Can't get my head round this. I just bought a Paris Blues Mala stock copy off Ebay for £125. I was the only bidder. A year ago this record would have gone for £300. It's "in the book" at £350. What on earth is happening?

(p.s. FOR SALE - TONY MIDDLETON - PARIS BLUES - MALA ISSUE £225 )

This reducing things slowly until they sell is a great approach. Prehaps not for you but for us buyers it gets to a point where things are bound to sell. I now check your site regulary because of this.

When I saw that LH&Memphis Sound for £30 I couldn't believe it and snapped it up.

Now I may be wrong but I always rated it a lot higher in vaue.

"House full of rooms" is great.

cheers for that one.

Aye, that started life at £100 too

I'll continue to do it though, cos as a collector myself I do tend to buy off guys who sell at reasonable prices and also treat you with respect and not just see you as a cash cow! So a bargain every now and then does no one any harm

Cheers

Steve

Aye, that started life at £100 too

I'll continue to do it though, cos as a collector myself I do tend to buy off guys who sell at reasonable prices and also treat you with respect and not just see you as a cash cow! So a bargain every now and then does no one any harm

Cheers

Steve

I had the same problem with that record, I think I sold the WD for £25!

LH&Memphis

its a bloody great record. This is just the kind of thing i'm looking to buy and if they get that low then i'll have em every time.

but based on your experiences i'd be nervous about carrying a spare unless it was stupidly cheap.

Aye, that started life at £100 too

I'll continue to do it though, cos as a collector myself I do tend to buy off guys who sell at reasonable prices and also treat you with respect and not just see you as a cash cow! So a bargain every now and then does no one any harm

Cheers

Steve

its the win some loose some approach that you have to adopt. Now i'll pay a going rate for a 45 from you and think "oh well LH was cheap so over the 2 i'm about right" I took a punt on that Curtis Walker thing on Jigga Ray. Would normally have waited, looked around for a chpeaper one but i had some credit with you so it didn't seem too bad.

thats also a nice 45 btw.

its the win some loose some approach that you have to adopt. Now i'll pay a going rate for a 45 from you and think "oh well LH was cheap so over the 2 i'm about right" I took a punt on that Curtis Walker thing on Jigga Ray. Would normally have waited, looked around for a chpeaper one but i had some credit with you so it didn't seem too bad.

thats also a nice 45 btw.

Yes, that's a good approach to adopt and fits in with what i was saying about folks you buy off regularly too

btw CW is down to what seems a fair price now too!

It was a £100 45 not too long ago BUT i'm guessing a 25-50 count box was found in the US very recently so it's come right down to a more realistic price now! This is what I also think happened to Jeter (although that was a number of years ago!)

Funny that, because that probably wouldn't happen if it was a Northern 45 that was found in quantity - I bet folks could name lots of Northern 45's that have been found in quantity and yet still retain their 'original' price! But there again, if supply outstrips demand then fair enough

Cheers

Steve

Prices are defo on a go slow at the mo... Only bargains and rare stuff going.

Put a faultless copy of Janie Grant - My Heart - Parkway on EBay, 3 bids..... ......highest £66

Wasnt long back one sold on Manships Auction for £££'s

Ah well looks like bread and jam for the next few months!!!

Prices are defo on a go slow at the mo... Only bargains and rare stuff going.

Put a faultless copy of Janie Grant - My Heart - Parkway on EBay, 3 bids..... ......highest £66

Wasnt long back one sold on Manships Auction for £££'s

Ah well looks like bread and jam for the next few months!!!

I think it'll be good to hear mr. JM's opinion on this topic...

Manship Auctions deserve a whole thread for them, though.

Last thursday & arrived 28us postage yesterday & machine stamped orig see there a few copies doing the rounds ?

I must have missed this one , was it recently ?

I've just spent a couple of hours looking on several record sites and there seems to be a huge amount of the same type of records listed and some stick out more than others things like Carol And Gerri - MGM £300.00, Metros - RCA £150.00, The Ringleaders - M-Pac - seen that for £400.00, Bobbi Smith - American Arts - £150.00 and the list goes on, many of these titles are it would seem simply not that rare or hard to find, it must be a minefield dealing in records these days, as it's already been said the big ticket items and the odd ball bargains seem to be selling but the £50.00 to £400.00 records seem to be very slow to sell, the fact is that many of us are sitting on these types of records, most of mine i did'nt pay anything like the current prices for so it makes little or no sense to sell them? however if you want to buy other records and harder to find items then sometimes needs must and all that.

It's funny but the big classic records like Sam Williams, Jimmy Burns, Dena Barnes, Billy Prophet, Jimmie Raye, George Blackwell, Bobby Kline, Ronnie McNeir, Willie Hutch, Melvin Davis (Wheel City) and records of that ilk seem to pretty much hold their book price perhaps because they are generally rare and or timeless records? Some of the other stuff as mentioned above are i feel still good records but should not demand the inflated prices when there are hundreds of copies out there in circulation. Of course demand of a tune often increases the price for a short time and sometimes waiting a little longer rather than buying it straight a way will save you a small fortune, hard i know if you are DJ'ing but not so bad for the collectors. Please don't get me wrong a good record is a good record whatever the price but my general rule of thought is if there are a huge number of copies found then this should reflect the price, that's how i thought it has always worked? Still it must be a hard one to call if a twenty five count box or more is found of a real monster rare tune worth big money, nice problem to have but what do you do?, leek them out one at a time for big money or flood the market at a lower selling price? of course this has happened in the past, Danny Moore, Royal Esquires spring to mind still good records and just meant more people could locate a copy but the big ticket price fell dramatically.

I feel you have to study the market place, check all the web sites, follow the pattern on Ebay which i personally don't get involved with anymore but still have a look and as already confirmed here you will see the same type of records popping up on a weekly basis like Bobby Read - Bell, Wade Flemmons - Ramsel (Jeanette), Metros as mentioned etc. etc. like i said it's a minefield but there is a pattern there as i'm sure you are all aware of.

There seems to be a huge amount of records which are simply too over priced and are simply not selling in the volume they once did, i think most of us are happy to sit on what we have, swap, trade, buy the odd thing here and there but have become very selective in what we buy? prices are falling slowly on some titles and will level out and we will get back to more realistic valuations on the more common stuff, the rare end of the market will continue to amaze and suprise us, nice when you already have them but a different story if you want them....lol having said that even some of the final auction prices fail to meet the book prices so it's basically down to if only one person wants it then you will get the records at a fair price, get two or three people after a biggie and that's when the prices hit a premium.........still gives me a buzz this record collecting lark!

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I think it'll be good to hear mr. JM's opinion on this topic...

Manship Auctions deserve a whole thread for them, though.

We receive between 8 million & 10 million "hits" a month on our site, we have full data on every title we have had in stock over the last 8 years. Every copy, who it sold to, condition, how long it was in stock before it sold. Every speck of imformation to determine the price of the next listing.

We also have diligent staff who tell me if a record on our mail shots, gets asked for more than once in a day or a short period of time.

I think a few dealers are missing the point of RETAIL not just record retail but being a retailer. Me nor Craig Moerer or anyone with a similar operation "CHANGE" prices because the record isn't selling quick enough.

If you do that, all that happens is you reduce your sales, as collectors wait for the "price drop". I'm afraid some of the posters on this thread have now achieved a reputation for the "price drop method"

Panic selling makes any market fragile, whether it be shares or records or frying pans.

E-bay is certainly now a place for a bargain, there's no two ways about I've listed solid RARE Reggae, Rock, Punk etc only to see them achieve af raction of what we would sell at on the site. So I am now reluctant to list on e-bay, as are other dealers with a customer network of their own.

All I know is we are busier than ever, the markets not weakening but some sellers do need to sell quickly to keep the stock moving. Most all of the records on this thread we list @ a price and sell @ a price. Start of the thread was the Tony Middleton 45.. our data shows in the last 8 years we have sold 3 stock copies & 6 Dj copies none were sold for less than £300.

The market is certainly NOT slowing, but some dealers are selling cheaper and E-bay bidders expect a bargain and usually get one.

With John Manship Records you get your order mailed the same day, you get a 7 day guarantee for a non-quibble return for whatever reason and most importantly you get a product as described. And we don't change price unless the data suggests it needs to happen.

The market is stronger than ever. I know Craig Moerer is rushed off his feet and we certainly are. We consider exposure in the market place, service and depth of product are all key factors in price & volume of sales. Not the number of customers buying, which is raising all the time.

So don't panic Mr. Mannering, the Russians are coming...

Edited July 18, 200717 yr by john manship

Why rely on record price guides when the editors are major record dealers? If something like 65% of "rare soul" records placed on ebay never reach more than two thirds of the "price guides" value then one should take good note IMO. Popspike is very helpful in this respect.

Me nor Craig Moerer or anyone with a similar operation "CHANGE" prices because the record isn't selling quick enough.

And we don't change price unless the data suggests it needs to happen.

So don't panic Mr. Mannering, the Russians are coming...

Out of interest John, what does make your prices drop? Discovery of a quantity? Record going out of fashion?

I think a few dealers are missing the point of RETAIL not just record retail but being a retailer. Me nor Craig Moerer or anyone with a similar operation "CHANGE" prices because the record isn't selling quick enough.

If you do that, all that happens is you reduce your sales, as collectors wait for the "price drop". I'm afraid some of the posters on this thread have now achieved a reputation for the "price drop method"

Panic selling makes any market fragile, whether it be shares or records or frying pans.

This is all very well when you've got thousands and thousands of records in stock to fall back on, and good luck to you, but when you've got a budget of zero and you have to buy records individually hoping they'll be certain sellers, you just cannot afford to have the records stay on the shelf John. It's not my fault that I can't afford to buy them in bulk but I have over £1000 of outgoings each month and have to support a family, I can assure you there is no money left over for buying records so I simply have to sell the ones I've got, and if they don't sell for one price, they drop the next week. Oh to be able to afford not to do that.

Out of interest John, what does make your prices drop? Discovery of a quantity? Record going out of fashion?

Usually condition is the only reason that makes me drop the price, we have over 16,000 customers on file, so quanity rarely becomes a factor. Out of fashion isn't either usually a factor as many 45s go out of fashion and then back in again; also many, many 45s crossover "scenes" with countless Northern Soul 45s, wanted for the flipside or in other countries or collectable by completists home and abroad.

AS for the other question refering to price guides, that is exactly what they are GUIDES. As we have said in the past and in the notes all our GUIDES prices inc: VAT and are for records in MINT minus condition with no label defects, at the the price WE sell them for. GUIDES are just guides, they are NOT bibles. You should maybe buy them for the same reason I do, to expand your knowledge, i buy every guide for every type of music and am thankful people have put them together, but that's just me I like to learn as much as I can.

I'm just a bout to sell a mint Vanguards (Good times bad times) and a mint Silhouettes (Not me baby) and Gene Toones (What more do you want) , if anyone can give me a rough guide as to current values I'd be grateful, I've got something written down but not sure if it's right!...

This is all very well when you've got thousands and thousands of records in stock to fall back on, and good luck to you, but when you've got a budget of zero and you have to buy records individually hoping they'll be certain sellers, you just cannot afford to have the records stay on the shelf John. It's not my fault that I can't afford to buy them in bulk but I have over £1000 of outgoings each month and have to support a family, I can assure you there is no money left over for buying records so I simply have to sell the ones I've got, and if they don't sell for one price, they drop the next week. Oh to be able to afford not to do that.

Totally agree Pete, it is the personal situation that ditates any business decision. Last year I sold aTamla Motown 45 I bought at college in 1970 I recognised the guys name on the sticker.

I do think that is it wasn't for the fact we sell all types of music and our stock spans almost 40 years of buying, we may well approach it differently. But from my experience eveything sells in the end. As for overheads... I think we've ALL got too many of those..

This is all very well when you've got thousands and thousands of records in stock to fall back on, and good luck to you, but when you've got a budget of zero and you have to buy records individually hoping they'll be certain sellers, you just cannot afford to have the records stay on the shelf John. It's not my fault that I can't afford to buy them in bulk but I have over £1000 of outgoings each month and have to support a family, I can assure you there is no money left over for buying records so I simply have to sell the ones I've got, and if they don't sell for one price, they drop the next week. Oh to be able to afford not to do that.

PS Overheads?? .. you wait until VAT gets ya!

Edited July 18, 200717 yr by john manship

This is all very well when you've got thousands and thousands of records in stock to fall back on, and good luck to you, but when you've got a budget of zero and you have to buy records individually hoping they'll be certain sellers, you just cannot afford to have the records stay on the shelf John. It's not my fault that I can't afford to buy them in bulk but I have over £1000 of outgoings each month and have to support a family, I can assure you there is no money left over for buying records so I simply have to sell the ones I've got, and if they don't sell for one price, they drop the next week. Oh to be able to afford not to do that.

Just to give me a final kick in the balls, my little boy has a shelf of crap records which he likes to put on the deck while I hold him and he speeds it up and presses the reject button etc etc, I'm afraid his favourite record is a bootleg of Mickey Mouse Concerto In E Minor by Cartoon Candy Carnival, he's even rescued this one from the bin and he can also spot it in a bunch of 10 or so other records

what a weird and wonderful scene we've got!!

If a record get plays by certain dj's,the search is on to acquire said toon,price goes up,records sell out and are buried in collections,no problem with that.

If a record is re-discovered and cheap,same again.

If a record is a proven rariety,you pay the price according to who's selling, what they want for it at the time,and your funds.

If you get a real bargain,how many jump on the phone to tell all and sundry to "go get one yourself",before the price rise?

Pay only what you can afford,after all we are controlling the market........are'nt we??

BTW....what constitutes a "rare" record? What quantities are we talking about,after 50,100, 200?.Is the market "swamped" at 200?

Totally agree Pete, it is the personal situation that ditates any business decision. Last year I sold aTamla Motown 45 I bought at college in 1970 I recognised the guys name on the sticker.

I do think that is it wasn't for the fact we sell all types of music and our stock spans almost 40 years of buying, we may well approach it differently. But from my experience eveything sells in the end. As for overheads... I think we've ALL got too many of those..

Personally it wasn't going too bad until my missus packed in her 18 grand a year job for NO REASON WHATSOEVER four years ago which meant that mine was the only income we had, not that I hold it against her or anything...but that money helped to buy records. Of course another factor is that I won't fly otherwise I could have gone to America years and years ago. And also I tend to spend money on reggae records which should really be spent on nappies...

what a weird and wonderful scene we've got!!

If a record get plays by certain dj's,the search is on to acquire said toon,price goes up,records sell out and are buried in collections,no problem with that.

If a record is re-discovered and cheap,same again.

If a record is a proven rariety,you pay the price according to who's selling, what they want for it at the time,and your funds.

If you get a real bargain,how many jump on the phone to tell all and sundry to "go get one yourself",before the price rise?

Pay only what you can afford,after all we are controlling the market........are'nt we??

BTW....what constitutes a "rare" record? What quantities are we talking about,after 50,100, 200?.Is the market "swamped" at 200?

what constitutes a "rare" record?

We had well over 300 Gerri Hall's, 1000 Epitome Of Sounds, 100 Donna King's, 400 Maurice Williams, 300 Lydia Marcelles, 350 Ty Karims - Ebony we are out of stock of all of them now, if that clarifies your question.

This scene is far far bigger than most collectors realize.. and as you correctly stated,yes at the end of the day it is collectors & DJs who control prices.

Edited July 18, 200717 yr by john manship

THERE'S 5% OF RECORDS GUARANTEED TO SELL FOR VALUE OR ABOVE,

THE REST ARE FODDER AND THE MONEY AVAILABLE/CIRCULATING FOR THE 95% ARE HELD BY A LOW PERCENTAGE OF COLLECTOR/DEALERS FOR STOCK OR TO FINANCE THEIR LIMITED (EXPENSIVE) WANTS TURNOVER.

VENUES ARE FULL OF RECORDS OF WHICH ONLY SMALL PERCENTAGES ARE DESIRABLE TO MOST FANS, THE FODDER CIRCULATES IN AN EFFORT TO CHANGE STOCK VIEWS.

BEST IF THE PRICE REALLY BOTTOMS, AS IT MOST DEF IS SLIPPING DOWNWARDS AT A RATE OF KNOTS, LOWER PRICES MEANS MORE PROMOTION OF THE GENRE TO WIDER AUDIENCES, ALTHOUGH THE DISPOSABLE INCOME ASPECT IS RELEVENT, THOSE WITH THAT 'EXTRA' ARE FINDING THEY CAN HAVE CAKE AND EAT IT. GONE ARE THE NUMEROUS BIG HITTERS SPENDING SPREE'S, GONE SERIOUS OVERSEA'S INTEREST IN THE MONEY HYPERMARKET OF NORTHERN SOUL. THE NOVELTY FOR THEM HAS ALL BUT BECOME PART OF THEIR BLAISE UNDERSTANDING OF THE SCENE ANYWAY, OPERATIVE WORD 'NOVELTY'

THERE'S SO MUCH OUT THERE THAT IT BEGS THE QUESTION WE USED TO BE AMAZED BY YEARS AGO, 'THE REST OF THE BOX' MUST BE OUT THERE. SINCE GLOBAL NETWORKING ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO LIMIT DISCS TO SO MANY KNOWN COPIES, BECAUSE WHO HAS THE DATA BASE TO PROVE OTHERWISE, SITES LIKE THIS HAVE UNDOUBTABLY NARROWED THE FIELD, BUT ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO MONITOR EVERYTHING AND HOLD IT FOR ALL TO VIEW IN 'CONCISE' VERSION, AT THE END ALL INFORMATION IS 'REAL' AND WHOLE AND WILL TAKE THE SAME TIME TO VIEW IN FULL- LIKE A SOUNDWAVE TRACE, OR IN FACT THE EXPANDING THEORY OF THE UNIVERSE, WHICH BY ALL ACCOUNTS WILL REDUCE INTO THE SAME SPACE IT COMES FROM.

RECENTLY, LIKE YOU ALL IVE HAD CONSISTENT CHEAP QUALITY DISCS, THAT HAVE SET ME ALL A FLUTTER SOMETIMES, RUBBING MY HANDS A LA FAGIN STYLE, BUT IVE REALISED THIS IS A 'WHOLE GENRE' THING AND MY RUBBING WILL BE IN VAIN.

CANT WAIT FOR THE BUBBLE REALLY TO IMPLODE AND WATCH, ONCE AGAIN, PHILLATIC ITEMS FETCH MONEY AGAIN (ALL GOOD ANORAKS KNOW STAMP TRENDS). ITEMS LABELLED FUNK/POPCORN/R&B/ ARE EXTENTIONS OF OUR SCENES MUSIC AND THE DIVISION WEAKENS NORTHERN PRICES----THE QUICKER THE BETTER---UNTILL THERE WILL ONLY BE US 27 SOULS LEFT. NEW BLOOD SEEMS SLOW TO TAKE UP WITH US-ITS WHAT WE NEED, AND NOT ALL OUR TWENTY SOMETHING SONS!

WHEN IT DOES IMPLODE ANY ONE WANT TO SELL ME..............................................

ANYWAY IVE A REALLY GREAT INVESTMENT OPP FOR THOSE MILLIONAIRES WHO'S BUMS WILL BE FLUTTERING AT THE THOUGHT OF DOWN TRENDS IN RARE SOUL CONTACT ME AT ENCHANTED RYTHM STAMPS AND PHILATERLY, PURVEYORS OF FINE UNMOUNTED MINT STOCKS.............EX STANLEY GIBBONS

£27 YESTERDAY

PS Overheads?? .. you wait until VAT gets ya!

No I didn't say 'oveheads' I said 'outgoings'...

I'm just a bout to sell a mint Vanguards (Good times bad times) and a mint Silhouettes (Not me baby) and Gene Toones (What more do you want) , if anyone can give me a rough guide as to current values I'd be grateful, I've got something written down but not sure if it's right!...

Three great tunes that would grace any dj playlists!

Vanguards hasn't really got a set sale price, twas £40 about 5 years ago & has gone for over a grand if i recall in recent times due to being in vogue etc. - I'd put it up for auction & let it fly!

Silhouettes - Seen this up for sale a couple of times recently, think Mark Freeman might have had one for about £600 a while back, didn't JM sell one for a grand + a couple of years back on auction, i may have dreamt all this though.

Gene Toones - A tune i've always wanted, remember when the 'For Millionaires' CD first came out, it was then valued at £700, i reckon you could easily get £1500 for it now although i would say £1200 would be a fair price but with so many people after it you could almost name your price.

Simon

hi pete

toones was sold for over 3k on tim brown auction (twice) and over 2.4 on jm all white demos

vanguards i would auction and agree with simon

hi pete

toones was sold for over 3k on tim brown auction (twice) and over 2.4 on jm all white demos

'Kinell, 3k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's just crazy, fantastic record yes but...........

Simon

Three great tunes that would grace any dj playlists!

Vanguards hasn't really got a set sale price, twas £40 about 5 years ago

Simon

what one guy making a mistake with one copy ?

or loads of copies from loads of sources. I would have been looking for this 45 around that time and never saw it for this price ?

who had it ?

Three great tunes that would grace any dj playlists!

Vanguards hasn't really got a set sale price, twas £40 about 5 years ago & has gone for over a grand if i recall in recent times due to being in vogue etc. - I'd put it up for auction & let it fly!

Silhouettes - Seen this up for sale a couple of times recently, think Mark Freeman might have had one for about £600 a while back, didn't JM sell one for a grand + a couple of years back on auction, i may have dreamt all this though.

Gene Toones - A tune i've always wanted, remember when the 'For Millionaires' CD first came out, it was then valued at £700, i reckon you could easily get £1500 for it now although i would say £1200 would be a fair price but with so many people after it you could almost name your price.

Simon

Simon, i think JM has sold a couple of copies of this one this year on his auction, £800.00 or just over for one copy and a little under £700.00 for the other but i'm sure he can confirm this, so your valuation would be about right, this is a prime example of a timeless quality record which will always sell and sell well. I've had this record for about sixteen years now and i think i paid something like £70.00 for it then so not a bad investment are they some of these records?...lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Edited July 18, 200717 yr by Mark Bicknell

Simon, i think JM has sold a couple of copies of this one this year on his auction, £800.00 or just over for one copy and a little under £700.00 for the other but i'm sure he can confirm this, so your valuation would be about right, this is a prime example of a timeless quality record which will always sell and sell well. I've had this record for about sixteen years now and i think i paid something like £70.00 for it then so not a bad investment are they some of these records?...lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

yeah but 70 quid 16 years ago is a lot different to 40 quid 5 years ago.

16 years ago i bet most things were far more sensibly priced. 5 years ago we were well into the current situation where that 45 woiuld have been a lot more.

what one guy making a mistake with one copy ?

or loads of copies from loads of sources. I would have been looking for this 45 around that time and never saw it for this price ?

who had it ?

Not loads of copies but there's deffo more around than the price would suggest imo.

All these in vogue moderately rare records start off at proper prices & then escalate when they become in vogue.

Rod Dearlove used to have a few at £15 a pop!!

Simon

yeah but 70 quid 16 years ago is a lot different to 40 quid 5 years ago.

16 years ago i bet most things were far more sensibly priced. 5 years ago we were well into the current situation where that 45 woiuld have been a lot more.

5 years ago I bought a Parisians at Brighton record fair for £100, sold it for £150 or £200, it's now priced at £700

yeah but 70 quid 16 years ago is a lot different to 40 quid 5 years ago.

16 years ago i bet most things were far more sensibly priced. 5 years ago we were well into the current situation where that 45 woiuld have been a lot more.

Very true Dylan, but £70.00 was still quite a bit of cash to part with for a tune around that time, i seem to remember getting John Leach - Lawn, Ronnie McNeir - De - To, Belairs - Palmer, Imperial C's - Phil L.A. Of Soul, Melvin Davis - Wheel City, Silhouettes - Goodway, Peoples Choice - Palmer and three or four others which i can't remember what they were from the same guy, a well known collector from Mansfield when he sold up around 1990/91 and paid under a grand for the lot, i think the most expensive record out of the bunch was the Imperial C's @ £150.00, one or two friends of mine at the time thought i was mad to pay £70.00 for Melvin Davis (Wheel City) i would wager that if this came up for auction now it would sell for around a grand? infact i can't honestly remember seeing a copy for sale in recent times which confirms that some of these records are rare by definition, rare not often seen and hard to find.

I'm sure the likes of JM, Tim Brown, John Anderson, Dave Thorley, Pete S, Pat Brady and the many other guys who trade and deal in rare soul records would agree and conclude that if they knew then as in way back what they know now then they would all be retired lazing on a beech somewhere in the sunshine....ok JM does that now...lol but he does work very hard on a Wednesday at the close of auction...lol

I don't think we will ever get back to the days of coming out of Stafford with a copy of Betty Wilson for eight quid, Sam Fletcher a tenner and so on but i do feel that the lesser rare records will level price wise and become within the reach of people and the genuine rare records, the big titles and in demand records will continue to make us have debates like this by hitting the top book prices.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

5 years ago I bought a Parisians at Brighton record fair for £100, sold it for £150 or £200, it's now priced at £700

Classic example! how can inflation go up that much in 5 years?!

Think i was with you when you bought it Pete, didn't i try & buy it off you, i think i may have done if i remember rightly but didn't want to pay the inflated price of £150!

I remember trying to buy a copy of The Bluejays 'Point of view' probably 6/7 years ago, think it was off Henry Atkinson, it was £150, i rang him up & he told me i'd missed it by one phone call/ a couple of minutes but said it wasn't that rare & i'd easily get a copy!

I'm still waiting with my £150 if anyone has a copy they're willing to let go for that, yeah right but it's not quite as crazy as it sounds imo it should still be about that price but i'd be lucky to get one for under £700.

Simon

Classic example! how can inflation go up that much in 5 years?!

Think i was with you when you bought it Pete, didn't i try & buy it off you, i think i may have done if i remember rightly but didn't want to pay the inflated price of £150!

I remember trying to buy a copy of The Bluejays 'Point of view' probably 6/7 years ago, think it was off Henry Atkinson, it was £150, i rang him up & he told me i'd missed it by one phone call/ a couple of minutes but said it wasn't that rare & i'd easily get a copy!

I'm still waiting with my £150 if anyone has a copy they're willing to let go for that, yeah right but it's not quite as crazy as it sounds imo it should still be about that price but i'd be lucky to get one for under £700.

Simon

No, you were there though, I was talking to Mick Smith, one of your mates offered it to him and he didn't actually know it so I said is it ok if I buy it and he said I might as well, so trying to look completely underwhelmed, I bought it from under his nose...

I couldn't believe when I was looking for it that there are loads and loads of websites set up in tribute to him! Taking the mick obviously..

NO they are not taking the Micky - This guy was famous because he had severe disability- The person who lived with him in an learning disability institution recognised that he could understand him when he spoke but the Nurses could not. Joey was not mentally handicapped at all he was physically disabled but had always been treated as mentally handicapped because every proffessional said that he spoke babble when infact it was the proffesionals who were handicapped because thay could not understand him

I met him once many years ago when I visited the hospital he was staying in. Very bright chap who did a lot for people with dissabilities - so no! It is not a wind up. Long Live Joey Deacon (Sadly passed away)

Edited July 18, 200717 yr by Ernie Andrews

iI HEAR THAT ONLY 700 MELVIN DAVIS WERE PRESSED UP

IS THAT CORRECT !

NO they are not taking the Micky - This guy was famous because he had severe disability- The person who lived with him in an learning disability institution recognised that he could understand him when he spoke but the Nurses could not. Joey was not mentally handicapped at all he was physically disabled but had always been treated as mentally handicapped because every proffessional said that he spoke babble when infact it was the proffesionals who were handicapped because thay could not understand him

I met him once many years ago when I visited the hospital he was staying in. Very bright chap who did a lot for people with dissabilities - so no! It is not a wind up. Long Live Joey Deacon (Sadly passed away)

Sorry - they are taking the mickey - most of them anyway.

Random link - a collection of modern day Deaconists

https://www.spleen.dsl.pipex.com/jd-modern6.html

and before we get into a debate about this - all these are out on the net and are f&ck all to do with me

Classic example! how can inflation go up that much in 5 years?!

Think i was with you when you bought it Pete, didn't i try & buy it off you, i think i may have done if i remember rightly but didn't want to pay the inflated price of £150!

Don't worry. It found a good home.

£700 I thought that was the Traditions (which is exactly the same isn't it?).

Don't worry. It found a good home.

£700 I thought that was the Traditions (which is exactly the same isn't it?).

See, Stuart is always on hand to make sure I'm not making these stories up. He also promised to sell me back everything I ever sold him at the prices I sold him them for though he probably doesn't remember telling me that

Don't worry. It found a good home.

B'stard!

I bet you bought my bleedin' Blue Jays 'an all!

Simon

Not loads of copies but there's deffo more around than the price would suggest imo.

All these in vogue moderately rare records start off at proper prices & then escalate when they become in vogue.

Rod Dearlove used to have a few at £15 a pop!!

Simon

The £15 a pop was back in the mid 80's. He probably had a few and thought he'd get more as fairly well known but they never really turned up in quantity. I've never seen it that low since, I saw it very late 80's or early 90's for around £120 and it's been really into three and four figures ever since. I certainly never saw or heard of one for £40 five years ago, I think you've missed a zero of the end

I remember trying to buy a copy of The Bluejays 'Point of view' probably 6/7 years ago, think it was off Henry Atkinson, it was £150, i rang him up & he told me i'd missed it by one phone call/ a couple of minutes but said it wasn't that rare & i'd easily get a copy!

Simon

Didn't Rob Smith once find a box of these and sell them at a quid a piece I can remember this being a fairly cheap record at one time but records disappear into collections and then it's a case of supply and demand rather than the rarity that dictates the price.

Vanguards hasn't really got a set sale price, twas £40 about 5 years ago & has gone for over a grand if i recall in recent times due to being in vogue etc. - I'd put it up for auction & let it fly!

simon, it came into vogue about 4 or 5 years ago; since its been about a grand, there aren't too many copies otherwise they would have surfaced by now at that price (saying that i know someone with two copies who only paid £15 each many years ago).

think the last one i saw was £1,200.

simon, it came into vogue about 4 or 5 years ago; since its been about a grand, there aren't too many copies otherwise they would have surfaced by now at that price (saying that i know someone with two copies who only paid £15 each many years ago).

think the last one i saw was £1,200.

by in-vogue do you both mean indemand? it's been indemand and a big niter spin for over 15 years let alone 4 or 5. Just the same with many records supply (or lack of it) has steadily pushed up the price.

The market is stronger than ever. I know Craig Moerer is rushed off his feet and we certainly are.

With all due respect John you are not typical of the rest of us at what prices you can get for 45s. You've put a lifetime of effort into getting where you are. If like me its a sideline to my normal working life then I can never hope to sell records for the same prices you do as I just haven't got anywhere near the same number of people asking me for 45s.

And also i don't have the same number of contacts to buy them from.

The prices you achieve will be achieved by prehaps you and the other lucky few at the top of the tree.

I can find a lot of 45s all day long at 50% of your prices but doesn't mean to say you won't sell your copies of those same 45s.

I certainly don't agree that the market is a strong as ever. 2 busy record dealers doing well is not suprising to me but I don't see that same vibrancy across the board.

Dylan

by in-vogue do you both mean indemand? it's been indemand and a big niter spin for over 15 years let alone 4 or 5. Just the same with many records supply (or lack of it) has steadily pushed up the price.

Chalky I agree with Dave - it was just before I moved back here that everyone started asking about it - 6 years - not saying it wasn't played before that but not to this degree

Chalky I agree with Dave - it was just before I moved back here that everyone started asking about it - 6 years - not saying it wasn't played before that but not to this degree

I don't to some degree. Everyone may have started asking for it then but I still remember this being highly sought after years before then. Maybe it was sites like this and the internet becomming more and more popular that brought it to far more peoples attention?

It was at least 400 quid even at the beginning of 2000's. There's one on popsike from 2003 at $1500.

Edited July 18, 200717 yr by chalky

I don't to some degree. Everyone may have started asking for it then but I still remember this being highly sought after years before then. Maybe it was sites like this and the internet becomming more and more popular that brought it to far more peoples attention?

It was at least 400 quid even at the beginning of 2000's. There's one on popsike from 2003 at $1500.

2003 was when it went through the roof though Chalky, i'm sure it was a 40 quidder not long before that or maybe that was just in Brighton, we're always cheap down here!

Simon

2003 was when it went through the roof though Chalky, i'm sure it was a 40 quidder not long before that or maybe that was just in Brighton, we're always cheap down here!

Simon

Like I said earlier, I reckon you missed a zero off £40, I doubt very much unless whoever was selling was totally clueless

Chalky I agree with Dave - it was just before I moved back here that everyone started asking about it - 6 years - not saying it wasn't played before that but not to this degree

I have a tape from ´93 where it was still a c/up. The last one went in mint minus condition two weeks ago for about the equivalent of 7/800 UKP thru ebay...very cheap compared with recent prices for this item. And I agree with what others said, if it would have been not that rare over the last five years there would have been much more copies up for sale.

On the other aspect(s) of prices going down..I am sure no prophet but I said it on several occasions years before that the time will soon come (now it`s here!) that we will have three categories of records.

1. the sheer amount of 45s under about 100 UKP

For these the market it vanishing more and more from day to day. the simple reason for that is that most of us have or had these 45s and simply don`t need or don´t want to buy these classic collection builders from days gone by with the odd exception (tune of the week/month etc..). As the price hike of especially the last seven / nine years hold many willing people back from starting seriously collecting Rare Soul obviously there are now near to none new collectors who could be the now needed market for these 45s. The very same happened with the Blues, Doo Wop and Rockabilly market years and years ago. We need to realize (if not already done) that the Rare Soul scene is a scene where the average age is nowadays around 45 years plus...and who hasn`t got started to collect already is very much unlikely to do so in the next coming years..

Here the Market already has dictated the new pricing. You can buy a Darrel Banks "Our Love" every day on ebay for 10 USD...

2. the classic or big known oldies between say 100 and 500 UKP

Here you have a market these days where supply and demand really still dictate the price situation...On one hand 45s like "The Chase Is On" or "Not Too Young To Fall In Love" for example. Easy to sell (even at an inflated price) due to demand because of reactivation.

But on the other hand take all the Dena Barnes and Liz Verdi´s of this world and try to sell them at their once highest (book) prices. But don`t get too frustrated please.

In general you can already foresee here the same development as above although the market is going "down" much much slower...a "sideward moving market" is how a German economist would call this and most responsible for this are (as already stated) we...the collectors and DJ`s who still (!) buy.

3. the big mega rare or "monster" items from 500 upwards

Here you find a market that is having 45s that still can reach new highs...but can also drop easily and fast. Just take the recent Angela Davis topic to see what I mean. And indeed Angela Davis is a good example...bought by one of the big DJ`s of this beloved scene who in the end had one contrahent in the auction (I bet another big DJ). And I`ll bet again and this time with anyone that if that other bidder will have secured a copy of Angela Davis this won´t reach such a high amount again anywhere. And that picture explains this market perfectly: When all the "big " collectors and DJ`s who want and can afford have finally secured that record in question the price is sure to drop. To see what I mean try to sell a Leo Price on Up /Down these days at a grand and tell me how you succeeded...

This market I believe is still the strongest or lets say most constant but it depends very much on the 45 in question wether price is going up or down. Once all "gold card" customers have been served there is noone left to eat the soup...

Bon appetit!

Marc

Edited July 18, 200717 yr by Marc Forrest