Grouprecords, AKA Brooklynborn, AKA Ritchie Rozens has this up on the 'bay

Colour scheme,same as Oxford Nights, M- same as Oxford Nights, Dodgy, same as Oxford Nights???

Be wary!

Edited November 16, 200420 yr by Trevski

Groupsoul, AKA Brooklynborn, AKA Ritchie Rozens has this up on the 'bay

Colour scheme,same as Oxford Nights, M- same as Oxford Nights, Dodgy, same as Oxford Nights???

Be wary!

link

Got the link, ebay number Trev? Brooklyn Born is Joe Giatano is he not, pals with Ritchie Rozens tho'.

Got the link, ebay number Trev?  Brooklyn Born is Joe Giatano is he not, pals with Ritchie Rozens tho'.

link

Sorry Chalks, forgot to put it on!

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=4052605528

Think the pair of 'em are in cahoots.

Ian O'hara told me it was Rozens, but deffo Brooklyn Born and Grouprecords are one in the same.

This is not the first one of these he's had on the 'bay either!

Edited November 16, 200420 yr by Trevski

Sorry Chalks, forgot to put it on!

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=4052605528

Think the pair of 'em are in cahoots.

Ian O'hara told me it was Rozens, but deffo Brooklyn Born and Grouprecords are one in the same.

This is not the first one of these he's had on the 'bay either!

link

Its Joe Giatano so I'm told but like I said they are both good friends

Cheers for the link.

Trev the real ones look like this: and the only difference I can spot is that the colour of this one is much sharper, but this may be down to the scanner/camera used. had lengthy conversations with the guy selling the Oxfor Nights and his name was Julian and he said he was selling them on behalf of a group member. Read into that what you will

To be perfectly honest don't see to much wrong with the first one posted, the latter one looks more dodgy IMO Looks too sharp but like you say could be camera or scanner

Seen another scan the same as the one Trev posted.

Edited November 16, 200420 yr by chalky

Trev the real ones look like this: and the only difference I can spot is that the colour of this one is much sharper, but this may be down to the scanner/camera used. had lengthy conversations with the guy selling the Oxfor Nights and his name was Julian and he said he was selling them on behalf of a group member. Read into that what you will

link

Not saying they are from the same source, but the guy(s) selling the communicaters have been known to be somewhat dodgy! Just wanted to alert any 'sourcerers' that may be considering bidding. These days it pays to be wary, at least 'til some verification comes through on high-priced items such as this

Not saying they are from the same source, but the guy(s) selling the communicaters have been known to be somewhat dodgy! Just wanted to alert any 'sourcerers' that may be considering bidding. These days it pays to be wary, at least 'til some verification comes through on high-priced items such as this

link

I know what you mean about his reputation and his mates. Can't be too careful these days.

Trev the real ones look like this: and the only difference I can spot is that the colour of this one is much sharper, but this may be down to the scanner/camera used. had lengthy conversations with the guy selling the Oxfor Nights and his name was Julian and he said he was selling them on behalf of a group member. Read into that what you will

link

Billy

Am I right in thinking that you had the "proper" one for a considerable time (? over 3 years) and therefore it could not have come from the same batch that these dealer are knocking out on ebay, if they are indeed dodgy in any way (i.e. pressed recently)?

Billy

Am I right in thinking that you had the "proper" one for a considerable time (? over 3 years) and therefore it could  not have come from the same batch that these dealer are knocking out on ebay, if they are indeed dodgy in any way (i.e. pressed recently)?

link

'fraid not, never owned one. One of my all-time faves too!

Bit worried about bidding with all the talk

Edited November 16, 200420 yr by billytheboot

'fraid not, never owned one. One of my all-time faves too!  

Bit worried about bidding with all the talk

link

Your scan looks like the one one Ovenchips auction finishing 15/09/04 @ £450 (that must have been an original?!!). Therefore, they could all come from the same "find" or the same "repress". I think, on either account, risking £50 should be a max, all thing considered. What'd you think?

Is Communicators meant to be spelt like it is on the label?

Is Communicators meant to be spelt like it is on the label?

link

It is on mine. Mine looks exactly like the scan off ebay. Bought off Andy Dyson so is pucker.

He's also got a copy of the Silhouettes up:https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=306&item=4052604238&rd=1

And guess what - brand spanking mint as well!!! Brooklyn Born had the Cashmeres the other week (mint), has had loads of Frederick Hymes (mint) and lots of the Royal Esquires (mint). As I said on another forum, either these guys are great at sourcing small (??) quantities of hard to find records in mint condition, or something's going on here. Sometimes quantities do turn up as with Betty Lloyd a few years ago and I honestly can't tell what the real situation is until we can physically compare stuff from these sellers with 45s in our collections that we've had for some time and know are legit - HELP!!!

Rich

I just got myself a copy of Some Day The Sun Will Shine on what I thought was going to be an acetate - but it's actually cut onto vinyl! Thick, old style vinyl. I never thought this was possible but it obviously is...not accusing anyone of anything but if I can get it done, surely someone with money and resources could get it done with proper labels etc..

I just got myself a copy of Some Day The Sun Will Shine on what I thought was going to be an acetate - but it's actually cut onto vinyl!  Thick, old style vinyl.  I never thought this was possible but it obviously is...not accusing anyone of anything but if I can get it done, surely someone with money and resources could get it done with proper labels etc..

link

In fact, he's got Ascots, Ringleaders, Topics, Rotations, Triumphs etc etc and all stone mint....

https://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQ...osortpropertyZ1

Can all of these titles really ALL be stone mint - surely some of these would have scuffs or be at least VG+. When every title is stone mint and most of the titles don't come up for sale often you've got to ask questions. In fact, I'm gonna ask him myself - watch this space...

still a lot of stone mint records come available,Ok not maybe the super hard ones but some £100 plus tunes anyway so why not the rarer ones,after all if they have stood untouched for years they should be mint,unless some storage warp,

Pete did you not have a record on your list a few months back that you said was the thickest record you have ever seen,like two stuck together,was it like that or am I getting mixed up.

still a lot of stone mint records come available,Ok not maybe the super hard ones but some £100 plus tunes anyway so why not the rarer ones,after all if they have stood untouched for years they should be mint,unless some storage warp,

Pete did you not have a record on your list a few months back that you said was the thickest record you have ever seen,like two stuck together,was it like that or am I getting mixed up.

link

I think I did, it was on Jubilee if I remember...

I've had a Royal Esquires and a Frederick Hymes from him.

I think I mentioned this a few months back, but the Royal Esquires has got 'bubbles' in the vinyl.

Now, I'm no expert as you'll all probably know, but even with modern technology, is it possible to recreate aging of the vinyl??

Am I right in thinking the the 'bubbling' occurs when excess vinyl cut off the press is collected and put back into the 'mix' so to speak. This inferior quality vinyl, having already been heated & pressed once countereacts with the higher quality vinyl over a period of years to form the bubbles.

It was that that lead me to believe the RE was an original. That's not to say that the ones mentioned are all legit. The thing is, it just seems too good to be true.

That's why we are all sceptical, afterall, there is a few quid at stake here!!!

Let us know how you get on Rich.

J

I've had a Royal Esquires and a Frederick Hymes from him.

I think I mentioned this a few months back, but the Royal Esquires has got 'bubbles' in the vinyl.

Now, I'm no expert as you'll all probably know, but even with modern technology, is it possible to recreate aging of the vinyl??

Am I right in thinking the the 'bubbling' occurs when excess vinyl cut off the press is collected and put back into the 'mix' so to speak. This inferior quality vinyl, having already been heated & pressed once countereacts with the higher quality vinyl over a period of years to form the bubbles.

It was that that lead me to believe the RE was an original. That's not to say that the ones mentioned are all legit. The thing is, it just seems too good to be true.

That's why we are all sceptical, afterall, there is a few quid at stake here!!!

Let us know how you get on Rich.

J

link

I will do my man, especially as I'd love some of them titles!!!!

In fact, he's got Ascots, Ringleaders, Topics, Rotations, Triumphs etc etc and all stone mint....

https://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQ...osortpropertyZ1

What puts me off is he doesn't seem to have any cheaper sounds. Surely if he's trawling around looking for records he'd have come across some mid-priced stuff on the majors? I've been over a dozen times and never failed to come back with £50 sounds on RCA, MGM, Columbia and others. This guy only seems to have come across mint-issue high-priced stuff. Doesn't smell right to me.

The Ascots he has on there looks absolutely nothing like the one I used to have, mine was either a pale blue or pale pink label!!!

What puts me off is he doesn't seem to have any cheaper sounds. Surely if he's trawling around looking for records he'd have come across some mid-priced stuff on the majors?  I've been over a dozen times and never failed to come back with £50 sounds on RCA, MGM, Columbia and others. This guy only seems to have come across mint-issue high-priced stuff. Doesn't smell right to me.

link

I think, he sales or they sale their cheaper stuff via the other user-ID "brooklyn-born".

I think, he sales or they sale their cheaper stuff via the other user-ID "brooklyn-born".

link

Well it was Brooklyn Born that had the mint Cashmeres and I think that auction ended at something like $2,500???

The guy with the Oxford Nights I feel more at ease about (Lil Peddler) because he does actually have a lot of other cheap and mid priced stuff and not all in stone mint condition.

Well, as I've said, I've asked this seller the question and I'll report back when I get a reply. If it's printable!!!

R

I would suggest 'if you ain't in you can't win' in other words if you think this is dodgy simply don't bid.

At present there seems to be so many problems with Ebay and dodgy dealings it leaves us feeling sick, i don't go on there anymore either to sell or bid, many of the Americans are simply taking the piss, not all don't get me wrong there are some outstanding genuine records on offer from genuine dealers but a few are really taking the piss, it's like they are trying to get even for all the $5.00 cock ups for thousand pound records they made over the years as they had little or no interest in the music then and still don't more the case of driven by greed, which is ok for genuine items and good condition stuff but not so good in situations like this.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

The Ascots he has on there looks absolutely nothing like the one I used to have, mine was either a pale blue or pale pink label!!!

link

Not sure re this Pete. My Ascots Anytime is attached and looks the same as the ebay one. I was actually thinking that his Ascots looked genuine - particularly given the 'dip' around the interior of the label which doesn't occur on others he has for sale. The Pearls, The Topics and the Ringleaders look dodgier to me and what's also interesting is the bidding pattern, which has been mentioned before.

Mekongdelta69 and Phytotox are bidding on and winning a suspiciously large number of this guy's offerings.

I'd like two or three of these but am leaving well alone personally.

Dan

Edited November 17, 200420 yr by Dan

Well it was Brooklyn Born that had the mint Cashmeres and I think that auction ended at something like $2,500???

The guy with the Oxford Nights I feel more at ease about (Lil Peddler) because he does actually have a lot of other cheap and mid priced stuff and not all in stone mint condition.

Well, as I've said, I've asked this seller the question and I'll report back when I get a reply. If it's printable!!!

R

link

Yes I do agree that he also sales big money items via brooklyn-born, so he keeps this account interesting, but via grouprecords only the big money 45s (only one 45 under $50 in User-ID history). He also used to sell the Fredrick Hymes III via both accounts.

For example you can have Cody Black - Going Going Gone for a tenner, and I think he won't get much more when the auction is over. Altough he gets over $40 for Cindy Gibson, which is far too much imo.

And it's obvious, that there is a connection between both sellers, as the soundfiles come from the same homepage.

Martin

I ownder if I'm thinking of another label then? I was sure it was this. The label name was small and in script at the top, it definitely didn't have a design like that one though. The record I usually get this mixed up with is The Empires but I've never had that.

Not saying they are from the same source, but the guy(s) selling the communicaters have been known to be somewhat dodgy! Just wanted to alert any 'sourcerers' that may be considering bidding. These days it pays to be wary, at least 'til some verification comes through on high-priced items such as this

link

could nt agree with you more, something suspect here. ive been in ritchy rozens shop a couple of time , and every half rare record, [anne byers, teddy randazzo, the meridians, ritchie adams.......]he had , were all well overpriced and very bad condition to basically f**ked. Now as if by magic....there allsorts mint coming into his hands.

dodgy geezer :angry:

The Ringleaders looks absolutely bob on.... apart from one thing.... the scan is a little too sharp.... its poss. that they are over sharpening the scans to make the labels look extra clean?

WOOF!

Yes, should have added that the reason I am suspicious of the Ringleaders is that so many have turned up of late that I think a gang of forgers are at work. Wonder who the ringleader is? Sorry. Fetch!

Re The Ringleaders - originally this was only played for about 4 weeks before being 'pressed' - except it wasn't pressed at all, every copy sold was an original. I bought it from Pep's shop, £3, along with John Bowie which was also an original. I think it was Soul Bowl who found them. So there were a few hundred of each, and even now they occasionally get offered as pressings.

I think what we need is one you Professor Frink types who have a carbon dating machine just casually lying around.

Hair-brain it sounds, but it would soon tell you how old the vinyl was, spotting any recent 'forgeries'.

(Here's one: A miniature Carbon-Burger machine to take to soul nights to check before you buy!!)

Edited November 17, 200420 yr by Jamie

Just to reiterate what I was saying earlier, it is now possible to cut vinyl records from any source onto vinyl not acetate, and if you saw this one I received this morning, you would think it is from the mid 60's. It's not shiny like new vinyl, it's not bevelled, it's got a flat edge and it's bloody thick! Any pressers would have to know about run ons and run off thicknesses and would need to make their own stampers for the run offs (I know this is possible, you can get like drill punches with letters on them).

Just to reiterate what I was saying earlier, it is now possible to cut vinyl records from any source onto vinyl not acetate, and if you saw this one I received this morning, you would think it is from the mid 60's.  It's not shiny like new vinyl, it's not bevelled, it's got a flat edge and it's bloody thick!  Any pressers would have to know about run ons and run off thicknesses and would need to make their own stampers for the run offs (I know this is possible, you can get like drill punches with letters on them).

link

Ah ha! So it's YOU!!!!! You fiend you...

Ah ha! So it's YOU!!!!! You fiend you...

link

Please don't start rumours like that, some people take them as gospel!

all true and all possible,the Ringleaders was in soul bowl packs in 76, I got one !!

Please don't start rumours like that, some people take them as gospel! 

link

Nope, there's only one Brooklyn Born/Grouprecords and he hasn't got a wolves accent, so you're off the hook!!! And besides, it may very well turn out that the records are legit. Still waiting for a reply from my email to him... - although to be fair, given the time difference he'll probably only be munching his cornflakes right now...

or rubbing some dust into the labels

I must say, having had most of these records through my hands, they all look ok, asides from the Pearls, the label on mine was a much deeper red, it may just be the scan, also Soul Communicaters isn't that rare anyway, that and Ascots "Anytime" we around in abundance in the 80's, as was the Soul Gents etc.,etc......

Edited November 17, 200420 yr by Tony Smith

Dammit, this has made me realise I am definitely talking about another record - it is The Ascots but the title is Another Day, not Anytime. Thats the one with the pale pink or pale blue label.

Yes "Another Day" was on pink Mir-A-Don (I think the 1st 3 releases were purple, the remainder pink, incidentally AD a far superior and rarer record than "Anytime"

Thanks Tony, was starting to think I was going mad there, actually I am going mad seeing JM price it at 150 more than I sold it for

Strange when you think, I couldn't get £15 for Another Day back in '86-'87!

What puts me off is he doesn't seem to have any cheaper sounds. Surely if he's trawling around looking for records he'd have come across some mid-priced stuff on the majors?  I've been over a dozen times and never failed to come back with £50 sounds on RCA, MGM, Columbia and others. This guy only seems to have come across mint-issue high-priced stuff. Doesn't smell right to me.

link

Well he had some cheaper stuff last night

The Ascots he has on there looks absolutely nothing like the one I used to have, mine was either a pale blue or pale pink label!!!

link

Looks fine to me Pete.

Looks fine to me Pete.

link

Read the rest of the thread mate

Read the rest of the thread mate 

link

I'd not got that far when posting Pete

In fact, he's got Ascots, Ringleaders, Topics, Rotations, Triumphs etc etc and all stone mint....

https://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQ...osortpropertyZ1

Can all of these titles really ALL be stone mint - surely some of these would have scuffs or be at least VG+. When every title is stone mint and most of the titles don't come up for sale often you've got to ask questions. In fact, I'm gonna ask him myself - watch this space... 

link

Well here's Joe's reply...

Richard I have listed in the last 3 days 14 records are 100% original all only 1 single copy. These records came from a guy in california i bought his entire soul collection. Most of these titles are the best Northern soul 45's that were in the collection. I have not had problem selling an rare records on ebay infact I get fantastic prices for the Northern soul. Richard you can rest assure that these Northern soul 45's that I am listing are 100% original.. These rumors all started when I bought out the "Fab Vegas" label and the "Prix" label and yes I did have many copies at one time. People in the UK are very envious that I got to these record label owners first mostly the dealers thay are the one's who start these rumors, and also the ones who want to buy the copies at wholesale prices.. Like i said again all these 14 records that will be listed are single copies... Hope this helps ease your mind a bit.. Best Joe & Mamie

So there you have it, from the horses mouth. I know that Dan's already said his Ascots looks identical and other people have said the same about some of the other 45s. I also asked him about The Cashmeres and he said it came out of the same collection and he ended up doing trades on it.

Rich

Wasn't the communicators pressed in oz earlier this year?

Anybody have a scan of this label

It was, with tower of power on the flip, blank labels, solid centre, green vinyl I think