Can anyone help with information and a valuation for this?

The version that I own, I can not find listed on the normal price sites, it is not any of the three versions listed on a well known site.

Mine in appearance is exactly the same as the standard issue pink-purple "Soul" label, the number is the same as the standard issue S-35020 , however the B side is not Fight Fire With Fire. The other side on mine plays Keep On Lovin' Me, and the label is exactly the same as the other side.

On the run out stamped in type is T4KM-1792-1, also in written style is ALI-175314. This is the same on both sides except one side as an X with a line on top.

Thanks

From Mark GF

 

11 minutes ago, Mark GF said:

Mine in appearance is exactly the same as the standard issue pink-purple "Soul" label, the number is the same as the standard issue S-35020 , however the B side is not Fight Fire With Fire. The other side on mine plays Keep On Lovin' Me,

I've got an Earl Van Dyke 6x6 that is exactly the same, can't find it listed anywhere, it's like a white/same side both sides demo but on the regular issue label.

I think what you have is a mislabeled promo- I've seen other Motown 45's that are on red vinyl ( which was used for promo copies) with regular issue labels. Here's a red vinyl Jimmy Ruffin that has "What Becomes..." on both sides - 

Here's an Originals with "Good Night Irene" on both sides. I think there's a mislabeled Blinky also - 

i believe it to be a promo mine is the same and i also have a have a -  shorty long - function at the junction  which is the same on both sides, both records are on the normal vinyl not the red vinyl

Here's a Shorty Long "Function..." on both sides as an issue on red vinyl - 

Thank you to the Yank, Kegsy and Roundhead for the information and great pictures. 

Quite a number of demos were made of the Frances Nero record and these are of far less value than the standard issue. Based on the information that this is very likely to be a demo with standard issue labels, is the version I have less value than the standard issue, or is it rarer still and of more value? 

I know recently a standard issue sold for £300, possibly a fluke? There is currently another for sale at £190 + £8 pp. 

Just trying to get an idea of value, as it’s a record I do not play very often.

I've got one too.

They're just demos.

Found a lot like that in a radio station in Columbus, Ga. years ago.

Sorry to wake up this old thread 

But I have an issue of the Frances Nero keep on lovin me with T4KM-1792 that plays fight fire with fire on flip 

i cant find any info on this issue that plays 2 different sides any help appreciated 

cheers

Brian

Edited June 4, 20222 yr by Flanny

Old thread indeed. To set the record straight the issue is/was to more common pressing to be found. The record was a good seller in 1966. The Northern revival and it's new commers and resurected folks with deep pockets had no experience to allow the dealers to push up the prices of many records. This one as well. With some dee-jays replays this Motown classic finally got it's 'posh' popularity. A new northern made it's entry in the TOP 500+

The stocker gained much in price (X 10) where the promo not at all at the same time. To sell for similar money regardless. Purchased by non collectors now. Explaination maybe ? If some argue that the stocker features a great 'B' side that the promo does not, it's true. Or partly at least. The promo doesn't feature a real 'B' side, True. But honestly if 'fight fire with fire' musicaly is fair, vocally and lyric-wise it's just another dull record IMHO.

For proof if it was only for 'fight fire with fire' not many here would even mention Frances Nero. That's that. Then as for those double 'A' sided labeled stockers out there I am about certain that these were just commercial rush releases when they didn't have a 'B' side ready yet but the demand was hot. Not a promo but a single sided stocker for rush sales I believe once the tune was readily available as promo and the air-play made it's buzz.

Edited June 4, 20222 yr by Tlscapital

This was a £1.00 record in the mid seventies ( thats how much I got mine for ) very common , after selling up in the early 80,s  I started to  attempt to re a quire some titles  about a decade or so  ago , at the time this was about £ 60.00 , as I had known it sell for so much cheaper , I declined thinking more would come along , They did of course but all more expensive than the last , yes around £150.00  , even £200.00  nowardays . (For the stock copy ) . Still only have a Stardust copy . My experience of this record coming up for sale is that there are far fewer demos than issues , and both the white soul demos  sell for more than the issue . 

1 hour ago, Carty said:

This was a £1.00 record in the mid seventies ( thats how much I got mine for ) very common , after selling up in the early 80,s  I started to  attempt to re a quire some titles  about a decade or so  ago , at the time this was about £ 60.00 , as I had known it sell for so much cheaper , I declined thinking more would come would come along ,...

Am born in 1970 and based in Belgium. Use to pick them up here as the flip 'fight fire with fire' was a 'Pop-Corn' sound. But it was never considered even here as a 'rare' one. Use to pick them up for £1 to about £3 to after retail them for about £7.50 early nineties to my soul friends here. It was a good 'catchy' seller on first ear. Early 21st Century the UK Northern revival came and the scene played a lot of Motown and the prices started to sour...

1 hour ago, Carty said:

They did of course but all more expensive than the last , yes around £150.00  , even £200.00  nowardays . (For the stock copy ) . Still only have a Stardust copy . My experience of this record coming up for sale is that there are far fewer demos than issues , and both the white soul demos  sell for more than the issue .

All the big shops had both JM and KR price guides... Then at one time all the dealers here in Belgium got to see those prices on the net. No Frances Nero were available all of a sudden amongst many other things. Then I manage to swap my stocker for a promo as they were selling for the same money now. Thrilled I was. Never expected to own one white demo. Thinking I got me a deal but actually not. Just a preference swap for both...

Edited June 4, 20222 yr by Tlscapital

Is the demo pressed at ARP?  

Most of the information i can find is for the arp press issue 

This is  t4km 1792 only info i can find on this issue is with keep on lovin me

to both sides / mis labelled demos ?  The history of the value/price was not my question I’m well aware of its NS history 

1 hour ago, Carty said:

This was a £1.00 record in the mid seventies ( thats how much I got mine for ) very common , after selling up in the early 80,s  I started to  attempt to re a quire some titles  about a decade or so  ago , at the time this was about £ 60.00 , as I had known it sell for so much cheaper , I declined thinking more would come along , They did of course but all more expensive than the last , yes around £150.00  , even £200.00  nowardays . (For the stock copy ) . Still only have a Stardust copy . My experience of this record coming up for sale is that there are far fewer demos than issues , and both the white soul demos  sell for more than the issue . 

Demo always been tougher in my experience, as you say the issue was pretty plentiful but hardly saw a demo

2 minutes ago, Flanny said:

Most of the information i can find is for the arp press issue 

This is  t4km 1792 only info i can find on this issue is with keep on lovin me

to both sides / mis labelled demos ?  The history of the value/price was not my question I’m well aware of its NS history 

Both demo and issue carry the RCA matrix but I can only find ARP on the issue, the issue with two sides that is

Edited June 4, 20222 yr by Chalky

23 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Am born in 1970 and based in Belgium. Use to pick them up here as the flip 'fight fire with fire' was a 'Pop-Corn' sound. But it was never considered even here as a 'rare' one. Use to pick them up for £1 to about £3 to after retail them for about £7.50 early nineties to my soul friends here. It was a good 'catchy' seller on first ear. Early 21st Century the UK Northern revival came and the scene played a lot of Motown and the prices started to sour...

All the big shops had both JM and KR price guides... Then at one time all the dealers here in Belgium got to see those prices on the net. No Frances Nero were available all of a sudden amongst many other things. Then I manage to swap my stocker for a promo as they were selling for the same money now. Thrilled I was. Never expected to own one white demo. Thinking I got me a deal but actually not. Just a preference swap for both...

I sold a white demo last month for £120 it was up for several weeks before i got any takers 😳

Rarest press I believe is the west coast stocker (seen few white promos variant of it though) with the first label design... Yummy !

 

Edited June 4, 20222 yr by Tlscapital

39 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Demo always been tougher in my experience, as you say the issue was pretty plentiful but hardly saw a demo

Both demo and issue carry the RCA matrix but I can only find ARP on the issue, the issue with two sides that is

Will try to dig out my demo and ask a friend who comes along to bring along his stock copy with the 'B' side and check both matrixes and play wise. I love my Motown 45's with their RCA masterings. They sound finer on my good MONO phono set up. Really they do. Even some guests notice that finer difference at times and I wont credit them as audiophiles.

Edited June 4, 20222 yr by Tlscapital

41 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Rarest press I believe is the west coast stocker (seen few white promos variant of it though) with the first label design... Yummy !

 

This looks like the boot

19 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

This looks like the boot

Blimey ! Makes sense as I've never seen the stocker of this west coast pressing but only the white promo. And I don't look at what is reissued or booted (same shame frame IMO) anymore so the net can indeed fool me. Thanks for pointing that out. This is the real stuff ;

Edited June 4, 20222 yr by Tlscapital

Very rare on Lilac / White.

I will post a link to a previous post regarding this when I get home in the morning.

I notice that Manship currently has a Gladys Knight and The Pips on Lilac / White.

1 hour ago, 45cellar said:

Very rare on Lilac / White.

I will post a link to a previous post regarding this when I get home in the morning.

I notice that Manship currently has a Gladys Knight and The Pips on Lilac / White.

Gladys Knight and The Pips 'walk in my shoes' on west coast is far less rare than the Frances Nero (whose white promo variants of that very west coast press is more common for example than it's white/lilac stocker counterpart for that matter) on west coast styrene pressing on the white/lilac labels. Even though Gladys on the west coast pressing is still rarer than the vinyl ARP pressing (not rare at all that one) none the less.

Edited June 6, 20222 yr by Tlscapital

>>> Auction 20/08/08 <<< Includes the rare Frances Nero Stock Copy

>>> Lilac and White <<< Includes the number S-35030 on Lilac and White

Links as promised.

Rarity of the Lilac and White labels vary depending on the release number.

Regarding the Original question.

I have a few Double A Side Stock Copies and all are from the "Arp" Pressing Plant.

Various titles.

 

 

What is the delta number for the West Coast Frances Nero?  Any other deadwax markings?

4 hours ago, 45cellar said:

>>> Auction 20/08/08 <<< Includes the rare Frances Nero Stock Copy

>>> Lilac and White <<< Includes the number S-35030 on Lilac and White

Links as promised.

Rarity of the Lilac and White labels vary depending on the release number.

Thanks for posting the link , Very desirable , after reading the link , this must go to the top in terms of rarity , if it made over £400 in 2008 wonder what  it is worth today ? 

The double A-sided promos that use stock labels were caused by the pressing plants running out of promo labels. Usually due to pressing flaws that were eventually corrected and the flawed records being discarded. This seems to be more common with ARP pressings, but there are examples of it happening with Southern Plastics pressings as well. 

Frances Nero was pressed by ARP, Monarch, and Southern Plastics (promo only) with the Monarch copies being the rarest, like everyone above has already said.

 Jr. Walker's "Pucker Up Buttercup" Soul 35030 is the last release to use the lilac/white labels. It seems like Monarch must've found a box of unused labels because the 3 prior releases they pressed were all done on the purple swirl design only. 
 

19 hours ago, Nick Soule said:

The double A-sided promos that use stock labels were caused by the pressing plants running out of promo labels. Usually due to pressing flaws that were eventually corrected and the flawed records being discarded. This seems to be more common with ARP pressings, but there are examples of it happening with Southern Plastics pressings as well...

OK, that could very well be (read that therory before) but that would mean that the flaws were that recurent for every forth coming release to last for a while release after release from Soul 35020 up to 35029...

That both with V.I.P. and the Soul label simultenaously... And then at an other time frame with Tamla and Motown... Making me believe that it was rather intentional somehow for fast'N'easy rush commercial releases.

Before being attested by a person of authority on the matter of such nonchalent professional aptitude to make the same and yet most easy to correct flaw not once, nor twice but repetedly I'll stick to my theory.

Edited June 7, 20222 yr by Tlscapital