Colin Curtis - Too much to Swallow.

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Well written, i enjoyed reading it, but i don't really understand the need to defend the format of your choice, i prefer the collecting side of soul music via original vinyl records but i also buy CDs. Without getting into the depths of the soul music scene and it's well documented relationship with the vinyl record (its been covered dozens of time on this forum, and i'm not bothered to repeat personal view etc ).But the bottom line is how ever you choose to listen to your music then that is the correct way for you, if others take a different path then so be it.

But why the frustration at the record fans ?, it is part and parcel of the soul scene whether you like it or not.

well constructed article about the BEST northern/jazz/funk jock ever

in my humble opinion.

years ahead of his time

alex

Brett, the above may have been prompted by the 'attacks' on CC that took place on here after he DJ'ed a '70's club' revival night & didn't play OVO (or even any vinyl at all hardly).

I'm with you entirely, if you want to transcribe your collection onto CD-R & play those out, then everything's just fine.

There are those (especially on here) though that will only accept OVO being played at all do's (& it's impossible to play OVO at a Modern Soul night as lots of the top sounds have never been released on vinyl).

Brett, the above may have been prompted by the 'attacks' on CC that took place on here after he DJ'ed a '70's club' revival night & didn't play OVO (or even any vinyl at all hardly).

I'm with you entirely, if you want to transcribe your collection onto CD-R & play those out, then everything's just fine.

There are those (especially on here) though that will only accept OVO being played at all do's (& it's impossible to play OVO at a Modern Soul night as lots of the top sounds have never been released on vinyl).

Agreed i thought the article was well put together etc, just this strange need to publicly justify the way you choose to listen to music for personal reasons, just was odd, but fair enough, as for the night mentioned i wasn't there so i have no opinion, i recently saw Colin Curtis in Manchester and he was superb, it was full on modern and i thoroughly enjoyed the music.

colin curtis in my eyes is the ultimate dj ,since the first time at the mecca back in the day , and upto vybe ,still like to listen to his sets , as for playing the wrong things , some people need to take on board different things and stop living in a time warp , in my visits to many venues it seems to be a certain amount of people who have just been listening to the same old same old , progress the soul scene is a big world , make a different journey every now and again , its amazing what you find ????

philly07 (carlo)

considering who his former d.j'ing partner was, i really think you should change the title of this thread

Brett, the above may have been prompted by the 'attacks' on CC that took place on here after he DJ'ed a '70's club' revival night & didn't play OVO (or even any vinyl at all hardly).

I'm with you entirely, if you want to transcribe your collection onto CD-R & play those out, then everything's just fine.

There are those (especially on here) though that will only accept OVO being played at all do's (& it's impossible to play OVO at a Modern Soul night as lots of the top sounds have never been released on vinyl).

I too have no issue with collections being transcribed to CD-R or laptops IF and its a big IF the DJ has the license and right to do so. Fo me it's about the legitimacy of what they play rather than the format.

I have no idea if Colin has a ProDub license but people worried about this can do a simple check on-line.

I doubt anyone with OVO concerns are being so literal that they object to sounds that originally came out on CD being played from CD but maybe I'm wrong.

Colin did get 'slated' (mainly on here) for daring to DJ at a 70's club revival night and playing off of CD (maybe even CD-R).

Most (all ?) Modern Soul DJ's have to play off CD-R as they feature numerous 'down-load' only tracks & these have to be played off CD-R at a soul do. Surely if you have bought a down-load track you are allowed to copy it onto CD without obtaining a special license ? (I always do to ensure I don-t 'loose' the track if my laptop 'crashes').

Colin did get 'slated' (mainly on here) for daring to DJ at a 70's club revival night and playing off of CD (maybe even CD-R).

Most (all ?) Modern Soul DJ's have to play off CD-R as they feature numerous 'down-load' only tracks & these have to be played off CD-R at a soul do. Surely if you have bought a down-load track you are allowed to copy it onto CD without obtaining a special license ? (I always do to ensure I don-t 'loose' the track if my laptop 'crashes').

Not in the UK if your using it for DJing purposes.

https://www.prsformusic.com/users/recordedmedia/ProDub/Pages/produbcust.aspx

I too have no issue with collections being transcribed to CD-R or laptops IF and its a big IF the DJ has the license and right to do so. Fo me it's about the legitimacy of what they play rather than the format.

I have no idea if Colin has a ProDub license but people worried about this can do a simple check on-line.

I doubt anyone with OVO concerns are being so literal that they object to sounds that originally came out on CD being played from CD but maybe I'm wrong.

No issue on that point Ged. However, the title of the thread is a reference to a soul night at the Swallow Hotel in Gateshead (not the implication of a sexual act ... thanks for the image though Trev!) where Colin Curtis was the top guest DJ a couple of weekends ago.

The complaints referred to are those from people who were unhappy at Colin playing an hour and a half set of oldies from CDs. The CD decks had been specially provided at the venue, that one night, to enable him to do this; therefore it was an unusual and (for many) a surprising occurrence.

Even more frustrating (and seemingly somewhat lacking in integrity, some may think) was the fact that on that very night the other DJs - particularly the other guest DJ who played only original vinyl, and was excellent - had with them the authentic records of practically every tune Colin played from CD.

Hence the complaints; and, presumably, why the topic-starter felt they wanted to mount a thread dedicated to the defence of Colin playing oldies at northern soul nights from CDs.

considering who his former d.j'ing partner was, i really think you should change the title of this thread

Bloody hell ! you learn summert new every day

No issue on that point Ged. However, the title of the thread is a reference to a soul night at the Swallow Hotel in Gateshead (not the implication of a sexual act ... thanks for the image though Trev!) where Colin Curtis was the top guest DJ a couple of weekends ago.

The complaints referred to are those from people who were unhappy at Colin playing an hour and a half set of oldies from CDs. The CD decks had been specially provided at the venue, that one night, to enable him to do this; therefore it was an unusual and (for many) a surprising occurrence.

Even more frustrating (and seemingly somewhat lacking in integrity, some may think) was the fact that on that very night the other DJs - particularly the other guest DJ who played only original vinyl, and was excellent - had with them the authentic records of practically every tune Colin played from CD.

Hence the complaints; and, presumably, why the topic-starter felt they wanted to mount a thread dedicated to the defence of Colin playing oldies at northern soul nights from CDs.

I both know and realise all of that but thanks for pointing it out.

Haven't we already done this thread though? I don't want to spoil the ending for anyone, but it turns out, Colin is the only DJ allowed to play classic northern from CDs, because of his standing on the scene from his early days.

Personally it wouldn't worry me much one way or the other at a soul night, I go to dance, and I'm not going to trek up to the decks each time, to make sure it's vinyl, and most times wouldn't know if it was original or not anyway.

Yes, aparrently some of the 'big' DJs who were famous for, and made their reputations by, playing original vinyl in the 1970s seem to retain their credibility by reversing the philosophy and playing CDs of those same records today.

Others do it on Casino Classics 45s.

Yet others play Pye Disco Demands.

And, of course, there are those who can't resist their old favourite - out-and-out bootlegs.

Nice!

My favourite Dj and always will be ! From the days of the Mecca and the Jazz-funk days of Rafters (aka Fagins manchester) Colin as stated before as always been a head of the scene and always had... and still has got his finger on the pulse of what ever genre of soul music he's playin !! ( mainly modern now) He's a Top Dj and does'nt deserve critiscm from anyone for what he has put into the soul scene on that merit alone !! Carry On Colin and Keep on Doin what your Doin !!

Ohhh dear ...I am getting sooo bored of the constant hype of the past and it's personalities!!!

I was never star struck and although respect were respect is due I rather hear a nobody play a great diverse cheap original format set then somebody play blalalalala...and living of his past !!!!

Each to their own but as for art everyone can have a lovely print of picasso or a local artist displayed at home but it would be rather odd to have a cheap copy at a gallery

The whole debate is mindnumbingly boring......

Colin isn't on the rare soul scene, nor is he on the northern scene. He is a modern soul DJ where, dear friends, it doesn't matter whether you play a tune off of vinyl, CD, i-phone or memory stick. He was on the northern scene over 35 years ago now. What is he supposed to have done? Kept all his old records in a cupboard specially for the odd occasion like this?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Move along there is nothing to see here.

The whole debate is mindnumbingly boring......

Colin isn't on the rare soul scene, nor is he on the northern scene. He is a modern soul DJ where, dear friends, it doesn't matter whether you play a tune off of vinyl, CD, i-phone or memory stick. He was on the northern scene over 35 years ago now. What is he supposed to have done? Kept all his old records in a cupboard specially for the odd occasion like this?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Move along there is nothing to see here.

Maybe Modern Soul dj's should now be known as CDDJ's? After all DJ stands for DISC Jockey.

Then there'd be no confusion.

Yup but much of it ain't even on CD Pete. "Turntable terrorists" suits me

Yup but much of it ain't even on CD Pete. "Turntable terrorists" suits me

What about MSJ's - Memory Stick Jockeys

Maybe Modern Soul dj's should now be known as CDDJ's? After all DJ stands for DISC Jockey.

Then there'd be no confusion.

but the 'D' in CD also stands for Disk. Mind you CDJ as in Compact Disk Jockey does make it sound like eveyone is the size of me Johnny Weston or Little Scotty

Losing the will to live Part2.

but the 'D' in CD also stands for Disk. Mind you CDJ as in Compact Disk Jockey does make it sound like eveyone is the size of me Johnny Weston or Little Scotty

Ged i think i'll try caling my mate Rob Gray a CDJ but i think it would be safer saying it down the phone!......

As for the rest of the reply's about Colin & his CD's i can only say "Keep Calm and Carry On"

Steve J

Ohhh dear ...I am getting sooo bored of the constant hype of OVO DJ's & their personalities!!!

I was never star struck and although I respect CC's past exploits in the Strange World of NS, I'd rather hear him play a great jazz or Modern Soul format set than somebody play a rare soul 45 set on OVO.

Ohhh dear ...I am getting sooo bored of the constant hype of OVO DJ's & their personalities!!!

I was never star struck and although I respect CC's past exploits in the Strange World of NS, I'd rather hear him play a great jazz or Modern Soul format set than somebody play a rare soul 45 set on OVO.

I'd rather hear my little boy farting in the bath than listen to a great jazz or modern soul set so it works both ways...what on earth is wrong with someone playing a rare soul set off original 45's, that is what the scene is built on!

There's certainly no compulsion for anyone to keep all of their northern soul records. Likewise there's no compulsion for anyone who has got rid of all those records to DJ at a northern soul event.

I know of some former top DJs, having sold their collections, who when still occasionally asked to DJ will turn the gig down on the basis that they no longer have the records.

There are many of us, when guesting at a dedicated northern soul night, who would never even contemplate using some other format to play a record which we USED to own. Let alone one which we never had in the first place.

what on earth is wrong with a 'legend' who has moved on, playing an oldies soul set off any format.

It was CC that helped build the scene & if he gets asked back for a club revival night (playing stuff he would no longer play in his current sets), then he should be able to play em off owt without people trying to have him hung for doing so.

BTW, no minds will be changed by going over this 'played out' forever re-hashed topic ....

... so every post after the initial one is just a waste of time really.

I'm sure CC will not lose one seconds sleep or peace even if every Soul Source member voted for him to be burnt at the stake.

what on earth is wrong with a 'legend' who has moved on, playing an oldies soul set off any format.

It was CC that helped build the scene & if he gets asked back for a club revival night (playing stuff he would no longer play in his current sets), then he should be able to play em off owt without people trying to have him hung for doing so.

There's a lot of "legends" made come backs over the last 15 years, Ian Levine, John Vincent two name two, would they ever dream of playing off cd's because their "legendary status" gives them a free pass of some sort? Of course they wouldn't. What's the point of booking anyone playing Northern oldies off cd's, at least go to the effort of borrowing the records off someone else.

I'm just thinking about the playlist if it were to be put up.

Track 7 and 8 ''Wigpool Camecca classics''

Track 15 ''Up all night''

Track 2 ''asleep at the wheel''

Track 98 ''K Tel's northern soul story as told by Russ, Win and Stanley''

etc etc

There's a lot of "legends" made come backs over the last 15 years, Ian Levine, John Vincent two name two, would they ever dream of playing off cd's because their "legendary status" gives them a free pass of some sort? Of course they wouldn't. What's the point of booking anyone playing Northern oldies off cd's, at least go to the effort of borrowing the records off someone else.

The difference is Colin is not making a comeback on the northern / rare scene. He just does an odd revival gig, very different IMHO. He's not out to prove anything, he's a modern soul DJ. Vincent's had more comabacks than a boomerang

I'd rather hear him play a great jazz or Modern Soul format set than somebody play a rare soul 45 set on OVO.

Roburt why would that be? Do you not like rare / northern soul?

Ohhh dear ...I am getting sooo bored of the constant hype of OVO DJ's & their personalities!!!

I was never star struck and although I respect CC's past exploits in the Strange World of NS, I'd rather hear him play a great jazz or Modern Soul format set than somebody play a rare soul 45 set on OVO.

stop remixing & bootlegging my words jazzy ....original format for any style of music appreciation society for some ...don't give a flying monkey supporters club for others....

I hope in years to come I can still ....eat cheddar made in Sommerset, drive a german car made in Germany, have a bottle of champagne from france ..... go to a gallery and admire real works of art ... and even listen to a jazz or modern dj still caring about the original format and not being a lazy old fart

I was gong to try and keep out of this but never mind, I am the promoter of The Swallow in Gateshead and I knew before booking Colin what format he would be playing from, when I first booked Colin it took him some persuding to do so because of that issue, so why persevere to book him

The night is an nostagia night and for many years people up here have had to travel hundreds of mile to get to venue and listen to 'Big Name' DJ's, and others, some people for what ever reason cannot travel any more, and it was those who made me change my direction of booking DJ's approx a year ago, people mentioned to me 'It would be great to see Colin Curtis up here' or 'When was the last time Colin Curtis was up here' and that applied to the others i have booked Kev Roberts, Chris King ,Carl & Maria Richard Searling etc etc etc

The night is a nostagia night 5 times a year not a progressive ( done it got the t-shirts) and it 's working well people are well chuffed ( so they tell me) and the dance floor is rammed all night with all the DJ's I put on.

I was and only have been spoken to by one person who did not like Colin playing CD's and i respect thier point of view, ow I hear there were loads complaining, well if they were they never said it to me, in fact it was the opposite the amount of people who asked me to get Colin back was a hell of lot more than one , he had the dance floor rocking.

At the end of the day to me am too old to fight about what format the music is played on just enjoy ( or not) the night and the choons we love or hate

All the best

Paul Conroy

Some people are just sh*t scared to tell the truth.....originaal format or dont bother to DJ, I dont care who the f*ck is DJing.

Everything that I ever held dear about this wonderful scene is being eroded, not only that, when you state the obvious you'll beaten into submission by an endless stream of folk defending why apparently its now fine, for some to commit herasy because theyre considered royalty.

You can come on SS/FB/ & any type of media social network you can name & defend this practice until you are blue in the face....you are all fakes who have forgotten what this is all about.

I dont really give a f*ck, I would rather stick pins in my own eyes than pandy to this watered down, sad imitation of an excuse for a rare soul scene....now some will be, calm down, whats the problem, we've done this before blah, blah, blah....but I for one will not let the 'divs' n fakers get away withit......nothing anyone can say or do will make this right within the context of the rare soul scene & I refuse to give in or shut up about it, its what they want.....

Dont give up the dream & do not except anything other than the real deal....we may now be in the minority, but we are in the right & we have right on our side.....even tho on other forums you'll get the snide comments & the ones that will s*ck any old DJ's c*ck just cos they heard em play a great set 35 years ago in some god forsaken Northern town or city....if you aint got the gear dont except the gig......not only that avoid the places that except this fakery, you dont have to except it & you are right not to except....dont be brow beaten into thinking this is right, stand up & demand your right to be given the original format not a cheap immitation....

Russ

RE: Roburt why would that be? Do you not like rare / northern soul?

Steve,

Got into soul via Motown, Otis R, Sam & Dave tracks back in 1965-ish .... my 'initial run' allniter days were all pre-NS era. Always just been a soul fan (plus gospel, & some jazz & blues); never a NS fan. Can't stand many of Wigan era plays. Moved over to the 'dark side' (MS) about 30 years back but still kept many of my old 60' dancers. At a 2 room event (NS / MS), haven't done more than check out the NS room in over 20 years .... but like to watch any soul singer perform live.

Given the choice at home, will always put on Impressions, Masqueraders, Billy Stewart, Philly Int, Curtis, Marvin, EW&F, LVD, David Oliver or Luther Ingram (Ko-Ko & later) rather than any NS track that isn't etched into my heart from Mojo / Wheel days.

So no; I will take a classy 'cheap as chips' track that features strong soul vocals & a classy backing (brass, strings, etc) from any era over a rare as hens-teeth 60's soul dancer any day.

Nor many 'new' great soul singers about these days but there are some Y2K tracks that do have the 'old soul magic' .... hope that there will be many more as I still get a buzz off hearing a new track that oozes soul.

Some people are just sh*t scared to tell the truth.....

Russ

Now then Russ you know that isn't true of me. If i think it's wrong `i'll say so.

The scene you shout for is gone mate. It's all weekender anthems and Tobi Legend memories. Anything else is now a minority sport. ATB Steve

Some people are just sh*t scared to tell the truth.....originaal format or dont bother to DJ, I dont care who the f*ck is DJing.

Everything that I ever held dear about this wonderful scene is being eroded, not only that, when you state the obvious you'll beaten into submission by an endless stream of folk defending why apparently its now fine, for some to commit herasy because theyre considered royalty.

You can come on SS/FB/ & any type of media social network you can name & defend this practice until you are blue in the face....you are all fakes who have forgotten what this is all about.

I dont really give a f*ck, I would rather stick pins in my own eyes than pandy to this watered down, sad imitation of an excuse for a rare soul scene....now some will be, calm down, whats the problem, we've done this before blah, blah, blah....but I for one will not let the 'divs' n fakers get away withit......nothing anyone can say or do will make this right within the context of the rare soul scene & I refuse to give in or shut up about it, its what they want.....

Dont give up the dream & do not except anything other than the real deal....we may now be in the minority, but we are in the right & we have right on our side.....even tho on other forums you'll get the snide comments & the ones that will s*ck any old DJ's c*ck just cos they heard em play a great set 35 years ago in some god forsaken Northern town or city....if you aint got the gear dont except the gig......not only that avoid the places that except this fakery, you dont have to except it & you are right not to except....dont be brow beaten into thinking this is right, stand up & demand your right to be given the original format not a cheap immitation....

Russ

What a drama queen!!!

RE: Roburt why would that be? Do you not like rare / northern soul?

Steve,

Got into soul via Motown, Otis R, Sam & Dave tracks back in 1965-ish .... my 'initial run' allniter days were all pre-NS era. Always just been a soul fan (plus gospel, & some jazz & blues); never a NS fan. Can't stand many of Wigan era plays. Moved over to the 'dark side' (MS) about 30 years back but still kept many of my old 60' dancers. At a 2 room event (NS / MS), haven't done more than check out the NS room in over 20 years .... but like to watch any soul singer perform live.

Given the choice at home, will always put on Impressions, Masqueraders, Billy Stewart, Philly Int, Curtis, Marvin, EW&F, LVD, David Oliver or Luther Ingram (Ko-Ko & later) rather than any NS track that isn't etched into my heart from Mojo / Wheel days.

So no; I will take a classy 'cheap as chips' track that features strong soul vocals & a classy backing (brass, strings, etc) from any era over a rare as hens-teeth 60's soul dancer any day.

Nor many 'new' great soul singers about these days but there are some Y2K tracks that do have the 'old soul magic' .... hope that there will be many more as I still get a buzz off hearing a new track that oozes soul.

Ok understand what you are saying Roburt, but you are being too judgmental there are some fantastic rare as hens teeth 60s records, slo don't deny yourself the experience in the name of Otis Redding et al man. `

RE: there are some fantastic rare as hens teeth 60s records

... Can't argue with you there, Steve ...

" I Just Can't Speak" ain't mega rare but it is an exceptionally good rare soul dancer.

Just that I mainly value a track for it's soul content & not its rarity (hence my liking for Jimmy Bo H).

There are some great 60's rare soul dance tracks, but I have little interest in em (apart from getting em on CD).

I'd rather have 10 to 20 fantastic deep soul sides to play at home than one 'trophy' rare soul dancer (& the cost would be about the same for both).

Can't he borrow a collection of records for these odd revival gigs..Im sure we can all lend him a few to avoid this second thread on Colin Curtis playing CD's....

Not even sure borrowing should be a necessary part of the equation.

With a reputed DJ fee in the region of around £400, would it really be such a hardship to buy, keep hold of, and carry original copies of such Mecca-type items as Voices Of East Harlem, Eloise Laws, Gil Scott-Heron and Carstairs for such occasions?

Just a typical snapshot of CC's tunes played at the Swallow.

I always thought watching the dj pulling out records......cueing up.....chinwagging about labels....current prices....pressings....unreleased stuff....acetates ....pulling a record off because you changed your mind....quickly having to pull another out....flicking through the box for requests...swapping and selling was what it was about.CDs from Asda....when did that come into the equation?

There are also numerous RARE Cd's you know .... ones that only a few copies were made of & they have to be sourced from specialist dealers ... you can't get every CD from Asda's.

Back when I was doing most of my buying (building up my collection in the 60's & 70's), I got loads of my stuff from Woolies (they bought in huge numbers of deleted EMI LP stock -- Motown, Stateside, etc + Stax stuff), W H Smiths, Co-op, Boots (every major Boots store had a good Record Dept). I always bought UK release as my preference back then but you could easily get cut-out US stuff at shops such as the UK arm of 'Radio Shack' (was it called Tandys). Walked into the Hull branch of that store (to buy some electronic bits) & there was a rack full of Atco LP's (dozens of copies of Darrell Bank's albums -- course I only bought a couple of copies of em both) for about 20p each.

In the 1980's Nottinghamshire discount store Fords (a branch in every town) had 1000's of US soul LP's at 19p each. Record store chains like Fox's (Dony) had permanent import cut-out LP racks (all as cheap as chips), Bradford market had 1000's of US soul 45's at give-away prices.

So the 'if you can buy CD's at Asada' argument just doesn't stack up.

There are also numerous RARE Cd's you know .... ones that only a few copies were made of & they have to be sourced from specialist dealers ... you can't get every CD from Asda's.

Back when I was doing most of my buying (building up my collection in the 60's & 70's), I got loads of my stuff from Woolies (they bought in huge numbers of deleted EMI LP stock -- Motown, Stateside, etc + Stax stuff), W H Smiths, Co-op, Boots (every major Boots store had a good Record Dept). I always bought UK release as my preference back then but you could easily get cut-out US stuff at shops such as the UK arm of 'Radio Shack' (was it called Tandys). Walked into the Hull branch of that store (to buy some electronic bits) & there was a rack full of Atco LP's (dozens of copies of Darrell Bank's albums -- course I only bought a couple of copies of em both) for about 20p each.

In the 1980's Nottinghamshire discount store Fords (a branch in every town) had 1000's of US soul LP's at 19p each. Record store chains like Fox's (Dony) had permanent import cut-out LP racks (all as cheap as chips), Bradford market had 1000's of US soul 45's at give-away prices.

So the 'if you can buy CD's at Asada' argument just doesn't stack up.

What? so its ok to play cd's if they're rare?

If you haven't got the records don't pretend to be a DJ (not aimed at CC )

If you haven't got the records don't pretend to be a DJ

Colin "pretending" to be a DJ - now that IS one of the funniest things I have ever read here Steve.

Colin "pretending" to be a DJ - now that IS one of the funniest things I have ever read here Steve.

Yeah I wasn't really aiming it at CC Steve, just talking in general and in reaction to the cd comment!

Actually, I think Steve L is correct.

Colin Curtis may have once been a great and innovative northern soul DJ.

He may be a great modern soul DJ.

He may have fantastic knowledge of the subject and rather good musical taste.

BUT, without the records, he is no longer an authentic northern soul DJ at a dedicated northern soul event. Particularly one where other DJs do in fact have the records in their boxes.

And let's face it, reiterating post 43, it wouldn't be so onerous a task to actually obtain the records which Colin played at the Swallow would it?

It's a soul night FFS, one that caters for the local crowd, Colin was/would have been a draw, if there wasn't a massive amount of complaints by the punters there, why is it being debated here (again) does it matter that much?

It's a soul night FFS, one that caters for the local crowd, Colin was/would have been a draw, if there wasn't a massive amount of complaints by the punters there, why is it being debated here (again) does it matter that much?

No!