Is this the same track...always known it as Rock Candy but received a CD with Compliments and it's on refo here as both.

The CD track sounds the same to me

any clues?

thanks in advance

More confusion...it's listed on CD as Contemplations.!!!

It's 2 records that are the same on the same label, Contemplations being the first issue

Contemplations  Alone with no love/Instrumental  Dontee 101

Rock Candy Alone with no love/I don't think I'll ever love another  Dontee 103

Dazz

many thanks for that info....only knew it as Rock Candy

love this track BTW....always have to play it twice...or more!

The story goes;

Original by the Contemplations

Rock Candy recorded 'I don't think....' but didn't record a song for the 'B' side, so the record company used the Contemplations as the 'B' side and for continuity put Rock Candy as the artists. 

So one and the same song by the Contemplations

Just to follow on from Baldsoulie's post, here's a (slightly amended) repost of my post from a thread last year:

 

The Contemplations dead wax carries the etchings "Alone With No Love", "Dontee 101" and the date "8/19/69".  The B-side is the instrumental version by the Dontee Studio Band.

 

The second issue of "Alone With No Love", "Dontee 103", is credited to Rock Candy and has the date "2/18/71" etched in the matrix, and is the B-side to "I Don't Think I'll Ever Love Another".

 

There are three different issues and one demo of Dontee 103 (Rock Candy):

 

a) Yellow label, "Melody-American, Baltimore" address on bottom of label with "Sharrief Music / Wilkens Music Corp / Wally Roker Music BMI" credit.

b) Blue label with "Melody-American, Pensylvania Ave" address on left of label with "Wilkens Music Corp / Wally Rorer Music" credit. 

c) Blue label, no address with "Sharrief Music (BMI)" credit (same credit as The Contemplations on Dontee 101).

d) White label demo with "Melody-American, Pensylvania Ave" address on left of label with "Wilkens Music Corp / Wally Rorer Music" credit.

 

And just to confuse matters further, I can't remember if the blue label boot has the address or not (I haven't seen one in 26 years), but I do know it has the "Wilkens Music Corp / Wally Rorer Music" credit.

 

Trying to tell the difference between the original and a boot of Dontee 103 can be confusing, since the bootlegs have the same matrix engravings as the original, but are faint and don't look like engravings.  The engraving on the originals are quite heavily scratched in.

 

Best way to tell is that on the original, the run-out area on the flip side, "I Don't Think I'll Ever Love Another" is quite thin, and the grooves seem to form a 'pattern' on the surface.  In comparison, the run-out is quite broad on the boot, and there should be very little or no groove 'pattern'.  The vinyl of the boot is also quite thin and flexible, and the label has an almost rough paper texture which is flat in comparison to the ridged label originals

 

Blue and yellow issues with heavily engraved matrix are originals.  

 

Edited April 2, 201510 yr by Gene-R

fascinating stuff guys

so it's Comtemplations..........only knew it from a couple of CDs.....Goldmine had Rock Candy on the cover.

Played it on my radio show....as Rock Candy

Guess I'll have to play it next week and give correct credit....no problem at all

fascinating stuff guys

so it's Comtemplations..........only knew it from a couple of CDs.....Goldmine had Rock Candy on the cover.

Played it on my radio show....as Rock Candy

Guess I'll have to play it next week and give correct credit....no problem at all

Won't matter who you credit it to - still a great record, and either would be correct!

Contemplations and Rock Candy are the same group with a few personnel changes, there was a guy on FB who knows some of them and he told the story. I will try and find it.

The inst B side of Contemplations is brilliant imo.

Cheers

Martyn

I bought a shagged yellow copy,just because i hadn't got the yellow one. .Cant play it out its  so bad.Have i got a problem.?  .Got the blue one as well ,must check the matrix again.

Thanks for that instrumental.....love it.

It's a haunting tune and I never tire of it.

However ,is it a 'Marmite' record...or universally loved?

Anyone got a Contemplations for sale?

Cheers

Steve

Thanks for that instrumental.....love it.

It's a haunting tune and I never tire of it.

However ,is it a 'Marmite' record...or universally loved?

 

Haunting is a good description. It's one of the most interesting arrangements I've ever heard. The structure of the record is totally unique. It could never be Marmite 'cos it's not played out enough and not universally loved either for the same reason. Anyone who can't see the brilliance of this is probably on the wrong scene. It's one of the few records that have never left my collection and never will.

 

Ian D 

Anyone got a Contemplations for sale?

Cheers

Steve

JM 500gbp ouch

Edited April 4, 201510 yr by Baldsoulie

Haunting is a good description. It's one of the most interesting arrangements I've ever heard. The structure of the record is totally unique. It could never be Marmite 'cos it's not played out enough and not universally loved either for the same reason. Anyone who can't see the brilliance of this is probably on the wrong scene. It's one of the few records that have never left my collection and never will.

 

Ian D  [/

quote]

Thanks for that Ian

As I don't get to many sessions I wasn't sure of it's status. I became aware of it on a Golmine CD 70s comp I think. Just struck me as different...and as I say,never tire of hearing it.

Do struggle with the lyrics though

Keep trying to pin 'em down

think I read somewhere that I dont think I'll ever find another was one of Boba's favourite records

wish he was here to confirm Miss him loads.

Just to follow on from Baldsoulie's post, here's a (slightly amended) repost of my post from a thread last year:

 

The Contemplations dead wax carries the etchings "Alone With No Love", "Dontee 101" and the date "8/19/69".  The B-side is the instrumental version by the Dontee Studio Band.

 

The second issue of "Alone With No Love", "Dontee 103", is credited to Rock Candy and has the date "2/18/71" etched in the matrix, and is the B-side to "I Don't Think I'll Ever Love Another".

 

There are three different issues and one demo of Dontee 103 (Rock Candy):

 

a) Yellow label, "Melody-American, Baltimore" address on bottom of label with "Sharrief Music / Wilkens Music Corp / Wally Roker Music BMI" credit.

b) Blue label with "Melody-American, Pensylvania Ave" address on left of label with "Wilkens Music Corp / Wally Rorer Music" credit. 

c) Blue label, no address with "Sharrief Music (BMI)" credit (same credit as The Contemplations on Dontee 101).

d) White label demo with "Melody-American, Pensylvania Ave" address on left of label with "Wilkens Music Corp / Wally Rorer Music" credit.

 

And just to confuse matters further, I can't remember if the blue label boot has the address or not (I haven't seen one in 26 years), but I do know it has the "Wilkens Music Corp / Wally Rorer Music" credit.

 

Trying to tell the difference between the original and a boot of Dontee 103 can be confusing, since the bootlegs have the same matrix engravings as the original, but are faint and don't look like engravings.  The engraving on the originals are quite heavily scratched in.

 

Best way to tell is that on the original, the run-out area on the flip side, "I Don't Think I'll Ever Love Another" is quite thin, and the grooves seem to form a 'pattern' on the surface.  In comparison, the run-out is quite broad on the boot, and there should be very little or no groove 'pattern'.  The vinyl of the boot is also quite thin and flexible, and the label has an almost rough paper texture which is flat in comparison to the ridged label originals

 

Blue and yellow issues with heavily engraved matrix are originals.  

 

 

Hi Gene,any thoughts on one with "alone with no love" etched lightly in run out ,plus the flip has what looks like "tc" etched in runout.? Basically your option b) with the above..?

 

Kev.

Haunting is a good description. It's one of the most interesting arrangements I've ever heard. The structure of the record is totally unique. It could never be Marmite 'cos it's not played out enough and not universally loved either for the same reason. Anyone who can't see the brilliance of this is probably on the wrong scene. It's one of the few records that have never left my collection and never will.

 

Ian D 

Ian

Wasn't the reason it never made cult status like it should have was because it was booted before it had a chance to achieve the heights it should have at The Mecca???

Great to see people showing interest in it a bit more these days,maybe one of those that slipped through the net first time round might come back & become the monster it deserves to be.

One of the few tunes I think the inst is as good as the vocal?

Cheers

Martyn

i bought the contemplations blind for a fiver in the mid 90`s.never new it existed..hedged my bets on it being a different version and was slightly shocked when it played the same record..nice to find out it was the orig version and had the inst flip ...gary smelt at blacknight..happy days

JM 500gbp ouch

in reality..nearer £250 for a clean copy

 

Edited April 6, 201510 yr by dave pinch

Five pounds well spent there dave great record and one I'm after .... 250 ---300  fair price I think...

I paid a whopping £25 for mine grrrrrr £20 too much ????

ATB...Rob

Hi Gene,any thoughts on one with "alone with no love" etched lightly in run out ,plus the flip has what looks like "tc" etched in runout.? Basically your option b) with the above..?

 

Kev.

Hi Kev,

 

Hmmm, you've lost me on the "TC" matrix, sorry to say!  If the B-side title is 'lightly' etched rather than a deep etching, and the label has a matt, paper-type feel and look, then it's more likely to be a boot.  

 

Sorry I can't be of any more help on it, though would definitely know if I were to see it.

 

Gene

Hey all, think I'll help out with this one. Here's the deal:

 

Contemplations were a group that worked with Joe Tate for their first and only release as themselves, Alone with No Love. Joe clearly released it as vocal and instrumental.* Then, one member left the group, and the group continued to gig around DC at places like Howard University and local clubs. Joe had a lead singer that he needed to pair with backing male vocalists for another song, "I Don't Think I'll Ever Love another", that Joe had written. What happened next is what often is miswritten. Joe got the 3 remaining Contemplations to back this new lead singer, and they adopted a new name....Rock Candy. They only recorded the 1 track. Joe then released the original cut by the Contemplations on the same 45 as the Rock Candy cut, and since it was majority the same group, they used the new group name. The Contemplations members then left after the recording to found a group called "Natural Fact". This group never recorded. Then The lead singer of Rock Candy was paired with 2 backing vocalists for shows. Some more material was written for this new group, but never released.

 

Hope this clears things up!

 

*One interesting note regarding the vocal and instumental for "Alone With No Love".....the recording engineer sped up the final mix at the request of one vocalist and Joe. The instrumental, which was cut prior to the final mix, is slightly slower as it reflects the original speed of the recording.)

Edited April 9, 201510 yr by Blueimage

Also, regarding the multiple releases of the Rock Candy 45 on different colored labels. Joe Tate had partnered with a Distributor in Baltimore, hence the multiple label designations of Melody-American, Baltimore. This was all part of Joe's plan as the record sold so well in DC, he had to repress multiple times to meet demand. The Record actually reached number 60 something on WOL's charts for the year it was released, 1971. 1 year prior to the cover recorded by the Darling Dears. That being said, I can't speak for whether or not anyone bootlegged it at a later date.

Edited April 9, 201510 yr by Blueimage

Last little bit to add, all parties discussed here are from Washington, DC. The distributor info, (namely the mention of "Baltimore"), has confused some individuals into mistaking the label, groups, etc. as Baltimore entities.

Edited April 9, 201510 yr by Blueimage

Right, that's the original backing track, before it was slightly sped up for the vocal side.

 

Contemplations.JPG

Just to follow on from Baldsoulie's post, here's a (slightly amended) repost of my post from a thread last year:

 

The Contemplations dead wax carries the etchings "Alone With No Love", "Dontee 101" and the date "8/19/69".  The B-side is the instrumental version by the Dontee Studio Band.

 

The second issue of "Alone With No Love", "Dontee 103", is credited to Rock Candy and has the date "2/18/71" etched in the matrix, and is the B-side to "I Don't Think I'll Ever Love Another".

 

 

Gene - on the Rock Candy "103" 'Alone With No Love' side, they didnt change the label number for the matirx as it still carries the original label number of "101" in the matrix doesn't it?

Rock Candy Demo.

 

Edited June 13, 2024Jun 13 by Bo Diddley

Gene - on the Rock Candy "103" 'Alone With No Love' side, they didnt change the label number for the matirx as it still carries the original label number of "101" in the matrix doesn't it?

 

Not sure to be honest Dave.  Does it?  I know it carries the February 1971 date rather than the August 1969 date, but wasn't aware of the 101/103 number matrix.

Not sure to be honest Dave.  Does it?  I know it carries the February 1971 date rather than the August 1969 date, but wasn't aware of the 101/103 number matrix.

 

I thought it still had the "101" in the matrix - but wasn't aware of the date - so if we mix both our awareness together that could be the answer...?

Not sure to be honest Dave.  Does it?  I know it carries the February 1971 date rather than the August 1969 date, but wasn't aware of the 101/103 number matrix.

Hi, I just checked and Dave is correct. Also, the handwriting style is different on the 2 sides

Much neater and more visible on the "Alone" side. 

Not sure to be honest Dave.  Does it?  I know it carries the February 1971 date rather than the August 1969 date, but wasn't aware of the 101/103 number matrix.

 

When I get home, I'll look at my copies and see which matrix is referenced on the run-out for that side in all the different releases. What I do know is that it's exactly the same take as the original release, from the same masters. So having 101 on all the presses makes sense. 

Edited April 15, 201510 yr by Blueimage

BTW....I'm lucky in that I was able to meet and interview the writer, producer, and select group members from both the Contemplations and Rock Candy, so that's where I attained my info.

Edited April 15, 201510 yr by Blueimage

Brilliant info from blueimage - many thanks Sir! Makes a load of sense and clears up a long time mystique over this track.

And thank you to this thread and its starter snakepit, as i was able to source a copy of The Contemplations from a certain Sir J Bentley Esq.

Cheers

Steve

Just to add to the above,sometimes when you see a thread repeated after a few years,you tend to think the answer is already out there.!!

Goes to show you never know who's going to turn up with the goods,or when.!!

Thanks Blueimage. 

Happy to help! Just want to clear up some of the confusion. Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions related to Washington, DC in the future. Some things I know and some I don't, but I do have a pretty decent database at this point. I'm also in the final stages of a book documenting the local scene here. So many great photos and anecdotes! Hard to fit it all in

Edited April 16, 201510 yr by Blueimage

Dazz

many thanks for that info....only knew it as Rock Candy

love this track BTW....always have to play it twice...or more!

heres the dontee studio band..just put it on you tube as i had a bit of time on my hands this morning

 

An acetate of the instrumental exists. Keb Darge had it about 15 years ago. Don' t know where it is now. From what I rememeber it was a bit different to the released mix.

dontee didnt issue many 45s it seems and there was a big gap between releases...contemplations is 101, issued in aug 1969..dontee  102 ...the summitts i just cant get over losing you  was issued  on 16th april 1970 

Happy to help! Just want to clear up some of the confusion. Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions related to Washington, DC in the future. Some things I know and some I don't, but I do have a pretty decent database at this point. I'm also in the final stages of a book documenting the local scene here. So many great photos and anecdotes! Hard to fit it all in

 

Top man Blueimage - thanks again!

dontee didnt issue many 45s it seems and there was a big gap between releases...contemplations is 101, issued in aug 1969..dontee  102 ...the summitts i just cant get over losing you  was issued  on 16th april 1970 

 

Correct, there were big spaces in the releases. The following were issued on Dontee':

 

100 Blendells – Did You Mean / You Mean Love (May 20, 1969)

101 Contemplations – Alone With No Love (vocal) / instrumental (Dontee Studio Band) (August 19, 1969)

102 Summitts – I Can’t Get Over Losing You / I Can’t Get Over Losing You (Instrumental with Dontee Studio Band) (April 16, 1970)

103 Rock Candy – I Don’t Think I’ll Ever Love Another / Alone With No Love (Contemplations) (February 18, 1971)

104 Blendels – Beware / Instrumental (1972)

 

That being said, the concept of Dontee' was alive and well in 1968 when Joe Tate released the Blendells "Night After Night" on Captown, [which was picked up by Cotillion]. "Dontee Productions" was listed on the label.

 

One reason releases were few and far between was that Joe was keeping busy outside of the label. He worked on many other projects in between Dontee' releases.

Edited April 17, 201510 yr by Blueimage

An acetate of the instrumental exists. Keb Darge had it about 15 years ago. Don' t know where it is now. From what I rememeber it was a bit different to the released mix.

I just asked him about it, but he doesn't recall actually having one. He said he may have referenced an acetate as Rock Candy since it sounded a lot like them. 

heres the dontee studio band..just put it on you tube as i had a bit of time on my hands this morning

 

Following on from the comments earlier in the thread, you really can hear how it's slower/the vocal was "speeded-up". Seems to give it a different "feel".

Following on from the comments earlier in the thread, you really can hear how it's slower/the vocal was "speeded-up". Seems to give it a different "feel".

Exactly, that's what the writer was going for, and the increased speed made it work.

Stumbled upon this on youtube, most interesting thing for me is that the composer of the Contemplations may also have been the composer of Skip Mahoney's "Janice".

Here's a link to original youtube post:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8B0GOKKATo

 

Danny Feeney

Published on Nov 16, 2017

The Contemplations - Alone With No Love [Composer: Matthew Allen] c/w Dontee Studio Band - Alone With No Love [Instr] [Composer: Matthew Allen] [USA Dontee 101] 19 August 1969 [Matthew Allen member of Skip Mahoney & The Casuals] Matrix mastering date 19 August 1969. Rock Candy - I Don't Think I'll Ever Love Another c/w Alone With No Love [USA Dontee Records 103] 18 Feb 1971 The Contemplations / Dontee Studio Band - Alone With No Love

 

They are the same band. Must have been a management or label decision. The Contemplations / Dontee Studio Band - Alone With No Love It was not a shrewd action as the group was aware of the usage. You see, the Rock Candy recording featured a new lead vocalist who was backed by most of the Contemplations. That vocalist had previously been using the name "Rock Candy" for his performances and with a few other members. Those members couldn't handle the vocal changes, so they were replaced by the Contemplations for the recording session. They had the A side down, then decided to use their old recording for the B side, and because of the member changes, they adopted the Rock Candy name for the session. To Whoever thinks the blue label is a bootleg. I Found stock copies of both color labels together in ancient bags in Baltimore about 2 miles from where the OG distributor was. These were found alongside stock copies of other '60s Baltimore psych records and some Bay Sound stuff. Two pressings of Dontee 103 exist, the original being a yellow label with different logo lettering and design. "Alone With No Love" is actually a Re-release of the same track [exact same recording/mix] previously credited to The Contemplations, also on Dontee, which is assumed to be the same group. That first pressing of the record also contains an instrumental version flip, whereas the Rock Candy releases both contain the sublime sweet soul cut "I don't think I'll ever love another", which was also later recorded by Darling Dears on Flower City Records. It is believed by many collectors that the light blue Rock Candy pressing is in fact a very old bootleg, however many others argue the claim and therefore ascertaining the true facts have proven difficult and so it remains open. Rock Candy: Alone With No Love - The TRUE Story!!! Nice to see one of my personal faves "Alone With No Love" by Rock Candy being re-activated. But how many of you know the true story behind the record? Well, for those who don't, then the simple answer is Alone With No Love is NOT by Rock Candy!! Puzzled? Then read on........... Dontee 101 was released as "Alone With No Love" - The Contemplations c/w The Dontee Studio Band doing an instrumental version. According to the matrix, the tracks were cut on the 19th August 1969. I assume it was released shortly after this date. Anyway, a year and a half down the line, along came funk/soul group Rock Candy, who cut just one track for Dontee, "I Don't Think I'll Ever Love Another". This became the A-side for Dontee 103, in February 1971. As Rock Candy had nothing to put on the B-side, a shrewd source from Dontee used "Alone With No Love" by the Contemplations, stuck it on the B-side, and credited it to Rock Candy!!! So there we have it; proof that Rock Candy's "Alone With No Love" is really The Contemplations cut from 1969. There are very, very few copies of the Contemplations in circulation, and none of them are anywhere near Mint. I've been told that if a Mint copy were to turn up, it would certainly sell for around £750. The biggest selling point of this issue is the stunning B-side which is, quite simply, the instrumental backing track with a lot of the reverb removed. When I bought my copy earlier this year, it was the first time I had heard it since Peterborough 1983!! I have no idea what the "Rock Candy" issue goes for these days, but I know it's much more than the £8 I sold my copy for 10 years ago!! By the way, when buying the Rock Candy issue, beware of thin vinyl lookalike bootlegs, pressed in the late '70s. They have a matt paper label [not gloss], and the matrix engravings are faint. The original, on the other hand, is pressed on thick vinyl, a semi-shiny label, and distinct engraved matrix. Gene

Rock Candy The only album by American band from Minnesota, formed in 1969 and existed until 1972. They managed to sign a contract with "Mike Curb's MGM Label" in 1970 and release a self-titled LP. Guitarist Brian Naughton later will play in the team "Rockicks". Personnel: Brian Naughton - guitar Andy Andrews - bass Frank Daniels - organ & piano Joe Roffredo - drums

Edited July 24, 20186 yr by woolie mark

On 04/04/2015 at 11:43, KevH said:

 

Hi Gene,any thoughts on one with "alone with no love" etched lightly in run out ,plus the flip has what looks like "tc" etched in runout.? Basically your option b) with the above..?

 

Kev.

 

On 07/04/2015 at 11:28, Gene-R said:

Hi Kev,

 

Hmmm, you've lost me on the "TC" matrix, sorry to say!  If the B-side title is 'lightly' etched rather than a deep etching, and the label has a matt, paper-type feel and look, then it's more likely to be a boot.  

 

Sorry I can't be of any more help on it, though would definitely know if I were to see it.

 

Gene

My yellow issue has the “tc” in the runout of the IDTIELA side, the “t” having an inverted “hat” (v) underneath and also 103-A scratched in large letters.  It also has “DW” stamped in runout of AWNL side as well as 101-A2, “ALONE WITH NO LOVE”, 2/18/71 followed by a four letter scribble and 45rpm etched in.

Boot or not?

I believe the boots are blue labels, yellows are original.

m