Following on from the 'Where Are All The New Discoveries" thread it occurred to me that things are much more difficult these days in terms of 'breaking' a new tune. In the 1970s we had a 100,000 strong highly focussed, passionate and youthful crowd on the scene and big new tunes could break in a couple of weeks all across the country. A decent bootleg could sell 20,000 copies and a UK release of an in-demand item could even hit the UK charts and sell over 100,000.

But times have changed and the scene has naturally evolved.

So who's responsible for establishing the 'big' new tunes these days?

This generally narrows down to who are the DJ's who are actively 'breaking' new tunes on the scene as it exists these days? And how do they manage to do it? Do they play at a major gig every week? Do they 'cross-over' to larger crowds at bigger events? Are they deejaying with like-minded DJ's and an encouraging promoter with a good crowd?

Or is the scene made out of a 10% elite who see the top DJ's regularly and know who's playing the good stuff and a 90% audience who just want to hear oldies? Plus 10 zillion private collectors with decent collections who just want to play their favorites to their mates?

It must be tough. Right now Butch seems to be No.1 and seems to command universal respect from all quarters, so how do his plays impact on the rest of the scene? Does a great Butch play mean that most DJ's will then beat a stampede to get hold of that tune? Can a Butch play accelerate a record's value 1000% in 3 months? What level of demand these days makes a record worth re-issuing?

Questions, questions......

In short, how do you break a new Northern Soul tune these days and get it popular with the total audience that's out there? Can it still be done?

Ian D

These days I am firmly ensconced in my R&B pigeonhole, and don't venture out into the 'Northern' scene often.

If I did, Butch would be the man I'd travel to hear. For me, he has the ability to bring back those feelings of anticipation and excitement that made the scene what it was in the early days.

As for DJs stampeding to get hold of his tunes, my preference is for those djs that turn up with a box of records that reflect their own taste.

Cant help but find it quite revealing that despite many on here having a opinion on just about every aspect of the scene ( including me), not many want to speak up on this one, can o' worms methinks.

Cant help but find it quite revealing that despite many on here having a opinion on just about every aspect of the scene ( including me), not many want to speak up on this one, can o' worms methinks.

Yep, interesting for sure and that's one of the reasons I posed the question. As you say, there's an incredible amount of interest in the subject just gauging the amount of views to this thread, yet hardly any replies for some reason.

OK, admittedly I posed a lot of questions and it's a complex subject. Probably understandable that nobody wants to nail their colours to the mast. But to me this a what a forum should be about. I'm in the enviable position of being able to say what I want because I've been around since the year dot, I'm old enough to have an impervious criticism shield and I'm not enmeshed in any scene politics.

Objectively what I see right now, is almost another potential split in the scene, where the mass (circa 90%) audience is for oldies (probably 'cos it's easier,

more convenient for most and hits the perfect demographic for the age group) and the serious die-hards (circa 10%) who want to hear the new rare tunes and fresh plays.

So, do the twain ever meet?

Are the traditional grass routes reliable HUGE audience of mainly over 50's who love their oldies capable of appreciating a vintage Butch set?

Is Butch working hard enough? Is he doing 2-3 gigs a week to prime receptive audiences? Is he hitting enough people with his tunes? Should more promoters be booking DJ's who play current stuff rather then oldies? And, if so, will their audiences appreciate it?

How do great new Northern Soul tunes spread to the mass audience these days?

I dunno. That's the point of the thread...........

Ian D

Hello Ian,

Interesting points and questions so I'm really surprised at the lack of response.

Why the silence???

You should start hacking some phones to find out what people are really saying about DJs etc.

Paul

Hello Ian,

Interesting points and questions so I'm really surprised at the lack of response.

Why the silence???

You should start hacking some phones to find out what people are really saying about DJs etc.

Paul

Hiya Paul,

Well maybe it shows how political the scene has become? It's kinda easier to swerve the issue rather than confront it? I guess I'm trying to figure out how much thirst there is for new sounds via the mass audience these days? I mean, can any DJ play a 'height of the night' set to a 'mainstream' audience with purely super rare or new spins without resorting to oldies these days?

Ian D

butch is out on his own as number 1 by a long way.

i think butch only does lifeline, 100 club and a few guest DJ sets these days. prob 20 a yr max. breaking records is done by certain promoters having own labels and pressing a couple hundred off an unreleased record nowadays. the others are all "ONE OFFS". imho

well IMO Butch and Andy Dyson are still the top two. Andy probably shades Butch as he Dj's most weekends but he does find stuff for other DJ's too. Butch is semi-retired and isn't heard enough these days but when you hear him at places like Thorne, Lifeline, 100 Club you still realise why he's the top DJ on the rare soul scene. Some of his sets at Lifeline the past 18 months are as good as I've heard from him.

New records are a nightmare to break. Because not so many travel these days and you have all the local factions/scenes it would take half a dozen DJ's to break a particular record in a short space of time. Some of the records that just one or two DJ's possess have taken something like 10 years to finally make it, some longer.

Hiya Paul,

Well maybe it shows how political the scene has become? It's kinda easier to swerve the issue rather than confront it? I guess I'm trying to figure out how much thirst there is for new sounds via the mass audience these days? I mean, can any DJ play a 'height of the night' set to a 'mainstream' audience with purely super rare or new spins without resorting to oldies these days?

Ian D

From what I've seen of the mainstream / nostalgia scene I'd say no.

I'd imagine if Butch (in my view way ahead off other Djs for over 2 decades) played a prime set of smash the place up northern like his Mighty lover's C/U, Jean Carter etc; let alone his more diverse playlist it'd fall on its arse.

When I've been in main rooms most of the punters seem to want and respond to tried and tested sounds which I asume they remember from their youth. You may get the odd track that crosses over but a full current Butch, Dyson etc set - at prime time? Nope - unfortunatly

Edited February 12, 201114 yr by Byrney

From what I've seen of the mainstream / nostalgia scene I'd say no.

I'd imagine if Butch (in my view way ahead off other Djs for over 2 decades) played a prime set of smash the place up northern like his Mighty lover's C/U, Jean Carter etc; let alone his more diverse playlist it'd fall on its arse.

When I've been in main rooms most of the punters seem to want and respond to tried and tested sounds which I asume they remember from their youth. You may get the odd track that cosses over but a full current Butch, Dyson etc set - at prime time? Nope - unfortunatly

Bang on Byrney, mainstream is a safe environment and not the place for anything unknown. There is very little tolerance out there these days and very little appetite for anything new. Thing is when some thing does make it eventually it's always others who get the credit

for records to be able to be broken on the scene the dj playing them must be djn week in week out nigh on and surely there would have to be a few of them about and not just one offs and yep i thinks if Butch has a tune thats a plenty and he gives it a spin it sends many searching for a copy, a fine example but i could be wrong was when Butch played Johnny Howard - The chase is on, went massive and now a must in every dj play box, for me i think a couple of djs for example that could break new tunes are the likes of Dave Rimmer and Sean Chapman cos they play mainly Oldies sets that fill the dance floor and give the dancers what they want, slip the odd unkown tune you beleive in amongst all the floor fillers and before long it will catch on, Stanky get funky, is an example i never thought would catch on in the oldies scene but it has and there is no reason why many tunes that are played by rarer/underplayed djs that aint in the top 500 could catch on through the whole scene, IMHO in the 10% part of the scene it is getting harder to break big massive tunes cos they just aint out there but for the Oldies scene there are 1000s waiting to be heard by the masses, ok not all are going to be good enough but many played back in the day wasnt good enough but if they dont get played then we will never know if they are good enough or what, perfect night for me is cracking oldies played alongside rare underplayed and forgotten soul,

Im lucky really ive only been around in the scene for about 5 years so everything is new to me and i have no connection to any of all the great venues of yesteryear so i aint on no nostalgia trip or fixed to a certain era, what the date on a record has to do with anything i dont know cos if its good enough then play it and if you beleive in it then keep playing it cos a good dj should have a good ear not just a good dance floor freindly collection

funny thing is i go to Oldies venues and the floor empties to anything thats not known BUT when i go to a rare/underplayed venue the floor often fills right up to a cracking Oldie,

there is so many more great tunes that could be broken on the scene still but have the djs got the balls to play them, not a whole set but 1 in say 4 records, sureoy that would keep the scene exciting and progressive or am i in a world of my own anyway thats my thoughts did i go off topic it was a bit of a ramble

great thread this Ian and will be hope others contribute too

Obviously it depends on who you have seen /heard for yourself and of course it is inevitably gonna be Butch who'se name is 1st up ,but for me I'm gonna nominate two people who have made a big impact are ,

Big George ,who has made a lot of people sit up and listen to things that he has had a passion for,the funky edged stuff that been around but invisible to most staunch soul fans.

Next nomination goes to Dave Ripolles,who just seems to have a knack of finding and playing sublime sounds,all tempo's ,genres ,60's /70's ,no matter what ,he keeps finding em and is ahead of the pack imho.

Must also give mentioned to Karl Heard,although i admit i haven't seen much of Karl,when I have ,he always has the floor going and seems to play stuff I've never heard before.

To be honest its refreshing to know there are still a lot of people out there with the passion to keep driving forward and keeping things fresh, willing to try playing something different....Marco,Joel ,Jordi,Andy Dyson ,Mick n Mo,too many to mention !

Makes me feel sad for those who can't get past the 70's era:'(

Hi Nev

beat me to it i was going to mention those two Dave shades it for me but George pushes the boundaries a lot more as you and i are alike in that we prefer the smaller esoteric clubs so we hear a lot of new stuff regularly (new to our ears anyway) for mainstream i would say andy dyson and butch, form chats with johnny beggs i think butch could probably play a lot more new stuff but he keeps it filed away. this is where andy differs as he passes stuff on to other dj's so probably has more influence behind the scene as well.

mark

Yep, interesting for sure and that's one of the reasons I posed the question. As you say, there's an incredible amount of interest in the subject just gauging the amount of views to this thread, yet hardly any replies for some reason.

OK, admittedly I posed a lot of questions and it's a complex subject. Probably understandable that nobody wants to nail their colours to the mast. But to me this a what a forum should be about. I'm in the enviable position of being able to say what I want because I've been around since the year dot, I'm old enough to have an impervious criticism shield and I'm not enmeshed in any scene politics.

Objectively what I see right now, is almost another potential split in the scene, where the mass (circa 90%) audience is for oldies (probably 'cos it's easier,

more convenient for most and hits the perfect demographic for the age group) and the serious die-hards (circa 10%) who want to hear the new rare tunes and fresh plays.

So, do the twain ever meet?

Are the traditional grass routes reliable HUGE audience of mainly over 50's who love their oldies capable of appreciating a vintage Butch set?

Is Butch working hard enough? Is he doing 2-3 gigs a week to prime receptive audiences? Is he hitting enough people with his tunes? Should more promoters be booking DJ's who play current stuff rather then oldies? And, if so, will their audiences appreciate it?

How do great new Northern Soul tunes spread to the mass audience these days?

I dunno. That's the point of the thread...........

Ian D

Hi Ian

You'd have to ask him but I don't think Butch would want to be doing 2-3 gigs per week these days. Much as I'd love 1% of the records he has and has broken over the years - head and shoulders in my opinion, as others have also said - it must actually be pretty boring for him at times. As has already been said, I don't think there's either the 45s or the mindset anymore to drive and break the newies like there used to be. People seem to me to have different priorities insofar as collecting / dj-ing / promoting, even dancing are concerned and I'm not sure the scene is healthier in the longer term for that.

However, it always had to come to terms with it's own mortality at some stage and adapt to things like people having more disposable income (happy days they were), an ageing crowd, the massive increase in venues and, generally, a more global take on the thing. It's still evolving and sorting itself out of course and will continue to do so. As ever, there will always be folk and records who step up to the mark at different times; they won't always get the credit they deserve but I think that's always been true too: one person plays it and it clears the floor and a 'name' plays it and it's rammed, them's the breaks.

The days of records being turned up and over at a rate of knots are long gone of course and, even if they were around, I'm far from convinced that the appetite for them exists amongst the vast majority. Sure, the odd thing will cross over into the large rooms and venues but, other than Lifeline, I'm not sure where you'd go now to hear high quality newies on a consistent basis? For me, that's where you're most likely to hear some of the big lads pushing each other and I'm not sure that happens as much now as it once did. If anything, they all, or a few of em, have to have it to get it out there, as other's have said already. It's rare for those breaking new records to be playing to 500+ I suspect and the audience isn't, therefore, as captive as it once was.

For me, it is how it is and what'll be will be. It'll never be like it was or maybe even how I'd like it to be. I reckon we might as well accept that and get on. Those in the know and who are genuinely passionate about the music and keeping the momentum going will always push on and, mostly, drag the rest along kicking and screaming.

atb

Phil

ps. The short answer then is no, you couldn't play an upfront, in your face set peak time at one of the massive 500+ venues IMHO. Here's one for you though, post Wigan / Mecca /Stafford, where could you?

Reason for lack of response?.Can o Worms - too right.It'll end in tears.Who broke what where,who played it before that and so on.

Breaking a new sound?.Fine line between exclusive play to overplayed.That how fickle the scene is.

Butch and AD out in front.

Soul Sam can break a tune very quickly even today . It is just a matter of ..whether he can get Butch's tunes really ( funky , modern or 60's )

Edited February 12, 201114 yr by Simon M

Yep with both Chalky & Byrney there..A lot of people bang on about hearing something new, but the sad reality is most wanna hear what they know..George has made a impression, but a lot of people banging his drum don't sound like they now what drum there banging after listening to them cause i'm not always sure who they have been listening to..Think a case of parrot speak rather than listening..

That's not a reflection on George cause he's a nice bloke and seems to want to play something different which is always refreshing..and has some good records to boot..

Butch & Mr Dyson Head & shoulders above the rest by a mile.......

Edited February 12, 201114 yr by hootenannie

Soul Sam can break a tune very quickly even today . It is just a matter of ..whether he can get Butch's tunes really ( funky , modern or 60's )

Well, Sam still seems to be the hardest working jock on the scene. I bet he's still cranking out a couple of gigs a week isn't he? 40 years in the top flight isn't to be sniffed at is it?

Ian D

Well, Sam still seems to be the hardest working jock on the scene. I bet he's still cranking out a couple of gigs a week isn't he? 40 years in the top flight isn't to be sniffed at is it?

Ian D

He could do more , and often turns down gigs as hes booked for months in advance . Crazy really at his age lol

ps. If I had three copies of something, hed get one first

Edited February 12, 201114 yr by Simon M

He could do more , and often turns down gigs as hes booked for months in advance . Crazy really at his age lol

ps. If I had three copies of something, hed get one first

Yep, ridiculous innit? He deserves a Northern Soul medal of honour for first class commitment. I thought he was old in 1973 LOL. ....

In fact, the first time I ever saw Sam was at that very gig at Whitchurch Civic Hall in 1973 or thereabouts when I asked someone who the old bloke was that kept shuffling around the stage. I actually thought Soul Sam was like, Whitchurch Civic Hall's caretaker or something...........

Love him dearly for his passion, commitment and enthusiasm.

Ian D

PS If I had one copy of something, he'd still get it first

Do a Youtube Interview Ian . Ahh but you need Steve G along too Actually Steve has a few newies frm Soul Bowl , where is he ?

Edited February 12, 201114 yr by Simon M

Yep with both Chalky & Byrney there..A lot of people bang on about hearing something new, but the sad reality is most wanna hear what they know..George has made a impression, but a lot of people banging his drum don't sound like they now what drum there banging after listening to them cause i'm not always sure who they have been listening to..

That's not a reflection on George cause he's a nice bloke and seems to want to play something different which is always refreshing..

Butch & Mr Dyson Head & shoulders above the rest by a mile.......

There are a lot of DJs out there who are playing 'funky' type tunes at the moment. (I use the term funky just because I have no other).

These sounds are usually not to my taste but I consider myself to be pretty tolerant so no real biggie. I am after all but one person on a fairly large scene and if it appeals to people and gets them up then job done.

That said, if these kind of tunes are destined to become the future of the scene then I am afraid I won't be on it.

And before anyone says I am narrow minded and not open to hearing new stuff - can I just say that is not the case. I always listen to what is being played and if something new came along that moved me the same way as Eddie Parker et al did then I would go for it 100%. Life is too short not to!

But that day is yet to come...

Thankfully there will always be a venue out there for my type of dinosaur

As for breaking new discoveries? You can bet there are DJ's out there playing what is a 'new discovery' to someone every single weekend. No one knows everything and we don't all hear records at the same time.

A perfect example of this is the recent Precisions on Hen-Mar thread. Butch has been playing this covered up as the Four Perfections and many on here consider it to be a relatively new discovery and yet Simon T and others have known it for 25 years.

Until every person on the scene has heard and knows absolutely every record that has been played can there really ever be a 'true' new discovery?

Do a Youtube Interview Ian . Ahh but you need Steve G along too Actually Steve has a few newies frm Soul Bowl , where is he ?

You see. There's another one who doesn't gig anywhere near enough. What is it with these guys? No bloody work ethic. It'd be easier just to go round to Steve's shed rather than trying to actually catch him at a gig!

Maybe that's the future? Since Butch and Stevie G don't seem so keen on driving hundreds of miles and playing multiple venues every week, then let the punters come to them. Brilliant idea Ian!

"You are cordially invited for an evening of special listening pleasure in Butch's living room. From the comfort of his armchair Butch will play from his very, very exclusive triple A rated personal favourites box which will include several 'never previously played out' gems, his 'home-only one-offs' and 'the secret living room sound of the month". Just 2 x £500 tickets left folks, so don't delay!

or

"Exclusive! We are down to the final 2 x V.I.P. tickets left for the November date for "Steve G's Secret Shed". This heavily sold-out monthly event includes Steve showing his label runs and his extensive alphabetical and colour-coded filing system from the comfort of his own shed". A mere snip @ £750.

Do these guys have agents?

Ian D

george is playing a lot of deep funk to the northern crowd. It was bound to happen one day as the deep funk scene is basically ended so good luck to him.

I am hearing records I like that I didn';t previosuly know which is what its all about.

he either joined the northern rare soul scene or listenend to his funk with 3 other people round his house.

but all this funky norethern just lately is getting a bit out of hand saeems every man and his dog is jumping on it.

i'm still a big fan of mid tempo and it deserves it time on the turntables. I don't agree with the arguement that music has to be uptempo all night to keep the place jumping. A set of brilliant mid tempo keeps me dancing just as much as the good uptempo.

another guy I love to hear DJ is sean hampsey. I'm sure a few tunes now are starting to get the tag of "just soul" tunes.

Did James Trouble try Deep funk at Northern doo's ?

Most of the funky stuff played in Northern rooms is as Joan says, it has a funk edge to it. The harder funk type records are mostly in side rooms and I doubt much of it will crossover to mainstream NS rooms. Listened to George a few times, even been on at Lifeline, but I doubt some of what he plays would survive in a mainstream venue, think George would probably admit as much too.

Like Joan it isn't all to my taste, much of it second rate, there's much better 60's ignored.

spot on kitch butch and andy out in front,but there are others with less exposure who have been around and have access to good new stuff.......andy killick, cliff camfield and i,m sure there are more..........sets of totally unkown stuff are as bad as sets of big ticket oldies. Obsession with new stuff can kinda stifle things......remember people are going out for a good time so being to precious about just new discoveries is counter productive............what l think makes butch,andy,cliff cam and a few of the lesser known fellas good is they can really mix there sets up playing not to much of anything (unkowns,current or super rare) in short they can play a dance set full of all this stuff. Most dj,s only play one genre i.e oldies or upfront ect ect and do not have the breadth of tunes to make their sets come alive. All this music is great ,but dj,s must start singing from the same hymn sheet for the whole night.......so all the sets of the night become seamless not up and down or dis jointed,this is probably the promoters job....selecting dj,s on their tunes not how nice they are. My guess is butch has been very cute about how much djing he does,it,s one of the reasons in the main people don,t get bored of hearing him ( tip for dj,s....don,t dj every event under the sun that;ll have ya ).........peggy b

spot on kitch butch and andy out in front,but there are others with less exposure who have been around and have access to good new stuff.......andy killick, cliff camfield and i,m sure there are more..........sets of totally unkown stuff are as bad as sets of big ticket oldies. Obsession with new stuff can kinda stifle things......remember people are going out for a good time so being to precious about just new discoveries is counter productive............what l think makes butch,andy,cliff cam and a few of the lesser known fellas good is they can really mix there sets up playing not to much of anything (unkowns,current or super rare) in short they can play a dance set full of all this stuff. Most dj,s only play one genre i.e oldies or upfront ect ect and do not have the breadth of tunes to make their sets come alive. All this music is great ,but dj,s must start singing from the same hymn sheet for the whole night.......so all the sets of the night become seamless not up and down or dis jointed,this is probably the promoters job....selecting dj,s on their tunes not how nice they are. My guess is butch has been very cute about how much djing he does,it,s one of the reasons in the main people don,t get bored of hearing him ( tip for dj,s....don,t dj every event under the sun that;ll have ya ).........peggy b

Mmmm. That's pretty interesting. So are some rare Soul DJ's ironically keeping their appearances rare to maintain interest or mystique and therefore could be playing to the same audience much of the time or preaching to the converted?

And presumably there's others who click up the miles most weekends and are probably decent crowd-pleasers in many regions and that's why they're never short of bookings?

A little bit of both attitudes could be the perfect balance maybe?

Ian D

Hi Joan, Not a crisicism of the more funky edged stuff or indeed George as we need some variation sometimes and I know George clearly works very hard to find tunes and anyone who does that needs credit where credit is due.

Sometimes it's very easy for people (not talkin about you here either) to assume that if someone has some of the big tunes of the moment that they have bought them for one reason (Ego!) and not because they thought as a collector "F**K thats good and want to get one..

Whatever anyone thinks or how much they might pay for records, people like Butch & Dyson work incredibly f**king hard looking for records and even if they don't do they should be well within their rights to blow their own trumpet..

Maybe the problem is that people want something new but give it to them and all of a sudden "oh are people still playing this?" after a short period and that is maybe that people can gain access to hearing them via the internet once a copy surfaces via the internet..

Any way am I on the right thread still??

You see. There's another one who doesn't gig anywhere near enough. What is it with these guys? No bloody work ethic. It'd be easier just to go round to Steve's shed rather than trying to actually catch him at a gig!

Maybe that's the future? Since Butch and Stevie G don't seem so keen on driving hundreds of miles and playing multiple venues every week, then let the punters come to them. Brilliant idea Ian!

"You are cordially invited for an evening of special listening pleasure in Butch's living room. From the comfort of his armchair Butch will play from his very, very exclusive triple A rated personal favourites box which will include several 'never previously played out' gems, his 'home-only one-offs' and 'the secret living room sound of the month". Just 2 x £500 tickets left folks, so don't delay!

or

"Exclusive! We are down to the final 2 x V.I.P. tickets left for the November date for "Steve G's Secret Shed". This heavily sold-out monthly event includes Steve showing his label runs and his extensive alphabetical and colour-coded filing system from the comfort of his own shed". A mere snip @ £750.

Do these guys have agents?

Have to say this one of the funnys quotes i`ve seen on here for ages .Your imagination Ian is very good...

For me Steve G. is very underated,every time i`ve heard him play out,always puts me onto tunes that take a bloody entity to find .When is the tickets for sale for shed night out

Bob Crosby and Steve Plumb are 2 more that always pull out a few nuggets has well

breaking records ? most djs havent the passion or balls to find there own to try out imo.........any dj that buys or plays only well known 45s , of any value is buying just to get bookings , please the crowd etc .. ..and if they dont play out what there buying for themselves......well... i dont get that at all

.........the others PLEEEEEEZE keep

finding something ............anything .....FUNK........ R&B ...ISLAND SOUL .........ANYTHING ....DIFFERANT ........why

go out to listen to records you have been listening to all week at home ???????????...........open them lugholes people ....regards, ez .............and yes im stayin in tonight and im bored :D .btw...........thanks to the move on crew and bidds lifeline etc and likeminded folk who do do as i say!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited February 12, 201114 yr by ezzie brown

Wow. Unbelievable. I've actually received PM's from people who would be happy to pay a fortune for a night in Butch's living room or Steve's shed. I've already kinda sold about 6 tickets..............

I think the events could even go bi-monthly...............

Ian D

Of course.........it,s called over exposure,it matters not how good the tunes are if you dj anywhere and everywhere (and by god some will dj in a chicken shed in biafra) every week .....even the best of dj sets will become boring it stands to reason.......butch probably had a good take on this from early on..........and he was spot on...........whereas ted m dj,s all over and his sets do nothing for me (lack of the imagination i,ve spoken of, not rare tunes) this is not a dig at ted merely a personal observation. pebby gagcock

chicken sheds in biafra got no chickens left to listen... ......terry mate ., i would give up on it all , but im a stubborn git , ............ez

Edited February 12, 201114 yr by ezzie brown

These days I am firmly ensconced in my R&B pigeonhole, and don't venture out into the 'Northern' scene often.

If I did, Butch would be the man I'd travel to hear. For me, he has the ability to bring back those feelings of anticipation and excitement that made the scene what it was in the early days.

As for DJs stampeding to get hold of his tunes, my preference is for those djs that turn up with a box of records that reflect their own taste.

hi stevie...as someone who has inclined to move out of the R&B scene to northern again of late , can i ask who is finding something differant to pull me

back to that part of the scene????, , not just newcomers discovering and enjoying the same sounds i was introduded to and also enjoyed 8 or so years ago,regards , ezzie

george is playing a lot of deep funk to the northern crowd.

I think a lot of what I hear called funk @ northern night/ nighters is basically four to the floor northern with a wah wah guitar on it, certainly doesnt sound a lot like the jb's or bobby byrd to me, especially in terms of how you can dance to it.

i'm still a big fan of mid tempo and it deserves it time on the turntables. I don't agree with the arguement that music has to be uptempo all night to keep the place jumping. A set of brilliant mid tempo keeps me dancing just as much as the good uptempo.

Variety is the key, some quality slower sides are essential for sure.

george is playing a lot of deep funk to the northern crowd.

I think a lot of what I hear called funk @ northern night/ nighters is basically four to the floor northern with a wah wah guitar on it, certainly doesnt sound a lot like the jb's or bobby byrd to me, especially in terms of how you can dance to it.

i'm still a big fan of mid tempo and it deserves it time on the turntables. I don't agree with the arguement that music has to be uptempo all night to keep the place jumping. A set of brilliant mid tempo keeps me dancing just as much as the good uptempo.

Variety is the key, some quality slower sides are essential for sure.

george is playing a lot of deep funk to the northern crowd. It was bound to happen one day as the deep funk scene is basically ended so good luck to him.

I am hearing records I like that I didn';t previosuly know which is what its all about.

he either joined the northern rare soul scene or listenend to his funk with 3 other people round his house.

but all this funky norethern just lately is getting a bit out of hand saeems every man and his dog is jumping on it.

i'm still a big fan of mid tempo and it deserves it time on the turntables. I don't agree with the arguement that music has to be uptempo all night to keep the place jumping. A set of brilliant mid tempo keeps me dancing just as much as the good uptempo.

another guy I love to hear DJ is sean hampsey. I'm sure a few tunes now are starting to get the tag of "just soul" tunes.

Agree totally

Personally, I like to hear a mix, not just across a night - that should be a given, surely - but also across a set. The best dj's have tended, IMHO anyway, to be those who could cut and paste different tempos, genres etc and find the right records to bridge the gaps and for the floor at any given time.

Any clown can play an hour of one genre and most of us tend to favour one over others, although most are probably more or less eclectic outside the main stuff, in collecting records I suspect. However, very few are able to draw on the depth of collection to cover a number of bases and/or, if they do, to make best use of it. If you're dj-ing regularly at different venues I'd think that'd be prerequisite wouldn't it?

For me, where breaking sounds is concerned, promoters are just as important as dj's, especially these days. Those who put events on that I want to go to and who will facilitate folk trying to push boundaries tend:

- to book only djs who they think can cut the mustard at their night: i.e. not their mates, not half-arsed promoters / wanabee djs, not clowns with no records or a box full of expensive records (simply because they're expensive);

- to plan ahead in terms of trying to strike a good balance across the night;

- keep tabs on who is playing what and how it's going down;

- tell prospective punters exactly what they can expect on the night.

Similarly, any self-respecting dj will turn a spot down if they ain't got the tackle for that particular night. If all that doesn't happen it all becomes a bit of a lottery I reckon. Don't envy anyone trying to promote and keep it fresh at the mo though.

I can't imagine how much organising goes into a multi-room event, not to mention the outlay involved in terms of staff, equipment and a whole raft of djs. Maybe if ... ... main room crowds had more eclectic taste and, gulp (tin hat on), genuine passion for soul music and the scene as opposed to 'their' bit of it and ... ... (tin hat again) if only those who had the records and skill to dj were asked to the whole thing would be less fragmented, easier to promote and more enjoyable? It would also make it easier to break newer tunes in main rooms I think.

Obviously, some will disagree for whatever reason; fair enough, just my thoughts. I honestly do think that punters and would-be djs have it far too easy though these days and that these are primary reasons for things standing still all too often?

Mine's the brown leather safari one ...

Edited February 12, 201114 yr by PhilT

hi stevie...as someone who has inclined to move out of the R&B scene to northern again of late , can i ask who is finding something differant to pull me

back to that part of the scene????, , not just newcomers discovering and enjoying the same sounds i was introduded to and also enjoyed 8 or so years ago,regards , ezzie

Hi Ezz - Give the Rhythm Shack a try reminds me so much of what the Soulful Shack used to be like...

Hi Ezz - Give the Rhythm Shack a try reminds me so much of what the Soulful Shack used to be like...

The only shack in town is Stevie G's shed. Tickets going fast. Might have to put the last few up for auction...............

Ian D

Well mr D as someone who has left the scene and came back but goes to all sorts of nights to hear all sorts of music, i believe the heady days of mass exposure and quick turnover play lists are long gone, as for breaking new sounds to the masses there aint that many venues that can do it as they dont get the volume but thats where cd,s net radio and internet come in ,people can hear but cannot own so i think this is the only way to break a new tune to the masses but then if its truly rare you wont hear it played out at many venues so round peg square hole , although not sure about your 90% versus 10% ratio there are 2 or 3 different kind of beast out there and you just cant take somebody from an era and give them something new and expect them to like it . they wont. never have and never will, and thats nowt new is it wigan versus mecca etc but at that time you had less choice and they were the places to be , where is the equivelent now ? radcliff. lifeline, where else ? loads of smaller clubs with a diversity and split fractions so healthy in its own right but finance and life style dictates that there will never be days like the days gone by, everybodys older and the average age seems to be mid 40ts at least lol so it is what it is just enjoy it while its there, let the 10% go to venues that cater and be delighted by the quality of newer sounds played and let the others be happy listening to a sound that evokes memories and nostalgia, youve asked some gr8 questions Ian but i dont think anybody can truly answer them. Excuse my ignorance but names like colin curtis ian levine pete haig richard searling brian rae russ winstanley dave evison etc etc just rolled of the tongue nowadays how many do the same ? so many great dj,s but not playing to the masses they did years ago, agree on the andy and butch but many others who dont get the credit , just keep the faith and be happy, regards charlie

As part of the Rhythm Shack team, Ezzie, i would second that movement. In all honesty....If you would have heard the Stuff Denbo played that night.It would have been back to church for you sir.

As part of the Rhythm Shack team, Ezzie, i would second that movement. In all honesty....If you would have heard the Stuff Denbo played that night.It would have been back to church for you sir.

.......AND ALSO REPLYING TO STEVIE ....................been meaning to come up ..always enjoyed your do's mike , sadly many members of the r&b early soul scene failed to support you and longy and there are far to

many promoters of small room events competing against each other for a very small crowd of enthusiasts these days. you know the score.. ......also revolving dj line ups , buggins turn etc . ........all the best, ezzie

Edited February 13, 201114 yr by ezzie brown

If the figures are correct and for the sake of argument let's say they are, if 90% of the northern soul fraternity aren't worried about the discovery of new sounds, how much importance can be placed upon it? When I was going regularly, and admittedly it's been 2 years since that was the situation, I liked to hear new sounds, but ones that reflected what northern soul was. It's become increasingly diversified, particularly over the last 10 years, and I would worry that was more in the name of rarity than quality. I'm not saying there's nothing decent being discovered, Margaret Little isn't bad, but compare the first time you heard that to the first time you heard Too darn soulful (or any of another 100 that could be named) which comes out on top?

Winnie

To answer this properly you have to agree what is a) a new tune, b) what is impact and c) what is influence.

Joan has already made the point very well on what is 'new'

The case could be made that whatever Eddie Edmundson chooses to 'break' at 'Soul In The Sun' has an instant impact / influence in terms of audience not only as some of them DJ at local dos but also as they are punters all over the country and so both seek and play these tunes everywhere.

In one sense that makes him the most influential DJ today.

I sense that isn't where the question was aimed and would find it hard personally to waver from the Andy Dyson, Butch and Sam Sam trio. But most of us are at least trying to find the next big thing aren't we?

I can't pay thousands or even the high hundreds for records really but finding a bargain usually means finding stuff few people are looking for or even know.

As hard as that is; its simple compared to getting it exposed to the right audience with enough frequency to get the actual record the credit it deserves whether its a total unknown or just one thats been forgotten by most.

I'm sure most of us want the record to be appreciated and have impact in its own right rather than to bask in the reflected glory of the artists that did the work.

Edited February 13, 201114 yr by ged parker

Hi Joan, Not a crisicism of the more funky edged stuff or indeed George as we need some variation sometimes and I know George clearly works very hard to find tunes and anyone who does that needs credit where credit is due.

Sometimes it's very easy for people (not talkin about you here either) to assume that if someone has some of the big tunes of the moment that they have bought them for one reason (Ego!) and not because they thought as a collector "F**K thats good and want to get one..

Whatever anyone thinks or how much they might pay for records, people like Butch & Dyson work incredibly f**king hard looking for records and even if they don't do they should be well within their rights to blow their own trumpet..

Maybe the problem is that people want something new but give it to them and all of a sudden "oh are people still playing this?" after a short period and that is maybe that people can gain access to hearing them via the internet once a copy surfaces via the internet..

Any way am I on the right thread still??

Hi Kitch.

I didn't think for one minute you were criticising George. I wasn't either. He is so passionate about his music which is what it is all about surely.

The majority may not to be to my taste but that is not to say I do not listen or appreciate what he loves about them. By the same token, other people love what he is playing. Like I said, I am but one person in a hall full of people and if the dance floor is full of happy dancing people that is job done in my book!

As for your comment about buying big tunes as an ego thing? I have never and would never say Butch and Andy are guilty of that. Jeez, have you banged your head or summat

Again Joan, Not a comment directed at you. Just a general comment that seems to do the rounds..

Again Joan, Not a comment directed at you. Just a general comment that seems to do the rounds..

Ok.

I honestly thought everybody bought records simply because they loved them. But I know people who have bought big ticket tunes just for DJing - something I can't understand.

need

Ok.

I honestly thought everybody bought records simply because they loved them. But I know people who have bought big ticket tunes just for DJing - something I can't understand.

in the past i bought records to dj with...any dj will have done this ..even though you may not be 100% happy with it...if its poplar there is a good reason, not with a big ticket item though....i got offered loads of stuff that i wouldn't give turntabletime to....... need to sort this space bar out

Edited February 13, 201114 yr by JIM BARRY

in the past i bought records to dj with...any dj will have done this ..even though you may not be 100% happy with it...if its poplar there is a good reason, not with a big ticket item though....i got offered loads of stuff that i wouldn't give turntabletime to.......

Not me

I have never bought a record I don't love.