Right this has been on my mind for ages and I've got to say something now, though in all honesty I can't believe I haven't said something before now.

When John Manship auctions a run of the mill title - something that usually sells on ordinary lists for £50 - but sells on the JM auction for £250 for whatever reason.

Now we all know that the record is actually only worth £50 and whoever bought it for £250 has spent way too much but that could be for various reasons for instance, it could be his all time favourite record and he would spend anything to get it. That's not the point.

The point is, why do other people who have the record then come straight on here and try to sell their own copies for the same amount of money as John Manship got for it, knowing that it's only worth £50? Do they then cross out the price in their price guide and replace with with £250?

I've seen it time and time again when a common record sells for big money, they come on here asking the same and usually go away having had to reduce the item four times before they sold it.

These auctions are one offs and mean nothing when it comes to the real value of a record.

Shame people can't remember this.

THIS POST IS NOT AIMED AT ANY ONE PERSON SELLING ANY RECORDS ON SOUL SOURCE AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME BEFORE ANYONE STARTS

Edited September 20, 201113 yr by Pete S

I thought the 7 inch with PS was the Drizabone to have? Anyway I sold one for £200 once on ebay

I hope I have still got one then! I've sold a lot of stuff though so it might have gone.

I think the album mix on the double 12 is a slightly different version to the other two and at the time it was that which was deemed to be the one to have - it could all have been urban myth though. I've definitely still got the double, if I have the single I'll play them both and see if my cloth ears can discern any difference.

Records don't always revert to a lower price; a couple of examples are:

Dottie and Millie which was regularly on lists for £30 to £50 (and I kept missing it!) then suddenly became a £100 then £150 tune.

The Trends (TFOLL) was also on lists for £70 to £100 (which I also kept missing!!), then a man with red hair (allegedly) paid somebody £300 for one and that became the price and continued to go up as it became more difficult to get hold of.

Somebody mentioned Jeanette on Ramsel which was evidently a really common and cheap record, but it rarely surfaces now, and I sold my Marva Lee because I couldn't believe people were paying a ton for it when it was in everyone's sales box when I bought it for 15 - it has never come down again.

It is so difficult to price a record because of the "in demand" element - at any time a record can rocket in value. I'm going to cite my worst sale ever which was the Casualeers on Roulette demo which sat in my sales box for well over a year at .......£20 The person that eventually bought it (and couldn't get it out of the box quick enough) in the very early 2000's started playing it in his set, it quickly ballooned in price and it eventually appeared in JM's guide in 2008 at £200.

What was it really worth at the time I sold it?

Some things do drop down again though because they turn out to be not as rare as the "in demand" price suggests. Somebody mentioned Drizabone (as an example of played out sh*te - alongside Right Track! ) in another thread, I remember the buzz when this started getting played and also that there were a few versions. The double 12" with the album mix was deemed the one to have; there was a single 12" that had a slightly different version on it and a 7" pic sleeve that was the same as the single 12". I found three of the 7" singles which fitted in DJ boxes and sold one for £70 and one for £100 as it went up, I kept one too. I've still got the double 12 and I think I have a single, but what price is that now? £25 quid?

How does anyone price records but on how they have sold before and what you think they might sell for?

If something is "in demand" an auction is the probably the best way to determine the price - but at that time and to that buyer. After that the buyer has got one so maybe people will pay the same or maybe they won't.

Funny old game.

Understand what your saying, but my comment was aimed to records that achieve freakish prices at auction, rather than records deemed common once, but command a higher price now as they are simply not available

Edited September 21, 201113 yr by julesp1905

I hope I have still got one then! I've sold a lot of stuff though so it might have gone.

I think the album mix on the double 12 is a slightly different version to the other two and at the time it was that which was deemed to be the one to have - it could all have been urban myth though. I've definitely still got the double, if I have the single I'll play them both and see if my cloth ears can discern any difference.

Got the stock 12" version, 99p out of HMV on the day of release

I know, before reading that I had no idea I desperately needed a Direction label demo of any description

Pete,its obvious the hype masterpiece descriptions are intended to whip up a frenzy of excitement,during which those lacking in brain neurons disregard reality and fall headlong into the ovenchip world of fantasy marketing

I often wonder why ebay auctions end on relatively minor amounts compared to an ovenchip one

Ok here's a gas......yesterday evening a mate from Scarborough rang and we got talking about just that point,what would be the finishing prices compared to ebay versus ovenchip on these as an example :

Silky Hargraves

Kenny Smith

Startones

Shadows

Kenny Wells

T.J.Williams

Servicemen

Or any others you care to name in particular ? How important to a collector is "mint" unplayed condition ?

And finally,fwiw,just how rare is the High Keys on an issue ? By comparison,I've had,like everyone else,at least a dozen demo's and never managed more than £2 tops,more usually 50p was a struggle......

I think 3 records,of rarity,stand out in particular,Larry Clinton issue,Frank Beverly yellow Rouser,and The Prophets on Shrine issue,what would they fetch on ovenchip ?

Rob.

And what about those descriptions-`kinell,they really are literary masterpieces designed to eke out the last few quid from the desperate and needy.

There's a term for those descriptions. 'Sizzle'!

You & I are the desperate & needy. You know that right?

Absolutely. And it was very rare at the time but that's when rare was £15 LOL (bear in mind I bought my Eula Cooper original for £2 back then). But why would a hairdresser want to pay so much for a record he'd never even heard? He had no idea what Northern Soul was either.

Ian D

Maybe he'd made a mistake and meant to buy "Tinted Love."

Absolutely. And it was very rare at the time but that's when rare was £15 LOL (bear in mind I bought my Eula Cooper original for £2 back then). But why would a hairdresser want to pay so much for a record he'd never even heard? He had no idea what Northern Soul was either.

Ian D

A hairdresser? Maybe he thought it was a rare Danny Larue...........

A hairdresser? Maybe he thought it was a rare Danny Larue...........

And what a drag when he found out it wasn't!

There's a term for those descriptions. 'Sizzle'!

You & I are the desperate & needy. You know that right?

some new "sizzzle" to consider follow this link https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/index.php/auction/latest

some new "sizzzle" to consider follow this link https://www.raresoulm.../auction/latest

Nice one Cyril!

Drizabone - Preasure 45 - early 9ts Boxes full for literally a couple of quid each, brand spanking new in PS could hardly give em away.

Barabara Lynn - Movin on a Groove/Trying to Love Two - Uptown Down South secret sounds for years before a certain DJ dropped it at the Ritz 'Rarest Of the Rare' Nighter after seeing me ram the flooor with it at Bretby, Keith Woon played it out, at Abshott, I saw the potential & was buying them from Soul Bowl at a fiver each, pretty much as many as you wanted really.

Constellations - IDKAY Keith Williams at Soul Seacer £15 each., early 9ts.

Dottie & Millie - £10 all day long, again early 9ts

Big Daddy Rogers - Soul Bowl £15 each, they were selling for £50 else where mind.

Soul Twins - on Sable, Anglo American front page focus £10

Nancy Butts - Lonely, Guy was still playing this out ccasionally covered up when boxes full turned up at the 100 Club from a shop in Southend tenner each.......

Loads n loads...........buy what you like at the right price, a good record is always a good record regardless f price.

Russ

JM has a Nick Allen- Hard way to go (walas) on his auction site, WHY?, its a £40-£60 record, tops! (IMO)

ENDED AT £159

ENDED AT £159

Like I said earlier whoever bought this could have had one for £28 on ebay last week - Numpty

ENDED AT £159

bloody hell......

Like I said earlier whoever bought this could have had one for £28 on ebay last week - Numpty

Seem to remember it going for less,a year or two ago.£10 - £15...Who had that i wonder?

Seem to remember it going for less,a year or two ago.£10 - £15...Who had that i wonder?

I think the last one I had was £20. Hard Way To Sell.

mines still up for £60,had about 7 copies recently

Edited September 21, 201113 yr by soulsalmon

Maybe he'd made a mistake and meant to buy "Tinted Love."

You should have seen him. Very camp effiminate bizarre type. He probably saw a photo of Lada Edmund Jr and built a shrine to her for all I know.

Bizarre.

And what exactly was he doing with the record alone in the kitchen anyway? Fr*ggin' weirdo.

Ian D

some new "sizzzle" to consider follow this link https://www.raresoulm.../auction/latest

Auctions are exciting! It's only fair that people pay for the sizzle and bragging rights to saying "I got outbid" or "I could have had it if I'd REALLY wanted it"...............

What's Dennis Edwards these days? £2.5-3K or thereabouts I wonder....?

Ian D .

Auctions are exciting! It's only fair that people pay for the sizzle and bragging rights to saying "I got outbid" or "I could have had it if I'd REALLY wanted it"...............

What's Dennis Edwards these days? £2.5-3K or thereabouts I wonder....?

Ian D .

Half that...

===================================================================================================

'Er....sorry that's not true either....some of the prices on SS are ridiculous. Only consistent bargain seller is Pete S from what I see....apologies to others I may not have spotted.

some of the prices yes but there are plenty, no, loads of decent records at decent prices and plenty of reasonable, cheap and reliable dealers, you should look at little harder you might spot them.

Half that...

Yeah but working on the basis that you're generally half the price of everyone else, then that'll be bang on for an auction then?

Ian D

Edited September 21, 201113 yr by Ian Dewhirst

And just to balance out the fact that not all John's auction go for daft money.............I put summat up with him the other month and it went for a quarter of what i was expecting..................so bargains are still around, even on JM's auctions!

Like I said earlier whoever bought this could have had one for £28 on ebay last week - Numpty

My current copy (I've had several over the years since Keb first played it at Stafford), was a gift from a US dealer after I had been round his house & bought s few bits..........

Best Russ

Seem to remember it going for less,a year or two ago.£10 - £15...Who had that i wonder?

Interesting how the Nick Allen that has been on Craig Moerer's for weeks @ $75 was snapped up last night

What's Dennis Edwards these days? £2.5-3K or thereabouts I wonder....?

Ian D .

Is it your copy Ian? Are you "talking" the price up

Yeah but working on the basis that you're generally half the price of everyone else, then that'll be bang on for an auction then?

Ian D

No I'm serious, 1200-1500, don't think Chalky (from Dudley) got 1000 for his last year

No I'm serious, 1200-1500, don't think Chalky (from Dudley) got 1000 for his last year

I don't like the record, and it definately ain't worth 3k!

Is it your copy Ian? Are you "talking" the price up

Nah. It's one of the few that I knew about when it first turned up. I don't know how many have come through since. I think ALL the current prices are nuts by the way. Give it another 5 years and they'll all come down to a reasonable level. It's inevitable IMO. I also think Pete's is much more attuned to the real values then most, probably 'cos he wants a quicker turnaround rather than, say John, who is bound to market and promote his stock better because of his position in the food chain. 'Nout wrong with either approach IMO....

Ian D

Stupidity! There's only one John Manship.

You can't just assumptively ride on the coat-tails of a 30 year reputation for immaculate vinyl & labels. That's what's always been worth the money.

simsy, i couldnt have said it better myself, trust and thirty five years dealing with........... what else would you want. some one got a great bargain on the cautions, mine cost 1400 quid, but probably one of the first to have a stunning mint copy (imh). i honestly dont see the issue here, personally, the way i go about it is if i want it i just get it, whatever the price coz in many instances you cant be sure when another will appear, susan barrett as an example. believe me when i say i have had some fantastic bargains and i bet a few people on here have to, on the other hand a nabay cost my boots n all. i was on the susan barret, 400 it went for 600, had i known i would have gone for it that bad. as for selling on here, some of the crap pm`s i recieved will certainly stop me doing that again, and as for buying, i got done for a very very rare record from someone on this site, they know who they are, then accused of sinister doings. i also got done in the danny moore job lot by what i would now consider, a mediocre dealer as for the johnny on the spot, i feel quite insulted as an owner and im sure some other owners would feel the same. it is a truly fantastic record and worth whatever anyone wll pay.

at the end of the day as SIMSY says quality and reputations sell everything from a car to a cradle, supply and demand are the drivers. if you want it get it, sometimes the butter spreads easy, other times you have to work with it, things go your way, sometimes they dont....... karma is the word im looking for...thats the secret................... on the other hand has anyone got a copy of deep dark secret for 10 quid, yehhhh, lovin it and laffing loads]

simsy, i couldnt have said it better myself, trust and thirty five years dealing with........... what else would you want. some one got a great bargain on the cautions, mine cost 1400 quid, but probably one of the first to have a stunning mint copy (imh). i honestly dont see the issue here, personally, the way i go about it is if i want it i just get it, whatever the price coz in many instances you cant be sure when another will appear, susan barrett as an example. believe me when i say i have had some fantastic bargains and i bet a few people on here have to, on the other hand a nabay cost my boots n all. i was on the susan barret, 400 it went for 600, had i known i would have gone for it that bad. as for selling on here, some of the crap pm`s i recieved will certainly stop me doing that again, and as for buying, i got done for a very very rare record from someone on this site, they know who they are, then accused of sinister doings. i also got done in the danny moore job lot by what i would now consider, a mediocre dealer as for the johnny on the spot, i feel quite insulted as an owner and im sure some other owners would feel the same. it is a truly fantastic record and worth whatever anyone wll pay.

at the end of the day as SIMSY says quality and reputations sell everything from a car to a cradle, supply and demand are the drivers. if you want it get it, sometimes the butter spreads easy, other times you have to work with it, things go your way, sometimes they dont....... karma is the word im looking for...thats the secret................... on the other hand has anyone got a copy of deep dark secret for 10 quid, yehhhh, lovin it and laffing loads]

See this is where it just goes mental - Susan Barrett, presume you are talking about a black RCA copy, £200 sensible price, £300 tops, £400 is a joke and £600 is farcial.

just because you love Johnny On The Spot, that doesn't hide the fact that copies have turned up, the price has gone down and it was only mediocre in the first place.

Going by the records you're talking about, you don't have to worry about the pennies, lots of others do though and the original question was whether it's right to suddenly bump up the price of something just because a nutcase pays twice it's true value in an auction.

* Mick Smith told me to say that now that Susan Barrett is worth £600 apparently, he'll sell his for £500.

Edited September 22, 201113 yr by Pete S

Johnny on the Spot ffs? The other side ten times better - rock 'ard Detroit.

Thinking about it, there could be several levels of rare soul collectors.

In the mainsteam music biz we have different price levels for different releases, hence Backbeats @ £5, Harmless/Disco Discharge @ £7 and Mixology/Weekender @ £10 or thereabouts, so it seems reasonable to assume that some of the same rules apply to rare record dealing.

People who are looking for a bargain will happily spend hours and hours trawling e-bay and lists until they finally find a goody.

Other people may not have that kind of time to spare, so they'll probably be happy enough to look at the lists they subscribe to and pay a premium because it's easier and less time consuming.

And then there's another strata who have zero time but tons of money who really don't mind paying well over the odds to cut to the quick. Just like the rest of life really.

Then there's that rarified strata of Northern Soul mad investment bankers who have a spare £100K on account at John's with instructions to always top the last bid. Hey, what's a grand here or there.....?

Ian D

Edited September 22, 201113 yr by Ian Dewhirst

Right this has been on my mind for ages and I've got to say something now, though in all honesty I can't believe I haven't said something before now.

When John Manship auctions a run of the mill title - something that usually sells on ordinary lists for £50 - but sells on the JM auction for £250 for whatever reason.

Now we all know that the record is actually only worth £50 and whoever bought it for £250 has spent way too much but that could be for various reasons for instance, it could be his all time favourite record and he would spend anything to get it. That's not the point.

The point is, why do other people who have the record then come straight on here and try to sell their own copies for the same amount of money as John Manship got for it, knowing that it's only worth £50? Do they then cross out the price in their price guide and replace with with £250?

I've seen it time and time again when a common record sells for big money, they come on here asking the same and usually go away having had to reduce the item four times before they sold it.

These auctions are one offs and mean nothing when it comes to the real value of a record.

Shame people can't remember this.

THIS POST IS NOT AIMED AT ANY ONE PERSON SELLING ANY RECORDS ON SOUL SOURCE AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME BEFORE ANYONE STARTS

I totally agree Pete,but your a business man.If somebody offers you 5x the price for a record you are not

going to say no..Manships auctions are amazing.I am sure most his stuff goes abroad.

hi.....sold all my northern, oldies .... just got r&b etc for sale, but not trying at mo due to depressed prices except for "in vogue " tunes for aspiring djs,........... thats the ones the real djs [im not one of them as you know] are selling.. ...........prices are really silly imo , either cheap as chips or double what i would ask, i dont always know that when im selling . ..not bothered if it goes ...........but i do research prices when im buyin ...some of the info is misleading..im told by one guy a rare record is a cheapie cos its only been on popsike twice, cheap, guess who bought both... ......yep not him.....me .......so .............buy when your sure of a bargain, .............sell for profit or to get rid.or to a buddie for love .....................reckon im learning, cost me a few quid but its the best way.and its fun.. .....ez

ENDED AT £159

Gave my spare to cruisey at Wilton a few years ago for nowt,

Wonder if can get it back lol