Elbie Parker on Veep ....a 45  long held in Northern Soul esteem.

Does anyone have any information or any knowledge of  the participants of this session that could determine just who  is Elbie Parker ?

My flash of inspiration is that it could well be   : L B  Parker ....Little Bobby Parker. Wouldn`t that be amazing !!!

On Discogs it states that Elbie was LITTLE BOBBY PARKER ....

BUT on the Little Bobby Parker / Bobby Parker pages it doesn't reference either guy as being Elbie.

Bobby Parker based himself in Washington DC  in the early 60's (he kept the city as his home base after then, hence his connection with Shrine Records).

The Veep 45 was a late 1966 release (Oct ?) & had input from 2 New York based guys, so I guess the tracks were cut in NY. Bobby played all over in the 60's & had cut for a NY label in 64, so could have recorded  there around the mid 60's. The Bobby Parker 45 on Frisky dates from around the same time (summer 66) and that label too was NJ / NY based.

Bobby Parker had started out playing guitar for the likes of Otis Williams & the Charms + Bo Diddley, Sam Cooke, Jackie Wilson, Clyde McPatter & more after he had started his career to LA. He was also associated back then with Johnny Otis. He first recorded in 1958 & had a big hit in 61 as Bobby Parker. By 1964 though his recording career had gone cold & he cut a soul dance track for NY based Southern Sound but it failed to sell. MAYBE he cut the less bluesy cuts as Elbie to disguise the fact that he was a well known blues guy from the recent past. In 1968 he came to the UK and cut blues here under his 'main name' for Blue Horizon. In the 70's he still based himself in Washington DC and largely stopped touring (just doing local gigs). He was in his mid 30's by that time & had most probably grown tired of being on the road.  

Most pieces to be found online don't connect Bobby with Elbie BUT they just about all focus on his 'blues' work / career.

Maybe Shrine experts might known more info on Bobby in the mid 60's

Edited October 9, 20231 yr by Roburt

Thanks Robert, The "Elbie"  45 was not particularly out of character for Bobby, He tried to stay commercial and popular and  you have to remember that in 1962 , "blues" by Jimmy Reed , John Lee Hooker ,etc were plentiful in the Billboard Hot 100.   Bobby  played what was popular in the day  and ,   by 1964. was  covering James Brown ,etc ,  Although most of his 45s were from Washington DC sessions ,even though they appeared on labels based in other places, a trip to New York would not have been out of the question. The Shrine 45 lists him as Little Bobby Parker .  It was really only after the 90s comeback with the two Black Top cds ,that he settled for the blues categorisation   - when he no longer attempted the soulful wailing of items like "It`s too late". So the motivation for the pseudonym  is more likely to  have had other origins IF IT IS INDEED A BOBBY PARKER RECORD.

If it`s not too late ,a conversation with one of the parties  -like Herb Bernstein - involved in the production could settle it. Robert`s   Discogs  reference seems to be based on  John Manship`s comment......Elbie as Little Bobby  , a feasible possibility then but perhaps  not 100% sure.  MORE HELP NEEDED

I'd have serious doubts to him being Little Bobby Parker, I certainly wouldn't reply on the source on Discogs, well there isn't a source, he just added an alias.  Countless times they get it wrong who adds the info, putting something up that might be as a fact with nothing to back it up.

Upon listening to each of them, they sound nothing like each other.

Edited October 16, 20231 yr by Chalky

34 minutes ago, Footpath said:

If it`s not too late ,a conversation with one of the parties  -like Herb Bernstein - involved in the production could settle it. Robert`s   Discogs  reference seems to be based on  John Manship`s comment......Elbie as Little Bobby  , a feasible possibility then but perhaps  not 100% sure.  MORE HELP NEEDED

When I visited Herb Bernstein, in NY, he still had the master tapes for Elbie on his shelf ..which prompted me to ask him who Elbie Parker was .. no revelations I'm afraid .. he said he just knew him by that name

Andy

Roburt - I think your sources for Bobby Parker might need checking again. Bobby Parker first recorded in 1954 as a member of The Emeralds and is featured on a Bo Diddley cut 'I'm looking for a woman' released on Checker 832 in 1955.

He also features with Paul Williams on singles released on Josie in 1956. His first 45 with his name-only on it is 'Blues Get Off my Shoulder' on Vee-Jay released in September 1957. One of his biggest early cuts was 'Watch your step' which included a riff nicked by Deep Purple 0n 'Rat Bat Blue' and by The Yardbirds for 'I'm not Talking'. Parker was highly influential for some British guitarists who started out in the 1960s.

I would contend that his recording career never went cold. He records 45s for Sabu, Southern Sound, Loop, Frisky and Shrine - the latter unreleased at the time, between 1963 and 1966. The following year 1967 was a busy year as he releases three 45s. He continues to do session work as well which is harder to follow. Recording opportunities do seem to have stalled after 1970 when he released a 45 on Jay-Walking.

He moved to Brixton in 1969 where he was rather feted. He did some major gigs at iconic venues that included the Royal Albert Hall and the Marquee. He returned Stateside c.1972 where he chose to tour less often although he was a regular on the US Army NCO club circuit.

Rather surprisingly he didn't release an album in his own name until the 1990s when he recorded two albums in New Orleans. My source for this information is a fantastic compilation from 2020 called 'Soul of the Blues: Bobby Parker' with a 24-page booklet containing full discography and sleeve notes by uberfan Martin Newman. No less than fifty two tracks. 

There is no link betwenn Elbie Parker and Bobby Parker.

This is 'Watch your step' from 1961. Do I hear The Beatles 'I feel fine'  in the riff at the start?

Edited October 16, 20231 yr by Dukeofburgundy
Grammar

3 hours ago, Chalky said:

I'd have serious doubts to him being Little Bobby Parker, I certainly wouldn't reply on the source on Discogs, well there isn't a source, he just added an alias.  Countless times they get it wrong who adds the info, putting something up that might be as a fact with nothing to back it up.

Upon listening to each of them, they sound nothing like each other.

Hi Chalky ....Thanks for the comment. Are you listening just to "Watch your Step" ?    Or perhaps to the cut for the  Shrine label ? Agreed re Discogs ....and I am not relying on that.

However, having compiled and issued all the Bobby Parker tracks known to exist, I have heard  a lot  of his material    and bear in mind , Bobby with the Apollo house orchestra used to sing  other people`s  hits of the day  and could sound like a few different artistes . On his Amanda 45 , he channeled Little Anthony , For  his Southern Sound 45 , it was Larry Williams.    For this Veep record there are some similarities to other records he made around this time.....the trademark use of falsetto for example....but the main one I think is  the stumbling  over-amplified bass guitar figures you hear punctuating the lines of  "Please keep away..."   - very similar to Nat Hall`s "Why..." that Bobby Parker produced.  

5 hours ago, Dukeofburgundy said:

Roburt - I think your sources for Bobby Parker might need checking again. Bobby Parker first recorded in 1954 as a member of The Emeralds and is featured on a Bo Diddley cut 'I'm looking for a woman' released on Checker 832 in 1955.

He also features with Paul Williams on singles released on Josie in 1956. His first 45 with his name-only on it is 'Blues Get Off my Shoulder' on Vee-Jay released in September 1957. One of his biggest early cuts was 'Watch your step' which included a riff nicked by Deep Purple 0n 'Rat Bat Blue' and by The Yardbirds for 'I'm not Talking'. Parker was highly influential for some British guitarists who started out in the 1960s.

I would contend that his recording career never went cold. He records 45s for Sabu, Southern Sound, Loop, Frisky and Shrine - the latter unreleased at the time, between 1963 and 1966. The following year 1967 was a busy year as he releases three 45s. He continues to do session work as well which is harder to follow. Recording opportunities do seem to have stalled after 1970 when he released a 45 on Jay-Walking.

He moved to Brixton in 1969 where he was rather feted. He did some major gigs at iconic venues that included the Royal Albert Hall and the Marquee. He returned Stateside c.1972 where he chose to tour less often although he was a regular on the US Army NCO club circuit.

Rather surprisingly he didn't release an album in his own name until the 1990s when he recorded two albums in New Orleans. My source for this information is a fantastic compilation from 2020 called 'Soul of the Blues: Bobby Parker' with a 24-page booklet containing full discography and sleeve notes by uberfan Martin Newman. No less than fifty two tracks. 

There is no link between Elbie Parker and Bobby Parker.

Thanks Duke ..............great that you liked the compilation ...............but this "elbie" idea didn`t occur to me until very recently when Manship was selling a copy for hundreds of pounds . Saying "elbie" to myself  as L B ...then falling in to Little Bobby .   BP was known as LBP  with the Shrine session ....and is on the Salvador LP of  V-Tone reissues as LBP.............BEST WISHES ...MARTIN (Footpath) PS There is more  BP to come !

 

13 hours ago, Footpath said:

Hi Chalky ....Thanks for the comment. Are you listening just to "Watch your Step" ?    Or perhaps to the cut for the  Shrine label ? Agreed re Discogs ....and I am not relying on that.

However, having compiled and issued all the Bobby Parker tracks known to exist, I have heard  a lot  of his material    and bear in mind , Bobby with the Apollo house orchestra used to sing  other people`s  hits of the day  and could sound like a few different artistes . On his Amanda 45 , he channeled Little Anthony , For  his Southern Sound 45 , it was Larry Williams.    For this Veep record there are some similarities to other records he made around this time.....the trademark use of falsetto for example....but the main one I think is  the stumbling  over-amplified bass guitar figures you hear punctuating the lines of  "Please keep away..."   - very similar to Nat Hall`s "Why..." that Bobby Parker produced.  

I've listened to the Shrine stuff, Watch Your Step and a couple of others and I'm still convinced they sound nothing like each other.  Ellie Parker sounds almost white to me whereas LBP is definitely black, that is very clear.  I'd be very surprised if if Elbie is LBP.  I'd love to know the source those others who claim this use?  

Fair enough , Chalky. There is no source to affirm Elbie is LBP.............it was just an idea that came to me and I wondered if anyone  had information . 

I find it difficult to make that colour judgement......Len Barry ? Roy Head? etc,etc. but Veep was set up for R&B by United Artistes  with artistes like Little Anthony,Garnet Mimms, even Ivory Joe Hunter.

Listen to the  guitar,,,,that`s the strongest evidence that it could be Bobby , Compare it to the Nat Hall 45.

 

12 hours ago, Footpath said:

Thanks Duke ..............great that you liked the compilation ...............but this "elbie" idea didn`t occur to me until very recently when Manship was selling a copy for hundreds of pounds . Saying "elbie" to myself  as L B ...then falling in to Little Bobby .   BP was known as LBP  with the Shrine session ....and is on the Salvador LP of  V-Tone reissues as LBP.............BEST WISHES ...MARTIN (Footpath) PS There is more  BP to come !

 

Duke: Chalky says he thinks  Elbie sounds white ....so couldn`t be  Bobby . Herb Bernstein could at least determine that much (?) Thanks , MARTIN

18 hours ago, Dukeofburgundy said:

This is 'Watch your step' from 1961. Do I hear The Beatles 'I feel fine'  in the riff at the start?

Without doubt, yes.

I'm sure I have seen the Elbie Parker advert and from memory he was a white bloke.I have an Apollo acetate of this 45

32 minutes ago, Footpath said:

Fair enough , Chalky. There is no source to affirm Elbie is LBP.............it was just an idea that came to me and I wondered if anyone  had information . 

I find it difficult to make that colour judgement......Len Barry ? Roy Head? etc,etc. but Veep was set up for R&B by United Artistes  with artistes like Little Anthony,Garnet Mimms, even Ivory Joe Hunter.

Listen to the  guitar,,,,that`s the strongest evidence that it could be Bobby , Compare it to the Nat Hall 45.

 

Len Barry sounds white all day long to my cloth ears?  I'm not saying Elbie is white but he doesn't sound black, not like LBP?  As for the source, I wasn't referring to you but to those who put the alias up on Discogs etc.  As for the guitar?  I would imagine being a Untied Artist label the very best of New York session musicians involved?

3 hours ago, Chalky said:

Len Barry sounds white all day long to my cloth ears?  I'm not saying Elbie is white but he doesn't sound black, not like LBP?  As for the source, I wasn't referring to you but to those who put the alias up on Discogs etc.  As for the guitar?  I would imagine being a Untied Artist label the very best of New York session musicians involved?

Bernstein had access to some of the best session musicians. He may have used Bobby Parker but he certainly used the versatile Jay Berliner and Cornel Dupree during the sixties.

Here is a review from the great John Ridley of the mentioned compilation.

https://www.sirshambling.com/reviews/bobby_parker/index.php

 

Edited October 17, 20231 yr by Dukeofburgundy
additional information

On 16/10/2023 at 15:18, Andy Rix said:

When I visited Herb Bernstein, in NY, he still had the master tapes for Elbie on his shelf ..which prompted me to ask him who Elbie Parker was .. no revelations I'm afraid .. he said he just knew him by that name

Andy

Hi Andy...............Thanks for the interest....If you`re still in touch with Herb (telephone ?) you might put to rest the idea that was taised by a couple ofd people on this thread -  that Elbie was a white  man and so could not be BP. Best wishes, Martin

7 hours ago, Chalky said:

I've listened to the Shrine stuff, Watch Your Step and a couple of others and I'm still convinced they sound nothing like each other.  Ellie Parker sounds almost white to me whereas LBP is definitely black, that is very clear.  I'd be very surprised if if Elbie is LBP.  I'd love to know the source those others who claim this use?  

 A very well known and knowledgeable respected  dealer/collector/writer said to me many years ago Elbie Parker was 'obviously ' blue eyed . I was a bit surprised at the time to be truthful,  the more my ears matured I'd agree he's blue eyed ,however I stand to be corrected as a get out clause lol

Dave L 

My two cents, as someone who has had and enjoyed most of the records in question for years: Elbie Parker's voice sounds nothing like Bobby Parker's. If not for the coincidence of the name similarity, no one hearing their records could ever be talked into thinking they're the same person.

Deffo blue eyed judging by the Lucky Guy side. Lucky Guy co written by L R Brown.......There's an Elbie to consider?

Paul

On 29/03/2024 at 10:02, Our Kid said:

Deffo blue eyed judging by the Lucky Guy side. Lucky Guy co written by L R Brown.......There's an Elbie to consider?

Paul

I think you’re right Paul. I noticed a similarity between Elbie Parker and a record from 1964 by Billy Lee & The Riverias ‘You know’ which co-incidentally was written by L R. Brown

The record wasn’t a success but Billy Lee emerged in the late 60s as Mitch Ryder.

A POP record everyday of the year. Catchy and danceable. True but POP. Played on the Northern S_ul scene amongst other garage or odd folk, jazz and what have you. With a little scarcity factor to make it a N.S. disc.

7 hours ago, Dukeofburgundy said:

I think you’re right Paul. I noticed a similarity between Elbie Parker and a record from 1964 by Billy Lee & The Riverias ‘You know’ which co-incidentally was written by L R. Brown

The record wasn’t a success but Billy Lee emerged in the late 60s as Mitch Ryder.

The Billy Lee & the Rivieras record doesn't show the L.R. Brown credits . Brown was previously working at Fury records then co-composing for for Bob-Crewe. There the Brown connection with Mitch Ryder shows. It all holds water.

So he could have been involved with that early Billy Lee alias Mitch Ryder recording although his credit are not showing (Levise). And if this Veep Elbie is Larry Russel Brown he was the 26 years old when he sang this. Likely possible.

Edited April 1, 20241 yr by Tlscapital

On 16/10/2023 at 18:46, Dukeofburgundy said:

This is 'Watch your step' from 1961. Do I hear The Beatles 'I feel fine'  in the riff at the start?

absolutely,   even the drum pattern.      

  p.s.   its much like 'some other guy' by Richie Barrett, also.

8 minutes ago, Ian Parker said:

absolutely,   even the drum pattern.      

  p.s.   its much like 'some other guy' by Richie Barrett, also.

Lennon said the riff was inspired by " Watch Your Step  " and they used to play the song in early concerts.

i didnt know that ...  its also very like 'what'd i say'    by Ray Charles.  lots of riff borrowing,  over the decades

22 minutes ago, Ian Parker said:

i didnt know that ...  its also very like 'what'd i say'    by Ray Charles.  lots of riff borrowing,  over the decades

Starr also used the drum beat from " What'd I Say ".