Ol¡,

Just been sorting out some wheat & chaff and amongst my reissue/boot box rediscovered this tune.

Detroit Prophets - Suspicion pressed on Soul Beat. Feck me, I forgot how good it was!

I'm presuming it might be the same situation as the Tempests - Some Day and Melba Moore - Magic Touch i.e. previously unreleased.

But I can't find any info on the band or the tune so if any Soul Sage out there can fill me in on anything then muchas gracias!

BTW, do the Soul Police allow the playing out of such previously unreleased gems? Maybe an issue for another thread if not already done to death.

Much LOve...

It's actually by The Originals and is an unreleased Motown demo. Or was...it's now been out on a few cd's only I don't think they used the same take which is on that single and that is the very very best version. I think on the original acetate it's title is different, something totally irrelevant to whats being sung.

It was also speeded-up somewhat to suit the dance floor. Tempests wasn't 'previously unreleased' BTW, just available on an LP only.

It's actually by The Originals and is an unreleased Motown demo.  Or was...it's now been out on a few cd's only I don't think they used the same take which is on that single and that is the very very best version.  I think on the original acetate it's title is different, something totally irrelevant to whats being sung ; baby, have mercy on me atb, rob

Edited September 7, 200915 yr by east rob

Gentlemen

Thank you for the info it's filled in the gaps for sure.

Agree with you Pete, this is a mighty fine piece of work the Soul Beat people breathed life into!

Cheers again.

gary field used to have the original acetate in the mid 90's, cant remember if it was 10 or 12 inch, title was baby have mercy on me, it was a plain white label with typed & handwritten credits, if i remember rightly, he sold it to richard searling

Gentlemen

Thank you for the info it's filled in the gaps for sure.

Agree with you Pete, this is a mighty fine piece of work the Soul Beat people breathed life into!

Cheers again.

A bit much to claim that the "Soul Beat people... breathed life into" it: a shameless bootleg, nothing more nothing less. Agreed that this is the best cut of this around though. I believe the Motown archives show that eleven different versions or mixes exist and that it was knocked back at up to six quality control meetings(!)

Definitely, without a doubt the 'real' title has to be 'Suspicion' surely! I always thought that the 'Baby Have Mercy On Me' titled on the original acetate must have been a mistake??

There was another 'boot' doing the rounds on a look-a-like Motown 'Soul' label a few years ago, this has the instrumental on the flip (well, vocals removed!) which stops quite suddenly!

gary field used to have the original acetate in the mid 90's, cant remember if it was 10 or 12 inch, title was baby have mercy on me, it was a plain white label with typed & handwritten credits, if i remember rightly, he sold it to richard searling

Maybe he sold it BACK.

Dave

gary field used to have the original acetate in the mid 90's, cant remember if it was 10 or 12 inch, title was baby have mercy on me, it was a plain white label with typed & handwritten credits, if i remember rightly, he sold it to richard searling

I think if Gary sold it in the 90s, 95% chance he sold it to Richard.

Are you still in touch with Gary? not seen him for about 5 or 6 years.

theres a white label Baby have mercy knocking about as well...

think there are a few...

one on the BOOT label as well...

Maybe he sold it BACK.

Dave

what do you mean

I think if Gary sold it in the 90s, 95% chance he sold it to Richard.

Are you still in touch with Gary? not seen him for about 5 or 6 years.

hi dave, hav'nt seen gary for over a year now,like i said, i'm pretty sure he sold it to richard, he got it from john manship, it was at my house for a couple of months, i can picture the label but, i cant for the life of me remember if it was a 10 or 12 inch

A bit much to claim that the "Soul Beat people... breathed life into" it: a shameless bootleg, nothing more nothing less. Agreed that this is the best cut of this around though. I believe the Motown archives show that eleven different versions or mixes exist and that it was knocked back at up to six quality control meetings(!)

First thanks for the extra info on the versions and knockbacks that really is amazing info!

I agree with the bootlegging issue to a point, but when a track as good as this has been 'knocked back' so many times as you say, isn't it a blesing to Joe Bloggs to be able to get hold of the tune?

It may be imperfect, it may be profiteering by somebody or other, but the music deserves an audience. The artists themselves deserve the royalties of course but this is a very familiar story throughout the history of the soul scene.

How many of us own a copy of Del Larks - Job Opening, Eddie Parker - I'm Gone, Mel Britt etc etc that maybe not legit and how many of us have been privileged to hear such rare tracks over the years as a result. Not perfect but what is...

Cheers.

what do you mean

The one you're talking about is an RCA acetate isn't it. It was cut at RCA for RS when Richard worked there.

Dave

Edited September 7, 200915 yr by DaveNPete

The one you're talking about is an RCA acetate isn't it. It was cut at RCA for him when Richard worked there.

Dave

no, the one i'm talking about is the genuine white label one that gary got from john manship

First thanks for the extra info on the versions and knockbacks that really is amazing info!

I agree with the bootlegging issue to a point, but when a track as good as this has been 'knocked back' so many times as you say, isn't it a blesing to Joe Bloggs to be able to get hold of the tune?

It may be imperfect, it may be profiteering by somebody or other, but the music deserves an audience. The artists themselves deserve the royalties of course but this is a very familiar story throughout the history of the soul scene.

How many of us own a copy of Del Larks - Job Opening, Eddie Parker - I'm Gone, Mel Britt etc etc that maybe not legit and how many of us have been privileged to hear such rare tracks over the years as a result. Not perfect but what is...

Cheers.

I appreciate what you're saying up to a point, and I've no wish to turn this into a thread about the merits (or otherwise) of bootlegging, but I'll just say that keeping exclusive tracks exactly that (exclusive) is what kept people travelling to venues to hear them. I wonder if the widespread availability of soundfiles of rarer tracks these days isn't contributing to a degree of lethargy in actually going out and supporting venues. Look at it from a deejaying point of view or from the point of view of those who help turn up new sounds, be they rare 45s or unreleased masters. Is it any wonder that Motown shied away from trawling their vaults for decades when the cream discoveries such as this had already sold in significant quantities on unofficial and underhand releases? It would be lovely to think that Motown could put something together which was a well researched and beautifully presented collection of unreleased Northern sounds from various artists rather than just the single artist box-sets (which are admittedly fantastic) or the rather shoddy Various Artists offerings they've treated us to so far.

I appreciate what you're saying up to a point, and I've no wish to turn this into a thread about the merits (or otherwise) of bootlegging, but I'll just say that keeping exclusive tracks exactly that (exclusive) is what kept people travelling to venues to hear them. I wonder if the widespread availability of soundfiles of rarer tracks these days isn't contributing to a degree of lethargy in actually going out and supporting venues. Look at it from a deejaying point of view or from the point of view of those who help turn up new sounds, be they rare 45s or unreleased masters. Is it any wonder that Motown shied away from trawling their vaults for decades when the cream discoveries such as this had already sold in significant quantities on unofficial and underhand releases? It would be lovely to think that Motown could put something together which was a well researched and beautifully presented collection of unreleased Northern sounds from various artists rather than just the single artist box-sets (which are admittedly fantastic) or the rather shoddy Various Artists offerings they've treated us to so far.

without wanting to open a can of worms about bootlegging, this track was originally played by richard searling off of a acetate which he had cut from stolen motown master tapes

without wanting to open a can of worms about bootlegging, this track was originally played by richard searling off of a acetate which he had cut from stolen motown master tapes

I'm sure Rod Shard can shed more light on this but I wonder if Dave Withers didn't actually play this before Searling.

without wanting to open a can of worms about bootlegging, this track was originally played by richard searling off of a acetate which he had cut from stolen motown master tapes

And having garotted two security guards and an innocent passer-by he made good his escape.

ROD

And having garotted two security guards and an innocent passer-by he made good his escape.

ROD

a copy of this spent some time in a pile of records titled "borrowed do not sell or swap" in the house of cod, however wherabouts now unknown, it may be in the hands of the same person who has got the vocal version of are you ready for this by the brothers, i can see it now, what else has he got

The answer to your question is the Originals were the only group to record Suspicion.Motowns acetate

number was CCMN-0979-NHDD Motowns notes show that another proposed title, could be, Baby have

have mercy on me.Dave Withers obtained the tape from a prominent figure within Motown.At this time

nobody could ascertain who the artists were on the tape suspicion was thought to be by the Monitors,also there are acetates around with the Detroit Prophets as the artists,you would need to

ask Dave Withers for more info on this subject

So 'Baby Have Mercy On Me' could actually be a completely different song anyhoo! That makes more sense to me.

I did hear ages ago that 'Suspicion' is actually by The Monitors but listening to the falsetto it sounds more likely to be the Originals.

The answer to your question is the Originals were the only group to record Suspicion.Motowns acetate

number was CCMN-0979-NHDD Motowns notes show that another proposed title, could be, Baby have

have mercy on me.Dave Withers obtained the tape from a prominent figure within Motown.At this time

nobody could ascertain who the artists were on the tape suspicion was thought to be by the Monitors,also there are acetates around with the Detroit Prophets as the artists,you would need to

ask Dave Withers for more info on this subject

why not just post the link to the topic where Rod has corrected you once already and posted the correct information (the link George has posted on your behalf I guess). You got all those facts from the scan that Andy Rix posted I guess, the scan of the disc that says it was the Originals. There are no original studio discs of this by the Detroit Prophets, just bootlegs of the Originals acetate.

I just noticed Tatty's post.

The person has obviously not listened to what I said and completely ignored my input, instead continuing to make the same mistake over and over again.

From this I deduce it must be the wife.

ROD

I just noticed Tatty's post.

The person has obviously not listened to what I said and completely ignored my input, instead continuing to make the same mistake over and over again.

From this I deduce it must be the wife.

ROD

:lol:

why not just post the link to the topic where Rod has corrected you once already and posted the correct information (the link George has posted on your behalf I guess). You got all those facts from the scan that Andy Rix posted I guess, the scan of the disc that says it was the Originals. There are no original studio discs of this by the Detroit Prophets, just bootlegs of the Originals acetate.

That acetate is NOT the acetate that Tom DePierro and I taped as a sample for review for inclusion in 'From The Vaults". Andy's may have been the original source of the other played version. Ours was a simple Jobete Music Co. publishing reference disc, and had a creamy white (off-clour-slightly yellowed from aging), which had only "Jobete Music Co." hand typed with a black taped typewriter, and "Suspicion" hand typed in the same font, in red (bottom half of the same ribbon (that had black on top)). There was no other print nor anything else on the label. "Our version" is the one that first went to Rod, and through him, to Dave Withers. Clearly, within a year, or two, the other vaulted version (from Andy's acetate or a tape recording from the vaulted master tape of the other version, escaped Motown, and came to England. Some years later, I saw the acetate we had, auctioned off on E-Bay.