It Brings Tears To Your Eyes

[paultp]

Why can't some (mainly US based - there I've said it) record dealers pack records properly?

This arrived this morning in a thin LP mailer with no cardboard stiffeners, the 45 was sellotaped to the centre of the inside of the mailer. It wasn't marked Fragile or anything.

Notice the 1 inch crack top left, not hairline but clean through.

I know it has happened to most people, I've had them turn up in f***ing envelopes before, but it always makes me feel sick to the stomach when I see damage like this which could have been avoided.

Another tune made that bit rarer.

Cheers

Paul

Edited May 12, 2006 by paultp

[sepia]

i just got a 45 fae the states today,havnt opened it yet.in a jiffy bag with what feels like a wee bit of bubble rap round it.no stiffeners or nothing.

[Steve G]

Why can't some (mainly US based - there I've said it) record dealers pack records properly?

This arrived this morning in a thin LP mailer with no cardboard stiffeners, the 45 was sellotaped to the centre of the inside of the mailer. It wasn't marked Fragile or anything.

Notice the 1 inch crack top left, not hairline but clean through.

I know it has happened to most people, I've had them turn up in f***ing envelopes before, but it always makes me feel sick to the stomach when I see damage like this which could have been avoided.

Another tune made that bit rarer.

Cheers

Paul

Paul

Tell the guy you want a full refund due to inadequate packing. Leave negative feedback if he doesn't agree - complain to ebay - stir it up and give him some welly. Why do we Brits suffer in silence at such b*llock service.

[Larsc]

I got a record that had cracked all the way through due to using cardboard mailer with no stiffeners. I sent the seller a picture of the cracked record telling him it was a good example of what happens when not using stiffeners. The refund arrived before I got home from work. And I was a happy customer.

The seller had left me positive feedback when shipping so I had nothing to fear but still left him positive feedback for being a trustworthy seller.

Gotta find a new copy of that record though Luckily it's not too rare.

[Guest Netspeaky]

All I can say is you must be buying records of sellers with little or no feedback, use a little common sense, ask them to pack it properly if you haven't dealt with them previously. If it's someone new to selling VINYL records (Someone young) then they don't know how easy it it's for damage to occur. Use Feedback correctly they will soon get the message.

[Val (Chunky)]

I've just received quite a rare record from Peru that just arrived in a paper sleeve in a jiffy bag...no cardboard at all.....it did arrive safely...amazingly!

[paultp]

All I can say is you must be buying records of sellers with little or no feedback, use a little common sense, ask them to pack it properly if you haven't dealt with them previously. If it's someone new to selling VINYL records (Someone young) then they don't know how easy it it's for damage to occur. Use Feedback correctly they will soon get the message.

Afraid this is a regular record dealer with over 600 feedback.

I'm sure I'll get a refund but that's just money isn't it? I doubt I'll get the record again for the price I paid him. Won't name and shame yet as I've yet to hear back from him.

I was just sounding off because damage to records is easily avoided and not costly to achieve, but is the needless damage that annoys me rather than whether I'll get a refund.

The record actually plays once I'd eased the cracked part back together again and doesn't click much. But I'd bought it to sell on so its not much good at all now.

Hey ho

[45cellar]

I had a similar experience, although luckily no damage.

I bought a copy of "(AT THE) DISCOTHEQUE" on Parkway from the states - very poor scan

It arrived in an old LP Cover and envelope, just floating around the cover.

When opened it turned out to be the rarer "(DO THE) DISCOTHEQUE" on Styrene

How it survived was amazing.

[paultp]

I had a similar experience, although luckily no damage.

I bought a copy of "(AT THE) DISCOTHEQUE" on Parkway from the states - very poor scan

It arrived in an old LP Cover and envelope, just floating around the cover.

When opened it turned out to be the rarer "(DO THE) DISCOTHEQUE" on Styrene

How it survived was amazing.

Others I've had are:

Lou Jouhnson - Unsatisfied - Envelope - Snapped clean in half

Don Gardner - Baby Likes To Boogaloo - Jiffy bag plus bubble wrap - Snapped in half

Sam Fletcher - I'd Think It Over - Envelope and clear plastic sleeve - Perfect

I still don't understand the thought processes of someone who puts an obviously fragile item in an envelope and sends it across two continents and an Ocean (sea?) via two less than gentle postal handling services and expects it to arrive unscathed.

I'm getting angry again so I'm off to calm down.

Edited May 12, 2006 by paultp

[Larsc]

I still don't understand the thought processes of someone who puts an obviously fragile item in an envelope and sends it across two continents and an Ocean (sea?) via two less than gentle postal handling services and expects it to arrive unscathed.

How about a stack of 25 records with no sleeves only wrapped carelessly in bubbleplastic and put in a big box. And then carefully transported across the atlantic by the trusted postal service.

[paultp]

So I explained to the seller what happened, questioned the lack of stiffeners, lack of "Fragile" and "Do Not Bend" markings and also queried the use of a 12" mailer and asked what they suggest should happen next.

His reply:

"I would suggest writing the mail and asking why they would be bending a BOX in HALF. We've never had this happen before and we certainly didn't write PLEASE BEND on the package. It's implied that it shouldn't be bent, a presume."

I Don't think a refund will be forthcoming actually. Have replied and said I consider a thin 12" mailer inadequate, will wait for a further reply before doing the neg feedback thing.I wish I'd been more dishonest and claimed it had never arrived, I could have got a refund from PayPal. CheersPaul

Edited May 12, 2006 by paultp

[Steve G]

I could have got a refund from PayPal. CheersPaul

How does this work then? - I've got one that's gone AWOL from a reputable seller. I have no doubt he sent it but it hasn't arrived.

[Guest]

How does this work then? - I've got one that's gone AWOL from a reputable seller. I have no doubt he sent it but it hasn't arrived.

First contact dealer and find out when it got sent etc. Let him know what you're gonna do, and that you'll pay him again if it does turn up.

Then when a decent amount of time has elapsed - but no later than a couple of months - log onto paypal, and find the original transaction, and I think you can ask for a full refund from there. Have only done it once but it was really easy.

[paultp]

How does this work then? - I've got one that's gone AWOL from a reputable seller. I have no doubt he sent it but it hasn't arrived.

They have a buyer protection policy, you can claim a refund if stuff doesn't arrive and you paid using PayPal, paypal take the money back off the seller. (Look for Buyer Protection" on the help part of www.paypal.com) You need to do it within 45 days of the auction.

It has led to people insisting on some form of recorded delivery if you pay by PayPal cos if someone claims a refund PayPal ask the seller for proof of delivery, if the seller hasn't got it they lose the money. A few people have been ripped off by people claiming a record hasn't arrived when it has and getting a refund this way.

BTW the seller of my item is hydeparkrecords! and the item is:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ADME:B:AAQ:US:1

Cheers Paul

Edited June 13, 2006 by paultp

[Guest]

They have a buyer protection policy, you can claim a refund if stuff doesn't arrive and you paid using PayPal, paypal take the money back off the seller. (Look for Buyer Protection" on the help part of www.paypal.com) You need to do it within 45 days of the auction.

It has led to people insisting on some form of recorded delivery if you pay by PayPal cos if someone claims a refund PayPal ask the seller for proof of delivery, if the seller hasn't got it they lose the money. A few people have been ripped off by people claiming a record hasn't arrived when it has and getting a refund this way.

BTW the seller of my item is hydeparkrecords and the item is:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ADME:B:AAQ:US:1

Cheers Paul

Paul, if the seller doesn't offer you a refund, then I'm pretty sure that you can claim through paypal in the same way.

[Steve G]

They have a buyer protection policy, you can claim a refund if stuff doesn't arrive and you paid using PayPal, paypal take the money back off the seller. (Look for Buyer Protection" on the help part of www.paypal.com) You need to do it within 45 days of the auction.

It has led to people insisting on some form of recorded delivery if you pay by PayPal cos if someone claims a refund PayPal ask the seller for proof of delivery, if the seller hasn't got it they lose the money. A few people have been ripped off by people claiming a record hasn't arrived when it has and getting a refund this way.

BTW the seller of my item is hydeparkrecords and the item is:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ADME:B:AAQ:US:1

Cheers Paul

Thanks. As for yours the seller said he'd use a heavy duty corrugated LP shipper - doesn't sound like he did?

[Guest]

I once received a dozen 45's from the good old USA wrapped only in crepe paper and secured with gaffer tape. Instead of using their own postal service, they appeared to have been fired out of a circus canon, landing somewhere outside of Doncaster, whereupon the UK Royal Mail team then physically kicked them all the way to my home address and then proceeded to employ the help of an Indian elephant to finally ram them through my letterbox.

God Bless America........

[pikeys dog]

I once received a dozen 45's from the good old USA wrapped only in crepe paper and secured with gaffer tape. Instead of using their own postal service, they appeared to have been fired out of a circus canon, landing somewhere outside of Doncaster, whereupon the UK Royal Mail team then physically kicked them all the way to my home address and then proceeded to employ the help of an Indian elephant to finally ram them through my letterbox.

God Bless America........

Welcome back Brett,

Sat here p.m.s.l.

[vnicepce]

All these experiences put people off this trade; two positive experiences:

Dusty Groove America; they always use Cardboard Record Mailers, and Polystyrene, inside, to protect the goods.

Parker Records and Comics; Brilliant man-I ordered a load of 45s from him-came well packed as above...

..Is there any way we can 'mark up' the bodgers, so no-one else has the experiences detailed in this topic?

[Larsc]

BTW the seller of my item is hydeparkrecords and the item is:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ADME:B:AAQ:US:1

Cheers Paul

Thanks for naming the seller. I won't be buying anything from him.

[Cunnie]

I once received a dozen 45's from the good old USA wrapped only in crepe paper and secured with gaffer tape. Instead of using their own postal service, they appeared to have been fired out of a circus canon, landing somewhere outside of Doncaster, whereupon the UK Royal Mail team then physically kicked them all the way to my home address and then proceeded to employ the help of an Indian elephant to finally ram them through my letterbox.

God Bless America........

A familiar tale of cross Channel postal inadequacies told in fine style by Mr Franklin.

The crepe paper, the circus cannon & the local Royal Mail football practice is something we are all familiar with but then your fine tale comes a little unstuck Brett.

The more observant members of this site must surely have noticed that the Royal Mail would never and has never employed an Indian elephant as they are far too intelligent and would never try to ram a 7" wide parcel through a 6 1/2" wide letterbox.

Only an African elephant would embark on such foolishness.

Your'e nothing but a fraudster Franklin, a fraudster ya hear...

[Guest For Real]

I won the Carstairs on Red Coach on Ebay from someone in the UK. Beautiful copy, but packed in an evelope with just a bit of bubble rap. Arrived with a massive crack...

Only record I've ever had a problem with. Divine justice, perhaps?

Mark

[paultp]

I wonder if anyone here can help me, I have a PayPal dispute ongoing regarding the damage done to the Jimmy Burns record (see first post).

Paypal have requested the following documentation:

"In order to continue with the investigation of your claim, we must request documentation to support your claim that the item is damaged or significantly not as described. Please obtain a document (such as an estimate or invoice) from an unbiased third-party, such as a dealer; repair shop, appraiser, or another individual or organisation that is qualified in the area of the item in question (other than yourself), which details the extent of the damage or clearly explains how the item received significantly differs from the item advertised. Please do not proceed with any repairs or alterations to the item, as doing so will limit PayPals ability to successfully resolve your claim, and may result in the cancellation of your dispute. If possible, the document should include a serial number and description of the item, and the amount required to complete the repairs necessary to correct the damage. This document must be on letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of the individual, business, or organisation so that PayPal may contact them if necessary."

I have put up a scan of the damaged record here and can also put up a picture of the packaging used.

Can anyone furnish me with a document similar to that asked for by PayPal? It has to be faxed to them within 10 days. I'll reimburse any costs.

Thanks

Paul

Edited June 8, 2006 by paultp

[Guest NASHEE]

All these experiences put people off this trade; two positive experiences:

Dusty Groove America; they always use Cardboard Record Mailers, and Polystyrene, inside, to protect the goods.

Parker Records and Comics; Brilliant man-I ordered a load of 45s from him-came well packed as above...

Don Parkers Packing is brill...1 x 45...1 x large mailler...1/2 hundred weight of polystyrene chippings

He's ace

..Is there any way we can 'mark up' the bodgers, so no-one else has the experiences detailed in this topic?

[Guest northwest vinyl]

It pays to know who you're buying from. I've sold hundreds of records to buyers in the UK and around the world and have never had one get damaged in transit. When you buy on the cheap from some retiree in Kansas who found a box of 45s when she was cleaning out her basement, well, you have to know you're taking a risk.

[Guest]

It's interesting that paultp left out that our invoice email notes:

"Insurance is available on domestic shipping and will cost $2.00. Please inquire via email regarding international insurance. Items sent without insurance are sent at the risk of the buyer. We will not be held responsible for damage caused during shipping."

paultp didn't get insurance, which I understand. Who wants to pay an extra fee? The thing is, we've sent out well over 250 45s and have had only 5 come back broken. That to me is a pretty good success rate and doesn't need to be improved upon. It's a fact that packages are going to be mis-handled by careless or disgruntled employees. I've received triple boxed LP that have arrived broken. We've also had our share of 45 scammers of late (mostly from France) claiming that the 45 never arrived or came broken but they won't provide a return in the latter case. That's why we include the line about insurance - if you want to be certain that you'll receive your record or will be reimbursed if it comes broken, tack on the insurance fee.

Our boxes are thick. They're corrugated LP boxes that have 4 heavy sides and ARE DIFFICULT to bend. You'd have to go out of your way to fold such a thing, it's not something that comes naturally. Our post office here KNOWS to stamp everything fragile and do not bend and it looks like this time they had forgotten. I think we can be to blame for not checking on that before the package went out.

I think we're a pretty good eBay seller. Our grading is accurate and we ship fast. If you don't want to buy from us because a person on this board had a bad experience, I can understand that. But I have to say, if his first email message to us was less demeaning and angry he probably would have had an easier time getting a refund.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

The thing is, we've sent out well over 250 45s and have had only 5 come back broken. That to me is a pretty good success rate and doesn't need to be improved upon.

Edited June 20, 2006 by TONY ROUNCE

[Gene-R]

In six years, I have sent out over 1,000 packages, and NONE have broken in the post or in transit.

It can be done..................

[Pete S]

In six years, I have sent out over 1,000 packages, and NONE have broken in the post or in transit.

It can be done..................

I've had people telling me items are broken several times so I ask them to send me a photo or send the record back, hey guess what, THEY NEVER DO!

[Cover-up]

While cycling to work this morning I was horrified to see a postman waiting at a bus-stop SITTING ON HIS MAIL BAG.

Of course, my first thought was "there better not be one of my records in that bag..."

Mr. Hydepark Records - 1 in every 50 records broken is NOT a good percentage.

[paultp]

It's interesting that paultp left out that our invoice email notes:

"Insurance is available on domestic shipping and will cost $2.00. Please inquire via email regarding international insurance. Items sent without insurance are sent at the risk of the buyer. We will not be held responsible for damage caused during shipping."

paultp didn't get insurance, which I understand. Who wants to pay an extra fee? The thing is, we've sent out well over 250 45s and have had only 5 come back broken. That to me is a pretty good success rate and doesn't need to be improved upon. It's a fact that packages are going to be mis-handled by careless or disgruntled employees. I've received triple boxed LP that have arrived broken. We've also had our share of 45 scammers of late (mostly from France) claiming that the 45 never arrived or came broken but they won't provide a return in the latter case. That's why we include the line about insurance - if you want to be certain that you'll receive your record or will be reimbursed if it comes broken, tack on the insurance fee.

Hmmm, only just seen this post.

1. 45's should be in 45 sized mailers then there isn't 2.5 inches of flappy cardboard round the 45 which might suggest to the postie that the package is bendable.

2. 45's should have stiffeners round them so that if the postie does decide the package is bendy it proves difficult to bend easily.

3. Marking the items "Fragile" tends to indicate that the package contains a fragile item. Marking them "do not bend" also helps.

Nothing too difficult there.

Your attitude regarding insurance is one that smacks of not really caring whether the customer actually gets what they have ordered. Once you have the money the customer can be forgotten. If there are any problems; well the insurance will pay, if the customer didn't take out insurance; well that's their tough luck. You have the money and you've bunged the record in the post, job done as far as you're concerned. Your comment that 5 broken records doesn't need to be improved on bears this out.

NOT SO! You should make sure, to the best of your ability, that the customer receives the goods they have paid for. You didn't do that and made clear in your correspondence that you couldn't care less.

I want to be certain I'll receive my record full stop. If you pack them properly insurance is not needed. Reimbursement is only monetary, you have made a rare record rarer which saddens me.

Our boxes are thick. They're corrugated LP boxes that have 4 heavy sides and ARE DIFFICULT to bend. You'd have to go out of your way to fold such a thing, it's not something that comes naturally. Our post office here KNOWS to stamp everything fragile and do not bend and it looks like this time they had forgotten. I think we can be to blame for not checking on that before the package went out.

YOUR BOX WAS P*SS POOR! Who are you trying to kid? It was the thinnest LP shipper I've ever seen. Anyway, invest in some 45 shippers.

Your comments on always stamping items "Fragile" and "Do not bend" are a sad joke to be honest. This is what you said to me when I suggested it: "It's implied that it shouldn't be bent, a presume." Too subtle for the US and UK postal services I'm afraid.

I think we're a pretty good eBay seller. Our grading is accurate and we ship fast. If you don't want to buy from us because a person on this board had a bad experience, I can understand that. But I have to say, if his first email message to us was less demeaning and angry he probably would have had an easier time getting a refund.

hey ho! Here is my first email message in all its demeaning glory:

"This arrived today, in a thin LP shipper with no cardboard stiffeners. Not marked Fragile or even Do Not Bend.

Of course it had been bent and so is neatly snapped halfway across. It is now useless and worthless.

I fail to see why record dealers don't pack records correctly, please let me know what you suggest."

There is currently a PayPal dispute going on regarding this, the current stage is that I have returned the record (properly packaged of course) to obtain a refund. It cost me another 7 quid to use Royal Mail Airsure as the item has to be tracked so that PayPal give me a refund (from the sellers account) without having to rely on the sellers honesty. So at the end of the day I will have spent 7 quid and a whole lot of time for ... nothing really.

Edited June 21, 2006 by paultp

[paultp]

But I have to say, if his first email message to us was less demeaning and angry he probably would have had an easier time getting a refund.

This is quite a strange thing to say isn't it? Obviously I should have grovelled.

I hope this means I am getting a refund, although I doubt Mr Erdman will have had any choice in the matter. His first post here was posted a couple of days after PayPal had instructed me to return the record.

Anyway, I'm pleased that he has shown his true colours (or should that be colors?) on this forum as now a large number of serious record buyers appreciate his returns policy and acceptable breakage rate.

Here's his website BTW www.derekerdman.com Click the badges and judge for yourselves.

Cheers

Paul

Edited June 21, 2006 by paultp

[paultp]

Last thing from me on this (thank f**k I hear you cry), got this this morning:

Resolution of Buyer Complaint: Case no. PP-169-076-244

We have concluded our investigation into your Buyer Claim.

We have decided in your favour and have recovered funds from the seller. We were able to recover $55.00 USD, and this amount has been credited to you. Please allow five business days for this adjustment to be posted.

Still 7 quid down on the deal cos of the return postage but I reckon its worth that to get the moola back directly from the smug guy in Chicago. I'd still rather have had the record though.

Thanks to everyone that gave me help and supported me, particularly to Pat Brady who couldn't have been more helpful.

Cheers

Paul

[Guest]

Yes, it's true - we're total scam artists. paultp is a super sleuth and we've been found out. All of our positive feedback resulted from broken records that were insured, and it looks like the gig is up. Good thing I've enrolled in some vocational courses.

If you want to post my mother's address so you can send hate mail, I'll be happy to send it along.

[Guest]

Yes, it's true - we're total scam artists. paultp is a super sleuth and we've been found out. All of our positive feedback resulted from broken records that were insured, and it looks like the gig is up. Good thing I've enrolled in some vocational courses.

If you want to post my mother's address so you can send hate mail, I'll be happy to send it along.

blimey

[paultp]

Yes, it's true - we're total scam artists. paultp is a super sleuth and we've been found out. All of our positive feedback resulted from broken records that were insured, and it looks like the gig is up. Good thing I've enrolled in some vocational courses.

If you want to post my mother's address so you can send hate mail, I'll be happy to send it along.

Irony from an American , I must have misjudged him.

[michael-j]

no-one's claiming you're a scam artist, just (for whatever reason) someone who isn't using proper 45 mailing boxes.

just stop acting hurt and get over to bagsunlimited.com or somewhere...