Are you guys and gals fed up with the media telling you that James Brown is the godfather of soul?, what do you think, personaly psuedos know shit all about soul music so they say the first thing that comes into their thick heads, James had some nice soulful tunes in the early days and a couple in the 70s but I would draw the line between funk and mainstream soul,

Watching his 'performance' on Jonathon Ross the other night, I think you would be paying these days only to be in the same room as him.

It's a definition of soul question I suppose?

"NO"

No

NIMO

QoF

xx

No.....and he has silly hair.

Funk maybe, but deffo not soul.

No.....and he has silly hair.

link

Very silly hair!!!!

QoF

xx

No.....and he has silly hair.

link

it's not hair, it's a pompadour!

definitely EN-OH

No.

Whilst we're on an anti JB vibe, he's a wife beater and knocked Tammi Tyrell about when he was seeing her. :angry:

Funk maybe, but deffo not soul.

link

When no whould have been enough,what are you a politition....

When no whould have been enough,what are you a politition....

link

I refer the honourable gentleman to the statement I gave earlier

No - bit of a clown - like the Harlem Globetrotter of Soul music

Whilst we're on an anti JB vibe, he's a wife beater and knocked Tammi Tyrell about when he was seeing her. :angry:

link

Where did you hear that? Wasn't it supposed to have been david Ruffin who did that?

It's just lazy journalism. I personally always refer to JB as the 'The Minister of New New Super Heavy Funk' Much more catchy.

Is he fcuk

Whilst we're on an anti JB vibe, he's a wife beater and knocked Tammi Tyrell about when he was seeing her. :angry:

link

Think you're getting mixed up with David Ruffin and its Tammi Terrell thank you very much

Think you're getting mixed up with David Ruffin and its Tammi Terrell thank you very much

link

She did see JB for a while. Think he's right.

Think you're getting mixed up with David Ruffin and its Tammi Terrell thank you very much

link

James used to preach abstanance,but do the opposit big fraud if you ask me!

She did see JB for a while. Think he's right.

link

She did see them both but it was Ruffin who was alleged to have knocked her about.

No - but I love most of his pre 75 output.

Fu**ing brilliant.

James used to preach abstanance,but do the opposit big fraud if you ask me!

link

Defo one of the biggest hypocrits of all time, preach love peace and understanding then go out beat the wife up and shoot at police not forgetting a line up or ten

Defo one of the biggest hypocrits of all time, preach love peace and understanding then go out beat the wife up and shoot at police not forgetting a line up or ten

link

That's bullshit - he lived the life of a thousand Soulmen - When you're sat in another culture and another circumstance its easy to pass judgment. Whats you're background?

I'm not saying these things are right, I'm saying circumstance shapes us.

Simon

That's bullshit - he lived the life of a thousand Soulmen  - When you're sat in another culture and another circumstance its easy to pass judgment. Whats you're background?

I'm not saying these things are right, I'm saying circumstance shapes us.

Simon

link

Whats bullshit? :angry: any person that has Brown's stature in America surely can't be allowed to violate everything he has preached, especially with drugs and guns, he's preached in thousands of schools all over the States about the missuse of these things and telling people to give it up then goes out and does the exact opposite of what he's supposed to be all about, now thats bullshit!

Whats bullshit? :angry: any person that has Brown's stature in America surely can't be allowed to violate everything he has preached, especially with drugs and guns, he's preached in thousands of schools all over the States about the missuse of these things and telling people to give it up then goes out and does the exact opposite of what he's supposed to be all about, now thats bullshit!

link

That sums up over 50% of anyone with any stature in America - he's no different - that's why saying he's "Defo one of the biggest hypocrites of all time" is indeed Bullshit. How about BUSH? Or for that matter any of Europe's Royalty or the Catholic church? it's a bullshit statement that's why I said Bullshit.

Are you guys and gals fed up with the media telling you that James Brown is the godfather of soul?, what do you think, personaly psuedos know shit all about soul music so they say the first thing that comes into their thick heads, James had some nice soulful tunes in the early days and a couple in the 70s but I would draw the line between funk and mainstream soul,

link

Is he f***,........whats his hair all about!

Where did you hear that?  Wasn't it supposed to have been david Ruffin who did that?

link

so did I!

That sums up over 50% of anyone  with any stature in America - he's no different - that's why saying he's "Defo one of the biggest hypocrites of all time" is indeed Bullshit.  How about BUSH? Or for that matter any of Europe's Royalty or the Catholic church? it's a bullshit statement that's why I said Bullshit.

link

Lets not get into a political debate for gawds sake, the thread WAS about his music so lets just agree with our own conclusions

Edited July 6, 200520 yr by BIGSOULMAN

Lets not get into a political debate for gawds sake, the thread WAS about his music so lets just agree with our own conclusions

link

Agree

I am surprised about the level of ignorance and disrespect towards James Brown's legacy on this site. While a title like "Godfather of Soul" may sound silly, his impact on american black music culture and especially soul music is incredibly huge. To limit his influence to the funk movement is cutting his wings off ... after all, he was "Soulbrother No. 1" seven or eight years before he was labeled "Godfather of Soul". You may not like his music, his behaviour towards women, his hair .. but that doesn't make his musical impact less valid. By reading the messages on this site, sometimes I believe that many of you have a musical taste that is way too eclectic for Soul music in it's original understanding. If something doesn't fit the "northern" category, it doesn't fit at all. But each and every one who has lived soul culture where it was born will agree with me that James Brown is indeed the Godfather of Soul (although again, the titel sounds funny).

Does he have a beautiful voice? No. But he doesn't have to.

Does he have soul? What a question. His singing used to be more soulful than that of many of the so-called "northern soul" artists (who I often find very pop-ish and shallow) combined. James Brown is raw, natural, gutbucket soul music.

I really feel that some of you dis the man because he is popular and because within the past two decades, sort of became a copy of himself. But he is still around, playing 100 shows a year at 74 years. He is James Brown after all. And soul music wouldn't be the same without him.

Two of my all time favs are :-

Prisoner of Love

THis Guy This Girls in love (with Lyn Collins)

So, So Soulful

Simon

I am surprised about the level of ignorance and disrespect towards James Brown's legacy on this site. While a title like "Godfather of Soul" may sound silly, his impact on american black music culture and especially soul music is incredibly huge. To limit his influence to the funk movement is cutting his wings off ... after all, he was "Soulbrother No. 1" seven or eight years before he was labeled "Godfather of Soul".  You may not like his music, his behaviour towards women, his hair .. but that doesn't make his musical impact less valid. By reading the messages on this site, sometimes I believe that many of you have a musical taste that is way too eclectic for Soul music in it's original understanding. If something doesn't fit the "northern" category, it doesn't fit at all. But each and every one who has lived soul culture where it was born will agree with me that James Brown is indeed the Godfather of Soul (although again, the titel sounds funny).

Does he have a beautiful voice? No. But he doesn't have to.

Does he have soul? What a question. His singing used to be more soulful than that of many of the so-called "northern soul" artists (who I often find very pop-ish and shallow) combined. James Brown is raw, natural, gutbucket soul music.

I really feel that some of you dis the man because he is popular and because within the past two decades, sort of became a copy of himself. But he is still around, playing 100 shows a year at 74 years. He is James Brown after all. And soul music wouldn't be the same without him.

link

I do agree with what you say mate and I really do like him, the thread did run off the rails a bit but the original point I was making is that there is a line between funk and soul, i'm not a great lover of funk but Brown's output is very good, but to call him the godfather does'nt gel with me, but then again....who is?, my fave tracks from JB are-

Night Train

Out Of Sight

I Got you

Papa's Got A Brand New Bag

Its A Mans Mans World

Soul Power

People Wake Up And Live

I am surprised about the level of ignorance and disrespect towards James Brown's legacy on this site. .....

link

its a place for discussion, where people can put up their views on all sorts

thats all

I dunno why people are laughing at his hair either - i've always wanted my hair to go like that.

Hammy

I dunno why people are laughing at his hair either - i've always wanted my hair to go like that. 

Hammy

link

You get your hair like that boyo and you'll not catch me within 10 miles of the alldayer!

You get your hair like that boyo and you'll not catch me within 10 miles of the alldayer!      

link

I don't know, it would make me more likely to go

I am surprised about the level of ignorance and disrespect towards James Brown's legacy on this site. While a title like "Godfather of Soul" may sound silly, his impact on american black music culture and especially soul music is incredibly huge. To limit his influence to the funk movement is cutting his wings off ... after all, he was "Soulbrother No. 1" seven or eight years before he was labeled "Godfather of Soul".  You may not like his music, his behaviour towards women, his hair .. but that doesn't make his musical impact less valid. By reading the messages on this site, sometimes I believe that many of you have a musical taste that is way too eclectic for Soul music in it's original understanding. If something doesn't fit the "northern" category, it doesn't fit at all. But each and every one who has lived soul culture where it was born will agree with me that James Brown is indeed the Godfather of Soul (although again, the titel sounds funny).

Does he have a beautiful voice? No. But he doesn't have to.

Does he have soul? What a question. His singing used to be more soulful than that of many of the so-called "northern soul" artists (who I often find very pop-ish and shallow) combined. James Brown is raw, natural, gutbucket soul music.

I really feel that some of you dis the man because he is popular and because within the past two decades, sort of became a copy of himself. But he is still around, playing 100 shows a year at 74 years. He is James Brown after all. And soul music wouldn't be the same without him.

link

where do you get your serious pills, mate?

i could do with half a dozen, i've been far too happy lately.

where do you get your serious pills, mate?

i could do with half a dozen, i've been far too happy lately.

link

I have a great sense of humour, bro. But when I read the responsed on this thread on a soul site, I start to loose it. Why does a musical discussion have to go into someone's hairdo and psychic issues? And why do people have to categorize music so much? I believe when someone is actually quite serious by saying that JB is not a soul singer buy "northern soul"-standards, then it's ridiculous. And on this very thread, this is not an exceptional opinion, but the idea that the majority of posters have on James Brown. I find this quite disturbing on a site called "soul source" ...

It's ok to not like his voice, hair, personal matters and even music .. but to claim that he doesn't deserve the title "Godfather of Soul" (that was given to him not by the media, but by DJs).. if you claim that his impact on soul music is not siginficant enough for the praise he got, then you seriously need to check your own musical credentials.

It's not the media that made James Brown "Soulbrother No 1" .. it`s his people. No black artist in the 60s has touched the African American culture as he did ... his impact on soul music was simply tremendous ...

its a place for discussion, where people can put up their views on all sorts

thats all

link

Oh, that's okay .. and so do I But seriously, it's about James Brown's music and not about his hair ...

I do agree with what you say mate and I really do like him, the thread did run off the rails a bit but the original point I was making is that there is a line between funk and soul, i'm not a great lover of funk but Brown's output is very good, but to call him the godfather does'nt gel with me, but then again....who is?, my fave tracks from JB are-

Night Train

Out Of Sight

I Got you

Papa's Got A Brand New Bag

Its A Mans Mans World

Soul Power

People Wake Up And Live

link

See, this is where we disagree, bro ... it's all Soul. Funk is just a different way to deliver it. A more dynamic way. But in James Brown's music, Soul and Funk still go hand in hand ... they are inseperable .. and I don't know any soul singer or musician who would make that difference like y'all do ...

Oh, that's okay .. and so do I  But seriously, it's about James Brown's music and not about his hair ...

link

edited

See, this is where we disagree, bro ... it's all Soul. Funk is just a different way to deliver it.

link

and so is, say, heavy metal, presumably?

like most, though not all, acts who achieve worldwide recognition in any field, JB has been elevated by the media and the soundbite-ists to a level way beyond what he really merits.

some good stuff but all very samey to my ears.

don't think anyone doubts he's soulful, just disputing whether he is the 'godfather' of soul. he's the godfather of crystal-meth induced, firearm-waving, police-chasing auto-felonies, that's for sure (and also of BBC 5 Live Live8 soundbites).

it's a redundant argument, anyway - lots of great singers, all have their off days and most produce some awesome music.

but as it goes i'd put (plucking from the air) garland green above james brown.

JB pretty much got me into soul music when I was a teen. I heard Live At The Apollo Vol 2 and it turned my world upside down.

The Godfather? I dunno. It's just a silly made up marketing name. The guy has soul by the bucket though.

and so is, say, heavy metal, presumably?

like most, though not all, acts who achieve worldwide recognition in any field, JB has been elevated by the media and the soundbite-ists to a level way beyond what he really merits.

some good stuff but all very samey to my ears.

don't think anyone doubts he's soulful, just disputing whether he is the 'godfather' of soul. he's the godfather of crystal-meth induced, firearm-waving, police-chasing auto-felonies, that's for sure (and also of BBC 5 Live Live8 soundbites).

it's a redundant argument, anyway - lots of great singers, all have their off days and most produce some awesome music.

but as it goes i'd put (plucking from the air) garland green above james brown.

link

Your heavy-metal analogy doesn't quite work because it stands for a completely different cultural background. Soul culture is one specific culture, and Funk is a natural element of it. And I am talking about the soul culture in it's original meaning ... the African-American culture, not some Europeans (no offense, I'm European myself) who think that soul culture is reduced to northern soul, rare 45s, mod-hairstyles and riding vintage scooters (playing with stereotypes now, but you get the idea).

Sure, James Brown has lived a turbulant life, and he is no saint by far .. but which soul singer is? Otis wasn't, Marvin wasn`t, and I'm sure that Garland Green wasn't either -- you just didn't hear about it because they didn't get the media attention James Brown got. So his private life and his troubles have nothing to do with his label as the Godfather of Soul. At least it shouldn't, but you obviously make it an issue here. Sam Cooke was a pimp, the Isley's had regular shoot-outs with rivals, George McCrae was a bigtime wife-beater and coke-addict... tell me who was clean pure?

And I would agree, James Brown is not the BEST soul singer .. but he is the one with the most impact. A whole modern musical soul culture has been inspired and evben shaped by him .. and he even had a significant poolitical impact upon his culture which still can be felt today. He's everywhere in modern sould culture, while most of the other one-hit or no-hit wonders have faded into obscurity, which is why James Brown and nobody else is the Godfather of Soul.

Edited July 6, 200520 yr by Soulpower

The Godfather?  I dunno.  It's just a silly made up marketing name.  The guy has soul by the bucket though.

link

That sums it up. Watch some James Brown live footage from the 1960s ... he kicked everybody's ass back then. People were frightended because his act was so tight and powerful.

It's a definition of soul question I suppose?

It's a definition of soul question I suppose?

link

Its yet another UK made question though, most Americans would be mystified by our genrefying (is that a word? it is now!) and analysing sub cultures of black music.

I assumed Soul Power was American because he made some great points (must add some smilies or Dan will pick on me as this does read a bit serious ) I personally dont listen to much James Brown personally but his influence on soul music as an evolving culture (in America now, not Wigan or darkest Yorkshire etc. ) is huge, how he handled his business etc.

I think this is a good example of how we into Northern sometimes forget about the wider world of soul, and Mr Brown is a major player in that,

Not sure I totally agree with Dayos point however about the title being totally media driven, from what I read Mr Brown was (and still is by recent evidence) very keen on being known as the greatest and marketing himself as such, and also wasn't slow at sacking people who didn't go along.

Musically his finest moment for me was Georgia On My Mind where he turns it into a magical example of deep soul at its most tortured, again not too relevant to Northern but if your tastes are wider its worth a listen.

Now onto the who invented funk question..... the UK media discuss!

Cheers

Jock

A UK made question maybe Jocko, but only beacause some of the answers on here have made it that.

And I would agree, James Brown is not the BEST soul singer ..  but he is the one with the most impact. A whole modern musical soul culture has been inspired and evben shaped by him .. and he even had a significant poolitical impact upon his culture which still can be felt today. He's everywhere in modern sould culture, while most of the other one-hit or no-hit wonders have faded into obscurity, which is why James Brown and nobody else is the Godfather of Soul.

link

Well its between him & M Jackson then the way you put it?,what a choise

Your heavy-metal analogy doesn't quite work because it stands for a completely different cultural background. Soul culture is one specific culture, and Funk is a natural element of it.

the heavy metal thing was a joke, obviously. the point i was making was you can't call someone the godfather of soul (a ridiculous term anyway, as lots of people have pointed out) if his major contribution is to funk.

godfather of funk, maybe, i wouldn't have a clue.

gospel, funk, soul, jazz, blues...all similar culturally maybe (though that's arguable too) but not at all musically.

And I am talking about the soul culture in it's original meaning ... the African-American culture, not some Europeans (no offense, I'm European myself) who think that soul culture is reduced to northern soul, rare 45s, mod-hairstyles and riding vintage scooters (playing with stereotypes now, but you get the idea).

i don't think many, if any, people on here would disagree with you or, indeed, think that way in the first place.

Sure, James Brown has lived a turbulant life, and he is no saint by far .. but which soul singer is? Otis wasn't, Marvin wasn`t, and I'm sure that Garland Green wasn't either -- you just didn't hear about it because they didn't get the media attention James Brown got. So his private life and his troubles have nothing to do with his label as the Godfather of Soul. At least it shouldn't, but you obviously make it an issue here. Sam Cooke was a pimp, the Isley's had regular shoot-outs with rivals, George McCrae was a bigtime wife-beater and coke-addict... tell me who was clean pure?

i don't personally think his private life has anything to do with his status as a soul artist anyway - my crystal-meth remark was just a throwaway line...but i'll come back to that in a minute!

And I would agree, James Brown is not the BEST soul singer ..  but he is the one with the most impact. A whole modern musical soul culture has been inspired and evben shaped by him .. and he even had a significant poolitical impact upon his culture which still can be felt today. He's everywhere in modern sould culture,

what's your evidence for this? if by 'impact' you mean mentions in the press, maybe. otherwise, not sure i agree. if you mean 'impact' as in impact on the history of soul music, who inspired JB, for a start? what about Sam Cooke, say, or Otis Redding? they were pretty influential, no? what about Berry Gordy? one might think a lot of Motown is crossover (racially-speaking) fluff but Gordy and the Motown sound have been much more influential through the years than James Brown IMO. Could go on in this vein for quite some time.

while most of the other one-hit or no-hit wonders have faded into obscurity, which is why James Brown and nobody else is the Godfather of Soul.

you see, this is where you're wrong. the reason JB hasn't faded into obscurity is largely because of three things (IMO).

1) an amazing stage act that got him talked about a lot (but van halen had one of those).

2) one record - sex machine. this is the only record 99% of the population know JB recorded.

3) his colourful off-piste lifestyle. if he wasn't always shooting at sheriff's deputies, driving the wrong way down the freeway at 90mph while getting blowjobs from strippers and mainlining baby-bio in crack dens the papers would leave him alone.

as for the obscurity line per se, don't make the mistake of thinking that simply because someone was a one-hit (or even no-hit) wonder, they were talentless or irrelevant. lots of factors go to make a media and sales profile and, quite often, quality is not among them.

anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree...IMO JB isn't the godfather of anything other than his godchildren - there is no single godfather of soul!

thanks for the pills, by the way!

link

Edited July 7, 200520 yr by Dan