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Sam Fletcher

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  • Chris L
    Chris L

    Finally got to track down Gilbert Govaerts a kind of Belgian Popcorn cross between Richard Searling & Ian L Anyway he said the record has been authorised by SABAM but reckons no roy

  • Chris L
    Chris L

    Dat is een assumptie, geen bewijs voor of tegen !

  • Chris L
    Chris L

    Sam Fletcher was originally a "Belgian Popcorn" discovery,played by Gilbert Govaert in the very early 70s. It is a Belgian release, the text is in Dutch(Flemish) it would take me longer t

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Is this genuine? :g:

https://www.ebay.co.u...039940087053754

Doesn't look right........ :unsure: Perhaps the clue is in the wording "original Belgium 7" single?

Sam Fletcher was originally a "Belgian Popcorn" discovery,played by Gilbert Govaert in the very early 70s. It is a Belgian release, the text is in Dutch(Flemish) it would take me longer than the 6 hours to find out it's authenticty, so someone's going to get a bargain or a re-release !! :huh:

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Thanks Chris. Yeah, always knew it was big in Belgium well before its day at Stafford (covered up as George Kirby I recall?). Bootleg then?

Thanks Chris. Yeah, always knew it was big in Belgium well before its day at Stafford (covered up as George Kirby I recall?). Bootleg then?

Pete Lawsons George Kirby C/U,looks like a boot to me

Thanks Chris. Yeah, always knew it was big in Belgium well before its day at Stafford (covered up as George Kirby I recall?). Bootleg then?

Well certainly we Brits would call it a re-issue, probably from the 70s Gilbert now plays a look-a-like and keeps his original tucked away. Belgium uses a loophole in the law to issue records and CDs that otherwise couldn't released (as does Portugal). It's certainly not legit like my Belgian Epic Major Lance or Olivier Bille's Belgian Immediate PP Arnold more like that Spanish Chubby Checker.....................aah well.............

Edited by Chris L

Belgium uses a loophole in the law to issue records and CDs that otherwise couldn't released (as does Portugal). It's certainly not legit like my Belgian Epic Major Lance or Olivier Bille's Belgian Immediate PP Arnold more like that Spanish Chubby Checker.....................aah well.............

Do you know more about that loophole? I know the guy/guys behind Marginal used it to issue 100s of bootleg CDs. Might be just urban myth but was told that the bootleggers were safe as long as they sold their "products" only in Belgium but one bloke got busted as he sold his CDs all over the world. Any truth behind that?

BTW, are you saying spanish Chubby Checker is not legit?

Do you know more about that loophole? I know the guy/guys behind Marginal used it to issue 100s of bootleg CDs. Might be just urban myth but was told that the bootleggers were safe as long as they sold their "products" only in Belgium but one bloke got busted as he sold his CDs all over the world. Any truth behind that? BTW, are you saying spanish Chubby Checker is not legit?

Belgian law says that after a certain period music is in the public domain, that being the case a lot of stuff gets an official release. No that Chubby Checker is legit, bad comparison on my side.

Isn't it 25 years after recording that a recording comes into public domain in Belgium and Holland??? I was told that is why some records that are boots were pressed there.

Well certainly we Brits would call it a re-issue, .

Most Brits I know call them boots...... :)

Isn't it 25 years after recording that a recording comes into public domain in Belgium and Holland??? I was told that is why some records that are boots were pressed there.

Yes probably, not sure that's the case in Holland but certainly is in Portugal.

Most Brits I know call them boots...... :)

D'you know, the release itself could be legit but the company pressing the actual record and using the Tollie label could well be "fake" and therefore a 1/2 boot !!

It is a legitimate issue, I see SABAM on it, that's the "Socit d'Auteurs Belge - Belgische Auteurs Maatschappij". So they've authorised it. So I guess it really is like that Chubby Checker on Spanish London.

post-4408-0-97145600-1339492125_thumb.jp

Chubby Checker on Spanish London has got nothing to do with anything, it's a legitimate release by London from 1976 when it almost made the UK charts on it's reissue.

Chubby Checker on Spanish London has got nothing to do with anything, it's a legitimate release by London from 1976 when it almost made the UK charts on it's reissue.

Pete if SABAM has sanctioned it then it's a legitimate release here too. :wave:

D'you know, the release itself could be legit but the company pressing the actual record and using the Tollie label could well be "fake" and therefore a 1/2 boot !!

A half boot?..........Like a Hush Puppy you mean?

Personally I think its a diamond studded thigh welly! :hatsoff2:

Chipping from Belgium! :lol:

I`d like to see his picture sleeve, the only ones I know are the VJ one and the U.S Demo which I sold to Dave Fergie. :g:

Edited by Guest

A half boot?..........Like a Hush Puppy you mean?

Personally I think its a diamond studded thigh welly! :hatsoff2:Chipping from Belgium! :lol:

I`d like to see his picture sleeve, the only ones I know are the VJ one and the U.S Demo which I sold to Dave Fergie. :g:

Steve

Gonna talk to Gilbert G tonight, he's a matrix maniac :D "I'll Be Bark"........................ :wink:

Steve

Gonna talk to Gilbert G tonight, he's a matrix maniac :D "I'll Be Bark"........................ :wink:

Apparently its a 1976 legit pressing Chris, price-wise £20 ish.

Chubby Checker on Spanish London has got nothing to do with anything, it's a legitimate release by London from 1976 when it almost made the UK charts on it's reissue.

I've often wondered about the provenance/history behind this record - I found several in a shop in Benidorm whilst on holiday there in about 1981. I bought 2 - gave one to a mate and still have the other. Thanks for the info.

Apparently its a 1976 legit pressing Chris, price-wise £20 ish.

I think it went for about £65.00.............................. :wink:

  • 3 weeks later...

Is this genuine? :g:https://www.ebay.co.u...039940087053754 Doesn't look right........ :unsure: Perhaps the clue is in the wording "original Belgium 7" single?

Finally got to track down Gilbert Govaerts a kind of Belgian Popcorn cross between Richard Searling & Ian L :ohmy: Anyway he said the record has been authorised by SABAM but reckons no royalties were ever paid. Released about 75-ish in answer to the BP fans demand. If you want to know his exact words they are :

een officiele bootleg,d.w.z.dat degene die deze plaat heeft gereleased, een toelating heeft bekomen van SABAM(als men maar betaalt is voor SABAM alles ok)om deze plaat te persen,maar geen valabele overeenkomst hebben met de eigenaar van dit werk!tenzij met een fictieve(nep)overeenkomst. :lol:

Ahem....

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'd call it a "legal boot". I doubt that Vivian Carter, Jimmy Bracken, Ewart Abner, Willingham, Barry or Sam Fletcher got any of the proceeds. So, they started a new Belgian Tollie Records? What were their other releases? Wouldn't this be treated as a "boot' on the UK Northern scene, in any case, regardless of the fact that Belgium treats art as "public domain" after only 25 years (and it is considered a "legitimate re-release"?

Anyone can/could press a record and have "SABAM" printed in plain text on the label.

That doesn't make it official or legal.

Exactly, they call em counterfeits. Plenty of bootleggers/counterfeiters used "all rights reserved" and other official looking abbreviations on the label.

Anyone can/could press a record and have "SABAM" printed in plain text on the label. That doesn't make it official or legal.

SABAM are very powerful and tough organisation they nearly shutdown the whole Belgian TV system some years ago over author rights, having said that if you pay them they'll allow pretty much anything

I'd call it a "legal boot". I doubt that Vivian Carter, Jimmy Bracken, Ewart Abner, Willingham, Barry or Sam Fletcher got any of the proceeds. So, they started a new Belgian Tollie Records? What were their other releases? Wouldn't this be treated as a "boot' on the UK Northern scene, in any case, regardless of the fact that Belgium treats art as "public domain" after only 25 years (and it is considered a "legitimate re-release"?

Where do you get the 25 year cut-off point from Robb?

The almost universally-accepted Berne Convention provides protection in excess of this period before entering the public domain, and Belgium (along with the rest of the EU) acknowledges this framework. Also, as a member of the Berne Convention, one would expect Belgium to support the laws of the country of origin of the work.

Just curious...

Where do you get the 25 year cut-off point from Robb?

The almost universally-accepted Berne Convention provides protection in excess of this period before entering the public domain, and Belgium (along with the rest of the EU) acknowledges this framework. Also, as a member of the Berne Convention, one would expect Belgium to support the laws of the country of origin of the work.

Just curious...

Is it not true that it is only in recent years though that countries like Belgium and Holland have brought their laws into line with that of the country of origin? I was told many a bootleg done over there because of the 25 years and into public domain.

Belgium is one of the original signatories of the Berne Convention, so one would have thought its laws would be pretty tight in terms of protecting the rights of owners. It did make amendments to its copyright laws in the mid-90s. so prior to then there could well have been perfectly legal to bring works - even those originating from other countries - into the public domain after just 25 years. If so, I imagine every other country participating in the Convention would have been clamouring for this 'loophole' to be closed!

Would be nice to have this 25 year thing clarified though.

Why is popcorn music called 'popcorn'?

Also did 'I'd think about it twice' get a belgium release?

What I actually meant was did it get an official release?

Oh and I've just loOked on Wikipedia for an answer to the popcorn question. Apologies.

Cheers Sebastian. I've just read the discussion about the track 'popcorn'...the idea that the engineer thought it was 'pop' and kitsch (=corn).

Cheers Sebastian. I've just read the discussion about the track 'popcorn'...the idea that the engineer thought it was 'pop' and kitsch (=corn).

The instrumental synth/moog track "Popcorn" hasn't got anything to do with the "popcorn scene" as far as I know

No it hasnt it's just that the search I did in Wikipedia came up with that info.

An to assume then that the term 'popcorn' came from a style of music being played at the club 'popcorn'?

  • 2 months later...

Finally got to track down Gilbert Govaerts a kind of Belgian Popcorn cross between Richard Searling & Ian L :ohmy: Anyway he said the record has been authorised by SABAM but reckons no royalties were ever paid. Released about 75-ish in answer to the BP fans demand. If you want to know his exact words they are :

een officiele bootleg,d.w.z.dat degene die deze plaat heeft gereleased, een toelating heeft bekomen van SABAM(als men maar betaalt is voor SABAM alles ok)om deze plaat te persen,maar geen valabele overeenkomst hebben met de eigenaar van dit werk!tenzij met een fictieve(nep)overeenkomst. :lol:

Ha! I should have translated this for you lot, long ago:

"an official bootleg- ie the one that this record has been released upon, one that has technically obtained permission from SABAM (if they merely pay SABAM, everything is ok according to them) to press this record, but no valid agreement was made with the owner of this piece, unless it's a fictitious (fake) agreement..

The makers DID NOT make an agreement with the owner, and, thus, the so-called "agreement" is invalid. Thus, even Govaerts admits that it is a bootleg.

Ha! I should have translated this for you lot, long ago: "an official bootleg- ie the one that this record has been released upon, one that has technically obtained permission from SABAM (if they merely pay SABAM, everything is ok according to them) to press this record, but no valid agreement was made with the owner of this piece, unless it's a fictitious (fake) agreement..

The makers DID NOT make an agreement with the owner, and, thus, the so-called "agreement" is invalid. Thus, even Govaerts admits that it is a bootleg.

Dat is een assumptie, geen bewijs voor of tegen ! :huh:

Ha! I should have translated this for you lot, long ago:

one that has technically obtained permission from SABAM (if they merely pay SABAM, everything is ok according to them) to press this record.........

Isn't that otherwise known as corruption?

Why is popcorn music called 'popcorn'?

Also did 'I'd think about it twice' get a belgium release?

They used to play a James Brown album called "The Popcorn"

ive since worled it out - the club it started at was called 'the popcorn'.....by the way, that album by james is a classic....if you like funk that is.

Dat is een assumptie, geen bewijs voor of tegen ! :huh:

Ja, inderdaad! Maar dit zijn slechts een vertaling, niet mijn eigen woorden! "maar geen valabele overeenkomst hebben met de eigenaar van dit werk!tenzij met een fictieve(nep)overeenkomst."

Don't kill the messenger!

I work for Dutch Disney Publications, Sanoma Uitgevers. So, I deal with international publishing rights. I am certain that copyright laws allowing 50 years automatic rights (plus, I believe the right to renew for another 25 years) are respected in The Netherlands. Belgian law is another issue. I can't say whether or not they adhere to the European law. I would guess that they should. But if that's the case, why the uncertainty with regard to their actions with their bootleg CDs and vinyl bootlegs?

Edited by RobbK

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