Hi all,

Hope this is'nt a repeat thread, but...

I'm pretty new to collecting, and I'm interested to know if people on here would consider buying rare soul and funk 45's as an investment?

Do you think price guides like Manships Price Guide, Tim Browns Guide, Funky Lexicon etc. will help maintain prices for years to come?

I fully understand that both the Northern and the Funk scene are predominantly DJ driven scenes and demand and supply also comes in to it.

So, do you think £5-£10 records will hold there value more so than a £50-£100 records?

Is there anything a young collector should bear in mind when starting to collect original 45's?

Cheers for the help,

Rich.

Hi all,

Hope this is'nt a repeat thread, but...

I'm pretty new to collecting, and I'm interested to know if people on here would consider buying rare soul and funk 45's as an investment?

Do you think price guides like Manships Price Guide, Tim Browns Guide, Funky Lexicon etc. will help maintain prices for years to come?

I fully understand that both the Northern and the Funk scene are predominantly DJ driven scenes and demand and supply also comes in to it.

So, do you think £5-£10 records will hold there value more so than a £50-£100 records?

Is there anything a young collector should bear in mind when starting to collect original 45's?

Cheers for the help,

Rich.

When ever i buy a record i write off the money, i dont look at them as an investment i buy them because i want them, if they are still worth something when i decide to either sell or trade then i try to get the fairest price for them i can.

the price of any given record will go up as well as down depending on the demand for it at that given time so buy to enjoy first and formost or stick your money in a high interest account if you cant afford to gamble.

thats only how i see it though

Bearsy

Cheers Bearsy,

I only buy records that are:

A.) Affordable (for me that means cheap)

B.) I REALLY REALLY like!

Just wondered what your thoughts are on prices in the future? For example do you think a £10 Motown record will hold it's value more so than a fairly rare £100 record?

How do you think Price Guides will affect future prices?

Cheers,

Rich.

Cheers Bearsy,

I only buy records that are:

A.) Affordable (for me that means cheap)

B.) I REALLY REALLY like!

Just wondered what your thoughts are on prices in the future? For example do you think a £10 Motown record will hold it's value more so than a fairly rare £100 record?

How do you think Price Guides will affect future prices?

Cheers,

Rich.

IMHO a £10 motown record will nearly always be just that, a £10 motown record but the thing is it may cost £10 to buy but selling it to return your investment is another matter, the fact that it is a £10 popular record in itself means that most folk that want it will more than likely already own it, on the other hand the rarer the record the more chance of finding a buyer that doesnt own it but would like to,

Like BEARSY said the money ive spent on records over the years ive now written off as expenses of my hobby and if i get a return at the end of it all then thats a bonus,

Pete

Cheers Bearsy,

I only buy records that are:

A.) Affordable (for me that means cheap)

B.) I REALLY REALLY like!

Just wondered what your thoughts are on prices in the future? For example do you think a £10 Motown record will hold it's value more so than a fairly rare £100 record?

How do you think Price Guides will affect future prices?

Cheers,

Rich.

Rich, i agree with Pete on the £10 records.

if you are looking to buy the more expensive and rarer records, lets say £100 ish, then i would advice that you do a bit of homework and find out roughly what they have traded hands for in the past and try to buy them for as little as possible (obviously), but an indemend tune now will be more expensive than it would be if its been played out and hammered by DJs thus it then becoming an overplayed tune that people are now tired of hearing and with that DJs (mainly) will try and sell it for as much as they can to buy the latest indemander to play out (hot boxing).

If you like it and can afford it just buy it as like most you wont end up selling it anyway.

buy what you can afford to buy and when you do make sure the one you are buying is what you really want the most at that time. and learn to lie like hell to your partner about how much they really cost

Bearsy

Cheers Bearsy,

I only buy records that are:

A.) Affordable (for me that means cheap)

B.) I REALLY REALLY like!

Just wondered what your thoughts are on prices in the future? For example do you think a £10 Motown record will hold it's value more so than a fairly rare £100 record?

How do you think Price Guides will affect future prices?

Cheers,

Rich.

Rich, you say you can only afford cheap records, its suprising how quick you can accumulate extra cash for the more expensive records if you cut out other needless luxuries, like FOOD for instsance

Pete

Hi all,

Hope this is'nt a repeat thread, but...

I'm pretty new to collecting, and I'm interested to know if people on here would consider buying rare soul and funk 45's as an investment?

Do you think price guides like Manships Price Guide, Tim Browns Guide, Funky Lexicon etc. will help maintain prices for years to come?

I fully understand that both the Northern and the Funk scene are predominantly DJ driven scenes and demand and supply also comes in to it.

So, do you think £5-£10 records will hold there value more so than a £50-£100 records?

Is there anything a young collector should bear in mind when starting to collect original 45's?

Cheers for the help,

Rich.

Definitely buy records as an investment, but not a financial one though, these purchases should be seen as more of an an investment in your spiritual well being

Buy the records you like, if you like them there's a chance that someone else will like them too, only buy originals and only pay what you can afford. Treat any appreciation in the value of a particular record as a bonus and don't get too concerned if the price of a particular record falls. Don't treat the buying of records as an investment opportunity, treat it as a hobby.

Definitely buy records as an investment, but not a financial one though, these purchases should be seen as more of an an investment in your spiritual well being

Buy the records you like, if you like them there's a chance that someone else will like them too, only buy originals and only pay what you can afford. Treat any appreciation in the value of a particular record as a bonus and don't get too concerned if the price of a particular record falls. Don't treat the buying of records as an investment opportunity, treat it as a hobby.

this is great advice Rich, its what i was also trying to say

classic oldies will probably hold their money

hyped up current in demand 45s will fall in value

one offs and genuine rare records will rise

cheap £5 records may increase in value but if you only pay a fiver then you can only loose a fiver in value.

bootlegs are going silly on ebay sometimes.

if you are buying a bootleg / 2nd issue never pay more than it would cost to get it on a vinyl carvers

and remember if you sell them to a dealer you will only get around 60% of the value so they will have to increase by quiet abit to get your original amount back

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replys.

Sorry, I did'nt mean I wanted to make money. Just wondered what you guys thought will happen to prices of records in the future.

I've never sold a record, and don't really intend to.

Thanks again for the help,

Rich.

classic oldies will probably hold their money

hyped up current in demand 45s will fall in value

one offs and genuine rare records will rise

And how long do you think that will go on for Dave? Given the advancing of most collectors?

And how long do you think that will go on for Dave? Given the advancing of most collectors?

There are lots of younger collectors out there Dave, a significant number outside of the UK.

There are lots of younger collectors out there Dave, a significant number outside of the UK.

Not sure there is a significant number. In Sweden there is probably around 50 people in the ages between 25 and 45 collecting rare soul.

and remember if you sell them to a dealer you will only get around 60% of the value so they will have to increase by quiet abit to get your original amount back

Send me to the dealer who pays 60% of the value... i've got about £10k worth of sales that I wouldn't mind letting go at 60% of their book price LOL...

What the hell, i'd let them have them for 50% and I'd throw the boxes in for free.

Back in the real world...

Dealers will only pay top whack on current indemand items that they have got guaranteed sales for.

Everything else, I reckon youd be doing ok at 30 - 35% of book price.

i agree with joe, however even collectors at nitere rarely pay more than 75% of book or list price, trust me im one of them and records under£30 are 2 a penny if you know what i mean, just got to have the right ones peole want, thats the trick, but i havent!!!

joe just noticed you got the euro globe trotters on at backbeat next time! coming back on eurotrain are they????

Not sure there is a significant number. In Sweden there is probably around 50 people in the ages between 25 and 45 collecting rare soul.

...ok but if you add in Norway, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, USA, we're starting to get a healthy number together....Steve

joe just noticed you got the euro globe trotters on at backbeat next time! coming back on eurotrain are they????

Tardis I think...

I think the price of vinyl will go up in the next few years if the Hotbox DJ practise , starts to spread even further .

The younger element ( yep they are mostly outside of the UK ) will start to find their own vinyls , within genres like funk , r&b , boogie , disco , steppers Jamaican soul etc etc . In fact its already happening.

Simon

Edited April 18, 200718 yr by Simon M

...ok but if you add in Norway, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, USA, we're starting to get a healthy number together....Steve

...yep starting! Usa collectors is a bit of a grey zone for me but the European scene outside England is small compared to England even if you add them together. In most European countries listening to black music is an exotic thing not to mention rare soul. So Steve - all your hope getting rid of your records when you're older you can put on hotboxing!!

...ok but if you add in Norway, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, USA, we're starting to get a healthy number together....Steve

ANd Mexico

Cheers

Rich, you say you can only afford cheap records, its suprising how quick you can accumulate extra cash for the more expensive records if you cut out other needless luxuries, like FOOD for instsance

Pete

i havent eaten in 2 years ... actually, ive managed to still collect my records from the afterlife by way of a medium.

Buy what you like and don't think of price as that way in years to come it might be collectors. But i like to save money so that in time i can go out with say £20 and come back with a record.

I am not a major collector of Northern but if i buy it ends up going in my dad's collections, as told why bother to buy a Northern soul record for like £15 when my dad can buy it and i can buy something else like funk or disco or slow soul track or pop, rock, indie, punk etc

So Steve - all your hope getting rid of your records when you're older you can put on hotboxing!!

Oh I better sell up now then

Seriously, I fully intend to keep my records, regardless of what happens over the next 10,20,30 years.

Oh I better sell up now then

Seriously, I fully intend to keep my records, regardless of what happens over the next 10,20,30 years.

A few may sell up but im with you on this one Steve

Send me to the dealer who pays 60% of the value... i've got about £10k worth of sales that I wouldn't mind letting go at 60% of their book price LOL...

What the hell, i'd let them have them for 50% and I'd throw the boxes in for free.

Back in the real world...

Dealers will only pay top whack on current indemand items that they have got guaranteed sales for.

Everything else, I reckon youd be doing ok at 30 - 35% of book price.

i was qouted around this for some items that i was selling by a dealer but this amount was for the well known stuff that they could move on quickly ie in demand oldies etc

and i said 60% of value not book price as we all know book price is often higher than what things go for.

Send me to the dealer who pays 60% of the value... i've got about £10k worth of sales that I wouldn't mind letting go at 60% of their book price LOL...

What the hell, i'd let them have them for 50% and I'd throw the boxes in for free.

Back in the real world...

Dealers will only pay top whack on current indemand items that they have got guaranteed sales for.

Everything else, I reckon youd be doing ok at 30 - 35% of book price.

You are right there, but thats because ridiculous prices in guides for common records make people think they have more moneys worth than they really do - example, someone was selling a Majestics Strange World on here the other day and quoted a book price of £80, now everyone knows that record isn't worth more than £20 but they see it in a book for £80 so they are going to want at least half that. meanwhile, no dealer would buy it even at £20 because it's impossible to sell.

And how long do you think that will go on for Dave? Given the advancing of most collectors?

depends on who has the money , if young people have the ready cash available then it will keep going but if the scene just keeps relying on older peoples money then it may slow down.

it depends on how the scene wants to go , if younger collectors djs etc are encouraged then they will be interested in buying vinyl , if its just the same older crowd then the young people will not spend their money and wait till the older people on the scene sell up or pass on and then they will be able to start buying as the tunes become available

I think there will start to become a huge demand for late 80s/early 90s R&B things within the near future. There already is somewhat, but it hasn't hit huge yet. There will always be new things to collect, as long as people are still making music. Prices will waiver, but there will always be a "hot new thing" in vinyl collecting.

Oh I better sell up now then

Seriously, I fully intend to keep my records, regardless of what happens over the next 10,20,30 years.

Blimey Steve , even Gary is selling some of his 35000 plus records now ,

I sold at the top of the market. All my British demos went: Alexander Patton, Incredibles, about 60 TMG red and whites, Donald Height and loads of other London stuff.

I made nearly £3,000.

It was a lot of money in 1979.

Definitely buy records as an investment, but not a financial one though, these purchases should be seen as more of an an investment in your spiritual well being

Buy the records you like, if you like them there's a chance that someone else will like them too, only buy originals and only pay what you can afford. Treat any appreciation in the value of a particular record as a bonus and don't get too concerned if the price of a particular record falls. Don't treat the buying of records as an investment opportunity, treat it as a hobby.

Bang on!!!!.........Also put on Soul Nights in your local area........Provide all your mates and family with CDs of your treasured originals.............start ambigous internet things....................in fact do anything you can to promote this amazing music which we LOVE

And before you know it.............. the town is dancing to "Soul" again

For most fans IMO Soul is a passion ...........not an investment ? A Sort of a Vinyl Cocaine habit ?

more of an an investment in your spiritual well being

Buy the records you like,

these are wise words and ones which i hold to myself..it is essential to actually like the record otherwise its a commodity and as such will have no meaning to you other than purely financial....you will become a stockbroker...nothing else.

i only buy records i like i am never interested in other peoples opinions of records only my own whether its a 99c buy or a £5000 record.

i know what sounds i like and dont care if no one else does..

BUY WHAT YOU LIKE it aids your spiritual well being to quote seamus

Edited April 19, 200718 yr by souljazera

...yep starting! Usa collectors is a bit of a grey zone for me but the European scene outside England is small compared to England even if you add them together. In most European countries listening to black music is an exotic thing not to mention rare soul. So Steve - all your hope getting rid of your records when you're older you can put on hotboxing!!

I agree, the number of collectors outside the UK is highly overestimated I believe, even if you put them all together it is just a piss in the ocean compared to the UK. It is the UK soul scene that sets the demand and prices, without it it would all pretty much collapse.

All I've read on here is good advice, and very true.

I think it's a real pity though when records go up to ridiculous figures, as I'll never be able to buy them, and that's not offset by a similar rise in value of those I already own, as I'm unlikely to sell those in the near future. (If I can help it)

I think you should only buy Soul records because you like Soul music. If you want an "good investment" find something else, otherwise you're making the situation worse than it is already.

Edited April 19, 200718 yr by mel brat

Bang on!!!!.........Also put on Soul Nights in your local area........Provide all your mates and family with CDs of your treasured originals.............start ambigous internet things....................in fact do anything you can to promote this amazing music which we LOVE

And before you know it.............. the town is dancing to "Soul" again

For most fans IMO Soul is a passion ...........not an investment ? A Sort of a Vinyl Cocaine habit ?

Hear, hear!

Bang on!!!!.........Also put on Soul Nights in your local area........Provide all your mates and family with CDs of your treasured originals.............start ambigous internet things....................in fact do anything you can to promote this amazing music which we LOVE

And before you know it.............. the town is dancing to "Soul" again

For most fans IMO Soul is a passion ...........not an investment ? A Sort of a Vinyl Cocaine habit ?

hear hear from me too,

that sounds so refreshing to read and hear if you were talking it, im suprised you aint been slated for not trying to keep it all to yourself and underground, long live vynil cocaine

I think the price of vinyl will go up in the next few years if the Hotbox DJ practise , starts to spread even further .

The younger element ( yep they are mostly outside of the UK ) will start to find their own vinyls , within genres like funk , r&b , boogie , disco , steppers Jamaican soul etc etc . In fact its already happening.

Simon

simon there is a fundamental flaw to this argument most people who dj outside of our small but admittedly resssuring scene will play on ipod /download./compilation/bootleg an original doesnt hold any sway with them at all..

i do see the price of vinyl going up and down fluctuating like a commodities market dependent on what is popular or not..

i have materially benefitted from hot boxing but its not something i especially like..

classic oldies will probably hold their money WHAT DEALERS REFER TO AS EVERGREENS!!!

simon there is a fundamental flaw to this argument most people who dj outside of our small but admittedly resssuring scene will play on ipod /download./compilation/bootleg an original doesnt hold any sway with them at all..

Well I know quite a few people outside of the UK who use original vinyl when they DJ ... I even met a few at Yarmouth !! You need to get to some European gigs Tony ..

Well I know quite a few people outside of the UK who use original vinyl when they DJ ... I even met a few at Yarmouth !! You need to get to some European gigs Tony ..

i did say outside our small but reassuring scene

most young people laugh at the very nature of paying for records these days...we live in the age of downloading madness...even on hear people share cdr/refosoul clips!! etc

this was unthinkable even 10 years ago i dont think having original records means anything to younger people 14-21 yearolds..lets face it our common youth experiences bear no relevance to todays interactive/technological generation..

european gigs ...mmmmmm....who pays for the flight..??? bloody hell i can hardly afford the bus fare into leeds these days .... i got treated too well in the early 90;s with house and garage...now thats another story

i did say outside our small but reassuring scene

most young people laugh at the very nature of paying for records these days...we live in the age of downloading madness...even on hear people share cdr/refosoul clips!! etc

this was unthinkable even 10 years ago i dont think having original records means anything to younger people 14-21 yearolds..lets face it our common youth experiences bear no relevance to todays interactive/technological generation..

european gigs ...mmmmmm....who pays for the flight..??? bloody hell i can hardly afford the bus fare into leeds these days .... i got treated too well in the early 90;s with house and garage...now thats another story

Kids still use original or special vinyl alongside laptop software ..its the cd that looks passe now

Euro gig wise ...Im sure Wrighty can tell you about his european playboy antics at various venues

Cheers

Simon

ps. I spent a lot of money on interaction in the old days ..Phone calls tapes , petrol etc ..Its just a lot faster and cheaper now and global

Edited April 19, 200718 yr by Simon M

i have materially benefitted from hot boxing but its not something i especially like..

What's that mean in English?

i did say outside our small but reassuring scene

most young people laugh at the very nature of paying for records these days...we live in the age of downloading madness...even on hear people share cdr/refosoul clips!! etc

this was unthinkable even 10 years ago i dont think having original records means anything to younger people 14-21 yearolds..lets face it our common youth experiences bear no relevance to todays interactive/technological generation..

european gigs ...mmmmmm....who pays for the flight..??? bloody hell i can hardly afford the bus fare into leeds these days .... i got treated too well in the early 90;s with house and garage...now thats another story

My son and his mates put on nights of soul, funk, hip-hop, house etc and they play from vinyl only.. it certainly means something to them.

My son and his mates put on nights of soul, funk, hip-hop, house etc and they play from vinyl only.. it certainly means something to them.

Yes... but if you think about the people born in say... 1992, they are 15 years old now and the absolute majority of these people have NEVER EVER owned a purchased "official" record and have probably never even cared about owning one either. They've had music around them during their teen years blasting from computers, portable MP3-players, mobile-phones etc. This has been the "normal" way to consume music. So why go to the trouble and buy music on a form of media (CD) which you then have to dump into your computer in order to be able to play in your MP3-player? It's better to cut out the "middle man" and download immediately.

There will always be people, like your son and his mates, who have a special interest and collects vinyl/CDs/etc. but when it comes to the majority of people, records will have little or no relevance to future generations. Once agan, this concerns the MAJORITY of people, not people on a specific scene which has a tradition of collecting actual records.

I'm personally convinced that in the long run this is a good thing and I welcome endless choice and availability.

Saying that... I will most likely be collecting and buying records as long as I live...

Rich, you say you can only afford cheap records, its suprising how quick you can accumulate extra cash for the more expensive records if you cut out other needless luxuries, like FOOD for instsance

Pete

Isn't that "Food for Funk"

Mal.C.

Saying that... I will most likely be collecting and buying records as long as I live...

ME TOO

got me busfare ready for lifeline...vinyl all night long....

Yes... but if you think about the people born in say... 1992, they are 15 years old now and the absolute majority of these people have NEVER EVER owned a purchased "official" record and have probably never even cared about owning one either. They've had music around them during their teen years blasting from computers, portable MP3-players, mobile-phones etc. This has been the "normal" way to consume music. So why go to the trouble and buy music on a form of media (CD) which you then have to dump into your computer in order to be able to play in your MP3-player? It's better to cut out the "middle man" and download immediately.

There will always be people, like your son and his mates, who have a special interest and collects vinyl/CDs/etc. but when it comes to the majority of people, records will have little or no relevance to future generations. Once agan, this concerns the MAJORITY of people, not people on a specific scene which has a tradition of collecting actual records.

I'm personally convinced that in the long run this is a good thing and I welcome endless choice and availability.

Saying that... I will most likely be collecting and buying records as long as I live...

I would say the majority of people in their 30's and 40's have little or no interest in vinyl, so that's not exclusive to 15yo's. The big difference is that my lad buys/borrows my, vinyl purely according to his taste for a record, detached from any scene or preoccupation with rarity etc, and that principle does not bode well for the rare, high priced records.

I agree, the number of collectors outside the UK is highly overestimated I believe, even if you put them all together it is just a piss in the ocean compared to the UK. It is the UK soul scene that sets the demand and prices, without it it would all pretty much collapse.

Really don't know, but I think the Japaneese is a big scene when it comes to buying and setting prices. Maybe they're not as big as in UK, but they certanly pay as much as any british collector.

this was unthinkable even 10 years ago i dont think having original records means anything to younger people 14-21 yearolds..lets face it our common youth experiences bear no relevance to todays interactive/technological generation..

There you are absolutely wrong. Of course, if you look at the common mall stupid highschool teens, then yes, they're not interested in original records at all. They're not even interested in music. I mean, buying original CDs of Fall Out Boy or Christina Aguilera is the same as buying bootlegs

Here in Mexico, the scene is very young. The first originals DJ is about 27 years old. The rest of the collectors and DJs are younger, and they're more than you think. Most of them ska-rocksteady-reggae fans, we're only two in the city collecting soul. There are some sh*ty "DJs" who play from iPod and stuff, but, in most of the cases there's still some respect for the original 45s...

BTW, I'm 16

CHeers

Dante

Edited April 21, 200718 yr by Dante

The question of "I'm interested to know if people on here would consider buying rare soul and funk 45's as an investment?

Do you think price guides like Manships Price Guide, Tim Browns Guide, Funky Lexicon etc. will help maintain prices for years to come?"

Collecting any thing as an investment is a risk, just about every thing in life is a risk. An example would be Frank Wilson's "Do I love you indeed I do", the price would surely plummet if a tea chest full of em was discovered? Highly unlikely but demand and availability play the part. The next million dollar rule of thumb is that some thing is worth as much as some one else is willing to pay.

No price guide can ever maintain a price; it can only be used as a reference just as a car "book" price is used as and when but has little to no bearing on the price when selling your car or buying a car, reference only.

Bearsy's comment "When ever i buy a record i write off the money, i dont look at them as an investment i buy them because i want them, if they are still worth something when i decide to either sell or trade then i try to get the fairest price for them i can." Is spot on!!!

If ya wanna invest then there are better places to put your hard earned for an investment.

Music is as fragile as a heart beat and the flutter of a butterflies wing. I think you need to talk to your bank manager, unless the fooker is wearing 40" bags and a Fred Perry!!

The last place to ask about investing money is a fookin internet forum LOL where the likes of me get a chance to lard it up!! Lol.

If I drop down dead tomorrow my wife can sell my records & make a profit but if I live to an old age I don't care what happens to the price cuz I wont be selling 'em anyway. Mind you, if the price did crash think of all the goodies I could buy.