I had to rebuke myself yesterday. I saw the advert on TV for the Motown 50th Annivesary cd and I must admit I groaned. My first thought was how can they churn out the same old best of CD that comes out virtually every year around Christmas time when they have such a brilliant back catalogue that hardly ever gets played. On reflection, and having looked at the playlist, I realise I was wrong, (nearly) every song on there is a winner and is on there because it is so loved by a much wider audience than you'll find on this forum. The only 'fault' with these songs is being overplayed and over familiar simply because they are so good.

It did get me thinking though, is there such a thing as a bad Motown record, I know it's a slightly subjective question but there must be at least one song that has a concensus of nastiness.

Can I start the ball rolling with a very, very obvious one "I Just Called to Say I love You" by Stevie Wonder (all the more disappointing as he's such a genius), even by eighties Motown standards this wasn't good. It would be interesting to find some 'bad' sixties tunes though.

P.S. don't anybody even consider voting for Charlene's "I've never Been to Me", it is a great record and I challenge anybody not to sing along to it in the car.

P.P.S. apologies for the rather contentious topic title but I just thought it might get people to look.

Edited December 14, 200816 yr by Bicks

Just remembered another one that I always have to turn off when I hear it "Goodnight Irene" by The Originals.

I was thinking of that one and couldnt get the title kept comming up with come into the garden Maude

Edited December 15, 200816 yr by Mark S

Well I think Stevie Wonder is rubbish.

You say you don't know how I can say that. I say I don't know how you can't say that.

Motown's great though!

Ha yes 'touche'!... each to their own, wouldnt do for us all to like the same things... life would be dull!... He blew the roof off in Manchester... but I guess he was surrounded by FANS! ha. so 'superstition' doesnt do anything for ya then? x

I was thinking of that one and couldnt get the title kept comming up with come into the garden Maude

Alfred Lord Tennyson Come into the garden Maud for the great black bat night has flown, come into the garden Maud I am here at the gate all alone. That is without lookin it up.

Suz

x

Was about to defend the great man myself but you beat me to it... was quite shocked at the comments but each to their own i guess.... .................. and what about 'AS' (aka 'always') for a tune?... brilliant! 'if you really love me' (is it called that?!) LOVEDTHE BOY LOVE THE MAN! ... And I cannot imagine life without Tamla Motown.

If we are talking SOUL, and not Northern, then i have to agree Stevie is GENIUS (allbeit wivva bit of crap thrown in, but hey a payday's a payday)

Songs In The Key of Life is magical from start to finish.

Album version of Living For The City is mindblowin' (well it was then)

Secret Life of Plants is ,unfortunately,not one of his better works.

Tony

If we are talking SOUL, and not Northern, then i have to agree Stevie is GENIUS (allbeit wivva bit of crap thrown in, but hey a payday's a payday)

Tony

I disagree................

Angel Baby

Just A Little Misunderstanding

All I Do

Tears Of A Clown

Everybody Needs Somebody (I Need You)

My Love Is Your Love

Can You Love A Poor Boy

It's A Shame

.............just a few of the tunes that Mr Wonder had a hand in - think there is definitely a bit of "Northern" interest in these & that is without listing some of his own "Northern" recordings ie :-

Uptight

Nothings Too Good For My Baby

Castles In The Sand

Contract On Love

I Want My Baby Back

Please take a bow Mr Wonder because IMHO you are not too shabby at all.

PS - "Songs In The Key Of Life" - f there ever was a Desert Island Disc - that is it !!

I disagree................

Angel Baby

Just A Little Misunderstanding

All I Do

Tears Of A Clown

Everybody Needs Somebody (I Need You)

My Love Is Your Love

Can You Love A Poor Boy

It's A Shame

.............just a few of the tunes that Mr Wonder had a hand in - think there is definitely a bit of "Northern" interest in these & that is without listing some of his own "Northern" recordings ie :-

Uptight

Nothings Too Good For My Baby

Castles In The Sand

Contract On Love

I Want My Baby Back

Please take a bow Mr Wonder because IMHO you are not too shabby at all.

PS - "Songs In The Key Of Life" - f there ever was a Desert Island Disc - that is it !!

I must admit to finding myself a little confused.

You say you disagree,

err with what exactly??

Tony

I must admit to finding myself a little confused.

You say you disagree,

err with what exactly??

Tony

I disagreed with the following (your words) If we are talking SOUL, and not Northern, then i have to agree Stevie is GENIUS.

I was pointing out that Stevie Wonder does have a place within "Northern Soul" as you seemed to make out he didn't.

I disagreed with the following (your words) If we are talking SOUL, and not Northern, then i have to agree Stevie is GENIUS.

I was pointing out that Stevie Wonder does have a place within "Northern Soul" as you seemed to make out he didn't.

Ahh, I see perhaps I didn't express myself correctly.

My point was that some people tend to dismiss any work that falls outside of the Northen Spectrum.

And Stevies output crosses all boundaries and is (mostly) top notch.

ATB

Tony

I disagree................

Angel Baby

Just A Little Misunderstanding

All I Do

Tears Of A Clown

Everybody Needs Somebody (I Need You)

My Love Is Your Love

Can You Love A Poor Boy

It's A Shame

.............just a few of the tunes that Mr Wonder had a hand in - think there is definitely a bit of "Northern" interest in these & that is without listing some of his own "Northern" recordings ie :-

Uptight

Nothings Too Good For My Baby

Castles In The Sand

Contract On Love

I Want My Baby Back

Please take a bow Mr Wonder because IMHO you are not too shabby at all.

PS - "Songs In The Key Of Life" - f there ever was a Desert Island Disc - that is it !!

and the gorgeous 'Hey Love'....and the guilty pleasure of 'Light My Fire' One of my exes was one of Stevie Wonder's bodyguards during his UK tour in the 8Ts/9Ts...and he said what a wicked sense of humour Stevie had. Just thought I'd share

Ahh, I see perhaps I didn't express myself correctly.

My point was that some people tend to dismiss any work that falls outside of the Northen Spectrum.

And Stevies output crosses all boundaries and is (mostly) top notch.

ATB

Tony

Think we are batting on the same side Tony - my list of tunes illustrates to the "Stevie Wonder is rubbish" crew that he patently is not. Whilst contemplating that let us not forget the incredible handicap the guy has lived with all his life!!

Think we are batting on the same side Tony - my list of tunes illustrates to the "Stevie Wonder is rubbish" crew that he patently is not. Whilst contemplating that let us not forget the incredible handicap the guy has lived with all his life!!

Absolutely,

must be terrible being a Yank

ATB

Tony

But also their, (Motown's), biggest selling vinyl single as far as I remember!

Yeah, spot on, Berry Gordy was interested in one thing and one thing only "the mean green" and thats why him and the committee who sat in on sessions and gave the thumbs up or down will have given this a huge thumbs up (cos it had massive selling potential to the masses) and the thumbs down to what we think are gems like The Temptations "Angel Doll" and "Forever in my heart" cos ultra soulfull stuff was not potential million seller material.

Kev

thought cellarful of motown vol 3 was below par, judges daughter by the origanals must be crap motown,stevie wonder is up there with the best of them IMO.

Have to say I hate just about everything Stevie Wonder has ever done.

There's only 'Nothing's Too Good For My Baby' that I can just about stomach....

What?? Not even "Uptight"? - and "I Was Made To Love Her" is a brilliant record!

https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WJMPS4uCQdU

Written by Stevie Wonder

Performed by JJ Barnes

Recorded for Motown

'NUFF SAID!!!!

Alfred Lord Tennyson Come into the garden Maud for the great black bat night has flown, come into the garden Maud I am here at the gate all alone. That is without lookin it up.

Suz

x

According to our local dialect (via my Gran), a "blackbat" was slang for a large beetle.

(Just thought I'd mention it.... )

Further to the matter in hand, I know it's not a bona fide Motown recording, but what the hell possessed EMI to issue The Honest Men on UK Tamla Motown?? Talk about ******* dreadful!

Edited December 16, 200816 yr by mel brat

and the gorgeous 'Hey Love'....and the guilty pleasure of 'Light My Fire' One of my exes was one of Stevie Wonder's bodyguards during his UK tour in the 8Ts/9Ts...and he said what a wicked sense of humour Stevie had. Just thought I'd share

S W,s wicked sense of humour was there for all to see on the J Ross show a few weeks ago.

Stevie crap eh?

Yet another example of collectors showing that rarity is all that matters.

Uptight, I was made to Love Her, Contract on Love, Yester Me, All I do, Overjoyed, Don't Know Why I love You, Love a Go Go, SSDIY, Place in the Sun, NTGFM Baby and all the others,...these are crap?????

Great thread, that once again exposes people who want to show that Northern and Motown discovered since the mid 80s is better than its predecessors.

Absolutely,

must be terrible being a Yank

ATB

Tony

that made me laugh!...

Have to say I hate just about everything Stevie Wonder has ever done.

I agree to ya to some extent.. I like SW tunes done by other people.

He does awful versions of his own songs..

I only have one thing to say to people that say SW is a genius.. Ebony and Ivory

Love Motown, and Stevie Wonder, both have had such massive output that there's bound to be a few clangers in there.

Stevie wonder is a living legend.

I agree to ya to some extent.. I like SW tunes done by other people.

He does awful versions of his own songs..

I only have one thing to say to people that say SW is a genius.. Ebony and Ivory

Must be time for a pop at Marvin Gaye now, I mean " What's Going On".

What the f*cks that all about??????

Tony

S W,s wicked sense of humour was there for all to see on the J Ross show a few weeks ago.

Is he still on telly - I thought he got the boot.....don't stay up that late so didn't see it

The worst thing about Motown was whoever or whtever brought the Jackson 5 out of Indiana needs

stuffing

compared to the jackson 5

Bob Kayli was a hero

And Stevie has proved his woth inc Grammy awards

and Club a Go Go

imo

I agree to ya to some extent.. I like SW tunes done by other people.

He does awful versions of his own songs..

I only have one thing to say to people that say SW is a genius.. Ebony and Ivory

Now thats below the belt! and i think Ivory was to blame???

The worst thing about Motown was whoever or whtever brought the Jackson 5 out of Indiana needs

stuffing

compared to the jackson 5

Bob Kayli was a hero

And Stevie has proved his woth inc Grammy awards

and Club a Go Go

imo

Dont start on the Jackson 5!.... I cant cope... A.B.C..........LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thing is with Motown. It's been around for 50 years in one guise or another. From the early transitional sounds of The Satintones and Gordy's compositions that were cutting edge at the time, through to the Boyz To Men phenomena and beyond. It always seemed to find it's own little niche in the industry in whatever decade. I'd wager that pound for pound, the talent that emerged from West Grand Boulevard and later at MoWest, matches anything that any other company enjoyed and actually surpasses most if not all,and I include some legendary labels (people) in that statement. Okeh, George Leaner's labels, Mirwood, to name just three set ups that were fantastic but fell short of Motown's contribution to, not just black American music, but music in general.To dismiss SW is to dismiss one of the most innovative musicians of his generation whilst to do the same to the Jackson 5 is to ignore the contribution that they made to a company that put the whole world on a dance-floor over a couple of decades. Stevie fills stadiums still and MJ (ahem) doesn't but probably still would if not for his 'personal life' being so 'bizarre'. And not all the fans are 50 somethings looking to tap their feet to Uptight!

To put Motown and it's contribution to music, especially ours, in perspective is simple. Forget the label, forget the logo, forget the rose tinted glasses even. Just sit and contemplate the PEOPLE who were responsible for the music it produced. Many of them became real legends, not just with fans but with other world respected musicians. Gordy, Smokey, Levi, Stevie, Diana, Tops, Tempts, Supremes, Vandellas...etc etc. These front of house names became so famous that the average guy in the street knew which label they made rekkids on. How many other labels could claim the same? Lets try with these 5:

Everley Bothers?

Altman Brothers Band?

The Mamas and The Papas?

Dylan?

Roy Orbison?

Think the man in the street would know? I doubt it.

Motown - Leave it alone. It paid it's dues, a few howlers along the way? Sure, no argument there but out of a catalogue of that size I reckon it's entitled.

As for some of the songs/artists mentioned in this thread? Well, many ended up with the trappings of success and that was due to millions of people appreciating what they did enough to pay their bucks and buy the songs. Compared to the X Factor/Pop Idol/Reality TV shite foisted on a public so devoid of quality options as far as music is concerned, I'll take Holland Dozier Holland over Mark ronson 7 days a week, fifty two weeks a year.

And (said in best Forrest Gump accent), "that's 'bout all I have to say 'bout that".

Every label with a catalog this vast has a few things in there that should have never happened but it's inevitable because when things are going that well, more risks can be taken. Berry Gordy is a businessman, so naturally he wants a bigger piece of the pie and to get it you've got to diversify.

But it doesn't always go so well:

-The Ding Dongs -Gimmie Dat Ding LP - MOTOWN -FAILURE

-La Salles - La La La La La - VIP-FAILURE

-Bobby Breen - How Can We Tell Him-FAILURE

then the exception to the rule:

-Charlene---sorry can't stomach this one either. Big song on the radio when I was in 5th grade. PISSED me off when it came on!-MILLION SELLER, so pure shite to some of us...massive success for Gordy. Bet he's tremendously proud of that record. You won't ever hear him call that crap.

-Stevie Wonder-I Just Called...-HATE IT SO MUCH! But...I have to admit I really like "Lovelight In Flight"

Have to admit, I'm a little surprised at the Stevie bashing, but everyone's entitled to their own opinion and should have the freedom to speak it. For me, I can hear "Uptight" everyday at least once for the rest of my life, same with "Baby I Need Your Loving" by the Four Tops. But if you feel like you want to give Little Stevie another chance, give this one a try:

BE COOL BE CALM AND KEEP YOURSELF TOGETHER-DOWN TO EARTH LP

STOMPIN Northern Soul! Absolute killer!

Motown's quality cannot be denied and it's all down to a formula:

a. those exact musicians

b. the songwriters and those particular lyrics

c. the talented artists

A shrewd businessman with a quality product just can't be beat. Many other outfits have had parts of that equation, but Motown has all of those firmly in place, 100%. Maybe 90% on a bad day. A combination of those things can only happen once in a lifetime. It's so good that we love the pale imitations just as much, hence all the big anthems of NS.

I've been to Northern nights (and not just Hitsville) where, in the midst of super four figure rarities, on comes something like "Nowhere to Run". Did it clear the dancefloor? No way in hell. It was seamless. Like another poster said, if they weren't so easy to find, these records would be the most sought after soul 45s ever. "Reach Out I'll Be There" by the Four Tops would be one of the biggest NS anthems of all time. Frank Wilson would be just another one in the queue.

When that "best of" CD comes on the TV advert, it's the best of the best for the general public. I think for most of us on here, we moan and groan because we know that most of the World is missing out on things like "Suspicion", "A Thrill a Moment", Without the One You Love (Life is Not Worthwhile)". Those songs are so good, it's almost painful to see them get ignored.

But ask yourself folks, do you really want to hear them get hammered to death every place you turn?

-J.

No mention yet of the Classic by, I think this is the right name.

Irene"Granny"Reid.

Yep, Granny Clampett from The Beverly Hill Billys.

I've seen it, but never heard it, fank God.

One for the completists ??

Tony

Never ever liked Stevie Wonder mainly due to his post 60s work

Pin Point It Down - Fantastic 4 - now you're talkin

Richard

Pin Point It Down - Fantastic 4 - now you're talkin

Richard

Now you're talkin' for sure.Class double sider

Tony

Motown's quality cannot be denied and it's all down to a formula:

a. those exact musicians:-

M Terry

U Jones

J Jamerson

E Van Dyke

J Messina

P Allen

W Benjamin

J Ashford

J Hunter

B Babbit

J Griffith

E Willis

B Brown

Nuff said!

Must be time for a pop at Marvin Gaye now, I mean " What's Going On".

What the f*cks that all about??????

Tony

eh!!

How the fck can you compare What's going on with Ebony and Ivory.. Now the Onion song.. Now ya talking. Maybe if Stevie wore Womens clothes too i might like him more.

motown is in fact bolloxs...

motown is in fact bolloxs...

Owch!... get your hard hats on, I smell a riot!

Owch!... get your hard hats on, I smell a riot!

LOL .... TRUE THOUGH!

eh!!

How the fck can you compare What's going on with Ebony and Ivory.. Now the Onion song.. Now ya talking. Maybe if Stevie wore Womens clothes too i might like him more.

Ahem,

HOOK

LINE

SINKER

ROD

REEL

BOAT!!!

Tony

Ahem,

HOOK

LINE

SINKER

ROD

REEL

BOAT!!!

Tony

Erm more like Bleak bashing on the Thames than Shark fishing off Tobago

motown is in fact bolloxs...

Wow!

I presume you are a soul/Northern Soul fan?

motown is in fact bolloxs...

I like a well constructed & thought provoking comment like that about probably the most influential black music record label in the world ............................. care to expand your thoughts & reasons why you feel that way?

Can't believe I've just read that.

I hope you are joking

motown is in fact bolloxs...

Charlene is the bad ones for me and i am sure i had found some weird motown stuff from 70's and 80's by acts i hadn't know.

miami disco machine or something.

but there comes a time when i can't believe the words Stevie Wonder = Genius. the best male singer at Motown apart from Marvin Gaye and Edwin Starr, there are others but them 3 are my fav and the best if you think of just singers from bands then Levi Stubbs wins

Scratchin' by the Magic Disco Machine. Massive b-boy break sample, been getting regular spins on the hip hop scene since its birth in the 70s.

....but enough about that. It's "All About the Soul" section of the forum!

-J.

Firstly:

What a fantastic question! - I so chuckled.

Secondly:

Berry Gordy was the Bill Gates of his time.

And without either of them lads we'd have f*** all to talk about right haere, right now - and to ad to that, nowt to talk about it upon.

Ha ha.

Quo Vadis!

Can't believe I've just read that.

I hope you are joking

Scratchin' by the Magic Disco Machine. Massive b-boy break sample, been getting regular spins on the hip hop scene since its birth in the 70s.

....but enough about that. It's "All About the Soul" section of the forum!

-J.

Ahh, but " Control Tower" was a massive Mecca/Ritz tune

Tony