often at the exclusion of 60's mainly because of its relative availability (cheap as chips at the time) and appeal to the mass commercial disco going (and radio listening) crowds in the major cities and London.

Tai-pan, true and then the North brought in quality tunes like Joe90!!!!   So are you supporting the original question from the thread? 

Tongue in cheek 🤣🤣🤣

GOSH, thank you all (or most  ) Girls and Guys  , I am hoping this This thread doesn't go on forever, was intended to give me some facts, a bit of "friendly" banter, yes tongue and cheek comments and of course opinions.

OK, so "to me" from what i gather NS was originally a specific sound/record. From what i am reading NS is now an "umbrella" term for Northern/Crossover etc regardless of sound and covers a multitude of different records over a long period.

I am "hoping" the thread doesn't go on forever, but "flipping the question" a little then are there any records considered as "pure" Modern Soul spins? - or shall i just stop here?

PS My "small" collection does encompass all "soul" yes even some Jazz Funk, so my question is purely for interest and certainly not to pigeon hole my records so please don't ask me just to listen to the music and enjoy the music regardless, because i do that anyway   

Thanks again  

10 minutes ago, Soulsearch said:

GOSH, thank you all (or most  ) Girls and Guys  , I am hoping this This thread doesn't go on forever, was intended to give me some facts, a bit of "friendly" banter, yes tongue and cheek comments and of course opinions.

 

Ok looking like the topic is reaching a natural end, as we now have various discussion branches shooting off and some points being repeated.

So do suggest that any further related or similar discussion be done via new topics with relevant titles

Will close this topic very shortly

2 minutes ago, Source said:

Ok looking like the topic is reaching a natural end, as we now have various discussion branches shooting off and some points being repeated.

So do suggest that any further related or similar discussion be done via new topics with relevant titles

Will close this topic very shortly

Yes, probably right  

Thankyou

52 minutes ago, Source said:

Ok looking like the topic is reaching a natural end, as we now have various discussion branches shooting off and some points being repeated.

So do suggest that any further related or similar discussion be done via new topics with relevant titles

Will close this topic very shortly

👍