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The Rave Scene/soul Scene


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Chatting to other soulies went I'm out and about, who are around the same age group as me (late 30's, early 40's) it dosen't seem like I'm the only one who moved from the soul scene of the mid-80's to the rave scene (and still attending the very occasional soul niter) and then back on the soul scene. I've often wondered how some memorable nights at clubs like the hacienda/schoom/zap and the sunrise, helter skelter nights compared to wigan, torch, mecca etc. The two scenes were basically about young people, getting off their heads and dancing the night away to great dance music. Is there anyone on here who did wigan in its peak and also did the raves as well? How did the two compare?

I'd love to know how many on here are also old ravers (and i don't mean getting off your face at a niter now!!) but did the raves back in the day and now are totally into the soul scene.

Although, music wise, the rave scene dosen't come anywhere near, there were some brilliant soul records that got me into it. Off the top of my head, for instance;

someday - ce ce rogers

reachin - phase 2

promised land - joe smooth

useless - kym mazelle

right back to you - ten city

and loads more if i think about it long enough.

So, any old ravers out there who would like to compare the two scenes?

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Guest Modern Skip Tone

Chatting to other soulies went I'm out and about, who are around the same age group as me (late 30's, early 40's) it dosen't seem like I'm the only one who moved from the soul scene of the mid-80's to the rave scene (and still attending the very occasional soul niter) and then back on the soul scene. I've often wondered how some memorable nights at clubs like the hacienda/schoom/zap and the sunrise, helter skelter nights compared to wigan, torch, mecca etc. The two scenes were basically about young people, getting off their heads and dancing the night away to great dance music. Is there anyone on here who did wigan in its peak and also did the raves as well? How did the two compare?

I'd love to know how many on here are also old ravers (and i don't mean getting off your face at a niter now!!) but did the raves back in the day and now are totally into the soul scene.

Although, music wise, the rave scene dosen't come anywhere near, there were some brilliant soul records that got me into it. Off the top of my head, for instance;

someday - ce ce rogers

reachin - phase 2

promised land - joe smooth

useless - kym mazelle

right back to you - ten city

and loads more if i think about it long enough.

So, any old ravers out there who would like to compare the two scenes?

Firstly I hate the word Ravers, we liked to be labelled CLUBBERS. There was 3 types of groups attending clubs and warehouse parties, these were:

Serious clubbers ( musically progressive and into the records and Dj know) generally off the Modern and Northern Soul Scene.

Clubbers - well dressed and willing to travel and learn, all I may state, a lot younger than the above.

Mucky druggies - normally council house/warehouse ravers journeying inside the club scene as the illegal raves closed down.

As I did both - Casino and Clubs, this is only my oppinion and generallisation - the only thing in linking the two, was the drugs, which fuelled the dancing. Musically many tunes were soulfull/gospel styled releases or newer sounds sampling soul and funk samples. I meet a flood of old soul boys and girls who like me journed along this path.

One oldies and Mr M's DJ - Shaun Gibbons ran very successfull dance nites throughout lancashire and made a mint, but as the gangland culture moved into our world, and the clubs. It was time to move on for many of us. And may I state we are still collecting northern/modern/house/garage/new and recent releases and not for one minute have we forgotten or even lost the site that ,we respected and still do respect our involvment and schooling in the world of soul music.

I am very sure we haven't heard the last on this thread, I would welcome replys and the views of Ian Dewhirst, Robin Salter and Barry May who could also compare the likes and differences. :thumbsup: .

Thank you

Nick Harrison.

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One thing I always thought different about the rave/clubbing scene compared to Northern Soul was the total lack of any social division in the mass of people who were into it. It simply took over a whole generation of young people and introduced them to the pleasures of gettin' on down. Northern Soul was, and maybe still is, a fairly working-class pleasure that mystified many of my fellow middle-class friends when I described it to them. "You mean you go all over the country to dance all night to records? How odd." was the general reaction! Fast forward a few years and the same people were all heavily into dance culture. The drugs sure helped I'll admit!

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Guest Beeks

One thing I always thought different about the rave/clubbing scene compared to Northern Soul was the total lack of any social division in the mass of people who were into it. It simply took over a whole generation of young people and introduced them to the pleasures of gettin' on down. Northern Soul was, and maybe still is, a fairly working-class pleasure that mystified many of my fellow middle-class friends when I described it to them. "You mean you go all over the country to dance all night to records? How odd." was the general reaction! Fast forward a few years and the same people were all heavily into dance culture. The drugs sure helped I'll admit!

Funny that this post has been created...Ive been thinking about this for a long time...the connections between the Club culture of the late 80s/early 90s (Which I was a part of) is there for all to see in so many ways...88 when the Blackburn raves were in full swing it was very much an exclusive and underground movement exactly like the early days of the northern movement...even the whole travelling thing...I travelled all over the UK waiting by phone boxes for news on where the event would be held...also like the Northern scene there was a big sense of family and a certain exclusivity...I see the Northern scene and the older Northern Soul goers as really pioneers of underground music not listened to by the masses...although I hate the word 'rave generation' its apt in this instance...because Northern soulies were the first of this kind in the UK...barring a 10+ gap in age between the two movements...I think they both read from the same page...

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I'd love to know how many on here are also old ravers (and i don't mean getting off your face at a niter now!!) but did the raves back in the day and now are totally into the soul scene.

a touch young for the heyday of the big warehouse parties and infamous clubs but did a lot of house music clubbing between 92-97 then stopped and then got into soul music about 99ish....

Well I mean took an interest in the culture etc etc then moved on to collecting the records and trying to learn mroe about soul music in general. Can't believe I left it as late as I did. :thumbup:

musically soul as you say wins no question but for pure atmosphere what I have seen on more recent years on soul scene gets nowhere close to what I saw in the house clubs.

don't realy listen to any house musivc now but they were special times. Doesn't seem to be anything like that happening now and I can't see what will come along and have the same impact in the future.

It must have been unreal in that 88-90 period. The older lads we knew around town used to come back with great stories about shellys in stoke, renaissance in mansfied etc etc.

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Hi definitely agree their is a strong parrallel of both scenes - interesting that House and techno both came from Detroit and Chicago primarily , also interesting thta both had that extra mix of UK passion and obssesivenous - searching for the perfect beat and rhythms.

I first went to the 100 Club in 1986 and was into the mod and sould scene from the mid 80s - then got blown away and turned on by acid house at the Hac in 1998/1989 - and couldnt believe the energy and excitement of the scene and got into it all heavily and now 20 years later into both sould and quality house

House turned into acid house with white brits back from ibiza adding ecstasy and baggy loose clothing for dancing all night mutating a black underground dance music into a whole scene

Both scenes did have an underground purist community feel - its hard to remeber how hard it was to hear obscure US house imports on dodgy independent labels like trax and dj international - no legal airplay as in late 80's radio 1 was really like the smashie and nicey parody of harry enfield being reality . so you couldnt hear the music unless you went to the few clued up clubs such as the legendary hacienda ( intrestingl also on whitworth street - home to the Twisted Wheel too! ) or Shoom & the project / future & RIP in London .

You had a camaraderie of being in the know if you saw soeone dressed in rave style clothes - like seeing a fellow soul fan or mod on the soul scene

also both scenes expereinced the huge growth as the underground becomes mainstream and the comercialisation of big raves and super clubs and maybe the dodgier wigans ovation bubble as everyone wants to get in on the act - and then come out the other side

all night dancing , rare heartfelt black music , travelling the country to get your fix of a good time

Check out faithfanzine.com House website for old Boys Own House crew like minded qulaity house djs still bringing the best of new house music in various mutations from disco , garage , house , minimla , tech jacking house . They have called themselved Faith in direct reflection of the same purist quality attitude of the northern sould scene but for house.

Djs include Terry Farley , Stuart Patterson , Rocky of xpress 2 , norman jay and bring over djs like derrick carter , timmy regisford , derrick may , AME from germany and daniel wang. so all big music lovers and knowledgable - they throw great occasional parties and would definitely recomend it - a slightly older but up for it crowd - grizzled guys and nice girls definitely recomend it

check it out - they have a mix cd out soon good intro to the quality house scene

ta

chris

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  • 13 years later...

As one of the few who went to the casino in 80/81 and then in London got familiar with the Boy's Own lot.

The camaraderie was the same in both and the bickering on each scene:)

I remember Maysey from Boy's Own saying when The Trip opened at the Astoria in 88 in London, that was it, it was over. I kind of understood what he meant. 

Probably the same way as some of you remember when Wigan let in the cameras. Once a genre gets commercialsed the lowest common denomiator prevails.

Both scenes like most scenes came from the working class.

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Well, I'll quote my brother who attended the Torch was there when Major played, plus many Wigan nighters. We stood on the balcony at the hac and said;

' the young ones who missed the torch used to ask how good the torch was, when we stood on the balcony at station road. This, he said, as we looked down on the madness of a 'nude' night, is on another level.'

The halcyon days of house, were truly something else. But atm going to Burnley, or the hundred is so much more musically satisfying than any retro house night, for me at least. That would be something if we could see a renaissance of modern and northern played together in one room in a big venue. Just think, JJ callier and Michael proctor on the same playlist.🤔

Edited by Geeselad
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I migrated from UK in 89 , arrived in Australia thinking i was the only person who was into Northern/ modern soul . I started going to the early sydney raves and parties for close to eight years as i thought there was no soul scene . Buying house 12,s  at a Sydney record shop i chanced upon a flyer for a Northern soul night ! i accidently found out that there was a thriving soul scene in Sydney!

 

Still collect Deep house and soulful house and modern soul

Edited by Pete Morgan
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The halcyon days of house were amazing, I remember distinctly coming down in car park at Shelleys playing Ted Massey tapes to my mates... some of them were 'Soulies', most were not,  but I think after being blasted by 'Cubik & Frank De Wolf ' it was a welcome change of pace to listen to 'Jesse Davis and Jock Mitchell' 🙂

Did I meet you Pete in Sydney? i moved out there in 2003 and lived in Waverton just off the pacific highway for a few years...

appy dayz

Edited by Mal C
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I remember going to an Northern all-nighter in Coventry in the early 90's and bumping into our daughters who were attending a rave on the upper floors of the venue when they came downstairs to see what was going on there. Quite a few ravers did the same and stood around bewildered at what they were seeing with all these 'oldies' toeing and heeling across the floor. I don't think the visit to the other genre was reciprocated by any of the soulies but who knows some could of been converted to  the whistles etc.

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34 minutes ago, Vadnochka said:

I remember going to an Northern all-nighter in Coventry in the early 90's and bumping into our daughters who were attending a rave on the upper floors of the venue when they came downstairs to see what was going on there. Quite a few ravers did the same and stood around bewildered at what they were seeing with all these 'oldies' toeing and heeling across the floor. I don't think the visit to the other genre was reciprocated by any of the soulies but who knows some could of been converted to  the whistles etc.

The eclipse club, I reckon?

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Yes that's right  - I remember telling a couple of stoned ravers to fuck off out of my earshot with those whistles as I'd paid good money to listen to our music not their stupid whistles. My missus told me to calm down -'wankers' said I.

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1 hour ago, Vadnochka said:

Yes that's right  - I remember telling a couple of stoned ravers to fuck off out of my earshot with those whistles as I'd paid good money to listen to our music not their stupid whistles. My missus told me to calm down -'wankers' said I.

I was there that night at Amnesia, I heard there was a northern do on... small world...

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42 minutes ago, Bunderthollox said:

House of God Digbeth Institute Birmingham 

ahhh, the Institute! cant remember exactly but I think House of God was either run by some of the Wolverhampton lot, or it could have been Lee Fisher and his crowd from Kings Standing, I went a few times, didn't like the club its self,  even then I was pinning for a comfy sofa and small dance floor 🙂

this is a bit of shamless plug, but if your interested I interviewed an old friend Martin Redmond who ran Shelleys  several times about the early years, 89/90 this one is about shelleys b4 all the Cov lot got in there, bit about Soul in here and Kool Kat records...

Mal

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Early to mid 90' raves and the scene around them were amazing.  We travelled around quite a bit and cant remember ever having a bad night anywhere to be honest.  Fantazia, Amnesia etc etc etc and I can easily listen to the music now.  A few hairy moments chucked in and our group nearly getting shot once but on the whole I am so glad to of been around at the right time to of been part of it.  The midlands was a great part of the rave scene with plenty of legal and illegal gatherings.

Soul music was always there though from being very young and having music on in the house (dad was a Wigan regular) and then when I was older with my own 80' soul and made a leap to Northern about early 2000's and starting buying records about 10 years ago.

As many do I would of loved to of experienced Wigan, The torch etc. 

When you see the younger crowd out in clubs today (on facebook etc and not in person!!) they spend more time pissing about with phones than actually having a great time to the music!!

Edited by Coalvillefletch
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1 hour ago, Mal C said:

! cant remember exactly but I think House of God was either run by some of the Wolverhampton lot, or it could have been Lee Fis

Neil Surreal is a name that rings a bell for me. Im sure hes still about. :) Epic nights

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1 hour ago, Bunderthollox said:

Neil Surreal is a name that rings a bell for me. Im sure hes still about. :) Epic nights

And yes Wolverhampton Ithink youre right Gabba at that time. :)

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I did allnighters including the casino from the late 70's through to the late 80's, and combined them with 6/8 month periods hitting the Goa beach parties which turned into full blown raves. Although I am a total N/S lover, my memories of the big parties in Goa are sure comparable.

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I find it quite strange how anyone that loves soul music could take rave/techno seriously.

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Jules, I understand your feelings on this......but for me it was the change of drug that did it.....speed to mdma......both used to fit the nights and make them superb.

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5 minutes ago, Ratt said:

Jules, I understand your feelings on this......but for me it was the change of drug that did it.....speed to mdma......both used to fit the nights and make them superb.

ok, I see your point, personally I didnt indulge in narcotics and it was all about the music for me, I often wonder if people that went to the raves look back at the playlists?

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14 minutes ago, Jules said:

I find it quite strange how anyone that loves soul music could take rave/techno seriously.

Easy Jules, lots of soul boys and girls liked Punk, psychobilly etc, for the energy I guess, House, then Rave etc etc, was the same. Believe me when I say there was allot of crap that came out, but there was so much good stuff that did. Im only really interested in mid eighties till 91, after that I would not be able to say...

 

Edited by Mal C
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Yes that's right  - I remember telling a couple of stoned ravers to fuck off out of my earshot with those whistles as I'd paid good money to listen to our music not their stupid whistles. My missus told me to calm down -'wankers' said I.

Also I was heavily into garment manufacturing - massive Lycra fashion gear and amazing prints from our textile print works - we also had a branded manufacturing set-up for Fred Perry / Pringle / Canterbury / Donnay / River Island / East Side / Top Shop and numerous others - Footwear for M&S / Clarkes / Start-rite and of course the good old BSC ( Dolcis / Lilly & Skinner / Freeman Hardy Willis / Curtess / Saxone etc

No wonder those good old working class boys could afford to buy any sound back then - My 1st wife was the senior designer for Formula 1 merchandise - we met at school in the 60's. Our kids were the best dressed / street cred offspring in history.

Anyway back to the internet - already bought 4 tonight - there's a few more out there tonight

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I studied fashion in London from 87 till 90.  Returning home at weekends some of my northern soul friends had started to go the hacienda. Mike Pickering, talked about the musical split between north and south clubs, with the north being first to accept house music. For a short time there was a definite split between the type of house being played, Sasha and others initially pushed a soulful sound that contrasted sharply with the 'headf**k' as we termed it, that Fabio and grooverider offered. Shelly's Friday night attracted people from all over the north west, Saturday's eclipse crowd was drawing ravers from the south and Midlands. 

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Listening to an 80s soul mix tonight has revived more memories Another feature I do remember is when the rave scene started breaking out of South of Wandsworth Bridge...(just before the press started with their acid house tales of people freaking out and dying  at ' raves)   near abouts the Rasta temple in 88. Everyone was still pubbing on Fridays but there was loads of black and white youth walking about together dressed in sort of what I'd describe as cultish garb flowing clothes, none of that smiley face bollocks... smiling a lot, they was definitely not going in the pubs,  the area  had been a frontline down that way with the black people the law and the whites and it seemed to melt away over night..like peace and broken out all over, nobody could handle it, the cops twiddling their thumbs,   other youth cults shaking their heads asking what the f*cks going on, and I believe a much better development and  understanding between black and white youth  in many areas football hools got into it of course and mellowed for a long while...  completely .the fashions changed obviously but the attitudes remained cool v..another point .as regard NS scene similar in that if a record charted it was generally gone as the Indy  record production was so fast and furious this is borne out today in places like Notting Hill music exchange they have an ocean of that in the basements...I remember Doop being dropped at the first light of dawn at the end of a long night in Hackney  and it was as you'd imagine an absolute banger. After that never heard it played in the Indy clubs as it hit the twat farms a fortnight later in Leicester Square 

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17 hours ago, Geeselad said:

I studied fashion in London from 87 till 90.  Returning home at weekends some of my northern soul friends had started to go the hacienda. Mike Pickering, talked about the musical split between north and south clubs, with the north being first to accept house music. For a short time there was a definite split between the type of house being played, Sasha and others initially pushed a soulful sound that contrasted sharply with the 'headf**k' as we termed it, that Fabio and grooverider offered. Shelly's Friday night attracted people from all over the north west, Saturday's eclipse crowd was drawing ravers from the south and Midlands. 

You know I love you brother, BUT! we have had this conversation before! laughing

Sat nights at Shelley's went on for a good while before the Amnesia lot got in 🙂 I'm just saying, Shelley's was down to Martin Redmond originally, he started it, an accolade he's never really received properly in my opinion. And we were all from Birmingham... The Manchester lot started coming after the night when Derek May played, that was Aug 1990, then one of the Mix Mag guys who was part of that Sat night started to push Sasha, the rest is history as they say...

just setting the record straight...  as I do feel quite strongly about the kind of forgotten history of this club, with a bit of passion of course  🙂

Mal

Edited by Mal C
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Not to stick it up anybody, but do check this out, this was the prior interview with Martin Redmond, covers this period exactly. 1990

 

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On 22/11/2021 at 10:07, Mal C said:

The halcyon days of house were amazing, I remember distinctly coming down in car park at Shelleys playing Ted Massey tapes to my mates... some of them were 'Soulies', most were not,  but I think after being blasted by 'Cubik & Frank De Wolf ' it was a welcome change of pace to listen to 'Jesse Davis and Jock Mitchell' 🙂

Did I meet you Pete in Sydney? i moved out there in 2003 and lived in Waverton just off the pacific highway for a few years...

appy dayz

I wasnt into rave/dance music that much,but cos i was a young lad early 90’s i went to shelleys in stoke a couple of times! If memory serves it was a bit of a dump! In fact i may have seen “altern8” there? Cant be sure though!

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1 hour ago, Mal C said:

You know I love you brother, BUT! we have had this conversation before! laughing

Sat nights at Shelley's went on for a good while before the Amnesia lot got in 🙂 I'm just saying, Shelley's was down to Martin Redmond originally, he started it, an accolade he's never really received properly in my opinion. And we were all from Birmingham... The Manchester lot started coming after the night when Derek May played, that was Aug 1990, then one of the Mix Mag guys who was part of that Sat night started to push Sasha, the rest is history as they say...

just setting the record straight...  as I do feel quite strongly about the kind of forgotten history of this club, with a bit of passion of course  🙂

Mal

I acknowledge it wasn't quite as simple as that, Sasha played the eclipse in Coventry, for example, but he did throw in more beltram, bones and Frank de wolf into his sets. Lot of interest locally in Shelly's revivals at the moment.   

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1 hour ago, Geeselad said:

I acknowledge it wasn't quite as simple as that, Sasha played the eclipse in Coventry, for example, but he did throw in more beltram, bones and Frank de wolf into his sets. Lot of interest locally in Shelly's revivals at the moment.   

thats right, he was appearing at few places at the time, Id have to look over old flyers, but I think 91 was really the year his career stepped up a gear isn't it?  The stoke guys did a great job there as well, guys like Lee Fredericks, and Martin always said Shock C from Cov was the Bomb!

Its not like the soul scene is it, I'm not interested to go to revival dos.. but great to see loads on Mixcloud and other platforms on the club...

Might as well go for the triple, here is the one on the Hummingbird. Bit naughty as the image is from the Hac...

 

Edited by Mal C
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4 hours ago, Mal C said:

thats right, he was appearing at few places at the time, Id have to look over old flyers, but I think 91 was really the year his career stepped up a gear isn't it?  The stoke guys did a great job there as well, guys like Lee Fredericks, and Martin always said Shock C from Cov was the Bomb!

Its not like the soul scene is it, I'm not interested to go to revival dos.. but great to see loads on Mixcloud and other platforms on the club...

Might as well go for the triple, here is the one on the Hummingbird. Bit naughty as the image is from the Hac...

 

We followed him from mid 90, him and Steve Williams, who tbh, Sasha ripped off big-time. Both dj'ed in various venues in Blackpool, Saturdays. As you said it kicked off proper at Shelly's from late summer 90. By spring 91, it was all over imho.  

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Geoff Oakes, a big Wigan guy face, according to Dave shaw's book,was very influential for us on biddulph.  He went onto to start renaissance, in Mansfield and later all over the place. They alway asked where you were from at the hacienda, if you said Stoke, you were listening to f**king indie at the brick house. If you said biddulph, you flew in. Sunday's we'd see Sasha's blue Porsche, personal reg, RE1M1X, outside Geoff'ss house in town

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14 hours ago, Geeselad said:

Geoff Oakes, a big Wigan guy face, according to Dave shaw's book,was very influential for us on biddulph.  He went onto to start renaissance, in Mansfield and later all over the place. They alway asked where you were from at the hacienda, if you said Stoke, you were listening to f**king indie at the brick house. If you said biddulph, you flew in. Sunday's we'd see Sasha's blue Porsche, personal reg, RE1M1X, outside Geoff'ss house in town

used to go to renaissance, it was good, our lot knocked about with a load of guys from Leeds and Huddersfield at the time and would meet them there... happy days indeed...

I hate private number plates, its such a screaming waste of money, pure vanity imo, they should give the money to the homeless, someone who needs it, that said I was driving back from Chepstow last week and I saw a registration  MI GUY  on a small roadster, I did think that was cool...

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3 hours ago, Mal C said:

used to go to renaissance, it was good, our lot knocked about with a load of guys from Leeds and Huddersfield at the time and would meet them there... happy days indeed...

I hate private number plates, its such a screaming waste of money, pure vanity imo, they should give the money to the homeless, someone who needs it, that said I was driving back from Chepstow last week and I saw a registration  MI GUY  on a small roadster, I did think that was cool...

Huddersfield, was happening at the time, thats where 'hardtimes' started. In terms it f soulful house, the daddy of all nights.   

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