Norris Vines , Pro Fas. etc ??

Cheers

Simon

Edited February 19, 200619 yr by Simon M

Natural Impulse

Natural impulse has got to be there.....actual rarity is difficult to quantify, talking to some of the guys that were around the fledgling modern scene in the early days, records we consider to be rare were available at that time...

Great thread Alison.....I`ll have a think......

Chris

Natural impulse has got to be there.....actual rarity is difficult to quantify, talking to some of the guys that were around the fledgling modern scene in the early days, records we consider to be rare were available at that time...

Great thread Alison.....I`ll have a think......

Chris

Yeah I was around then . so this should be interesting for me I assume crossover is 70's though

Didn't Simon start the thread Chris ?

Nathan Williams - what price, has got to be right up there IMO

Yeah I was around then . so this should be interesting for me I assume crossover is 70's though

My definition of "Crossover" is that transistional period from late 1968 to '73 Well produced chuggers with soulful vocals none of the records mentioned so far fit that catagory..examples could be Na Allen - Atco, Moses Smith - Cotillion, Wilson Love etc type tunes would have been my choice.. As for Natural Impulse .. I sold it last year for an unbelievable price...its rarity is unquestionable

Joseph Webster, superb

Joseph Webster, superb

Trevski

tell me if I'm wrong but Joeseph Webster doesn't fit the cross-over catagory..

surely it's rare soulful dance 70s ..modern dancer

check the soundclips in this area there are 100s but this is surely crossover https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/rare-soul-vin...s-over/XO/all/1

If it's not, then I got a bit of work to do to find a name for this stuff..

My definition of "Crossover" is that transistional period from late 1968 to '73 Well produced chuggers with soulful vocals none of the records mentioned so far fit that catagory..examples could be Na Allen - Atco, Moses Smith - Cotillion, Wilson Love etc type tunes would have been my choice.. As for Natural Impulse .. I sold it last year for an unbelievable price...its rarity is unquestionable

The meaning of Crossover - Discuss. We've had fun with this one over the years Several differing viewpoints nowadays. Some assess it by year; some by the style, sound and vibe; some judge by whether a record "crossed over" from a Modern room to a Northern room - but for me it doesn't really matter as long as it floats my boat.

As much as I yearn for a copy of Natural Impulse with all my heart - when the price gets so obscene, I learn to get over it pretty quickly When something becomes financially unattainable - the fun goes out of the hunt.

The meaning of Crossover - Discuss. We've had fun with this one over the years Several differing viewpoints nowadays. Some assess it by year; some by the style, sound and vibe; some judge by whether a record "crossed over" from a Modern room to a Northern room - but for me it doesn't really matter as long as it floats my boat.

As much as I yearn for a copy of Natural Impulse with all my heart - when the price gets so obscene, I learn to get over it pretty quickly When something becomes financially unattainable - the fun goes out of the hunt.

There are future "Natural Impulses" to be bought today if you dig hard enough.. more collectors are now buying £15 to £30 bracket seldom seen titles.. . 5 years time you could have a 4 figure record.. if not, you'll have lots of rare records for the right price.... most Natural Impulse owners obtained copies for realistic prices..get hunting

There are future "Natural Impulses" to be bought today if you dig hard enough.. more collectors are now buying £15 to £30 bracket seldom seen titles.. . 5 years time you could have a 4 figure record.. if not, you'll have lots of rare records for the right price.... most Natural Impulse owners obtained copies for realistic prices.

When did crossover start coming into our Lingo ..

There are future "Natural Impulses" to be bought today if you dig hard enough.. more collectors are now buying £15 to £30 bracket seldom seen titles.. . 5 years time you could have a 4 figure record.. if not, you'll have lots of rare records for the right price.... most Natural Impulse owners obtained copies for realistic prices..get hunting

When did crossover start coming into our Lingo ..

First place was perhaps Thorn.. way back about 15 years ago.. common speak at Great Yarmouth Soul Essence Weekenders but by 11pm it's called "shhlloshhhh-over"

Norris Vines , Pro Fas. etc ??

Cheers

Simon

Dunno about now. But deffo Tony Galla top 10 crossover at one time.

Rock Mill 5238 - Let Love In Your Life"- 1991 Charisma .. Has a crossover feel to me , must be quite cheap still . but its late 80's if i remember rightly ?

Edited February 19, 200619 yr by Simon M

First place was perhaps Thorn.. way back about 15 years ago.. common speak at Great Yarmouth Soul Essence Weekenders but by 11pm it's called "shhlloshhhh-over"

Ahh Steve P and co ...I see

The meaning of Crossover - Discuss.

Always understood 'Crossover' to be a record played on the scene that didn't fit the usual criteria of NS. Namely black soul.

Dunno about now. But deffo Tony Galla top 10 crossover at one time.

If Tony Galla is crossover/ then I'm gonna watch the Villa beat Man City..

If Tony Galla is crossover/ then I'm gonna watch the Villa beat Man City..

Then again if Man city get a decent Crossover

If Tony Galla is crossover/ then I'm gonna watch the Villa beat Man City..

Hi John .Played Robert Tanner a few times over the last few years to be "informed" its crossover??ATB Steve

The topic of rarity getting sidetracked by the inevitable definition of crossover debate Quelle suprise.

I'd probably agree with JM's description of crossover but maybe stretch to the mid 70's. Records that aren't quite northern and not quite modern (as was).

These days owt seems to go.

If Tony Galla is crossover/ then I'm gonna watch the Villa beat Man City..

Always rated that Angel (ang-hell) kid. TG white organ mod thing. Always remember Graham Thomas saying "if you told people Tony Galla was a soul record they'd laff at yer". So it's not crossover? Not Soul, yet played to death on NS scene - hmmm.

the inevitable definition of crossover debate Quelle suprise.

Kind of has a bearing on the thread though. Wouldn't you say?

First place was perhaps Thorn.. way back about 15 years ago.. common speak at Great Yarmouth Soul Essence Weekenders but by 11pm it's called "shhlloshhhh-over"

Absolutely - and Voices ran a great 'Crossover Special' article in issue 16 - i've just dug it out - some faves that I bought around that time were George Perkins - I'm So Glad Your Mine, Kent Drake - Boss Thing Together & Don Gardner - Your Love Is Driving Me Crazy.

And John - in the old days at Yarmouth it was 11am, not 11pm

Girf

Richard Marks on Tuska and Shout (although not as rare). Chuck Cockerham, & Richard Caiton.

Edited February 19, 200619 yr by chalky

as to a definition of crossover, i'd say a classic crossover sound would be something like the ascots, a few feet from the gutter - not 'modern' in the old definition of modern but not 60s soul either...wouldn't have been played on either the modern or northern scenes in their heydays (unless i'm wrong about that particular record?)...thus it crosses over both.

as to when crossover originated as a term, i'd have said early 90s?

as to a definition of crossover, i'd say a classic crossover sound would be something like the ascots, a few feet from the gutter - not 'modern' in the old definition of modern but not 60s soul either...wouldn't have been played on either the modern or northern scenes in their heydays (unless i'm wrong about that particular record?)...thus it crosses over both.

as to when crossover originated as a term, i'd have said early 90s?

spot on

Mick

First place was perhaps Thorn.. way back about 15 years ago.. common speak at Great Yarmouth Soul Essence Weekenders but by 11pm it's called "shhlloshhhh-over"

shhlloshhhh-over. You will sell loads of it John !

Hope you are well my old friend ?

I suppose one mans crossover is another mans northern...its an over used term but to me its always meant that the record came from a period from 1969 to 1974 when musical style was changing from the more motownesque beat to a more 2-step beat......but the record is still soulful and danceable enough to get plays and be aproved of on the scene.

Back to the thread, I suppose we are talking stuff like;

Tony Troutman-Whats the use

Earl White Jnr-Very special girl

Milton Parker-Women like it harder

Matt Brown-Thankyou baby

etc

I've always understood the term to mean as Chris says the period from the between the changeover from motown rhythm to the more modern rhythm. The time between the more straight forward beats of Motown and disco.

Virgil Henry's/Cookie Woodson's 'I'll Be True" springs to mind. I have to say I think 'crossobers" thrown up some great records- who mentioned 'Few Feet From The Gutter' ? Absolutley superb, whatever you label it ! How about Chuck Cockerham-is it crossover?

But it threw up some really tedious things too.

So whats the definition of 'tent' music?

Not a top ten xover rarities list,just 45`s i`d put into the xover bracket,

Contellations-I don`t know about you

Dynells-call on me

Fantastics-Where theres a will there`s a way

Internationals-Beautiful philosphy

Spartans-I don`t need another lover

Chuck Cockerham-Have i the right

Guitar Ray-gonna wreck my life

Both Natural 4 45s on Bola Bola

Eula Cooper-Try

Ladellics-never gonna change my love

Chuck Ray-I don`t mind

Margie Joseph-One more chance

Imperial Wonders-Just a dream

Rotations-I can`t find her

Differences-Five minutes

Jive Fyve-If i had a chance to love you

Norwood Long-I`d like to have you

George Jackson-I don`t have the time to love you

You get the jest of it else i`ll be here all night doing this

Dave f.........

So whats the definition of 'tent' music?

crossover/modern played in a tent cause they didn't have a proper room innit

I suppose one mans crossover is another mans northern...its an over used term but to me its always meant that the record came from a period from 1969 to 1974 when musical style was changing from the more motownesque beat to a more 2-step beat......but the record is still soulful and danceable enough to get plays and be aproved of on the scene.

Back to the thread, I suppose we are talking stuff like;

Tony Troutman-Whats the use

Earl White Jnr-Very special girl

Milton Parker-Women like it harder

Matt Brown-Thankyou baby

etc

Great shouts Chris,

Milton Parker is a great example to use ...fabulous record...The Matt Brown record is great also both records seem to share similar backing oddly enough......

Edited February 20, 200619 yr by Richard Bergman

SHUSH, DON,T TALK ABOUT TUNES IF JOHN IS ON HERE.THEY WILL BE ON HIS AUCTION LIST BY TUESDAY.HI JOHN.

TREV

CROSSOVER

Matt Brown.mp3

Edited February 20, 200619 yr by firefly

Not a top ten xover rarities list,just 45`s i`d put into the xover bracket,

Contellations-I don`t know about you

Dynells-call on me

Fantastics-Where theres a will there`s a way

Internationals-Beautiful philosphy

Spartans-I don`t need another lover

Chuck Cockerham-Have i the right

Guitar Ray-gonna wreck my life

Both Natural 4 45s on Bola Bola

Eula Cooper-Try

Ladellics-never gonna change my love

Chuck Ray-I don`t mind

Margie Joseph-One more chance

Imperial Wonders-Just a dream

Rotations-I can`t find her

Differences-Five minutes

Jive Fyve-If i had a chance to love you

Norwood Long-I`d like to have you

George Jackson-I don`t have the time to love you

You get the jest of it else i`ll be here all night doing this

Dave f.........

Spartans-I don`t need another lover Playing this in my spots, top tune.

Not really certain how rare F. J. Jones is on P.S., but it is without doubt one of my favourite crossover 45's, plus i've asked plenty of respected people who collect this type of sound (Chris Anderton included) and quite a few have never seen it.

Ps..bought it off Mr Manship perhaps John could tell me if he's seen a few of these over the years?

Brett

ARTIE FULLILOVE - THANK YOU , now that is top draw crossover

Mellow Madness - Save The Youth - Mega.

Perhaps not 'Crossover', but that's gotta feature if Trev is allowed Joseph Webster

Not really certain how rare F. J. Jones is on P.S., but it is without doubt one of my favourite crossover 45's, plus i've asked plenty of respected people who collect this type of sound (Chris Anderton included) and quite a few have never seen it.

Ps..bought it off Mr Manship perhaps John could tell me if he's seen a few of these over the years?

Brett

Hi Brett ,TOP tune,since you played this at SON been looking for a copy........some months now.You know I usually aim for 6ts stuff, only a few xover grab me ....this tune is one that does.Quality piece.ATB Stevie

Frederick Hymes III-Time aint gonna do me no favors

Bernard Smith -never gonna let you go

Billy Kent -take it all this time

Major Lance - without a doubt

Nathan Williams - what price

Matt Brown - Thankyou baby

Mellow Madness - Save The Youth - Mega.

Perhaps not 'Crossover', but that's gotta feature if Trev is allowed Joseph Webster

Surely Jazz Funk Jamiecakes

But i know what you mean Over the last few years if you were to attend a "Crossover" event you are very unlikey to hear an evening of records that strictly fall into the proverbial crossover pigeon hole. A plethora of other styles are played from either side of the divide as well.

What with the tendency for today's UK Modern Soul Scene to rely almost exclusively on new releases (and rightly so how can a 30+ year old record be modern?) the only place to hear these rare soul records is it seems at a crossover event and for me personally the lines between what were classed as modern records (late 70's early 80's) and your more traditional crossover sounds are blurring to such an extent that the term crossover is used to describe the records played at a crossover event ..........if you get my drift

Of course some out and out crossover records are more Northern nowadays take Ace Spectrum, Ruby Andrews, Vanguards, Hamilton Movement etc etc

All IMVFHO of course

Trouty

Surely Jazz Funk Jamiecakes

But i know what you mean Over the last few years if you were to attend a "Crossover" event you are very unlikey to hear an evening of records that strictly fall into the proverbial crossover pigeon hole. A plethora of other styles are played from either side of the divide as well.

What with the tendency for today's UK Modern Soul Scene to rely almost exclusively on new releases (and rightly so how can a 30+ year old record be modern?) the only place to hear these rare soul records is it seems at a crossover event and for me personally the lines between what were classed as modern records (late 70's early 80's) and your more traditional crossover sounds are blurring to such an extent that the term crossover is used to describe the records played at a crossover event ..........if you get my drift

Of course some out and out crossover records are more Northern nowadays take Ace Spectrum, Ruby Andrews, Vanguards, Hamilton Movement etc etc

All IMVFHO of course

Trouty

On the money there, Uncle Johnners.

Totally agree with what you say about a true 'Crossover' event; you get the full spectrum, from mid/late 60's to a current new release.

That's how I like to take my medicine anyhoo

and your more traditional crossover sounds are blurring to such an extent that the term crossover is used to describe the records played at a crossover event ..........if you get my drift

Quite right Mr Trout, Hear, Hear.........maybe it's time to keep crossover 'Crossover', Hear's my ten honoury 'Pure Crossover' selections for tonight.......

Keep On Strivin' Moses Smith

Tears and Misery Sonny Till

Magic Corner Belita Woods

It's The Real Thing Monica Higgins

What Can I Do Jean Shy

Where Is That Rainbow Dee Dee Warwick

I Get My Groove From You Bobby Shannon

My World of Extacy Reggie Soul

Let Me In Eboney Essence

Such A Wonderful Feeling Johnny Moore

Having said that we'll be 'Mixing It Up styleee' at this little get together..................

THE ORWELL - FRIDAY 24th FEBRUARY

Wigan Pier, Wigan

Soul Sam, Flanny, Steve Connor, Barry Maleady, Steve Plumb

With Special Guest DJ GLYN THORNHILL

8.30 pm - 2.30 am (with a 2 am bar!)

70's Modern & Crossover Soul with a smattering of quality Northern

Not really certain how rare F. J. Jones is on P.S., but it is without doubt one of my favourite crossover 45's, plus i've asked plenty of respected people who collect this type of sound (Chris Anderton included) and quite a few have never seen it.

Ps..bought it off Mr Manship perhaps John could tell me if he's seen a few of these over the years?

Brett

Great record but beware two different mixes! I have it on a plain yellow P.S and our kid's is on a fancy yellow and red P.S . His fortunately is a much poorer mix with the backing track being well down if I remember correctly.

Dave Ripolles

Norris Vines , Pro Fas. etc ??

Cheers

Simon

I'll attest to the Vines' rarity.

K in Toronto.

Great record but beware two different mixes! I have it on a plain yellow P.S and our kid's is on a fancy yellow and red P.S . His fortunately is a much poorer mix with the backing track being well down if I remember correctly.

Dave Ripolles

Hi David, yeah interesting i was asking Andy Whitmore about this 45' and he said he had it on a coloured label, i just thought the usual different pressing plant practices, but i'm glad to say i have the plain yellow single. Agreed though the 45' is staggeringly good for people who appreciate this genre of rare soul.

Brett

I agree with John M, Chalky and others definitions of crossover. Although it has all got a bit mixed up in todays scene, those guys have articulated the term in the way I understand it. Same with Girth mentioning the old "Voices" article. I'd therefore say that some of the bongo beat deep funk rejects we hear these days are most definately not crossover, albeit they get spun at venues, and some of them are pretty damn good. Crossover to me has an earthy chugging beat, and was a style caught between the Motown / Chi Sound uptempo style and the funk of James Brown and the like. Definately cast in time between the late 60s and early 70s. Anything beyond that to me is either "modern" in the northern sense (i.e. 30 years old modern), deep funk (Joseph Webster, Jerry Washington) or harmony soul (Nat Impulse, Fluorsecent Smogg etc).

The one term that has been forgotten in all this is "70s" - to describe uptempo dancers from the period 73-77 - mainly with a doff of the cap to Philly or NY influences, stuff like Pinch of Perfection, Life "Tell me why" etc- and what great music that was!

Cheers

Great record but beware two different mixes! I have it on a plain yellow P.S and our kid's is on a fancy yellow and red P.S . His fortunately is a much poorer mix with the backing track being well down if I remember correctly.

Dave Ripolles

Yes it was a bummer when I found out after I had bought mine. The difference is the yellow label mix is full on all the way through with drums nice and high in the mix, the yellow and red label is exactly the same recording but the drums and backing vocals come in later after a slightly more acoustic / stripped down intro. Both are great, but one is greater than the other.

Jordi