has the millionaires/and the rains came on speciality.ever been reissued.many thanks the mouse..

has the millionaires/and the rains came on speciality.ever been reissued.many thanks the mouse..

Not that i know of but there are two different presses both on specialty 694 one with a bevelled edge, and one with a flat edge,the flat press being the rarer

Not that i know of but there are two different presses both on specialty 694 one with a bevelled edge, and one with a flat edge,the flat press being the rarer

thanks for that harry.it came in a speciality sleeve.the sleeve looks like its from the eighties has send for free catalouge on it.so just made me think.did want to resell it but wanted to be sure before put up for sale..

I think you are safe with that one mate...was a cheapie until a couple of years ago so could`nt see it getting booted....

Chris

The bevelled edge issue is indeed a reissue, made for the group harmony market in the late 70s or early 80s.

Hardly anyone mentions this when it's up for sale.

Only the flat edged copies are originals and they are from 1969.

Edited May 13, 200817 yr by Sebastian

The bevelled edge issue is indeed a reissue, made for the group harmony market in the late 70s or early 80s.

Hardly anyone mentions this when it's up for sale.

Only the flat edged copies are originals and they are from 1969.

Do you mean the bevel is on the inner label i.e. by the centre hole?

Cheers

Paul

Do you mean the bevel is on the inner label i.e. by the centre hole?

No, the bevel is on the outer edge of the vinyl (like on many other late 70s/early 80s discs).

The outer edge should be totally flat if it is an original copy.

No, the bevel is on the outer edge of the vinyl (like on many other late 70s/early 80s discs).

The outer edge should be totally flat if it is an original copy.

Phew

Thanks

Paul

The bevelled edge issue is indeed a reissue, made for the group harmony market in the late 70s or early 80s.

Hardly anyone mentions this when it's up for sale.

Only the flat edged copies are originals and they are from 1969.

Thanks for that one sebastian, never new that and as you say its never mentioned in sales, in fact ive seen these go for £50 good price for what is really a re-issue then

Thanks for that one sebastian, never new that and as you say its never mentioned in sales, in fact ive seen these go for £50 good price for what is really a re-issue then

Wouldnt give ya' £50 for a real one,sold mine for a tenner........so dull it sends me to sleep.

Wouldnt give ya' £50 for a real one

sold mine for a tenner........

so dull it sends me to sleep.

I think these 3 facts are related in some way

Mine was one of the first records I bought from the states in the late 90's after hearing it on a tape from Nancy Yahiro. CHOON!

It was on an 18 page list that a record dealer sent me before they all found ebay. 6 dollars.

I was working from the front and ordering in batches of 5-10, nothing more than 10 dollars a record. I found out later Martin T was working from the back of it at the same time so I reached the Millionaires before him but he reached the Cliff Nobles - My Love Is Getting Stronger before I did

I probably missed loads too in my ignorance.

Cheers

Paul

I think these 3 facts are related in some way

Mine was one of the first records I bought from the states in the late 90's after hearing it on a tape from Nancy Yahiro. CHOON!

It was on an 18 page list that a record dealer sent me before they all found ebay. 6 dollars.

I was working from the front and ordering in batches of 5-10, nothing more than 10 dollars a record. I found out later Martin T was working from the back of it at the same time so I reached the Millionaires before him but he reached the Cliff Nobles - My Love Is Getting Stronger before I did

I probably missed loads too in my ignorance.

Cheers

Paul

All done that one paul in one way or another, theres a story about ej chandler, when it was still covered as the superlatives i`ll tell you one day

The bevelled edge issue is indeed a reissue, made for the group harmony market in the late 70s or early 80s.

Hardly anyone mentions this when it's up for sale.

Only the flat edged copies are originals and they are from 1969.

Sebastian,

All our "bevelled" edge copies came from the Oakland "Dobard" stock of Berkeley, California Music City shop. Which closed it's doors I in the very early 70s. They are certainly not 80s reissues. The flipside is bluesy/soul so of no interest to the harmony market, and the top side wouldn't appeal much either.

Specialty repressed almost all their titles continually they were very aggressive distributors of their product, and you can find most titles in "flat edge" and "bevelled" edge styles. we sell the "bevelled" Millionaires slightly cheaper than the flat edged press which was made January 1970.

Unfortuantely at the moment we are out of stock of the "bevelled" edge release but I suspect they used the same master plates, perhaps you can let me know if you have a copy what the deadwax markings are. Flat edge was pressed at MONACH delta# 78874

Bootlegs they are not, I just presume Specialty used a different pressing plant for the second run sometime in the early 70s.

Edited May 13, 200817 yr by john manship

Sebastian,

All our "bevelled" edge copies came from the Oakland "Dobard" stock of Berkeley, California Music City shop. Which closed it's doors I in the very early 70s. They are certainly not 80s reissues. The flipside is bluesy/soul so of no interest to the harmony market, and the top side wouldn't appeal much either.

Specialty repressed almost all their titles continually they were very aggressive distributors of their product, and you can find most titles in "flat edge" and "bevelled" edge styles. we sell the "bevelled" Millionaires slightly cheaper than the flat edged press which was made January 1970.

Unfortuantely at the moment we are out of stock of the "bevelled" edge release but I suspect they used the same master plates, perhaps you can let me know if you have a copy what the deadwax markings are. Flat edge was pressed at MONACH delta# 78874

Bootlegs they are not, I just presume Specialty used a different pressing plant for the second run in the early 70s.

Now i`m well confused i was under this impression john but allways am happy to be corrected, its how ive allways learned

All our "bevelled" edge copies came from the Oakland "Dobard" stock of Berkeley, California Music City shop. Which closed it's doors I in the very early 70s. They are certainly not 80s reissues. The flipside is bluesy/soul so of no interest to the harmony market, and the top side wouldn't appeal much either.

Specialty repressed almost all their titles continually they were very aggressive distributors of their product, and you can find most titles in "flat edge" and "bevelled" edge styles. we sell the "bevelled" Millionaires slightly cheaper than the flat edged press which was made January 1970.

Unfortuantely at the moment we are out of stock of the "bevelled" edge release but I suspect they used the same master plates, perhaps you can let me know if you have a copy what the deadwax markings are. Flat edge was pressed at MONACH delta# 78874

Bootlegs they are not, I just presume Specialty used a different pressing plant for the second run sometime in the early 70s.

I'm sure you are right, the info I read was probably wrong. I don't have a bevelled edge copy at the moment, so can't compare the matrix details. Anyone else?

has the millionaires - and the rains came on specialty been booted as claimed in tim browns book? and what are the differences ?

wouldnt suprise me if it has

Who would bother it's rubbish.

has the millionaires - and the rains came on specialty been booted as claimed in tim browns book? and what are the differences ?

hold it up to a light - brownish - see-thorighish type vinyl

if it's the brownish see through type vinyl it will also have a raised lip around the outside of the record, similar to what you get on certain King 45s from the 60s if you've seen them & know what I mean. The 80s Specialty boots are pretty easy to tell if you have one in your hand.

When we had this discussion on here a couple of years ago it was suggested that the "bevelled edge" copies were from a later pressing batch legally done by Specialty in the early 70s (because the title was kept in print):

Edited March 12, 201114 yr by Sebastian

original has a west coast delta stamp .there could be one in sales today

dave

Edited March 12, 201114 yr by dave pinch

Like Sebastian says its not a boot but a later press

repressed in the 70's when Rupe reactivated the label again and re-releasing titles until 1990 when Art Rupe sold the label to Fantasy Records. Quick google will give you plenty of reading.

Flat copies the rarer original, bevelled copies the 70's re-press.

rubbish? no

will have a raised lip around the outside of the record, similar to what you get on certain King 45s from the 60s if you've seen them & know what I mean.

I know I'm going off topic slightly........ regarding the raised lip (on King/Federal 45s) are these originals, later presses or re-issue?

Have often wondered. Kris / anyone confirm?

I'm the one being accused of selling 80s bootlegs, i believe the difference in the issues are just regional pressing variations from the same period, you see this all the time, i have demos and issue of these on vinyl that are not flat but must be early, id say 71-72 latest but my gut says 60s to me, i know they cant be 80s. Tricky record anyway so who cares.

Edited March 12, 201114 yr by fryer

NOBODY HAS ACCUSED YOU OF SELLING BOOTS , I JUST SAID THAT THE COPY YOU SOLD ME IS NOT A 60S ORIGINAL AS IT HAS A LIP AROUND THE EDGE AND IS BROWNISH WHEN YOU HOLD IT UP TO THE LIGHT. THE SIXTIES COPY IS FLAT. YOUR ATTITUDE IS TERRIBLE ANYWAY , PLENTY PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THIS!!

Im the one getting noised up for selling an "80 bootleg", The non flat copies will be regional presses from the same period no, they feel 60s. Seems to me the flat ones will just be a regional variation of the pressing (probably L.A) and regular old folklore has labeled them originals one evening for some reason.

Edited March 12, 201114 yr by fryer

Rather than have two topics on the go I've merged them both, all the relevant info then in one topic

My attitude ?? I said return the record and i'd be more than happy refund you. i don't have to agree with your perception of the facts in order to not have an attitude. I just disagree and that's my choice, i have seen local rare funk records with different pressing from the same period, Speciality is a much larger label so its no stretch to assume there could be multiple pressing from the period. I have picked up multiple speciality 45 untouched since the late 60s in this pressing style so why not this one?

Edited March 12, 201114 yr by fryer

what people are kind of missing here is the fact that there are 3 distinct variants of some Specialty 45s. There are vintage presses with both flat & raised edges. Then there are 80s presses which also have the raised edge but when you hold it up to a bright light you can actually see through it (like RCA & Ripete presses from the same era), these feel very much like an 80s record & originally came in a thin stock cardboard Specialty sleeve. These are dead simple to ID because they look & feel like an 80s pressed 45.

The vintage raised edge presses are similar to the King presses which also have raised edges & to answer another question above, the King 45s are originals.

also, if anyone is wondering, the bevelled edge Millionaires (which I believe to be a vintage1970s repress since it is not see through) has the following scratched in the run out: S-694-7013

Other 1970s represses with bevelled edges will have the 45-SP-catalog#-master# system (the same numbers as on the actual late 50s flat edge presses indicating use of the same plates?)

The original flat edge presses from the reactivated Specialty in 1970 have the triangle prefix Delta # as well as the release# & master# scatched in the runoff.

The 80s presses will be some sort of see through color (be it brown or a dark purple/blue) when held up to the light. In the runout they also have the 45-SP-catalog#-master# this probably indicates reuse of plates/the same plant used for the other 70s represses but at some point around 1980 at a guess the plant changed the consistency of the vinyl used.

The sleeve these came in looks like this:

front

back

none of these are boots since as stated above Specialty kept so many titles in press on 45 from the 70s onwards.

I`m in limbo what my copy is cos it has none of the above

Can anyone tell me what mine is:

Bevelled label,not see throu when put to a light and run out on And the rain comes: is at 7`oclock:694-7013 at 5`oclock:25 circled At 3 oclock:Triangle78874.

On Coffee and donuts side: 8`oclock::triangle78874-x At 12`oclock::::694-7014 At 10`oclock circled is 20 something i can`t read it,will try in the daytime tm.

is the edge of the vinyl (not the label) on yours flat? I would assume so because of the triangle number. The circle thing is a stamp that is on the west coast delta presses, it's hard to make out.

If the edge of the record is flat it is definitely the 1970 press that you have.

by a flat edge do you mean injection moulded styrene pressing?

by a flat edge do you mean injection moulded styrene pressing?

no, just a normal flat run in groove as opposed to a raised bevelled edge.

tried to take pics but don't think they really do it justice

raised edge

flat edge

Pretty confusing thread this one - people are talking about 'flat' edged and bevelled and in the next breath - as an example - mention a 'raised' edge, how can flat or bevelled be raised? Also how can you have a 1970 copy when it came out in '69?

Edited March 13, 201114 yr by Mike Lofthouse

I`m in limbo what my copy is cos it has none of the above

Can anyone tell me what mine is:

Bevelled label,not see throu when put to a light and run out on And the rain comes: is at 7`oclock:694-7013 at 5`oclock:25 circled At 3 oclock:Triangle78874.

On Coffee and donuts side: 8`oclock::triangle78874-x At 12`oclock::::694-7014 At 10`oclock circled is 20 something i can`t read it,will try in the daytime tm.

Triangle 78874 is a Monarch press is it not and that puts it at somewhere between Nov and Dec 1969 according to the chart?. Although Monarch have MR in a circle stamped too? X denotes the flip.

is the edge of the vinyl (not the label) on yours flat? I would assume so because of the triangle number. The circle thing is a stamp that is on the west coast delta presses, it's hard to make out.

If the edge of the record is flat it is definitely the 1970 press that you have.

It`s flat Kris,so it`s a legit later press i`ve got?I only wanna know cos i tried to buy Dave`s Pinch copy to see the differance.I take it the mixs are the same?I also thought that East/West coast pressing plants pressed there run outs/covers on lp differant.

It`s flat Kris,so it`s a legit later press i`ve got?I only wanna know cos i tried to buy Dave`s Pinch copy to see the differance.I take it the mixs are the same?I also thought that East/West coast pressing plants pressed there run outs/covers on lp differant.

If it's flat with any sort of triangle led number in the run out it is the original press from when Specialty was reactivated in 1969/70.

Pretty confusing thread this one - people are talking about 'flat' edged and bevelled and in the next breath - as an example - mention a 'raised' edge, how can flat or bevelled be raised? Also how can you have a 1970 copy when it came out in '69?

I'm probably using the word bevelled wrong , I'll check. Yeah, ok, the best I can explain it is a raised lip which then bevels off for the later presses & a flat lip with perpendicular edge on the others. It was pressed very late 69, appears on discographies as 1970, so it could have a Dec 1969 press date but a Jan 1970 street date. So in this case, take my 1970 to mean 1969 if you want

I think this may help understanding of what is commonly meant by the three edge types being discussed?

The edge types are a function of the type of pressing machinery used

Edited March 14, 201114 yr by ged parker

I'm probably using the word bevelled wrong , I'll check. Yeah, ok, the best I can explain it is a raised lip which then bevels off for the later presses & a flat lip with perpendicular edge on the others. It was pressed very late 69, appears on discographies as 1970, so it could have a Dec 1969 press date but a Jan 1970 street date. So in this case, take my 1970 to mean 1969 if you want

Might have missed it but I've already said it was pressed somewhere between Nov and Dec 1969 according to the Monarch chart.

I'm probably using the word bevelled wrong , I'll check. Yeah, ok, the best I can explain it is a raised lip which then bevels off for the later presses & a flat lip with perpendicular edge on the others. It was pressed very late 69, appears on discographies as 1970, so it could have a Dec 1969 press date but a Jan 1970 street date. So in this case, take my 1970 to mean 1969 if you want

I think this may help understanding of what is commonly meant by the three edge types being discussed?

The edge types are a function of the type of pressing machinery used

Sorry, but that's a hopelessly simplistic diagramme, Ged.

There's absolutely no indication of any of the angles on the beveled or raised edges and we need that information to a fraction of a degree if we're going to finally nail this issue. I think we're going to need an electron microscope on this one chaps.

What's the bloody record worth anyway?

I think this may help understanding of what is commonly meant by the three edge types being discussed?

The edge types are a function of the type of pressing machinery used

excellent,thanks, we are definitely discussing flat vs. raised

What's the bloody record worth anyway?

not dear, only about $60, so all this over a $60 45 lol

not dear, only about $60, so all this over a $60 45 lol

$60 for both the bevelled and flat edged pressings ?

$60 for both the bevelled and flat edged pressings ?

"raised" & flat according to the above diagram

the whole issue is that it apparently doesn't matter which version, they both look the same & cost the same if you just put a label shot in your auction

$60 for both the bevelled and flat edged pressings ?

"raised" & flat according to the above diagram

the whole issue is that it apparently doesn't matter which version, they both look the same & cost the same if you just put a label shot in your auction

I think I have one with a rounded edge. Honestly.

I've checked the stamps and I think they indicate that I bought it at 10 o'clock if that helps. Obviously I'm not selling such a rarity.