I sold a record to someone the other day.

It was absolutely mint, unplayed.

I sent it in a brand new mailer, with 3 pieces of card.

I sent it the day he paid, despite him sending me an echeque which wouldn't clear for at least 5 days.

He left me feedback today, which said

" ok "

f-ck knows what it would have said if the record had been sh*t, the mailer 2nd hand and it took 5 days to arrive

You can guess what my feedback for him was...

Erm.......OK?

Must admit Pete, I do get the odd ignorant buyer on Ebay whose vocabulary doesn't extend further than 2 syllables. The way I see it is they're doing that for everyone they buy from, but they're not really deserving of a wordy feedback in return, if that's all the effort they make.

I can understand your frustration, ive had similar......some people are just arseholes full stop.

There's several levels of twats in this world:-

1) The OCD Condition Freak

This is the type of buyer who will ALWAYS find a problem with a record no matter how mint and unblemished it is. They usually preface their order with phrases like, "I am a serious collector", "I've been collecting records for 20 years" etc, etc. Several times I've sent records out which have never been played ever only to have to have them contact me complaining about condition probably in order to get an extra discount. These people probably never actually play the records but probably just like moaning. Avoid at all costs as they'll tie you up in long-winded arguments which are always a pain in the ass. The SECOND they start I always offer them a 100% refund if they send the record back which is when they generally back down.

2) The Hot-Headed Foreign Buyer With Bad Etiquette

These guys are looking for a fight from the word go. Even though everything I offer on Discogs is fixed-price only with no offers they'll still offer 50% of the price and when that hasn't worked they'll then 'forget' to add postage which will then add more stress in terms of spending time having to deal with 'em. Once the right money has finally been sorted out, they'll then start bombarding you with messages saying, "Hey Mister. Where's my record? I want refund!" even though the postal systems of the countries in question leave a lot to be desired.

3) General Congenital F*ckwits

These are the ones who can't figure out that I need paying in £ sterling rather than pesos and which will often take half a dozen messages with precise instructions to sort out. These same guys generally always moan about the postage costs to their country and accuse me of over-charging when I actually make a slight loss on most long-range destinations. They are also the type of guys who will raise a dispute if they haven't received their package within a week even though I've known it to take 6-8 weeks to reach some places.

All the above accounts for 0.8% of the hassle. The other 99.2% of customers are fine.

Ian D

Edited August 2, 201212 yr by Ian Dewhirst

Pete , i wouldnt even bother to use my finger muscles for feedback. F**k em'

at least you got some feedback as poor as it is,

what about all the people that just don't bother to send you any at all,

really pi**es me off,

joe.

There's several levels of twats in this world:-

1) The OCD Condition Freak

This is the type of buyer who will ALWAYS find a problem with a record no matter how mint and unblemished it is. They usually preface their order with phrases like, "I am a serious collector", "I've been collecting records for 20 years" etc, etc. Several times I've sent records out which have never been played ever only to have to have them contact me complaining about condition probably in order to get an extra discount. These people probably never actually play the records but probably just like moaning. Avoid at all costs as they'll tie you up in long-winded arguments which are always a pain in the ass. The SECOND they start I always offer them a 100% refund if they send the record back which is when they generally back down.

2) The Hot-Headed Foreign Buyer With Bad Etiquette

These guys are looking for a fight from the word go. Even though everything I offer on Discogs is fixed-price only with no offers they'll still offer 50% of the price and when that hasn't worked they'll then 'forget' to add postage which will then add more stress in terms of spending time having to deal with 'em. Once the right money has finally been sorted out, they'll then start bombarding you with messages saying, "Hey Mister. Where's my record? I want refund!" even though the postal systems of the countries in question leave a lot to be desired.

3) General Congenital F*ckwits

These are the ones who can't figure out that I need paying in £ sterling rather than pesos and which will often take half a dozen messages with precise instructions to sort out. These same guys generally always moan about the postage costs to their country and accuse me of over-charging when I actually make a slight loss on most long-range destinations. They are also the type of guys who will raise a dispute if they haven't received their package within a week even though I've known it to take 6-8 weeks to reach some places.

All the above accounts for 0.8% of the hassle. The other 99.2% of customers are fine.

Ian D

Had every one of them Ian, and also blocked every one of them from future bidding!

Edited August 3, 201212 yr by Gene-R

Yes, the condition freaks are slightly mental sometimes. Had a guy who I sold a totally unplayed album to who claimed it was only VG+. Another who insisted my gradings (on discogs) were wrong (as in M- and VG+) and he regraded a bunch of records he bought as 'this one is VG+++, this one is only VG-- as the label is slightly faded, this one is EX++" blah blah. One who was totally out to lunch from Germany who decided that the entire Discogs setup was ripping him off, told me a Mint LP was 'flea market trash' and he was putting in 16 paypal reclaims. After contacting a few other sellers he was chucked off, but he mailed me numerous lengthy messages calling me a nazi and telling me he was taking me to the european court of justice for fraud. Chritian Beiden from Cologne. I should have known when he said "This NEAR MINT condition was the ONLY reason for me to buy this item since I have it in so many other formats that I'm not interested in the music from this record.".

But as Ian says, out of over 300 transactions on discogs, i've had 1% bad experiences, the rest are great

cheers Sutty

at least you got some feedback as poor as it is,

what about all the people that just don't bother to send you any at all,

really pi**es me off,

joe.

I'd rather have none than rubbish like that Joe.

It makes people think that it was literally just "ok" when it was actually very good service.

I've noticed since the last lot of postage price rises, people are really taking the p*ss, sellers charging £3 for 1st class standard (actually costs £1), £3.50 for 1st class recorded (costs £2.15) and at the moment I won 3 records off one guy on Sunday, he wanted to charge me £7.50 for 1st class recorded (3 x 2.50, actual cost £2.15) and he will not respond to my queries, I don't appear to have any way to make him send me a combined invoice apart from asking him via Ebay messages THREE TIMES and all have been ignored. Next I will get a non paying bidder strike. How's that fair?

I've noticed since the last lot of postage price rises, people are really taking the p*ss, sellers charging £3 for 1st class standard (actually costs £1), £3.50 for 1st class recorded (costs £2.15) and at the moment I won 3 records off one guy on Sunday, he wanted to charge me £7.50 for 1st class recorded (3 x 2.50, actual cost £2.15) and he will not respond to my queries, I don't appear to have any way to make him send me a combined invoice apart from asking him via Ebay messages THREE TIMES and all have been ignored. Next I will get a non paying bidder strike. How's that fair?

It's not. You should get a break on a multi-item package in line with what it costs.

I have a massive amount of international buyers across all formats, many of whom order multiple 12"'s which can cause headaches cos' often it's cheaper to send two seperate packages rather than one heavy one. I had to raise my P&P charges just recently when the UK prices shot up and postage charges are often more than the bloody record's worth, especially if someone from Brazil, Australia, Argentina or Canada orders an old 12" cheapie. I do often 'lose' on P&P on Australia/Canada packages I've noticed, but I don't think people will accept higher P&P charges, so one has to take the hit. It'll soon be uneconomical to post cheap records internationally. No shortage of customers but consistently rising postal charges will put many people off.

Bearing in mind that most of my customers are overseas, these are my P&P charges which only the occasional dickhead/tightwad challenges........

UK & NORTHERN IRELAND

12" & LPs £3.50 and £1.00 each thereafter.

CDs & 7" £2.00 and £1.00 each thereafter.

(Recorded Delivery - please add £1.00)

EUROPE

12" & LPs £4.50 and £1.50 thereafter

CDs & 7" £3.00 and £1.00 thereafter.

UNITED STATES & REST OF WORLD

12" & LPs £6.50 and £2.50 thereafter.

CDs & 7" £3.00 and £1.00 thereafter.

I know you're the Asda of Northern Soul sellers Pete, but do they look reasonable to you?

Ian D

It's not. You should get a break on a multi-item package in line with what it costs.

I have a massive amount of international buyers across all formats, many of whom order multiple 12"'s which can cause headaches cos' often it's cheaper to send two seperate packages rather than one heavy one. I had to raise my P&P charges just recently when the UK prices shot up and postage charges are often more than the bloody record's worth, especially if someone from Brazil, Australia, Argentina or Canada orders an old 12" cheapie. I do often 'lose' on P&P on Australia/Canada packages I've noticed, but I don't think people will accept higher P&P charges, so one has to take the hit. It'll soon be uneconomical to post cheap records internationally. No shortage of customers but consistently rising postal charges will put many people off.

Bearing in mind that most of my customers are overseas, these are my P&P charges which only the occasional dickhead/tightwad challenges........

UK & NORTHERN IRELAND

12" & LPs £3.50 and £1.00 each thereafter.

CDs & 7" £2.00 and £1.00 each thereafter.

(Recorded Delivery - please add £1.00)

EUROPE

12" & LPs £4.50 and £1.50 thereafter

CDs & 7" £3.00 and £1.00 thereafter.

UNITED STATES & REST OF WORLD

12" & LPs £6.50 and £2.50 thereafter.

CDs & 7" £3.00 and £1.00 thereafter.

I know you're the Asda of Northern Soul sellers Pete, but do they look reasonable to you?

Ian D

Absolutely!

I've noticed since the last lot of postage price rises, people are really taking the p*ss, sellers charging £3 for 1st class standard (actually costs £1), £3.50 for 1st class recorded (costs £2.15) and at the moment I won 3 records off one guy on Sunday, he wanted to charge me £7.50 for 1st class recorded (3 x 2.50, actual cost £2.15) and he will not respond to my queries, I don't appear to have any way to make him send me a combined invoice apart from asking him via Ebay messages THREE TIMES and all have been ignored. Next I will get a non paying bidder strike. How's that fair?

On Monday I bought an LP from Discogs, off a guy in Norway, for 11 and he charged me 12.10 for postage. Fookin' robber.

On Monday I bought an LP from Discogs, off a guy in Norway, for 11 and he charged me 12.10 for postage. Fookin' robber.

It costs 72 NOK to send an LP from Norway to England.

That's about 10.

12.10 is a bit high, but not as unreasonable as it might've seemed.

When sending LPs from Sweden to Europe it costs me 92 SEK ($14) and 102 SEK ($15.50) to the rest of the world. Those are the actual shipping costs. Crazy. I only sell cheap LPs (£10 or less) to swedish customers nowadays.

Edited August 3, 201212 yr by Sebastian

It costs 72 NOK to send an LP from Norway to England.

That's about 10.

12.10 is a bit high, but not as unreasonable as it might've seemed.

When sending LPs from Sweden to Europe it costs me 92 SEK ($14) and 102 SEK ($15.50) to the rest of the world. Those are the actual shipping costs. Crazy. I only sell cheap LPs (£10 or less) to swedish customers nowadays.

It's my own fault as I didn't check his rates prior to buying, but when I did check his rate it was 11 - why he would up it by 1.10 is a bit puzzling.

On Monday I bought an LP from Discogs, off a guy in Norway, for 11 and he charged me 12.10 for postage. Fookin' robber.

I bet it probably cost him not far off that with a bit of padding for packing. That's what I mean about it becoming uneconomical. Another round of rises could kill the bottom end of the market completely which would be a shame because these are mostly young people who are dipping their toe into buying records......

Ian D

I bet it probably cost him not far off that with a bit of padding for packing. That's what I mean about it becoming uneconomical. Another round of rises could kill the bottom end of the market completely which would be a shame because these are mostly young people who are dipping their toe into buying records......

Ian D

Or lifelong middle aged collectors who are reluctant to pay silly money for records.

This past couple of weeks I've bought 18 LPs from Discogs, 14 of which cost more for packaging and postage than the record itself, it's starting to piss me off a bit now I have to say.

Roger

I've noticed since the last lot of postage price rises, people are really taking the p*ss, sellers charging £3 for 1st class standard (actually costs £1), £3.50 for 1st class recorded (costs £2.15) and at the moment I won 3 records off one guy on Sunday, he wanted to charge me £7.50 for 1st class recorded (3 x 2.50, actual cost £2.15) and he will not respond to my queries, I don't appear to have any way to make him send me a combined invoice apart from asking him via Ebay messages THREE TIMES and all have been ignored. Next I will get a non paying bidder strike. How's that fair?

I wont bid on any record above £2.50 p&p and I think that's too steep, as for the ok feedback it's probably just laziness I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

The guy who charged me £7.50 has just sent me a new invoice, charging £4 to send 3 records by 1st class standard, actual cost of this is £1.30.

The guy who charged me £7.50 has just sent me a new invoice, charging £4 to send 3 records by 1st class standard, actual cost of this is £1.30.

Maybe he knows that you're the Asda of Northern Soul sellers and he's trying to clip your wings with your bargain basement postage costs....

Ian D

Or lifelong middle aged collectors who are reluctant to pay silly money for records.

This past couple of weeks I've bought 18 LPs from Discogs, 14 of which cost more for packaging and postage than the record itself, it's starting to piss me off a bit now I have to say.

Roger

Yeah, it's ironic isn't it? Great vinyl albums and 12"'s are the cheapest they've ever been but the postage costs are taking a lot of the fun out of it!

Ian D

It's not strictly true that royal mail prices have shot up, in fact you can now send up to 750g for £2.71 1st class - so I charge the same price for 2 lps as I would for 1.

It's not strictly true that royal mail prices have shot up, in fact you can now send up to 750g for £2.71 1st class - so I charge the same price for 2 lps as I would for 1.

Coulda fooled me.......

Prices for personal customers - April 2012

Our regulator, Ofcom, has now published its final decision on the future regulation of postal services and we can now confirm our new prices, which will be effective from 30 April 2012.

Key price changes

Our stamp prices are increasing from 30 April 2012:

• 1st Class stamps for letters weighing up to 100g will increase from 46p to 60p
  
• 2nd Class stamps for letters weighing up to 100g will increase from 36p to 50p.
  

Packets weighing up to 750g will be charged at one flat rate price:

• 1st Class packets weighing up to 750g will cost £2.70.
  
• 2nd Class packets weighing up to 750g will cost £2.20.
  

Since 30/4/12 my personal postage charges have risen by a mimimum of 30%.

Ian D

Edited August 3, 201212 yr by Ian Dewhirst

I'd rather have none than rubbish like that Joe.

It makes people think that it was literally just "ok" when it was actually very good service.

Whenever I look up a seller to see if he's trustworthy I only look at his overall rating percentage and the detailed rating. I don't even bother what people say in their feedbacks. Actually I think that part is redundant.

Sorry should have been clearer yes prices have gone up but it used to cost £2.50ish to post an LP, but now it costs 20p more but you can send up to 750g whereas before this would have cost more previously so in this respect (multiple LP sales) it's cheaper, I sell a lot of LPs so I can actually send multiple buys for less now than before the price rise

Whenever I look up a seller to see if he's trustworthy I only look at his overall rating percentage and the detailed rating. I don't even bother what people say in their feedbacks. Actually I think that part is redundant.

feedback also doesn't matter anymore in terms of how ebay treats sellers, it's all the DSRs.

I sold a vintage Fisher Price Cassette player from the 80's the other Month............Buyer left positive feedback

Sexy Little Bast***d.

Didn't know if i should have reported him to the Police.

God Dam pervert!

feedback also doesn't matter anymore in terms of how ebay treats sellers, it's all the DSRs.

Boba, what are the DSRs ?

About the "O.K. " feedback the guy must leave it for each transaction, like most people do (leaving the same comment). And the important is that it's positive,isn't it ?

Edited August 4, 201212 yr by Philippe

Boba, what are the DSRs ?

About the "O.K. " feedback the guy must leave it for each transaction, like most people do (leaving the same comment). And the important is that it's positive,isn't it ?

It's those star ratings.

I am handing out some 1 stars for postage charges at the moment.

Doesn't seem to make much difference on ebay UK though

Boba, what are the DSRs ?

what pete said, but it stands for "detailed seller ratings".

i sell very low value on e bay in the last two months i have sold at least 100 x 45s the feedback given amounts to 30 that makes 70 lazy sods out there ,i know its not in my interest to block them as buyers but i do (one example being a buyer had several purchases from me(ebay id legpeg)no feedback left, know if he was not happy with the first lot why come back for more , another buyer e mails me says he missed my auction can i do a buy it now for him(how can you miss a auction he must have seen it to know he missed it , it was a four tops listed at £1.99 so i doubt he was scared to bid to alert other buyers to the record, i do a buy it now for him guess what no feedback

if they dont leave you feedback they cant add to your dsr, if you are a good seller and i have 100% feedback and 4.9 on dsr ,you want feedback because if you get to idiots who unfairly leave you very low dsr the other s leaving you feedback will quickly put your % back up

packed a single 45 going to Australia the other day , took it to my local PO and weighed it in as int signed for & it was £11.50 !! gobsmacked !!

now i have just sold another 45 to an Aussie at £11.50 and got to charge them the same for P&P !!

Ian.

It's those star ratings.

Thanks Pete and Boba. I must say I don't always use them.

Or lifelong middle aged collectors who are reluctant to pay silly money for records.

This past couple of weeks I've bought 18 LPs from Discogs, 14 of which cost more for packaging and postage than the record itself, it's starting to piss me off a bit now I have to say.

Roger

Or lifelong middle aged collectors who are reluctant to pay silly money for records.

This past couple of weeks I've bought 18 LPs from Discogs, 14 of which cost more for packaging and postage than the record itself, it's starting to piss me off a bit now I have to say.

Roger

I tend not to look at that way Roger - if I buy an album from the US for say $10 - I know postage might make it $25 - so it is £15 for an album. I know I would be delighted if i could walk into a shop in this country and buy an album I wanted for £15!! Just my way of looking at it. Mike

I don't leave DSRs. They're supposed to be anonymous but they're not. If you ever leave a non-5 certain sellers that monitor DSRs will block you. It also takes a lot more time when leaving a lot of feedback. If the only point of DSRs is to leave all 5s, I don't see the point in leaving them at all.

just been & posted 6 records out 10 mins ago, all were 1st class recorded and 2 of them cost 30p then the others, i,m only assuming then that the slight weight difference between vinyl & styrene pushes them over the 100g limit ?? All had same mailer and 2 slices of same card !!

Posted out another to Australia and this time Int signed for was only £9.50 yet last week it was £11.50 !!! again it that the weight of the record ?? bizarre lol

Ian.

just been & posted 6 records out 10 mins ago, all were 1st class recorded and 2 of them cost 30p then the others, i,m only assuming then that the slight weight difference between vinyl & styrene pushes them over the 100g limit ?? All had same mailer and 2 slices of same card !!

Posted out another to Australia and this time Int signed for was only £9.50 yet last week it was £11.50 !!! again it that the weight of the record ?? bizarre lol

Ian.

Yeah it's fine margins of weight, 99% of all single records I send cost £2.15 first class recorded that's for the record, mailer and 3 pieces of cut cardboard, but you can actually send 3 records for the same price.

I have in recent times bought records off Ebay that in my opinion are not as described ,however i have stuck with buying from this source in the hope that 99% of records sold are exactly as described , am guilty of not adding feedback ,but i do pay on the nail and have complained only once about a record (warped beyond belief) ,unfortunately there are some people out there abusing Ebay you only have to look at the threads on this subject ,dont want to be too negative but

Record arrives from known dealer = cant wait to open package

Record arrives from ebay = opens package with fingers crossed

will always repeat orders to ebay sellars that have done the business though

remember sending a record to Australia once

sent it int sign for - cost me about 9-00 to cover 50-00 insured (Even though record was worth 100 )

it would of been about another 2-00 to cover full amount

when he got it he said it had a styrene fault and wanted refund

i asked if it had broken , he said no , just line he didnt like

i said please return for credit for price of record as it was ok condition wise for me , but not him

told him i would refund once returned to me - BUT SEND TRACKED as i need to make sure i get it

he didnt bother in end - just called me some names and left it

always wondered what if he would of sent back normal AIR post - and i didnt get it - WHAT THEN

IF if sent back insured how much do you put on it as your sending it back in your opinion damaged already

would you be legal

ebay can & will return postage charges if they feel like it !! sure i read somewhere that the seller is now responsible for safe shipping in that it's your responsibility to get to the buyer even after you wave it goodbye at the PO !!

remember sending a record to Australia once

sent it int sign for - cost me about 9-00 to cover 50-00 insured (Even though record was worth 100 )

it would of been about another 2-00 to cover full amount

when he got it he said it had a styrene fault and wanted refund

i asked if it had broken , he said no , just line he didnt like

i said please return for credit for price of record as it was ok condition wise for me , but not him

told him i would refund once returned to me - BUT SEND TRACKED as i need to make sure i get it

he didnt bother in end - just called me some names and left it

always wondered what if he would of sent back normal AIR post - and i didnt get it - WHAT THEN

IF if sent back insured how much do you put on it as your sending it back in your opinion damaged already

would you be legal

Sounds to me like a freeloader trying to fraudulently get a discount, Keith. You do get them on Ebay.

Edited August 6, 201212 yr by Gene-R

ebay can & will return postage charges if they feel like it !! sure i read somewhere that the seller is now responsible for safe shipping in that it's your responsibility to get to the buyer even after you wave it goodbye at the PO !!

I don't subscribe to this at all. As soon as that record goes over the post office counter I consider that it's out of my hands and the responsibility of the postal services from that point forward. At the moment I'm having a Paypal dispute with a customer in Argentina over a £40 record which he says he hasn't received yet despite me proving I've sent it and sending a scan of the PO receipt.

How can we guarantee the world's postal services?

Ian D

I don't subscribe to this at all. As soon as that record goes over the post office counter I consider that it's out of my hands and the responsibility of the postal services from that point forward. At the moment I'm having a Paypal dispute with a customer in Argentina over a £40 record which he says he hasn't received yet despite me proving I've sent it and sending a scan of the PO receipt.

How can we guarantee the world's postal services?

Ian D

who do you think's gonna win the paypal claim in the end?

hint: not you

who do you think's gonna win the paypal claim in the end?

hint: not you

But I don't see why not Bob. What else can I do? I fulfilled my end of the deal. Also I should mention that the guy did Paypal claims on 2 seperate orders and then accidentally revealed that he had in fact received one of the records. When I pointed this out to him, he had no choice nut to cave on one of the claims, so at least that's in my favour.

Also, this would be the first time ever that someone hasn't received a record I've posted but maybe I've just been lucky up to now.....

But I'm not caving on this. Why should I? It'll leave me out the record and the £40 which isn't right (although I guess I could put a claim in for a lost package at this end).

Ian D

But I don't see why not Bob. What else can I do? I fulfilled my end of the deal. Also I should mention that the guy did Paypal claims on 2 seperate orders and then accidentally revealed that he had in fact received one of the records. When I pointed this out to him, he had no choice nut to cave on one of the claims, so at least that's in my favour.

Also, this would be the first time ever that someone hasn't received a record I've posted but maybe I've just been lucky up to now.....

But I'm not caving on this. Why should I? It'll leave me out the record and the £40 which isn't right (although I guess I could put a claim in for a lost package at this end).

Ian D

I'm not saying you deserve to lose. I'm saying you will lose. You could have a video of yourself handing the package to him in person with him opening it, inspecting it, and playing it and saying "it's just as described". You will still lose.

I'm not saying you deserve to lose. I'm saying you will lose. You could have a video of yourself handing the package to him in person with him opening it, inspecting it, and playing it and saying "it's just as described". You will still lose.

So I guess it's a kind of "glass is half empty" scenario on Paypal claims against a seller then?

Ian D

So I guess it's a kind of "glass is half empty" scenario on Paypal claims against a seller then?

Ian D

Paypal almost always sides with the buyer. I'm on a message board consisting of mostly sellers and there are constant threads on chargebacks, etc. Apparently there is no US Mail service you can use to avoid a chargeback, you would have to use DHL or something. Someone posted a long story about how he won a chargeback for the first time, apparently you have to lose first then appeal and do all sorts of crazy things.

mate of mine sold a playstation type thingy for £400, sent it SD to Glasgow, buyer signed for it, gave pos feedback then 3 days later claimed he never got it and ebay returned his £400 !!!, even with all the evidence my mate had ebay didn't want to know. Told him to go to the old bill but he never did !

Ian.

Paypal almost always sides with the buyer. I'm on a message board consisting of mostly sellers and there are constant threads on chargebacks, etc. Apparently there is no US Mail service you can use to avoid a chargeback, you would have to use DHL or something. Someone posted a long story about how he won a chargeback for the first time, apparently you have to lose first then appeal and do all sorts of crazy things.

Well, I went through the whole dispute process which the buyer kept escalating. Because the Paypal process didn't offer me the right options to reply I ended up having to ring them and explain the circumstances. Within 2 minutes of the call, Paypal closed the dispute and refunded my payment in full.

So, no I didn't lose Bob.

I did say to the Paypal guy that I'd been personally advised and read on forums that I'd automatically lose because Paypal always side with the buyer and the guy said, "yeah, but the only people who tell you that are ones that have lost the process, very seldom the ones who have won the won the process". He may have a point.

Ian D

Well, I went through the whole dispute process which the buyer kept escalating. Because the Paypal process didn't offer me the right options to reply I ended up having to ring them and explain the circumstances. Within 2 minutes of the call, Paypal closed the dispute and refunded my payment in full.

So, no I didn't lose Bob.

I did say to the Paypal guy that I'd been personally advised and read on forums that I'd automatically lose because Paypal always side with the buyer and the guy said, "yeah, but the only people who tell you that are ones that have lost the process, very seldom the ones who have won the won the process". He may have a point.

Ian D

I'm pretty sure you automatically will lose if you do it all online and then have to call them to appeal. Making the phone call is the best step you did.