It's a question I'm curious about.

I think the general concensus on here, is that generally the most-rated DJ's on the Northern Soul scene are the guys that play authentic original copies of highly rare records, both known and unknown. This applies to both current rare and popular oldies DJ's - in other words, right across the spectrum of the whole scene.

So, accepting the philosophy that in order to become a top Northern Soul DJ these days in pretty much all areas of the scene, one needs to have a large box full of rare originals worth tens of thousands of pounds, then doesn't that suggest that the scene is pre-disposed to those with a huge amount of disposable income?

I'm long, long gone from the cutting edge of rare record collecting these days but I keep an eye on things and occasionally get lucky every so often, so obviously I keep an eye on current prices and generally end up weeping LOL.

If I were to re-create the same 200 count box that cost me less than £300 in 1975, it would cost me a minimum of £30K now and probably nearer £50K. If I , included my overall collection at the time into the equation, then we'd be talking circa £200K at todays prices (mainly 'cos I had all the 70's stuff that's now off the scale).

So obviously I've thought about this and figured out that there's a massive amount of difference between the passionate Northern Soul DJ's of the 1970's and the passionate Northern Soul DJ's of today.

Without a doubt, I personally 100% rode the route of enjoying and playing super-rare records that no one else had, and naturally, a certain amount of ego was involved. But records were relatively cheap back then and most aspiring DJ's were beavering away getting their own choices together well within most people's disposable income levels. So the path towards becoming a popular Northern Soul DJ back then somehow seemed a bit more organic in that virtually anyone could get within reach of the top guys providing they had the right taste and made smart buying choices. It didn't really start becoming a money-lead thing until '75/'76 in my view. In fact, when it started going that route, I got the hell out of dodge and started looking for records at the source. The economics made a bit more sense.

So I guess the question is: do you need a £50K collection of originals to even get into the top-strata these days?

And, as a result, has Northern Soul become a rich man's sport?

Ian D

having nice records helps i think. i mean do people think that the likes of mick h, andy dyson & butch have stage presence..... because i dont... but then again they dont need it.always thought soul sam had it just because he is always jigging around at 70.... sorry 69 years of age. in the 80s and 90`s it was the likes of tim brown at the forefront.and he had the stage presence of a tin o baked beans............ no offence intended

dave

No. I can't think of a great technical DJ who ever made it on this scene without rare records. Can anyone?

This is one of those scenes where the DJ is only as good as the records he has in his box.

Ian D

Two words...

Rustle Wankstainly.

The greatest Northern DJ probably spent 3k in the last 5 years and its now 50k . His name is Mark Dobson

Ah, so now we're getting to the gist of things. So, over a number of years, smart buying, good analytical skills and a keen ear can redress the balance between someone who swans in with a ton of cash. Makes sense if you're playing a long game for sure.

Ian D

having nice records helps i think. i mean do people think that the likes of mick h, andy dyson & butch have stage presence..... because i dont... but then again they dont need it.always thought soul sam had it just because he is always jigging around at 70.... sorry 69 years of age. in the 80s and 90`s it was the likes of tim brown at the forefront.and he had the stage presence of a tin o baked beans............ no offence intended

dave

To the tin of beans or Brownie Dave ?

Malc

To the tin of beans or Brownie Dave ?

Malc

having nice records helps i think. i mean do people think that the likes of mick h, andy dyson & butch have stage presence..... because i dont... but then again they dont need it.always thought soul sam had it just because he is always jigging around at 70.... sorry 69 years of age. in the 80s and 90`s it was the likes of tim brown at the forefront.and he had the stage presence of a tin o baked beans............ no offence intended

dave

That's a very good point.

Len.

p.s - I think the original post was about value of records though, wasn't it?

Edited July 15, 201113 yr by LEN

Ah, so now we're getting to the gist of things. So, over a number of years, smart buying, good analytical skills and a keen ear can redress the balance between someone who swans in with a ton of cash. Makes sense if you're playing a long game for sure.

Ian D

You'd have to have huge knowledge of the Northern scene from 70's to now ( with no gaps ) . In my opinion its almost impossible to find records like the Parliaments "rainy day " now ! Maybe thats why peolple are giving up, having some tea and a hob nob and putting some deep soul on

Edited July 15, 201113 yr by Simon M

You'd have to have huge knowledge of the Northern scene from 70's to now ( with no gaps ) . In my opinion its almost impossible to find records like the Parliaments "rainy day " now !

Maybe thats why peolple are giving up, having some tea and a hob nob and putting some deep soul on

Ah, so now we're getting to the gist of things. So, over a number of years, smart buying, good analytical skills and a keen ear can redress the balance between someone who swans in with a ton of cash. Makes sense if you're playing a long game for sure.

Ian D

Well, you could have saved yourself 9 more pages of content as this is what I actually said in my very first and so far only contribution to this thread LOL

NB still a worthwhile and most of the time funny little thread though

Edited July 15, 201113 yr by Marc Forrest

....In my opinion its almost impossible to find records like the Parliaments "rainy day " now ! ...

thankfully not 100% true (although I know what you mean..) see here

eleventh post from the bottom...

Any playlists Marc ?

thankfully not 100% true (although I know what you mean..) see here

eleventh post from the bottom...

its fair to say he`s head and shoulders above anyone else.l wish i got to see the likes of him and andy dyson more often

dave

Any playlists Marc ?

..as I wrote in my last posting (in the lookback-events thread) .. I am still waiting. But most tunes in question were C/UP s or acetate anyway LOL !

its fair to say he`s head and shoulders above anyone else.l wish i got to see the likes of him and andy dyson more often

dave

cant make the 100 Club in August but it was persuasion enough (if one is needed at all..) to book for the 100 Club´s anniversary in September ...and yes, if I would be living in the UK I would "run" to every single Lifeline event to catch them both, Andy and Mark !

..as I wrote in my last posting (in the lookback-events thread) .. I am still waiting. But most tunes in question were C/UP s or acetate anyway LOL !

It still would be interesting . Did he play the Total Warmth coverup . Thats been uncoverd !!

Edited July 15, 201113 yr by Simon M

Well, you could have saved yourself 9 more pages of content as this is what I actually said in my very first and so far only contribution to this thread LOL

NB still a worthwhile and most of the time funny little thread though

LOL, I know Marc. I kinda knew the answer(s) before I posted but I thought it'd be fun to throw it open.......

Bloody annoying though. I can't find that friggin' Parliaments record in any of the local charity shops.........

Ian D

cant make the 100 Club in August but it was persuasion enough (if one is needed at all..) to book for the 100 Club´s anniversary in September ...and yes, if I would be living in the UK I would "run" to every single Lifeline event to catch them both, Andy and Mark !

thats the trouble with me.... i dont drive so i do have to run everywhere..............and at 18 stone its too far for me even to run to andy dyson`s house and he only lives 10 miles from me

dave

Edited July 15, 201113 yr by dave pinch

It still would be interesting . Did he play the Total Warmth coverup . Thats been uncoverd !!

funny you ask that...as it is the second or third last picture we have from the night showing that record. Its been a C/UP ever since 2007 so four years aint too bad in these internet days

Yeah thats why I mentioned it . uncoverd 2008 , but the stickers stayed on

Edited July 15, 201113 yr by Simon M

Yeah thats why I mentioned it . uncoverd 2008 , but the stickers stayed on

think butch always leaves the stickers on...

think butch always leaves the stickers on...

He should stop using that superglue really

LOL, I think it's pretty simple really.

The greatest DJ in the world with 3K worth of records probably wouldn't have the same appeal as the worst DJ in the world with 30K worth of records.

Does that make it any easier?

Ian D

but if you been spending that much for 30 years (10%) then that adds up and if inflation comes into it then you could have a collection worth millions

but if you been spending that much for 30 years (10%) then that adds up and if inflation comes into it then you could have a collection worth millions

Well, some of those who have managed to maintain their collections over that time without ever selling anything and have the time and space to house it all probably are sat on a fortune at current prices. Certainly Browny's collection (especially with his Deep Soul stuff) probably wouldn't have been far off that mark when it was at it's prime.

I've always found that trying to maintain even a relatively modest collection is still equivalent to a part-time job which sometimes takes over your life and house (that's if you like to have everything neatly filed). As we speak, I've around 1000 records that need filing back in which are just piled up around the house - the source of constant arguements in the Dewhirst household! Time for another clearout is coming.........

Ian D

having nice records helps i think. i mean do people think that the likes of mick h, andy dyson & butch have stage presence..... because i dont... but then again they dont need it.always thought soul sam had it just because he is always jigging around at 70.... sorry 69 years of age. in the 80s and 90`s it was the likes of tim brown at the forefront.and he had the stage presence of a tin o baked beans............ no offence intended

dave

Stage presence of a tin of beans? (Whiff of scandal there methinks)......They're all NS (?) jocks,not Shakespearean actors.

I think just being civil to people is enough - in any walk of life.

After that,everythings a bonus.

But being told to blllx by a top dj,is always something i'll savour.

Well, you could have saved yourself 9 more pages of content as this is what I actually said in my very first and so far only contribution to this thread LOL

Hello Marc, yes a number of us have been saying broadly the same thing to Ian.

Some people just don't have the stamina once they realise there is no short cut......Steve

Hello Marc, yes a number of us have been saying broadly the same thing to Ian.

Some people just don't have the stamina once they realise there is no short cut......Steve

I don't really understand what you're getting at Steve. What do you mean?

As far as I'm concerned it's am interesting thread that's all.

Ian D

Don't be so defensive Ian. Not trying to fit the cap on yer head You've confirmed you don't want to be a northern soul DJ.

All I was saying was that I have seen plenty turn up from nowheresville with a box of recently purchased expensive (and often predictable) tunes, suddenly start appearing "at an event near you", and then just as suddenly disappearing again, with their records appearing on Manny's auction site, or somewhere else a few weeks later.

Steve

The greatest Northern DJ probably spent 3k in the last 5 years and its now 50k . His name is Mark Dobson

IS THIS LENNY'S BROTHER?

Hmmm...starting out as a young Northern Soul Dj in 2011. I'd say it's a game of Snakes and ladders but with one ladder and about one hundred snakes .

ps. Bearsy no comments on "The snake" please

Edited July 16, 201113 yr by Simon M

having nice records helps i think. i mean do people think that the likes of mick h, andy dyson & butch have stage presence..... because i dont... but then again they dont need it.always thought soul sam had it just because he is always jigging around at 70.... sorry 69 years of age. in the 80s and 90`s it was the likes of tim brown at the forefront.and he had the stage presence of a tin o baked beans............ no offence intended

dave

Nice fella though TIM is...........he NEVER played a good set..........just put one record on after the other...........there is a difference

The greatest Northern DJ probably spent 3k in the last 5 years and its now 50k . His name is Mark Dobson

Hey Simon I hope your not his accountant

Dave

Hey Simon I hope your not his accountant

Dave

its kinda ironic.

if he just kept hold of those records for a few more years.it would of been a good investment & could of doubled his,sorry investers money.

Don't be so defensive Ian. Not trying to fit the cap on yer head You've confirmed you don't want to be a northern soul DJ.

All I was saying was that I have seen plenty turn up from nowheresville with a box of recently purchased expensive (and often predictable) tunes, suddenly start appearing "at an event near you", and then just as suddenly disappearing again, with their records appearing on Manny's auction site, or somewhere else a few weeks later.

Steve

Thought you may have the wrong idea that's all. I'm a little bit long in the tooth to go through all that again and my disposable income tends to go in other directions LOL....

In fact the point you allude to is one of the points of the thread. There's always been 'chequebook' DJ's who come and go but presumably they'd need a very fat chequebook to get in the game at the top level these days surely?

Ian D

Hmmm...starting out as a young Northern Soul Dj in 2011. I'd say it's a game of Snakes and ladders but with one ladder and about one hundred snakes .

A good metaphor there Simon. Plus, of course, there's no modern day equivalent to Soul Bowl is there? i.e. nowhere to buy tons of unknowns at a reasonable price..........

Ian D

A good metaphor there Simon. Plus, of course, there's no modern day equivalent to Soul Bowl is there? i.e. nowhere to buy tons of unknowns at a reasonable price..........

Ian D

Despite all the stuff I and others have said about the importance of a good ear and good taste there is no getting away from the fact that you do indeed require a good deal of disposable income to compete in the 'rare northern' arena in 2011. Whether that comes from a large income or the ability to use a large collection built up over years as sale or trade fodder is moot, but you've certainly got to have readies in some form.

Ian's point about the lack of a modern day Soul Bowl equivalent is a good one, but the fact is that there are no longer any examples of the kind of thing that used to be the Bowl's stock-in-trade: records which are good, unknown and around in quantity. The pattern was to supply djs, get the records popularised and then sell in quantity. That model no longer exists.

The internet and auction sites like ebay have changed things forever. It's fair to say that crap records have never been cheaper, but equally that good, interesting records have never been more expensive.

This week the Bernard Drake 45 appeared on ebay for the first time since it went on my wants list five or six years ago. I knew that it would go for money and was looking at records in my own collection I might have to move on in order to put in a realistic bid for it. It finally went for over 22 hundred dollars, a bit of a shock (and not actually that far short of the Nolan Chance Bunky 45 on JM's, a proven rarity of nearly forty years standing). Now the Bernard Drake 45 is not even necessarily a niter record, just a nice southern lilter, but it's an interesting illustration of the apparent market rate for a record which, while not totally unknown, is apparently missing from the collections of many of the premier record hounds.

Outside the good and expensive and the cheap and crap there is that vast reservoir of records in the middle: the known, affordable and uninspiring. The kinds of 45s that we've all bought but can't sell. My fear is that it is these kinds of records which a lot of people are using to deejay with these days and it's not good for the scene in the long run.

Apart from a few mega-collections at the very top end there is an undeniable lack of depth in the deejaying ranks. Alongside to the attributes needed to compete in 2011 there should be added a ruthless honesty about your own collection. The uncomfortable fact is that the niter scene has stagnated to the extent that it now takes years rather than weeks to break a record nationally. A lot of DJs can now get away with not adding terribly much to their sets over time. I'm sure that the top men could if they wished turn things over much more quickly but is the scene in 2011 actually geared up to accept that?

Despite all the stuff I and others have said about the importance of a good ear and good taste there is no getting away from the fact that you do indeed require a good deal of disposable income to compete in the 'rare northern' arena in 2011. Whether that comes from a large income or the ability to use a large collection built up over years as sale or trade fodder is moot, but you've certainly got to have readies in some form.

Ian's point about the lack of a modern day Soul Bowl equivalent is a good one, but the fact is that there are no longer any examples of the kind of thing that used to be the Bowl's stock-in-trade: records which are good, unknown and around in quantity. The pattern was to supply djs, get the records popularised and then sell in quantity. That model no longer exists.

The internet and auction sites like ebay have changed things forever. It's fair to say that crap records have never been cheaper, but equally that good, interesting records have never been more expensive.

This week the Bernard Drake 45 appeared on ebay for the first time since it went on my wants list five or six years ago. I knew that it would go for money and was looking at records in my own collection I might have to move on in order to put in a realistic bid for it. It finally went for over 22 hundred dollars, a bit of a shock (and not actually that far short of the Nolan Chance Bunky 45 on JM's, a proven rarity of nearly forty years standing). Now the Bernard Drake 45 is not even necessarily a niter record, just a nice southern lilter, but it's an interesting illustration of the apparent market rate for a record which, while not totally unknown, is apparently missing from the collections of many of the premier record hounds.

Outside the good and expensive and the cheap and crap there is that vast reservoir of records in the middle: the known, affordable and uninspiring. The kinds of 45s that we've all bought but can't sell. My fear is that it is these kinds of records which a lot of people are using to deejay with these days and it's not good for the scene in the long run.

Apart from a few mega-collections at the very top end there is an undeniable lack of depth in the deejaying ranks. Alongside to the attributes needed to compete in 2011 there should be added a ruthless honesty about your own collection. The uncomfortable fact is that the niter scene has stagnated to the extent that it now takes years rather than weeks to break a record nationally. A lot of DJs can now get away with not adding terribly much to their sets over time. I'm sure that the top men could if they wished turn things over much more quickly but is the scene in 2011 actually geared up to accept that?

Fantastic post Gareth and some very good points raised.

Ian D

Despite all the stuff I and others have said about the importance of a good ear and good taste there is no getting away from the fact that you do indeed require a good deal of disposable income to compete in the 'rare northern' arena in 2011. Whether that comes from a large income or the ability to use a large collection built up over years as sale or trade fodder is moot, but you've certainly got to have readies in some form.

Ian's point about the lack of a modern day Soul Bowl equivalent is a good one, but the fact is that there are no longer any examples of the kind of thing that used to be the Bowl's stock-in-trade: records which are good, unknown and around in quantity. The pattern was to supply djs, get the records popularised and then sell in quantity. That model no longer exists.

The internet and auction sites like ebay have changed things forever. It's fair to say that crap records have never been cheaper, but equally that good, interesting records have never been more expensive.

This week the Bernard Drake 45 appeared on ebay for the first time since it went on my wants list five or six years ago. I knew that it would go for money and was looking at records in my own collection I might have to move on in order to put in a realistic bid for it. It finally went for over 22 hundred dollars, a bit of a shock (and not actually that far short of the Nolan Chance Bunky 45 on JM's, a proven rarity of nearly forty years standing). Now the Bernard Drake 45 is not even necessarily a niter record, just a nice southern lilter, but it's an interesting illustration of the apparent market rate for a record which, while not totally unknown, is apparently missing from the collections of many of the premier record hounds.

Outside the good and expensive and the cheap and crap there is that vast reservoir of records in the middle: the known, affordable and uninspiring. The kinds of 45s that we've all bought but can't sell. My fear is that it is these kinds of records which a lot of people are using to deejay with these days and it's not good for the scene in the long run.

Apart from a few mega-collections at the very top end there is an undeniable lack of depth in the deejaying ranks. Alongside to the attributes needed to compete in 2011 there should be added a ruthless honesty about your own collection. The uncomfortable fact is that the niter scene has stagnated to the extent that it now takes years rather than weeks to break a record nationally. A lot of DJs can now get away with not adding terribly much to their sets over time. I'm sure that the top men could if they wished turn things over much more quickly but is the scene in 2011 actually geared up to accept that?

Hi Gareth......unless i am mistaken i think ive seen two on ebay this month and both for similair money ??

^

You're right Nev, but the interesting thing is they went for similar money. How many more will emerge now a couple of four figure auction results are achieved?

^

You're right Nev, but the interesting thing is they went for similar money. How many more will emerge now a couple of four figure auction results are achieved?

It was a vanity press of 300 to start with, Bernard hasn't got any so it depends how many got in land before Katrina hit. We'll just have to wait and see

Dave

^

Interesting information Dave. Presumably you are sorted for one.

^

You're right Nev, but the interesting thing is they went for similar money. How many more will emerge now a couple of four figure auction results are achieved?

the one that just finished actually went for nearly $1000 more nev, was hoping it would go for a lot less myself, guess i'll have to forget about upgrading

great post gareth

^

Interesting information Dave. Presumably you are sorted for one.

No Mate! A case of the old Mother Hubbards

Edited July 16, 201113 yr by Louise

^

You're right Nev, but the interesting thing is they went for similar money. How many more will emerge now a couple of four figure auction results are achieved?

A lot of good points raised in your previous post.RE: "records not being good enough".It could be that the intentions are good,and some dj's may go out on a limb,to try out "newer" stuff to entertain, the now, more knowlegdeable punters.These sometimes bomb,sometimes they hit the spot on the night.No more than that.Anyone with any scruples will know where they stand when they get behind the decks...DJ'S KNOW THY PLACE....KNOW THE PECKING ORDER.

Creating the longevity of a tune belongs to the premier dj / collectors.Everyone else is hanging on to their coat tails.Maybe one reason a tune takes a long time to break on the nighter scene is the very fact these tunes are rare,and you have to follow a certain dj to hear them.I like it like that.

BITD these would have been booted for £2 almost straight away.

Where is there a soundbite of Bernard Drake Gareth ??

Where is there a soundbite of Bernard Drake Gareth ??

Hi Kevin you heared BOTH sides last saturday at the Hip CIty mate

Kev

the fella who ebayed the last one put two clips up here in the relevant section this week. If anything the record's actually much better than I'd remember it to be.

Kev

the fella who ebayed the last one put two clips up here in the relevant section this week. If anything the record's actually much better than I'd remember it to be.

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300575379099&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

been reading this thread all week and some very interesting points here is my opinion...

i think most of us on here know it takes more than expensive tunes to make a GOOD dj but the original question wasnt about being a good dj but about being one of the TOP djs...

so how do you decide who the TOP djs are?....deciding on good djs is easy its all down to our personal tastes..(.providing the ability to make a set and use the equipement are there which they should always be!)......expensive tunes dont come into it....one mans meat is anothers poison and all that!

so would the top djs be those who had residencys at the biggest nights?...or booked up for months in advanced at venues all over the country..the in demanders?...if so then i would say you DO need big money tunes and I will never be able to afford to be one of the top djs...checkout all their playlists(if they put them on here)..even if they played some of the great cheaper tunes out there i bet most would still be £500+.(which to me is bloody expensive!!)

please dont get me wrong ..theres no sour grapes here,i love djing ive done it for over 20 years in different scenes but know AND like my place i will carry on doing my thing hopeing people enjoy it... as much as i'd like to play bigger venues every week i understand why promoters tend to keep booking the big boys...a lot of the paying punters (most of which never post on soulsource) wanna hear the big tunes whether they actually know the value or not and be it an oldies crowd or underplayed/rare...most promoters are not in it to get rich but they still have bills to pay and dont wanna lose so maybe play safer that a lot of the djs thet promote!

so there it is right or wrong whether you agree or not..my opinion

dean

https://cgi.ebay.com/...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Thanks for the link..2 very good sides,satisfies 2 camps.Dont mind admitting first time i've heard it? Quality buy for someone.

Thanks for the link..2 very good sides,satisfies 2 camps.Dont mind admitting first time i've heard it? Quality buy for someone.

ooops, sorry, thought KevH would indicate Kevin Higham ?