Mint Volt Stuff

[Dave Pinch]

the other week there was a couple of mint unplayed volt issues on ebay..paul thompson and charlene and soul serenaders.....and i was thinkin to myself i wonder how many of these does he have. well lo and behold the seller has them on again...i wonder how many he has,,,i hope he its a few then i might be able to afford them. anybody else spotted em

[Tony Smith]

I was thinking the same!

[NEV]

Must be another warehouse find ,looking at the Consistency of the label listing .

A lesson to us all ..the major labels did press em by the 1000's

[Steve G]

Must be another warehouse find ,looking at the Consistency of the label listing .

A lesson to us all ..the major labels did press em by the 1000's

Not in question that Nev....the question is always how many got out after pressing and how many got junked.

As for these Charlenes, the guy says he got them from a record exec.and names him in the post.

[John Reed]

Is it just me or are issues of the leased-in stuff genuinely harder to get hold of (not necessarily more expensive) than the In-house developed volt issues (if you know what I mean..) as they probably sold bugger all or were not pressed in the quantity as the others. ie Paul Thompson, Charlene & The SS, Roz Ryan, Collette Kelly to name a few.

Edited June 15, 2012 by John Reed

[Steve G]

Think with a label like Stax they knew that the next Sam & Dave, Otis Redding, Rufus Thomas etc. would sell thousands, and they advertised them widely (Cashbox, Billboard, TV appearances etc.) because these acts already had hits under their belt, so they'd press more and get them round the country, plugged and into the shops. Not so with the Roz Ryan's, Paul thompson's etc. which had to try and fit in around the hit makers. So yes I am sure press runs were lower. The great thing about our music though is all these wonderful non hit wonders eh?

[sepia]

noticed this a while back.he now has private feedback so you cant see how many copies hes sold.

seen a guy who also has copies of little richies/just another heartache,sam fletcher/id think it over,celebrities/you didnt tell the truth & a few others.hes crafty & only puts them out now & then.

seems to be alot of mark-keys/my sweet baby & sherri taylor/hes the one who rings my bell mint copies on the go.

ive to much time on my hands,lol.

[Dobber]

i sold a limitations on volt on here not long ago,i reckon its as rare as the paul thompson,or charlene,but no doubt that will turn up by the ship load,im always wearie about issues on major labels fetching big money, sods law you bust a high price o a 45 then law and behold boxes turn up......but then again im daft enough!

[Steve G]

There's no doubt excluding a couple of vanity 45s, they pressed up quantity on every title - I don't know but probably 5,000 minimum. The mystery is always what happened to the copies that weren't sold? Something like the Limitations might have gone local only, to Arkansas / Tennessee say, and if the distribution men there kept them, they're still there waiting to be found in some old geezers basement. If they threw them out with last week's newspaper, or sold them on, then it may never turn up in quantity. Sorry but can't describe it any other way.

BTW I found "Rat Race' in a collectors shop in New Orleans for $1 - RE-sult I reckon!!!

[Guest Raresoulie]

Back in the late 80's early 90's my brother Chris used to run the Cecil pub in Doncaster, and he used to have the occasional soul night, and on one such occasion a lad turned up with a battered 50 single box of bits to sell.

I spotted him first and got my hands on the box, but it was filled with usual soul motown atlantic bits, all not very exciting, so I never bothered to finish looking.

The next bloke to have a look (Alex Denham I think), carried on to the back of the box and pulled out a minty Paul Thompson special kind of woman, and it cost him £3.....ouch!

I have never liked that bloody record since that day

Heath.

[Steve G]

Paul Thompson came into Record Corner as a new release import apparently. Sam told me that's where he got his first copy.

[Dave Pinch]

noticed this a while back.he now has private feedback so you cant see how many copies hes sold.

seen a guy who also has copies of little richies/just another heartache,sam fletcher/id think it over,celebrities/you didnt tell the truth & a few others.hes crafty & only puts them out now & then.

seems to be alot of mark-keys/my sweet baby & sherri taylor/hes the one who rings my bell mint copies on the go.

ive to much time on my hands,lol.

yeh i noticed it too the last time they were on and when i checked feedback noticed he`d gone all private

[sepia]

yeh i noticed it too the last time they were on and when i checked feedback noticed he`d gone all private

at least he is honest & states the fact that he got the collection from a guy in the business & had over stock from the labels.just depend's how much over stock,lol.

[boba]

There's no doubt excluding a couple of vanity 45s, they pressed up quantity on every title - I don't know but probably 5,000 minimum. The mystery is always what happened to the copies that weren't sold? Something like the Limitations might have gone local only, to Arkansas / Tennessee say, and if the distribution men there kept them, they're still there waiting to be found in some old geezers basement. If they threw them out with last week's newspaper, or sold them on, then it may never turn up in quantity. Sorry but can't describe it any other way.

BTW I found "Rat Race' in a collectors shop in New Orleans for $1 - RE-sult I reckon!!!

you probably know this, but the limitations was a leased in production from philadelphia. I'd imagine that area got serviced?

what are the vanity presses? There was one on ebay recently, it was the memphis nomads but it had something about being a charity thing on the label. I vaguely remember someone trying to sell an early volt on ebay a long time ago for $2500 with some story about it but don't remember what it was.

[Steve G]

Yes, I am sure Philly got serviced, was just using an example.

Memphis Nomads was the obvious example of a vanity Bob. Melvin Van Peebles soundtrack thing probably another one, but on Stax- Volt there were not any more I can readily think of.

[boba]

Yes, I am sure Philly got serviced, was just using an example.

Memphis Nomads was the obvious example of a vanity Bob. Melvin Van Peebles soundtrack thing probably another one, but on Stax- Volt there were not any more I can readily think of.

Just to clarify, the memphis nomads 45 (which is an uncredited cover of the manhattans) isn't that rare, the "vanity" was just the thing about it being done for some charity on the label.

I don't know why the melvin van peebles 45 from the LP is "vanity" -- there were a lot more weird and random artists on the label in the 70s. Same with motown.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Paul Thompson came into Record Corner as a new release import apparently. Sam told me that's where he got his first copy.

I've already contradicted you once on this, Stevie boy.

Take it for someone who was working there when Paul Thompson was a new release that it did not. Nor, for that matter, did Charlene and the Soul Serenaders and/or a few other Stax/Volt obscurities for around the same period...

Wherever Sam bought it from, it was not 27 Bedford Hill. I'm also pretty sure that he was neither a shop nor mail order customer at that time, too...

[boba]

I've already contradicted you once on this, Stevie boy.

oh snap, you're not going to sit there and just take this steve, are you?

[boba]

unrelated to the records discussed above, a totally impossible to find volt record with the stock b-side is the second newcomers record. i looked for years and it's not like it was on anyone's radar. finally got one for $10 in a craig moerer auction... b-side was decent too.

[Mick Sway]

i sold a limitations on volt on here not long ago,i reckon its as rare as the paul thompson,or charlene,but no doubt that will turn up by the ship load,im always wearie about issues on major labels fetching big money, sods law you bust a high price o a 45 then law and behold boxes turn up......but then again im daft enough!

I take it that this is The Limitations Hold on to it.

If its of any interest, back in 1973 Record Corner did 100 record soul packs (might have been 100 45's for £10).

Being a hard up textile worker I chipped in with a pal to split the box.

Obviously I can't recall everything in there, but there were a fair amount of Stax and Volt late 60's early 70's releases.

At the time the Torch was our thing and we (unfortunately) thought that they were a pile of crap,

We bundled em in 5's and sold them on to friends at 50p each, thinking we'd made a loss.

A few were held on to in my half including The Limitations "all because of you", The Newcomers "mannish Boy" plus the Ethics "Sweet Tomorrow" on Wale

and Jackie Wilson's much underrated "you left the fire burning".

Basser my mate, had in his half Channel 3. Many years later I asked him about his tunes and he said his son had unfortunately

nicked em from the loft and sold them on.

The point I'm making here ,is that Stax/Volt was a vibrant commercial label in the early 1970's and to my deep regret

I ignored their output. Evidently Record Corner must have felt the same.

The people that I sold my soul pack tunes onto weren't collectors, they'd probably have ended up in the bin.

Interesting thread, thanks for sharing.

Just wish I'd got the cash for mint copies of the records mentioned.

[media=]

Edited June 16, 2012 by Mick Sway

[John Reed]

Of all of the Stax releases I've got, from the early 60's until the Fantasy ownership. Its the Volt 4000 series, I hold closest to my heart.

Edited June 16, 2012 by John Reed

[Pete S]

That Memphis Nomads record is something to do with "The march of dimes" whatever that is. I've had a couple, no interest in them.

[Blake H]

See he's put a high reserve on them to max up profit, guess it would take a lot of copies to satisfy world demand and bring prices down. The George Jacksons on Verve are still a steady seller at £70+.

BH

[Godzilla]

That Memphis Nomads record is something to do with "The march of dimes" whatever that is. I've had a couple, no interest in them.

Just pasted this from something I wrote in 2006:

"March of dimes is the name for a group of charity organisations that raise money in various states for health related causes. It was started by President Roosevelt after he contracted Polio"

[Mick Sway]

unrelated to the records discussed above, a totally impossible to find volt record with the stock b-side is the second newcomers record. i looked for years and it's not like it was on anyone's radar. finally got one for $10 in a craig moerer auction... b-side was decent too.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge, which Newcomers 45 are you referring to?

Thanks

Mick

Edited June 16, 2012 by Mick Sway

[boba]

Please excuse my lack of knowledge, which Newcomers 45 are you referring to?

Thanks

Mick

Sorry I was not clear. The group's first 2 45s are on Volt. The record is this:

Volt 4049 - Newcomers - Still A Boy In My Heart / You Put The Sunshine Back

[Mister Fish]

I spoke to this guy. He says he has about 6 each of Charlene & Seranaders & of Paul Thompson 45's. The others maybe up to 20 copies.

[Marc Forrest]

I spoke to this guy. He says he has about 6 each of Charlene & Seranaders & of Paul Thompson 45's. The others maybe up to 20 copies.

that will be easily watched...if I havent lost count he is now up to his fifth copy (on Paul Thompson).

[Marc Forrest]

I've already contradicted you once on this, Stevie boy.

Take it for someone who was working there when Paul Thompson was a new release that it did not. Nor, for that matter, did Charlene and the Soul Serenaders and/or a few other Stax/Volt obscurities for around the same period...

Wherever Sam bought it from, it was not 27 Bedford Hill. I'm also pretty sure that he was neither a shop nor mail order customer at that time, too...

strangely enough a lot of these titles found their way as new releases to Berlin though. When in 1992 a well-established old record and instruments shop by the name of Musik Wiebach closed down they had a big sale out and put out boxes of old 45s sales stock at 1,- DM each. You had to go their every day as they brought new boxes up from their basement on a daily basis. Along other stuff I got hold there of many of the big titles on Capitol (Chubby & Turnpikes, Jerry Cook etc), Columbia (Walter Jackson, Aretha Franklin, Spellbinders etc etc) and along other labels .. Volt! All Margie Joseph, Roz Ryan, Newcomers, JJ Banes, TSU Toronadoes, Darrel Banks etc...not me but a mate found the Paul Thompson in there.

[Mike Lofthouse]

Think with a label like Stax they knew that the next Sam & Dave, Otis Redding, Rufus Thomas etc. would sell thousands, and they advertised them widely (Cashbox, Billboard, TV appearances etc.) because these acts already had hits under their belt, so they'd press more and get them round the country, plugged and into the shops. Not so with the Roz Ryan's, Paul thompson's etc. which had to try and fit in around the hit makers. So yes I am sure press runs were lower. The great thing about our music though is all these wonderful non hit wonders eh?

Of course by the time Paul Thompson ( and the blue Volts) were getting released Stax no longer had the Redding, Sam & Dave et al catalog as Wexler and Co at Atlantic had had away with it !!! Stax had to diversify and took the label in all directions hence the bought in Detrioit stuff and the like. And ultimately the influx of gangsters which eventually ruined and killed the label. So post Atlantic I'm not sure they ever had an established roster to compare to the glory days of the 60's. IMHO. Mike

[Steve G]

oh snap, you're not going to sit there and just take this steve, are you?

Sam says he got it there, Tony Rounce says he didn't?

I feel like a go between between two old geezers discussing the war.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Steve G

[Peter99]

Sam says he got it there, Tony Rounce says he didn't?

I feel like a go between between two old geezers discussing the war.

That made me smile Steve.

[Steve G]

Just to clarify, the memphis nomads 45 (which is an uncredited cover of the manhattans) isn't that rare, the "vanity" was just the thing about it being done for some charity on the label.

I don't know why the melvin van peebles 45 from the LP is "vanity" -- there were a lot more weird and random artists on the label in the 70s. Same with motown.

Yes like ll the big labels towards the end they became more reliant on leased in deals rather than their old product.

[Mike Lofthouse]

Sam says he got it there, Tony Rounce says he didn't?

I feel like a go between between two old geezers discussing the war.

My money is on Tony - can't believe Sam was buying new releases like this back then - especially obscure stuff like that - his taste even 5 years later on was appalling. It was a long time before he 're-invented' himself to be a lover of all things modern :o)

[Garethx]

Good opportunity to get a mint vinyl copy of Darrell Banks ITOWLY: seldom seen in anything but well-used condition.

[boba]

BTW I found "Rat Race' in a collectors shop in New Orleans for $1 - RE-sult I reckon!!!

Steve, I missed this, are you implying that the Leaders "rat race" are the same group on volt? I'm pretty sure that's not true. The Volt group is a later version of the Moments on Hog. Their volt records were produced by Bert Keyes and Myrna March for Volt. The Moments/Leaders group had pretty much no connection to Memphis.

[Steve G]

No Bob, totally different group....Leaders Rat Race was a record from Little Rock.

Steve

[Blake H]

Both ended with reserve not met :g:

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

My money is on Tony - can't believe Sam was buying new releases like this back then - especially obscure stuff like that - his taste even 5 years later on was appalling. It was a long time before he 're-invented' himself to be a lover of all things modern :o)

Back when PT was released Record Corner's main US suppliers were in New York and Philadephia. What was supplied to us was largely dependent on whether or not a record was breaking above the Mason-Dixon Line.

Obviously we got all the new Stax group releases by the likes of Carla, Rufus, Johnnie Taylor, the Emotions etc. But if something like Paul Thompson wasn't breaking in the north of America, the distributors generally didn't stock it.

We also bought from a distributor in MIami but we couldn't even get everything on Alston from him, let alone Stax or Volt.

It's worth mentioning that not all the London based soul shops were getting the same things in at that time. I often used to travel up to Contempo to hear and occasionally buy new releases so that I could report back to RC manager Dave Hastings on how good things did or didn't sound and whether or not it was worth RC's while to try a bit harder to get them. I can remember buying Phillip Mitchell's 'Free For All' in Contempo, and I know that RC never managed to get that as a new release, either.

My final word on PT is this - I am still in close contact with three or four guys from the Northern scene (two of them are on here) who used to come to RC every week and buy new releases. (that's 'in close contact' as in 'I have a beer with them almost every Thursday'). Not one of them has ever owned a stock copy of the single and all of them are, like me, 100% certain that RC never had 'Special Kind Of Woman' as a new release/soul pack item/frisbee/whatever.

Not one of them remembers Sam shopping in RC at that time, either.

Incidentally, Paul Thompson is believed to have come from either Florence or Sheffield, Alabama. David Hood remembers the session for the single and told me that Paul was a quiet, well-spoken individual. He wasn't actually signed to Stax - David said that it was just a little session that they did at Muscle Shoals Sound that Al Bell liked, and bought for Volt as a 'quota quickie' i.e something to maintain a release schedule with beyond the releases of core Stax artists. Other than pressing a demo, it's unlikely that Stax ever really put any effort into breaking the record, even locally...

Edited June 18, 2012 by TONY ROUNCE

[boba]

No Bob, totally different group....Leaders Rat Race was a record from Little Rock.

Steve

Thanks. I knew they were different, just wanted to clarify what I thought you were saying. Thanks a lot.

[Dave Pinch]

Both ended with reserve not met :g:

which makes him a nutter in my book

[Steve G]

Back when PT was released Record Corner's main US suppliers were in New York and Philadephia. What was supplied to us was largely dependent on whether or not a record was breaking above the Mason-Dixon Line.

Obviously we got all the new Stax group releases by the likes of Carla, Rufus, Johnnie Taylor, the Emotions etc. But if something like Paul Thompson wasn't breaking in the north of America, the distributors generally didn't stock it.

We also bought from a distributor in MIami but we couldn't even get everything on Alston from him, let alone Stax or Volt.

It's worth mentioning that not all the London based soul shops were getting the same things in at that time. I often used to travel up to Contempo to hear and occasionally buy new releases so that I could report back to RC manager Dave Hastings on how good things did or didn't sound and whether or not it was worth RC's while to try a bit harder to get them. I can remember buying Phillip Mitchell's 'Free For All' in Contempo, and I know that RC never managed to get that as a new release, either.

My final word on PT is this - I am still in close contact with three or four guys from the Northern scene (two of them are on here) who used to come to RC every week and buy new releases. (that's 'in close contact' as in 'I have a beer with them almost every Thursday'). Not one of them has ever owned a stock copy of the single and all of them are, like me, 100% certain that RC never had 'Special Kind Of Woman' as a new release/soul pack item/frisbee/whatever.

Not one of them remembers Sam shopping in RC at that time, either.

Incidentally, Paul Thompson is believed to have come from either Florence or Sheffield, Alabama. David Hood remembers the session for the single and told me that Paul was a quiet, well-spoken individual. He wasn't actually signed to Stax - David said that it was just a little session that they did at Muscle Shoals Sound that Al Bell liked, and bought for Volt as a 'quota quickie' i.e something to maintain a release schedule with beyond the releases of core Stax artists. Other than pressing a demo, it's unlikely that Stax ever really put any effort into breaking the record, even locally...

Thank you for this detailed account Tony and I am not going to belabour the argument, since I wasn't there at the time....

Re reserves not met, hopefully a dose of realism creeping back in....

[Dave Pinch]

hopefully he will stop putting silly reserves on them . the records will sell themselves anyway because of the condition and the quality of the 45`s and the price will balance out with the amount of copies he has

[boba]

hopefully he will stop putting silly reserves on them . the records will sell themselves anyway because of the condition and the quality of the 45`s and the price will balance out with the amount of copies he has

some people are just delusional in ways that act against them actually making money. greed contributes to the delusion.

[Mike Lofthouse]

He can always come back with another pop at them which he would not of been able to do had he undersold them . They are his records so he can do what he likes with them as long as he does not come here complaining that he can't sell them !

[Blake H]

some people are just delusional in ways that act against them actually making money. greed contributes to the delusion.

He needs a bit of the Manship magic in his description " In forty years of dealing I have never seen a better................................................

Edited June 18, 2012 by BLAKE H

[Blake H]

Looks like the same is happening here with Bobby Burn, wonder if its a return or another and how many he might have.

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150844193317&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

BH

[Denbo]

On a more mundane point of interest, if Sebastian is reading this, or if anybody else would like to oblige, can you tell me if red and white Demos on the early Volt label design are unusual or common? Red and black Demos yes, but what about red and white ones?