I have been into the Northern scene for over 30 years now, I had a break of some 10 years to fullfill my dream of becoming a well known DJ in another type of music, which I won't name. I saw the error of my ways eventually and started collecting Northern again some 3 years ago. I started going to a few venues around the Leeds/West Yorkshire area. The first one I went to (no names mentioned) there were very few tunes that I recognised, I put that down to me being off the scene for a while. The next one, I recognised most if not all the tracks that were being played. I got talking to a guy at the second venue and mentioned the first place I had been to, and he said that where I had been was not a Northern Soul night, but a 'rare and underplayed' night. He went on to say that there is quite a rift between the followers of each type of music, and that at a lot of venues, Northern oldies were frowned upon and vice versa. When I left the scene it was one big happy family. I understand that the scene has to move on, but let's not forget the roots that placed Northern soul firmly on the map of UK music, and formed the first ever underground dance scene in the world. Why the division?

CeCe Rogers - Someday hasn't been played on the Northern scene yet, as it is probably the most soulful House track ever, or has it?

I played it at Nuneaton Soul Night last year, alongside Little Beaver.

Nobody danced

Edited February 19, 200817 yr by Matt Male

. I have thought numerous times whan I have heard a soulful house track that it could pass as a Northern tune. Maybe this is the way forward, blending Northern oldies, newies and Soulful House tunes? Bring it on!!!

Why would we want to play it at Northern venues?

House music has it's place, it's called the house music scene

Nothing personal just my opinion

But some House IS played on the Northern scene, read the post above about Driza Bone, Kim English and Joi Cardwell, and also there has been a lot of Disco played on the scene too (again as mentioned above) i.e. Skip Mahoney, The Brothers, Carstairs etc. so how can you say that? And yes I do like the above track because it's uptempo AND soulfull, isn't that what Northern soul is then? I think that it has been proven in the past that Northern Soul doesn't have to be black music, and in many cases even soul music, so why draw the line at Soulfull House music? Especially when many of us have been dancing, playing and buying many records that aren't black or soul music for years that have made it on to the scene. I love the scene and always have, that's why i'm on this forum and have been into it for over 30 years, and providing that it never comes the point of Soul of some description not being played, I always will love it. I suppose as it has been said, "todays newies are tomorrows oldies". I didn't say that I didn't like the venue that played 'Rare and underplayed' tracks, I did!, the point of this post was to find out why there was such a division between oldies lovers, and newies lovers, when in the early days many people liked both frequenting both Wigan etc. and the Mecca etc and liking most tunes played at both. Well! that's how I remember it anyway.

Very nice indeed, does it cost a lot of pennies?

And what about that translation

as I'm the guy in the video and added the song at the end...some pennies, james is right

concerning the translation, the report (on first german television) deals with the high prices of old records in general and of soul 45`s in particular...

Like wise, But, You started it by expecting other people to care about what pisses you off? I myself am Dogmatic about other things such as the weather . No need for the Mr Sadot.

Hi Paul,

I started what off?. I didn't say I was p....d off, I said I was disillusioned.

Anyway each to their own eh?

Off to Scotland Saturday for a week to climb some big mountains. I will reflect on my stance and hopefully recharge my batteries.

Reg,

I went to Paul's do. I loved it. Great variety, but boy did I feel old! And the break dancers who turned up....Wow!!!

But some House IS played on the Northern scene, read the post above about Driza Bone, Kim English and Joi Cardwell, and also there has been a lot of Disco played on the scene too (again as mentioned above) i.e. Skip Mahoney, The Brothers, Carstairs etc. so how can you say that? And yes I do like the above track because it's uptempo AND soulfull, isn't that what Northern soul is then? I think that it has been proven in the past that Northern Soul doesn't have to be black music, and in many cases even soul music, so why draw the line at Soulfull House music? Especially when many of us have been dancing, playing and buying many records that aren't black or soul music for years that have made it on to the scene. I love the scene and always have, that's why i'm on this forum and have been into it for over 30 years, and providing that it never comes the point of Soul of some description not being played, I always will love it. I suppose as it has been said, "todays newies are tomorrows oldies". I didn't say that I didn't like the venue that played 'Rare and underplayed' tracks, I did!, the point of this post was to find out why there was such a division between oldies lovers, and newies lovers, when in the early days many people liked both frequenting both Wigan etc. and the Mecca etc and liking most tunes played at both. Well! that's how I remember it anyway.

I don't think there is a divsion more like two completely different scenes. In one corner you have those that are part of the northern soul scene and all its trimming ie bar towels where the what comes out of the bins is important but as long as the know the words and when to clap and spin they;re happy and then you have those who are fanatical about the music, the artists, the collecting, the labels and posting at 7-49am in the morning...lol.

Each to their own and fair play to all of ya.

I don't think there is a divsion more like two completely different scenes. In one corner you have those that are part of the northern soul scene and all its trimming ie bar towels where the what comes out of the bins is important but as long as the know the words and when to clap and spin they;re happy and then you have those who are fanatical about the music, the artists, the collecting, the labels and posting at 7-49am in the morning...lol.

Each to their own and fair play to all of ya.

....and there are those that like one style of music, and those that like more than one style of music....

But some House IS played on the Northern scene, read the post above about Driza Bone, Kim English and Joi Cardwell, and also there has been a lot of Disco played on the scene too (again as mentioned above) i.e. Skip Mahoney, The Brothers, Carstairs etc. so how can you say that? And yes I do like the above track because it's uptempo AND soulfull, isn't that what Northern soul is then? I think that it has been proven in the past that Northern Soul doesn't have to be black music, and in many cases even soul music, so why draw the line at Soulfull House music? Especially when many of us have been dancing, playing and buying many records that aren't black or soul music for years that have made it on to the scene. I love the scene and always have, that's why i'm on this forum and have been into it for over 30 years, and providing that it never comes the point of Soul of some description not being played, I always will love it. I suppose as it has been said, "todays newies are tomorrows oldies". I didn't say that I didn't like the venue that played 'Rare and underplayed' tracks, I did!, the point of this post was to find out why there was such a division between oldies lovers, and newies lovers, when in the early days many people liked both frequenting both Wigan etc. and the Mecca etc and liking most tunes played at both. Well! that's how I remember it anyway.

You dont remember the pages and pages of letters in Blues and Soul about the 70s stuff being played, and the big division back then? I think you are airbrushing this out by impressing your views and letting it distort your memory. i was introduced to Northern Soul in 1977, and one of the first things I noticed was some people were forcably against stuff like Ladies choice being played at Wigan.

I'm sure SHSDave was one of those at the forefront of the backlash. I've known him for a good few years, and he has never waivered from his stance. He cant be faulted for his passion for 60s soul though.

You dont remember the pages and pages of letters in Blues and Soul about the 70s stuff being played, and the big division back then? I think you are airbrushing this out by impressing your views and letting it distort your memory. i was introduced to Northern Soul in 1977, and one of the first things I noticed was some people were forcably against stuff like Ladies choice being played at Wigan.

I'm sure SHSDave was one of those at the forefront of the backlash. I've known him for a good few years, and he has never waivered from his stance. He cant be faulted for his passion for 60s soul though.

Same thing went on in Blackbeat early - mid 80's; the letters page there made B&S look like a Parish magazine.

as I'm the guy in the video and added the song at the end...some pennies, james is right

concerning the translation, the report (on first german television) deals with the high prices of old records in general and of soul 45`s in particular...

Vielen danke

The scene was founded on rare and unknown records.

You'r not on your own when you say this ,but it is not the case,the scene was founded on ,R&B reggae, and black soul music usually up tempo, with the odd blue eyed soul tune thrown in,it was not till the early to mid 70's it developed into a rare soul scene...lets get the record straight ..no pun intended

Bazza

I have been into the Northern scene for over 30 years now, I had a break of some 10 years to fullfill my dream of becoming a well known DJ in another type of music

I agree that this track (Joi Cardwell) is an excellent track, I have many of her records, she is a House music artist. There are also many other House tracks that have and could make it onto the Northern scene, after all, House is mainly the same tempo as Northern anyway 120-135ish bpm and much of it is very soulful. Take Driza Bone - Pressure, an out and out House track and produced by one of the foremost House producers, Roger Sanchez, who I have had the pleasure of DJing with on more than one occasion. I am suprized that CeCe Rogers - Someday hasn't been played on the Northern scene yet, as it is probably the most soulful House track ever, or has it? Kim English - Simply grateful, yet another House track and artist. I am pleased that these type of tunes are crossing over, I have literally hundreds of soulful House tracks that could easily be played at Northern nights. The other music that I didn't mention in the original post was House music, that is the type of music that I started to play out after the northern stuff and I've been collecting it for some 15 years so you can imagine I have a few. I have thought numerous times whan I have heard a soulful house track that it could pass as a Northern tune. Maybe this is the way forward, blending Northern oldies, newies and Soulful House tunes? Bring it on!!!

Hi Steve

I noticed your original thread and then how you sort of came into your own on this later piece

Would i be correct in saying you were a budding HOUSE MUSIC JOCK

I can fully understand you getting into that scene ,very similiar to the whole northern ,underground music cult that probably got us all into this in the first place.

For me it's all about being "open minded" about individual songs ,artists etc.

I once seen a quote on a website that sums it all up to me:-

"NOBODY CAME INTO THE WORLD WITH NORTHERN SOUL PRE INSATLLED INTO THEIR MEMORY"

Therefore everything was new at some point,so why do some people complain when they hear something they havent heard before???

I hate the whole putting records in categories thing,RnB/modern/crossover/belgian pop/rare /oldies etc etc.

Did venues back in the 70's have so many differenet rooms playing differnent genres??

Back in the 70's (i was too young in the 60's) i seem to remember oldies and modern ,well in the 70's they were modern!

2008 and we're calling 70's music modern??

The division ,as i see it, is more to do with people who want to hear records that take them back to a time, when they were most happy, and people who strive to keep the scene going ,for the love of hearing as many great soulful records as they possibly can!

In my own personal experience i'd have to say ,ive seen two sides,those who complain about dj's playing stuff they don't know,and those who complain about dj's who play same old ,same old.

as I'm the guy in the video and added the song at the end...some pennies, james is right

concerning the translation, the report (on first german television) deals with the high prices of old records in general and of soul 45`s in particular...

Looks like the club is going great, Kristian! Congrats

Looks like the club is going great, Kristian! Congrats

Thanks, James!

to good to be true, to be honest....always 400+, often 500+

We've been pretty lucky with this venue, it's located on one of the "hip streets" of berlin, and gives us the oppurtunity to implement all the ideas, we always had...like all the projections,, old televisions, vintage posters,.....

Therefore everything was new at some point,so why do some people complain when they hear something they havent heard before???

I quite agree Nev, I'm always interested in & actively seek out stuff that I've not heard before. To me though this post isn't about hearing new discoveries etc of northern, it's about introducing a totally different style of music just because it has the right beat. If all that mattered was it being uptempo & having the right sound then we'd be back to the dark days of Helen Shapiro, Muirel Day etc etc etc etc etc.

Despite what some people may think my interest does go beyond 60s Northern. At home I have 70s/80s Soul, Classical, Opera, 60s pop, traditional music from around the world as well as loads of indie stuff like Smiths, Wedding Present, Band of Holy Joy, Great Divide, Cure, Joy Division, Pogues etc etc & of course I have a very small knowledge of dance / house but it does nothing for me so I don't buy it..........all of which means absolutely nothing except to possibly point towards the fact that we're not all averse to hearing something new, it's just that we choose to listen to a style that we like when we attend certain clubs.

It's all about individual taste, which is why we have seperate rooms

To my ears house music soulful or otherwise has nothing to do with northern & i certainly wouldn't attend a venue that played it. Bloody hell I have enough trouble enduring most of the 70s played which is why i try to avoid clubs that play that as well.

cheers

Dave

Sorry dont understand this " people dont want to hear it" rare and underplayed title,have been to rare

and underplayed nights and has been either Disco or elevator music "underplayed" because no one wants to hear it! "rare" because it was only worth pressing 10 copies. have also been to rare and underplayed that have been fantastic ie: Burnley....but they do mention it,s 60,s throughout, which helps

But would,nt worry about the musical divide,s ,I love R&B which gets more knocks than most ,maybe too

dirty, too raw, too fast for the old folk so they stay away. So the rule is try them all and then the choice is yours

Could you expand on that Brian, I'd be interested to hear why some people think its in a bad shape. I keep hearing 'the mod scenes in bad shape' and compared to that the soul scene seems to be doing pretty damn well! (in terms of the numbers of events and the actual numbers at each event).

The divide between 'newbies' and 'oldies' is DJ driven surely - a lot of regular DJs understandably want to play new stuff, and some think there should be nights sepcifically dedicated to them. I think thats fine, but its gonna limit your audience somewhat. The 'best' DJs always mix it up IMHO (because you can't assume to know the musical knowledge of everyone in the room - unless that room solely consists of 15 of yer mates! )

correct the mod scene is doing very well, full of people who want to be there,not people expecting other

things, lots of new discoveries being played all the time,but of course within that Genre of music.Maybe people saying its in bad shape becuase they never frequent,simply because you get exactly what it says

on the tin.

If they've got that 60's sound or feel then fine, but do you really want to hear plink plonk disco music?

ditto,forget the term 70,s what we mean is that "funk / newyork disco type sound usualy found in 70,s stylee records and onwards"...that kind of beat does,nt do it for me either not even 60,s made 70,s sounding james Brown God bless him!!!

I played it at Nuneaton Soul Night last year, alongside Little Beaver.

Nobody danced

Try The Snake Youll pack the floor

Would i be correct in saying you were a budding HOUSE MUSIC JOCK

Hi Nev and thanks for the post. No I have actually been a House DJ for 20 years, i started when it first hit the UK shores in 1988ish. I have over 12000 House records that range from the early Electro, jacking, Techno, Rave, House and Soulfull House. I also have hundreds of 60s & 70s Funk, Soul and Disco records as well as about a thousand Northern 7s and LPs. So I have done the rounds. I have Dj'd since the Northern Days without a break, so some 30 odd years, and have played with some of the biggest known House DJs in the world including Sasha, Carl Cox, Pete Tong, Roger Sanchez, David Morales etc. BUT there is NO music that hit's the spot like Northern Soul, this is why I have come back to it after all these years, it's in the blood as I am sure it is in yours, it's more than music, it's literally a life style and I love it as much as life itself, and that is the truth.

Steve

On re-reading the question, the answer is no, not really, not at that time. I actually got the chance of jocking at a 'normal' club and they liked what i did, so it went on from there really. didn't start off doing House. it was 60s 70s Funk and Disco, moved over to House when it showed it's face.

Edited February 20, 200817 yr by steveluigi

On re-reading the question, the answer is no, not really, not at that time. I actually got the chance of jocking at a 'normal' club and they liked what i did, so it went on from there really. didn't start off doing House. it was 60s 70s Funk and Disco, moved over to House when it showed it's face.

Edited February 20, 200817 yr by steveluigi

No division for me between Northern/Modern. I respect the fact that people have their prefered genres and each to their own.

Personally, I am as happy in either a Northern or Modern room as long as the tunes are quality.

I am not just a Northern Soul enthusiast but a Soul fan in general. I would love all styles in one night in the one room. Doesn't suit the majority so fair enough.

Live and let live.

the point of this post was to find out why there was such a division between oldies lovers, and newies lovers, when in the early days many people liked both frequenting both Wigan etc. and the Mecca etc and liking most tunes played at both. Well! that's how I remember it anyway.

Anyone else feel it all changed with Mr M's?

Until then, the UK Soul Fan was a progressive and hungry beast and the 'Rare' or 'Northern' Soul scene catered for that hunger (to hear something NEW).

Personally, I'm always on the look out for new Soul sounds (things that are new to me) from ANY era, but I recognise that most people aren't.

So, the oldies obsession is, as you say 'a great shame' but only to the individual who has an appetite for New Soul sounds, whereas for those who enjoy comfortable nostalgia and who prefers to reminisce or relive their youth, good luck to 'em.

Leave 'em to it.

More new stuff for us!

Sean

Observation on this subject....Stop debating the different factions it doesent matter take a step back go to your record/cd/computer/ player whatever... and enjoy the music whatever your favourite style...go to venues give em a try if you like them go back if you dont well you know what to do, have faith in what you like thats all that matters..today too much emphasis is placed on peoples political attitudes within the scene and the music almost seems to become secondary to this....be happy

Anyone else feel it all changed with Mr M's?

Until then, the UK Soul Fan was a progressive and hungry beast and the 'Rare' or 'Northern' Soul scene catered for that hunger (to hear something NEW).

Personally, I'm always on the look out for new Soul sounds (things that are new to me) from ANY era, but I recognise that most people aren't.

So, the oldies obsession is, as you say 'a great shame' but only to the individual who has an appetite for New Soul sounds, whereas for those who enjoy comfortable nostalgia and who prefers to reminisce or relive their youth, good luck to 'em.

Leave 'em to it.

More new stuff for us!

Sean

But it's not just the soul scene that suffers from this Sean. It strikes me that the vast majority of civilians are stuck with their treasured oldies too - be that Cliff Richard, Take That, The Eagles, Status Quo, the Beatles I find very few people of my age in the civilian community (and obviously a bit younger than you : ) who are interested in anything new musically.....a few wannabee "trendy" Dad's trying to relate to their teenagers maybe.....but that's about it.

I think we got to accept that hearing NEW music is a minority pastime, both amongst the general populus - the civvies - and also amongst the soulheads.....Steve

Edited February 21, 200817 yr by Steve G

Just like to make the point that when I talk about moving forward etc I don't mean into 70's 80's 2k tunes. I think some readers confuse moving forward and newer sounds as non 60's. This is not my point. I am primarily 60's orientated, with some 70's etc that I think have a northern appeal. To me moving forward is accepting 60's tunes that were not played at Wigan, and don't feature in the top 500. Stafford moved forward from the Wigan style of plays, but stayed primarily 60's. There are still 60's newies being unearthed, combine these with underplayed and forgotten spins from earlier eras that now sound better than they did back then, before the boundaries of tempo etc shifted, and thats the kind of thing I want to be listening to at venues, not tired out 'girl across the street" and "I never knew" etc. Classics and still good records, but they need to make way for other tunes to be enjoyed. I don't want to go to a venue and know every record played. I want to hear something new (to me, at least) so I can rush off and try to find a copy. That's how it was when I started going to do's, and I don't see why that can't continue with a little inventive DJ'ing and the bottle to risk clearing the floor with something the punters don't know! I know some DJ's/promoters ascribe to the theory that the floor is paramount, and it must be kept full, but surely at some point the dancers are gonna say "I'm sick of dancing to the same records, lets hear something different" Altho' I can't see that happening anytime soon, as I am still amazed how people fill the floor time after time to the same stuff!

Hi Trevski, very well said indeed! I Djayed at my local do last Saturday, for at least half of my set I had an empty dancefloor. Most of the folks there want to hear the same records every time they go out. I played stuff like the four voices - your love is getting stronger, ballads - cant see your love, volumes - gotta give her love, hardly underplayed in my eyes, but something they don't play at this venue and they were greeted by an empty floor! The thing is these folks go to the same do's and hear the same tunes at them all, when you bring something different to the table, they think ur a sh*t DJ. I did put some classics on and the floor was rammed! I think some people don't want to hear 'new' (new to them) stuff, and thats why they always go to the same do's to hear the same records!

Deb

Edited February 21, 200817 yr by debc

Hi Martyn, To be honest, i its the sound for me, i like to close my eyes, and when the music starts, it sounds like they are playing in my front room. I dont like all Latin, only the stuff that sixties or sounds sixties. I hire out P.A 's for bands at Chester uni and they sound great live, as soon as they give me a cd, you play it at home and it sounds shite, because they have probably took about a week or more to record 1 or 2 tracks, over dubs ect on a 24 track or more. Thats why i like the 50s - 60s ect.

That what i like, and know one is gonna change me now what was that 70s track i quite liked

Just having a laugh.

Life is to short.

Pete Griffin ( family guy)

What can i say, still stand by my comment mate, you,re missing a lot of stuff... do you play vinyl or cds at home, the most ? .. to turn off at say 1969 ? is a sin mate, ha... Have you thought about getting a real hi-fi set up ? which type of system do you use at home then ? Might be a good thing to get a real hi-fi , if you hav,nt ? as some can sound brillient, pete. And dont need to cost the earth, if say get a deal from richer sounds ... maybe im lucy as i enjoy most of the 60s soul + jazz, also 70s, some 80s and right upto soulful house, and the nu-jazz thing too.. suppose you save more cash your way , ha, martyn

Edited February 21, 200817 yr by martynthejazz

But it's not just the soul scene that suffers from this Sean. It strikes me that the vast majority of civilians are stuck with their treasured oldies too - be that Cliff Richard, Take That, The Eagles, Status Quo, the Beatles I find very few people of my age in the civilian community (and obviously a bit younger than you : ) who are interested in anything new musically.....a few wannabee "trendy" Dad's trying to relate to their teenagers maybe.....but that's about it.

I think we got to accept that hearing NEW music is a minority pastime, both amongst the general populus - the civvies - and also amongst the soulheads.....Steve

Very good point Steve. Agree entirely.

Explains why the music industry is pretty much on its knees, in general... and also why the recording of new Soul Music has also become a minority sport.

The majority of music lovers, of all genres, are much more comfortable with what they know and enjoy.

And you and I both know that the minority are not .

Sean

No division for me between Northern/Modern. I respect the fact that people have their prefered genres and each to their own.

Personally, I am as happy in either a Northern or Modern room as long as the tunes are quality.

I am not just a Northern Soul enthusiast but a Soul fan in general. I would love all styles in one night in the one room. Doesn't suit the majority so fair enough.

Live and let live.

I'm in your camp & still l get a tingle if i hear a tune for the first time & like it!

Daryl

What can i say, still stand by my comment mate, you,re missing a lot of stuff... do you play vinyl or cds at home, the most ? .. to turn off at say 1969 ? is a sin mate, ha... Have you thought about getting a real hi-fi set up ? which type of system do you use at home then ? Might be a good thing to get a real hi-fi , if you hav,nt ? as some can sound brillient, pete. And dont need to cost the earth, if say get a deal from richer sounds ... maybe im lucy as i enjoy most of the 60s soul + jazz, also 70s, some 80s and right upto soulful house, and the nu-jazz thing too.. suppose you save more cash your way , ha, martyn

Truth! I record my 45s on to my pc and play them through winamp then through a 100w 4ohm amp and speakers, sounds great. I cannot play my 45s when the kids are about because they are animals .

Havnt bought a cd with soul rnb ect on for over 5 years plus, only done cd swaps. If we put a night on we use my p.a Peavey tops and bass bins 1,500 w, Stanton top of the range decks (they go backwards forwards as a dj found out ) even play 78s. I have over 1000 plus soul, rnb, Jamaican Ska, Rocksteady, latin and jazz 45s on my pc and thats not inclueding my Sixties blue eyed soul, british r&b - beat and sixties American Garage collection. A good investment for the kids, for when i kick the bucket

Lets just say i could pay my Morgage off with my collection

No, im not telling you were i live he he.

Pete Griff

Truth! I record my 45s on to my pc and play them through winamp then through a 100w 4ohm amp and speakers, sounds great. I cannot play my 45s when the kids are about because they are animals .

Havnt bought a cd with soul rnb ect on for over 5 years plus, only done cd swaps. If we put a night on we use my p.a Peavey tops and bass bins 1,500 w, Stanton top of the range decks (they go backwards forwards as a dj found out ) even play 78s. I have over 1000 plus soul, rnb, Jamaican Ska, Rocksteady, latin and jazz 45s on my pc and thats not inclueding my Sixties blue eyed soul, british r&b - beat and sixties American Garage collection. A good investment for the kids, for when i kick the bucket

Lets just say i could pay my Morgage off with my collection

No, im not telling you were i live he he.

Pete Griff

Pete , well all i can say to that is good luck, still can,t really understand why you dont go past the 1969 barrier.. But each to is own. Expect you have enough stuff to play already ha. and we would both be dead before we could play through them all, true.. as iv 2000 cds + 2000 lps, + 800 45s etc, except mine go from 1950s blue note upto now, ha cheers mate, martyn

Pete , well all i can say to that is good luck, still can,t really understand why you dont go past the 1969 barrier.. But each to is own. Expect you have enough stuff to play already ha. and we would both be dead before we could play through them all, true.. as iv 2000 cds + 2000 lps, + 800 45s etc, except mine go from 1950s blue note upto now, ha cheers mate, martyn

Yes, good luck on collecting, no matter what year it is, its never ending.

All the best

Pete Griff

Edited February 22, 200817 yr by Pete Griffin

been reading this thread with some interest and it seems there will always be a debate about Oldies , Modern, Rare, underplayed, House etc, etc,etc, and it will never go away, what ever gendre' of soul/black music you are into nee probs, myself I love the lot, from early sixties to Soulful Garage, and enjoy what ever night I go to,

I think Steve mentioned on page one why can't we have a night where all forms are played in one room??, or something like that, well actually there is( there may be others but now aware of them ) and it's Bumping and Stomping in Edinburgh and it's been going for some years now Shaz and Jolly have it on 4 times a year 2 of which are Oldies night but the other 2 have a seperate Northern roon but in the main hall you can hear The Chandlers to Deepswing, Mario Biondi to Stevie Wonder,Driza Bone to Harold Melvin and the floor is never empty and the atmosphere is brill, if you want a party night getting pissed having a geat laugh well you can't go wrong here.

Re House Music being played at Northern Do's by Northern DJ's,it was not that long ago a well known DJ was at my house and i played some Soulful House, this DJ stated not for him, not a problem at all, it's all about opinions, well last year at Whitby same DJ was on and played Soulful House, including a couple of tracks I played to him,saying they were brilliant tunes, I was a bit peeved at first but then realised that peoples taste's change, and good on him, he had the floor full, but one thing that does come out of this why do people only change when a big name DJ plays something different, why can't they accept it when a lesser know(not leser knowleagable) DJ plays something and then kick up a fuss calling the DJ shite etc,

I wish people would listen to the music and accept it for what it is,and not accepting it when the music is only played by certain DJ's .

Well rant over

some Soulful House recomendations for you and you can listen to them on traxsource

Mighty Mighty Love Deepswing

Papa was a rolling stone Temptations Jihad Mohammad remix

He is the joy Donna Allen

Change the world Solaris

Rise Joillet

Have a listen let me know what you think

Paul Conroy

Tyneside Soul Promotions

Try The Snake Youll pack the floor

I agree Leigh. I love Nuneaton but i get frustrated by the classic oldies only scene. Mark's been good enough to put me on in April and since it's an oldies night i'm going all the way with classic oldies and youth club classics. The stuff i was introduced to in 1978 in fact.

Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and play oldies (especially if that's what the punters and promoter want). Maybe sometime, somewhere i'll get to play all my rarely played stuff...

Anyone else feel it all changed with Mr M's?

Until then, the UK Soul Fan was a progressive and hungry beast and the 'Rare' or 'Northern' Soul scene catered for that hunger (to hear something NEW).

Personally, I'm always on the look out for new Soul sounds (things that are new to me) from ANY era, but I recognise that most people aren't.

So, the oldies obsession is, as you say 'a great shame' but only to the individual who has an appetite for New Soul sounds, whereas for those who enjoy comfortable nostalgia and who prefers to reminisce or relive their youth, good luck to 'em.

Leave 'em to it.

More new stuff for us!

Sean

I was discussing this the other day with a mate, and he said exactly the same thing, re mr. M's starting the oldies obsession. Thank goodness for Stafford, and the other forward thinking venues of the 80s/90s. If you go out to a nighter and you don't say "what the ***k is this" at least a couple of times during the night, then I just can't see the point......

Phil.

Brilliant

ME TOO ,WELL SAID

I agree Leigh. I love Nuneaton but i get frustrated by the classic oldies only scene. Mark's been good enough to put me on in April and since it's an oldies night i'm going all the way with classic oldies and youth club classics. The stuff i was introduced to in 1978 in fact.

Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and play oldies (especially if that's what the punters and promoter want). Maybe sometime, somewhere i'll get to play all my rarely played stuff...

Why ? I wouldnt , dont get me wrong If it wasnt for Mark Nuneaton would have had very few soul nights over the years , he deserves a successful night more than anyone for his perseverance ,

Theres no point in being frustrated by the classic oldies policy just go somewhere else .

Glyn and I always saw the scene as a progressive one not just the nostalgia of venues gone bye , If you see it the same way why should you play things you dont realy want to play just to please the Nuneaton crowd ? let someone else do it while you have a few pints .

When we were doing the rare soul nights at Bridgies we were offered a great venue in the Nuneaton area, the plan was for a two room allnighter catering for both tastes which in my opinion would have been a success , but Bridgies was shunned and slagged off for its music policy more than ever i could have imagined so we thought 'why bother'? we were a few years early in what we were trying to do .

Im still turning up records that are new to me , thats the buzz mate , the sheer volume of stuff out there never ceases to amaze me .

Im glad that Mark is now making a few quid from the co-op soul nights after losing on so many in the past .

Any chance of a cd swap matt ?

There are two kinds of soul music..good & bad............if its got the 'x' factor, play it. The NSS was/is spose to be progessive, thats the whole point. People can debate until they are blue in the face, but they cannot change the FACT that new discoveries are what 'real' NS is/was about.

The handbaggers, part timers & nostalgia junkies can crack on pretending, while the real underground scene, continues with the true ethos of the Rare Soul scene.

Its just how it is.

Russ

Can I also add (and I may gain a few enemies for this but it needs to be said), that a Dj is paid to entertain the crowds, hence being a part of the 'Entertainment industry', they are paid to fill the dance floor or as near as dammit using his ability to please the punters. If a style of music isn't working the floor then it's the DJs job to change the syle to something that does work. I have been to so many venues that the Dj has his head down for most of his set not even looking up to see the reaction of the crowd, or playing to a couple of his mates to show off that he has a rare and underplayed tune that no one else has got, not taking any notice of the dance floor. This is not aimed at the Northern scene in general, but in all genres of the dance music scene. If DJs want to play records that only they and a few of his mates like, then he should do it at home, not at a place where he is getting paid to perform. The magic formula is to play most tunes that people know, and then slot one in now and again that they don't know, this is the simplest and most effective form of educating a crowd, eventually, the crowd will get to recognise the 'new' tune and probably dance to it, then the DJ knows that it works.

Go on, iv'e got mi crash helmet on!!

Edited February 24, 200817 yr by steveluigi

Can I also add (and I may gain a few enemies for this but it needs to be said), that a Dj is paid to entertain the crowds, hence being a part of the 'Entertainment industry', they are paid to fill the dance floor or as near as dammit using his ability to please the punters. If a style of music isn't working the floor then it's the DJs job to change the syle to something that does work. I have been to so many venues that the Dj has his head down for most of his set not even looking up to see the reaction of the crowd, or playing to a couple of his mates to show off that he has a rare and underplayed tune that no one else has got, not taking any notice of the dance floor. This is not aimed at the Northern scene in general, but in all genres of the dance music scene. If DJs want to play records that only they and a few of his mates like, then he should do it at home, not at a place where he is getting paid to perform. The magic formula is to play most tunes that people know, and then slot one in now and again that they don't know, this is the simplest and most effective form of educating a crowd, eventually, the crowd will get to recognise the 'new' tune and probably dance to it, then the DJ knows that it works.

Go on, iv'e got mi crash helmet on!!

Can't fault ya

Can I also add (and I may gain a few enemies for this but it needs to be said), that a Dj is paid to entertain the crowds, hence being a part of the 'Entertainment industry', they are paid to fill the dance floor or as near as dammit using his ability to please the punters. If a style of music isn't working the floor then it's the DJs job to change the syle to something that does work. I have been to so many venues that the Dj has his head down for most of his set not even looking up to see the reaction of the crowd, or playing to a couple of his mates to show off that he has a rare and underplayed tune that no one else has got, not taking any notice of the dance floor. This is not aimed at the Northern scene in general, but in all genres of the dance music scene. If DJs want to play records that only they and a few of his mates like, then he should do it at home, not at a place where he is getting paid to perform. The magic formula is to play most tunes that people know, and then slot one in now and again that they don't know, this is the simplest and most effective form of educating a crowd, eventually, the crowd will get to recognise the 'new' tune and probably dance to it, then the DJ knows that it works.

Go on, iv'e got mi crash helmet on!!

Promoters should employ the right DJ for the night...........why should a DJ play lowest common denominator sounds just to fill a dance floor if that isnt the kind of 'sound' they would normally play. Having said that I have turned down DJ sets in the past cos I knew that I couldnt/wouldnt go down well at the venue. I dont really care that much about these kind of events, on the whole they dont enter my universe, cos Im into NS .

Russ

Can I also add (and I may gain a few enemies for this but it needs to be said), that a Dj is paid to entertain the crowds, hence being a part of the 'Entertainment industry', they are paid to fill the dance floor or as near as dammit using his ability to please the punters. If a style of music isn't working the floor then it's the DJs job to change the syle to something that does work. I have been to so many venues that the Dj has his head down for most of his set not even looking up to see the reaction of the crowd, or playing to a couple of his mates to show off that he has a rare and underplayed tune that no one else has got, not taking any notice of the dance floor. This is not aimed at the Northern scene in general, but in all genres of the dance music scene. If DJs want to play records that only they and a few of his mates like, then he should do it at home, not at a place where he is getting paid to perform. The magic formula is to play most tunes that people know, and then slot one in now and again that they don't know, this is the simplest and most effective form of educating a crowd, eventually, the crowd will get to recognise the 'new' tune and probably dance to it, then the DJ knows that it works.

Go on, iv'e got mi crash helmet on!!

Steve i do agree with you on the "magic formula" it would certainly work if you have a regular (weekly)gig playing for 2 - 4 hour sets where as a dj you can develope a relationship with the crowd.

However on the northern scene dj's all too often have 30-40 mins spots, which leaves little leeway for your "formula" .

Derek

Promoters should employ the right DJ for the night...........why should a DJ play lowest common denominator sounds just to fill a dance floor if that isnt the kind of 'sound' they would normally play. Having said that I have turned down DJ sets in the past cos I knew that I couldnt/wouldnt go down well at the venue. I dont really care that much about these kind of events, on the whole they dont enter my universe, cos Im into NS .

Russ

I knew you were a top bloke after meeting you on Friday. This post just confirms it.

Phil.

My german isn't that good anymore but the gist seemed to be "how amazing that someone plays records these days and look how much they cost"

A full translation would be nice and also the details of the last track played

Hi Paul,

Sorry this is a bit off topic, but here is a recent finished auction of the featured record: https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...A:IT&ih=011

But the seller is Dante Carfagne, and he has a chest full of them, so perhaps not so tough any more. He's known for robbing artists as well and has regularly pulled tricks like this for years now, so be careful buying from him. If you contact him I'll wager he'll be able to offer you one at finished auction price, and another, and another, and another...

Jail is too good for him. He's a thief, he cons collectors and the original artists. If you buy anything from him you are likely to be receiving stolen property. I'll have to pull out the old dossier on him as this is backed up with evidence and statements from artists and collectors world wide.

He's evil, be careful...

You dont remember the pages and pages of letters in Blues and Soul about the 70s stuff being played, and the big division back then? I think you are airbrushing this out by impressing your views and letting it distort your memory. i was introduced to Northern Soul in 1977, and one of the first things I noticed was some people were forcably against stuff like Ladies choice being played at Wigan.

I'm sure SHSDave was one of those at the forefront of the backlash. I've known him for a good few years, and he has never waivered from his stance. He cant be faulted for his passion for 60s soul though.

You're right Mike, it's nothign new and there's plenty of fall-out in mags going way back.

I'm in the middle of moving house at the moment and our youth was giving us a hand hump and dump stuff. We got a bit sidetracked when we were sifting through old BE's/B&S - Sam's stance on why Bill Pursell and Charlie Gracie should be played bought a few memories back; letters in relation to Clifton Hall, with people getting their knickers in a twist over the Preston St. Dancers and all the new releases being played - some which garner big bucks indeed these days. It seems to be an institutionalised division.

It's never really bothered me personally - I remember two mates having a ding dong as far back as the Pier days in relation to too much 'funky stuff' being played; and again over Clifton Hall, I remember arguing all day at Sleaford Carnival - of all places - of why stuff like Charles Johnson, Love Committee et al should be played; and even at Stafford, somebody was wanting to 'discuss' why too much 'newer' stuff was being played. I started subconsciously filtering stuff out after that and just tried to enjoy the music, whatever the period - although I remember getting into a total bizarre conversation at an early Soul Essence - apparently not enough 60s were being played there (it was the one when Ady pitched up with Sam Dee's).

Err, read the can, and if it's too spicy for you, put it back on the shelf.

Something great always comes out of these different factions of " northern soul" in the end ... I got into 70's with Sam and Arthur as the 60's newies that were being played sounded like the "punk rock" of northern soul to me...... but the cream came to the top and you hear them as classics now ! .....same with the 70's , 80's , 90's and the R n B areas as well as the rare soul sounds.... if they have the quality to move into the main room and fill the floor they will .... so without these factions of the scene all we would hear is classic oldies and I don't think there would be as many venue's or people still going every week if that was the case ?????? my big problem with the scene is the sound systems at most venue's are awful but that's another thread !

Edited February 26, 200817 yr by CAMBRIDGE SOUL

Yes there was a division'ish even in the 70s, what with Wigan etc. and Blackpool Mecca and the like, but folks from the Casino type places would also go to the Mecca and vise versa. What a wonderful world it would be if all types of Soul music was played at one venue. I'd definately be up for it.

there is lowton are in there 12th year or somthing like that , having mentiond that even lowton hasant got the numbers it used to pull in or may be am wrong not sure but one reason for this is the amount of clubs springing up all over the place and this is also part of the reason why a lot of clubs are not doing to good

Can I also add (and I may gain a few enemies for this but it needs to be said), that a Dj is paid to entertain the crowds, hence being a part of the 'Entertainment industry', they are paid to fill the dance floor or as near as dammit using his ability to please the punters. If a style of music isn't working the floor then it's the DJs job to change the syle to something that does work. I have been to so many venues that the Dj has his head down for most of his set not even looking up to see the reaction of the crowd, or playing to a couple of his mates to show off that he has a rare and underplayed tune that no one else has got, not taking any notice of the dance floor. This is not aimed at the Northern scene in general, but in all genres of the dance music scene. If DJs want to play records that only they and a few of his mates like, then he should do it at home, not at a place where he is getting paid to perform. The magic formula is to play most tunes that people know, and then slot one in now and again that they don't know, this is the simplest and most effective form of educating a crowd, eventually, the crowd will get to recognise the 'new' tune and probably dance to it, then the DJ knows that it works.

Go on, iv'e got mi crash helmet on!!

Totally disagree Steve

Surely the whole esscence of "NORTHERN SOUL" has been built around dj's/collectors discovering/unearthing fantastic, soul records.

Back in the beginning was there commercial chart soul records being played at"NORTHERN SOUL" venues ,and the odd unknown ,non-hit record slipped in??i don't think so

I remember going to my first northern night ,cant remember the exact records ,Delites-lover,lou Johnson -unsatisfied ,Gene chandler etc etc,made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.I still get the same buzz now when i hear something that is unbelievably good.

I was at Prestatyn when Carl Willingham was on at 5am ,he played loads of records i'd never heard,i was on dancefloor for the full hr.

Twas the first time i heard SOUL BROS-INC-TEARDROP.Did'nt have a clue what it was,how rare,how expensive,just blew me away.

To me ,Steve ,i think it is about dj's playing unbelievably soulful music,no matter how rare,or unknown the record is.

Regarding being classed as an entertainer,how many "Northern soul" dj's at local venues get payed enough to justify the crap they take from narrow minded individuals.

How many do it because they've spent their hard earned on great records and just wanna share them with the masses.

Surely across a night ,with say ,4-5 different dj's ,doing 1hr or split half hr spots ,there has to be something for everyone,and no reason for complaint!

I remember being at a local venue,which had booked a fellow dj/collector ,because his reputation preceded him.It was about 5yrs ago ,he played Harold Melvin's-Praying,and emptied the floor,except for a small group.One guy said to me "if they are gonna book dj's playing shite like this ,then they wont be getting my money"! I was at same venue about a yr back,same record ,stampede,inc guy who made original comment.

Point is someone had to be brave enough to do it and at that pace ,most of us will be dead before our individual,current top 20 latest buys ,hit the masses .

As this is a "rare soul forum" i believe i'm amongst people who care passionatly about the music and the health of the scene ,and who would prefer to frequent a venue having a more open minded music

policy.The scene you describe is the one full of "stuck in the past" people who prefer to dress up to look the part, try to mimmick people who used to go to wigan et al,want to be seen at"real" soul venues and then systematically ruin them.

Don't get me wrong i know loads of people in this category,i enjoy going to venues to chat with them ,simply because ,they are old friends ,good citizens ,but musically they could'nt give a shit if it all stopped tomorrow.They'd go back to WMC ,pay a cover charge ,listen to a mediocre comedian,club singer and play bingo half way thru

Ive lost count of how many once great venues that have fallen to the wannabe weekend soulies .

POLITICS IS A WORD USED ,ALL TOO OFTEN,

BY PEOPLE WHO FEEL THREATENED BY THERE OWN IGNORANCE

Totally disagree Steve

Surely the whole esscence of "NORTHERN SOUL" has been built around dj's/collectors discovering/unearthing fantastic, soul records.

Back in the beginning was there commercial chart soul records being played at"NORTHERN SOUL" venues ,and the odd unknown ,non-hit record slipped in??i don't think so

I remember going to my first northern night ,cant remember the exact records ,Delites-lover,lou Johnson -unsatisfied ,Gene chandler etc etc,made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.I still get the same buzz now when i hear something that is unbelievably good.

I was at Prestatyn when Carl Willingham was on at 5am ,he played loads of records i'd never heard,i was on dancefloor for the full hr.

Twas the first time i heard SOUL BROS-INC-TEARDROP.Did'nt have a clue what it was,how rare,how expensive,just blew me away.

To me ,Steve ,i think it is about dj's playing unbelievably soulful music,no matter how rare,or unknown the record is.

Regarding being classed as an entertainer,how many "Northern soul" dj's at local venues get payed enough to justify the crap they take from narrow minded individuals.

How many do it because they've spent their hard earned on great records and just wanna share them with the masses.

Surely across a night ,with say ,4-5 different dj's ,doing 1hr or split half hr spots ,there has to be something for everyone,and no reason for complaint!

I remember being at a local venue,which had booked a fellow dj/collector ,because his reputation preceded him.It was about 5yrs ago ,he played Harold Melvin's-Praying,and emptied the floor,except for a small group.One guy said to me "if they are gonna book dj's playing shite like this ,then they wont be getting my money"! I was at same venue about a yr back,same record ,stampede,inc guy who made original comment.

Point is someone had to be brave enough to do it and at that pace ,most of us will be dead before our individual,current top 20 latest buys ,hit the masses .

As this is a "rare soul forum" i believe i'm amongst people who care passionatly about the music and the health of the scene ,and who would prefer to frequent a venue having a more open minded music

policy.The scene you describe is the one full of "stuck in the past" people who prefer to dress up to look the part, try to mimmick people who used to go to wigan et al,want to be seen at"real" soul venues and then systematically ruin them.

Don't get me wrong i know loads of people in this category,i enjoy going to venues to chat with them ,simply because ,they are old friends ,good citizens ,but musically they could'nt give a shit if it all stopped tomorrow.They'd go back to WMC ,pay a cover charge ,listen to a mediocre comedian,club singer and play bingo half way thru

Ive lost count of how many once great venues that have fallen to the wannabe weekend soulies .

POLITICS IS A WORD USED ,ALL TOO OFTEN,

BY PEOPLE WHO FEEL THREATENED BY THERE OWN IGNORANCE

Spot on!

KTF

Baz

Spot on!

KTF

Baz

Thanx Baz

out of interest ,are you having breakfast as you read this ???

Totally disagree Steve

Surely the whole esscence of "NORTHERN SOUL" has been built around dj's/collectors discovering/unearthing fantastic, soul records.

Back in the beginning was there commercial chart soul records being played at"NORTHERN SOUL" venues ,and the odd unknown ,non-hit record slipped in??i don't think so

I remember going to my first northern night ,cant remember the exact records ,Delites-lover,lou Johnson -unsatisfied ,Gene chandler etc etc,made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.I still get the same buzz now when i hear something that is unbelievably good.

I was at Prestatyn when Carl Willingham was on at 5am ,he played loads of records i'd never heard,i was on dancefloor for the full hr.

Twas the first time i heard SOUL BROS-INC-TEARDROP.Did'nt have a clue what it was,how rare,how expensive,just blew me away.

To me ,Steve ,i think it is about dj's playing unbelievably soulful music,no matter how rare,or unknown the record is.

Regarding being classed as an entertainer,how many "Northern soul" dj's at local venues get payed enough to justify the crap they take from narrow minded individuals.

How many do it because they've spent their hard earned on great records and just wanna share them with the masses.

Surely across a night ,with say ,4-5 different dj's ,doing 1hr or split half hr spots ,there has to be something for everyone,and no reason for complaint!

I remember being at a local venue,which had booked a fellow dj/collector ,because his reputation preceded him.It was about 5yrs ago ,he played Harold Melvin's-Praying,and emptied the floor,except for a small group.One guy said to me "if they are gonna book dj's playing shite like this ,then they wont be getting my money"! I was at same venue about a yr back,same record ,stampede,inc guy who made original comment.

Point is someone had to be brave enough to do it and at that pace ,most of us will be dead before our individual,current top 20 latest buys ,hit the masses .

As this is a "rare soul forum" i believe i'm amongst people who care passionatly about the music and the health of the scene ,and who would prefer to frequent a venue having a more open minded music

policy.The scene you describe is the one full of "stuck in the past" people who prefer to dress up to look the part, try to mimmick people who used to go to wigan et al,want to be seen at"real" soul venues and then systematically ruin them.

Don't get me wrong i know loads of people in this category,i enjoy going to venues to chat with them ,simply because ,they are old friends ,good citizens ,but musically they could'nt give a shit if it all stopped tomorrow.They'd go back to WMC ,pay a cover charge ,listen to a mediocre comedian,club singer and play bingo half way thru

Ive lost count of how many once great venues that have fallen to the wannabe weekend soulies .

POLITICS IS A WORD USED ,ALL TOO OFTEN,

BY PEOPLE WHO FEEL THREATENED BY THERE OWN IGNORANCE

GREAT POST MATE.