We've all seen the comments about certain auction results over the last few weeks. It brought to my mind some of the campaigns to reduce petrol prices by not buying at certain petrol stations in an attempt to increase competition.

Some records seem to command a high price through tradition rather than reality. In short, two punters fight to obtain a 'rare record' and are prepared to pay whatever that record has historically sold for. They therefore perpetuate the myth that something is worth a high price when in reality it is just those two punters who have kept the price up. How many times do SS'ers win an eBay auction and see that if it had not been for just one other bidder then they would have won the auction for a good deal less??? I've been there on several occasions and I know I've been 'the other punter' for other eBay winners.

What if we all stood back for a while and let the market stagnate. Wouldn't that introduce a degree of realism into proceedings?

Perhaps the desire to get a so-called bargain by many would defeat this rationale....I think it's worth a ponder though.

Just my thoughts.

Edited June 23, 201212 yr by Brooky

I think the price guides do a lot of what you say -- they end up setting the price rather than mirroring it.

The records that intrigue me are the 'difficult to obtain' category, which some confuse with rarity. These are the records that will plummet in value during the next decade. The truly 'rare' records will always command a premium IMO.

I think the price guides do a lot of what you say -- they end up setting the price rather than mirroring it.

Would you trust a used car price guide compiled by a used car dealer?

What if we all stood back for a while and let the market stagnate. Wouldn't that introduce a degree of realism into proceedings?

Might be ok for collectors but thats difficult to do that if you are DJ'ing regularly. The DJ's I know are buying new tunes constantly in order to maintain a freshness to their sets.

You'd think the market would have stagnated anyway, as cash is tighter these days. But it hasn't.

Would you trust a used car price guide compiled by a used car dealer?

When I was in Seattle a few years ago we went to this record shop and while there was nothing of real note in there, there were a couple of bits I wanted. Now let me tell you, they were not sleeved and while they played ok, they were in pretty bad shape over all. Anyway, I took them to the counter where the guy proceeded to slowly produce Manship's guide from under the counter (like it was his secret weapon) and check the values. He then went on to ask for the full amount stated in the book. Did I say the records looked like they had been skated on?

Fair to say all of us left without buying anything.

The records that intrigue me are the 'difficult to obtain' category, which some confuse with rarity. These are the records that will plummet in value during the next decade. The truly 'rare' records will always command a premium IMO.

not entirely sure this is true. Some of the truly "rare" records probably suffer from their own rarity.

Also the discoveries and fresh struff tends to be turned up by those with the best knowledge. What would happen if they continually struggle to selll the stuff they spend a long time researching and finding.

The whole, scene may suffer.....

You have to remember that Johns auction emailers are sent to many thousands of potential buyers. So the chance of two people being keen to bid high on a redord is high.

Trophy pieces are always going to go for big ticket for all sorts of reasons, sentimentality, to complete a label collection, or heaven forbid... For a DJ to pull the trigger during a set.

Rare does not mean big money though. Im hunting for one 45 and I can only find info on one previous sale so I presume its pretty hard. But it sold for less than £30.

A good maxim to always remember is whilst dealing with a record dealer when he,s selling it..."it,s rare as an honest politician"...when he,s buying it...."it,s as common as a dishonest comedian"....... buy em for the right reason ...thats enough tezza

I just love the record dealers for it though - If you've never felt you've been completely shafted by a record dealer, you haven't lived! Lol

When I was trading anything British - "Sorry Len, American imports is what everyone wants at the minute Bud"....A few weeks later, trying to trade some American imports - "Sorry Len, British is what everyone wants at the minute Bud"

....Believe me, this has happened to me but I smile about it - I got what I wanted!

All the best,

Len.

Edited June 23, 201212 yr by LEN

...Ooops, wrong thread! lol

Edited June 23, 201212 yr by LEN

How many boxes of good quality dance tempo soul sounds do you flick through marked at ten or twenty pounds which are ignored by the buying collector which should sell for a quid or two but because johnny moonshine or maten coopel who have got the dosh to print a GUIDE say are worth 50 times more than than they were acquired for do you walk away from.......?

Would you trust a used car price guide compiled by a used car dealer?

good point, but the osborne guide is the worst one and he's not even a dealer

good point, but the osborne guide is the worst one and he's not even a dealer

The Chancellor of the Exchequer has published his own record price guide! F*ck me, our economy's in a worse mess that I thought!

Did I say the records looked like they had been skated on?

random fyi, this is why some collectors call trashed records "rinked"

Edited June 24, 201212 yr by boba

it seems that it is just a coincidence that since people have bought the guides all £2/3 records are now £5/7 , all £5 are usually £8/10 and all £7/10 tunes are for £15/20

these records are probably not anymore in demand than they ever were but alot of dealers have lots of stuff that they cant move on as they want top prices and wont reduce them

thing people should remember is that people quoting the guide price is that it contains vat so those that are not vat registered should take 20% off to start with , and the price is for mint minus condition for both label and vinyl , ( this is just about still in shop bought condition ), 99% of records on the scene are not in this condition and so the price should be reduced on a sliding scale further from the price

a vg+ condition record should be about 50 % of the book price once the vat has been removed in my opinion but try finding dealers who reduce it this much , most just knock 10 or 20 from the price

Edited June 24, 201212 yr by davidwapples

I've been thinking about the guides recently and I sort of concluded that Peter Wermelinger has the right approach with The Funk Lexicon.

Although it's not strictly a price guide (Peter warns against them in fact!) the book, does give an indication of rarity, classifying records from A (very common) to H (extremely scarce). This approach is advantageous for various reasons: it's based on rarity rather than demand, it's not tied to one particular currency and therefore avoids the problem of fluctuation exchange rates. It's also immune to the impact of inflation. The big thing for me though is that it allows you to escape the tyranny of the dreaded fixed price.

Psychologically speaking, if you only have a rough guide to the rarity of a record, it makes it easier to pay a bit more when buying a record you really want. You're aware of how much you want to pay based on availability, rather than thinking you're paying £20/30 more than the 'guide price' Equally it's easier if selling to reduce the value to what someone's prepared to pay without feeling that you're losing that £20/30.

I'm aware that the Lexicon isn't perfect. Some of the estimates of rarity are a bit out and, of course, there's always the possibility of a quantity of a specific title turning up, which will clearly affect rarity/availability. On the whole though, I find it a more satisfactory contribution to my decisions when buying and selling funk 45s and I'm really glad that there are plenty of records in the Lexicon that are either missing or hopelessly under or over valued in John Manship and Tim Brown's guides.

it seems that it is just a coincidence that since people have bought the guides all £2/3 records are now £5/7 , all £5 are usually £8/10 and all £7/10 tunes are for £15/20

these records are probably not anymore in demand than they ever were but alot of dealers have lots of stuff that they cant move on as they want top prices and wont reduce them

I go the opposite way, £15/20 tunes are £7/10 now. Then again, they usually are anyway. Whats the point of putting a record at a price when it will never sell?

I go the opposite way, £15/20 tunes are £7/10 now. Then again, they usually are anyway. Whats the point of putting a record at a price when it will never sell?

spot on pete, people can be as realistic or unrealistic as they want about prices but if they truly want to shift the product then they have to cut a reasonable deal or it aint going nowhere.its just a question of how long the £7/10 will be around when they finally have their day and become appreciated...thats WHEN the punter becomes appreciative and respective of the dealer, because the person who is still true to his sales pitch, is the one who, despite the dwindling amount of stock and the possible price rise because of a particular records exposure to the big dancefloor and universal acceptance, is willing to sell for what its true value is ( and probably has been for decades ) and not the "smoke & mirrors" of temporary overinflation. had the said tune been in limited stock years ago then you would naturally expect a higher price, but there are many £5 - 40 tunes that have floundered unreasonably as far as the intelectually minded with an appreciative ear, are concerned but the subsequent dwindling of stock and the fruition of a higher price is felt justified and rightly so...its a fine line between selling someone, something thats good and valuable and something thats just plain...valuable.

Edited June 24, 201212 yr by AGENTSMITH

None of this is meant to offend but merely an observation although I may be very wrong but kind of noticed a difference with prices at the end of the 90's start of 00's - always put it down to the return of those patrons who had strayed away from the scene for different reasons eg. to bring up family etc but had returned with more disposable income as say the kids had grown up. The records that I had always meant to pickup for £5-10 but never did due to their vast abundance (and my perhaps misguided quest - for newer, rarer sounds) have now doubled tripled...etc.... in price. When I think back to the days of Allanton Droylsden Congleton etc and the records that were there - even the first weekender at Yarmouth - but i'm sure it will be the same for guys older than me who would have seen a noticeable transition from their early days.

Also I believe one collector/dj who was paying silly prices (??) for vinyl and seemed to be easy pray for sales because money was no object and the bar price wise just kept rising steadily although he was aware that he would never get his money back if he ever decided to sell up. Don't get me wrong there are certain toons that if I had everything else and the dosh I would do same (and i'm sure we can all say the same as I believe it's human nature) although believe I would have a limit that I wouldn't cross (?!?)

A mate once made a comment on how it would be easier for him to sell a record for £20-£30 than one for £100(0) 's say just because of the economic enviroment in which we live.