Love their early Pied Piper records - and their talent

 

Some of their later stuff seemed totally commercial - like " Born Free"?

 

Did they lose it?

 

Richard

 

 

No , they were doing what most acts do : listening to what their managers, producers and record labels were telling them was best to make a hit record. And it worked. Sam Cooke, Jackie Wilson and James Brown spent much of their careers singing old standards.

Edited September 11, 201311 yr by sunnysoul

It did pay some dividends for them in 1968.the success was shortlived though. I agree the tunes aren't as good

Most collectors think that artists wanted to stay chitlin circuit singing raw soul to an R&B audience. Artists wanted to cross over and actually be commercially successful. The Temptations and Supremes were acts whom artists looked up to. I don't want to hear those songs but I understand that when an artist signed to a major label their goal wasn't to make music I like.

Bob is right, having hit records is what it was all about.

 

When I was researching my book I did a piece (and interview) on The Constellations (the later version after they left Chicago) who of course had those fabulous productions on Gemini Star. Whether you are bored with the records or not they are great productions to listen to and stand up well on a good system, there isn't a note out of place.

 

Later they ended up opening up shows for Dionne for about 3 years, and their repetoire usually started with "The age of Aquarius" followed by several other equally bland popular songs. But it was great for them, regular work, TV apps, money in their pockets, touring the world, meeting other stars etc. Who would want to eat grits in the ghetto and wondering where the new check is coming from when you can have all that?

As has already been stated above, the goal of all labels, producers, artists, groups was to have hit records & thereby increase their live fees and bookings.

A soul hit that crossed over onto the pop charts also increased the bookings the artist / group would get in 'white clubs' which many times were classier places that paid acts more to perform. The Hesitations & their studio team were no different in their attitude to success, however it was achieved.

Anyway, a snippet from a piece I wrote on the group .......

The group's first 45 to be released was “Soul Superman / I’m Not Built That Way” (Kapp #790) and this hit the shops in December 1966. This entered the national R&B chart in mid January 1967, making the Top 50. In all, 8 tracks were lifted from the ‘Soul Superman’ album for single release (“Wait A Minute” being one) with “She Won’t Come Back / I’ll Be Right There” (April 1967) being another great coupling.

Kapp (& Gerald Purcell’s GWP Associates) teamed the group with other producers on their next recording session in the fall of 1967. In Chicago, with Larry Banks & Teacho Wiltshire, the group started cut tracks for their follow-up album. During this period though, tragedy struck the group. During a car journey, a gun accidently went off and George Scott was shot dead. Out of respect for George, the group soldiered on. In December, their new 45 was released; “Born Free”. Whilst they undertook tribute shows to honor George, their distinctive take on “Born Free” entered the national R&B charts (January 1968). Booked onto a prestigious show at Harlem’s Apollo Theatre, they were short of a replacement for George. Luckily an old friend, Bill Brent was in New York (with the Drifters) and so he joined them on this gig. Kapp released the groups ‘The New Born Free’ album in February and this also sold well, making the R&B album chart Top 40. These successes helped Bill Brent decide to quit the Drifters and take George’s place in the Hesitations. As the group now had a constant stream of live work, Wardell Taylor was recruited as their drummer. By early March their 45 was # 4 on the Billboard R&B chart and was also on the Top 40 pop chart.

Even though cuts such as “Push A Little Harder” were featured on their LP, none of the other album tracks were in a similar vein to “Born Free”. So “The Impossible Dream” was selected, cut & released as the group’s follow-up single (March 1968). This again made the R&B and pop charts, ensuring that they enjoyed an unbroken stint of 18 weeks on the national charts. Three further 45’s and two albums (‘Where We’re At’ & ‘Solid Gold’) were to escape on Kapp. Most of these tracks were recorded at RCA’s Chicago studio under the supervision of Teacho Wiltshire, Larry Banks & Johnny Pate, though the odd track was cut in New York. Their final entry on the Top 40 R&B singles chart proved to be “Who Will Answer” (July 1968). In November that year, the group undertook a tour of US Bases in Germany but GWP’s relationship with Kapp was ending. 

Bob is right, having hit records is what it was all about.

 

When I was researching my book I did a piece (and interview) on The Constellations (the later version after they left Chicago) who of course had those fabulous productions on Gemini Star. Whether you are bored with the records or not they are great productions to listen to and stand up well on a good system, there isn't a note out of place.

 

Later they ended up opening up shows for Dionne for about 3 years, and their repetoire usually started with "The age of Aquarius" followed by several other equally bland popular songs. But it was great for them, regular work, TV apps, money in their pockets, touring the world, meeting other stars etc. Who would want to eat grits in the ghetto and wondering where the new check is coming from when you can have all that?

 

actually some people I know in Chicago talk about how great Zach and the other Constellations were, talking about how professional looking, acting, dressing they were, as if they were destined for greatness, and how they were whenever they came back to the city. Artists looked up to people like Jackie Wilson as show business entertainers who truly "made it".

Actually if you go past the later Kapp recordings-though some are very good- you find them on the GWP label most of which are excellent. Check out the unreleased Go Away on the Kent 100 Club Anniversary singles CD

Also you could be successfull without going too showbizz like Aretha, JB, Temps, Al Green, Otis. I think the topic starter was probably comparing them to those acts rather than James Carr or Soul Brother Six

Also you could be successfull without going too showbizz like Aretha, JB, Temps, Al Green, Otis. I think the topic starter was probably comparing them to those acts rather than James Carr or Soul Brother Six

Ady, while you're totally correct on those acts recorded tracks (Aretha, JB, Temps, Al Green, Otis), I believe all of them (at times) included showbiz type songs in their live show repertoires to ensure everyone in their audience was kept happy. Acts that played the Copa in NY (& Vegas venues) always had to include show tunes in their act.

Edited September 11, 201311 yr by Roburt

Also you could be successfull without going too showbizz like Aretha, JB, Temps, Al Green, Otis. I think the topic starter was probably comparing them to those acts rather than James Carr or Soul Brother Six

 

The Hesitations were signed to Kapp, a pop label that attempted to create crossover hits. I don't think they "sold out" by signing to Kapp, they were probably super excited that their manager or a Kapp A&R person or however they got there got them there. I really don't see the comparison to James Carr or the Soul Brothers Six, especially in that they were Southern Soul acts that were more inherently "chitlin" and that they weren't signed to a big pop label.

Didn't their deal with Kapp come via GWP ?

Yes they were with GWP productions who placed them on Kapp before he had a label. I'll use different examples then Bob; the Intruders or the Diplomats. I know the other acts I mentioned did the odd show tune but they didn't build their recording strategy around them like the Heasitations management did in that period. But it worked, they sang the songs well (even the Dells were singing I Can Sing A Rainbow about this time) and reverted to mainstream soul later. I have no problem with it, I just skip listening to a few of this eras' sides. The answer is no they didn't totally sell out

Yes they were with GWP productions who placed them on Kapp before he had a label. I'll use different examples then Bob; the Intruders or the Diplomats. I know the other acts I mentioned did the odd show tune but they didn't build their recording strategy around them like the Heasitations management did in that period. But it worked, they sang the songs well (even the Dells were singing I Can Sing A Rainbow about this time) and reverted to mainstream soul later. I have no problem with it, I just skip listening to a few of this eras' sides. The answer is no they didn't totally sell out

 

But the Dells "I Can Sing A Rainbow" is just simply awesome........IMVFHO

and the 'New Born Free' album which includes the aforementioned track is fantastic - essential for any Soul collection!

Yes they were with GWP productions who placed them on Kapp before he had a label. I'll use different examples then Bob; the Intruders or the Diplomats. I know the other acts I mentioned did the odd show tune but they didn't build their recording strategy around them like the Heasitations management did in that period. But it worked, they sang the songs well (even the Dells were singing I Can Sing A Rainbow about this time) and reverted to mainstream soul later. I have no problem with it, I just skip listening to a few of this eras' sides. The answer is no they didn't totally sell out

 

Ady, I get the point you are making but The Intruders only ever had one Top 20 hit, and The Diplomats none at all ......Surely The Hesitations had their commercial sights set a little higher when they did "Born free"....more towards The Temps I'd have thought......

Billy Stewart didn't do too bad out of 'old standards' too ...........

.... AND they said you can't teach old standards new tricks ....

....... me thinks some soul stars could !!

and the 'New Born Free' album which includes the aforementioned track is fantastic - essential for any Soul collection!

Absolutely Mike, one of my all time favourite albums, essential for any soul collector, dead right, packed with incredible ballads and some great movers on there aswell

 

Kev

Some great responses to this thread guys - thanks all 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

But the Dells "I Can Sing A Rainbow" is just simply awesome........IMVFHO

 I agree, it wasn't a criticism

Who did 'People' from Funny Girl? The Tymes? That's actually a great version to my ears. Walter Jackson could get very cabaret too, couldn't he?

Billy Stewart didn't do too bad out of 'old standards' too ...........

.... AND they said you can't teach old standards new tricks ....

....... me thinks some soul stars could !!

messed   up , please Ignore

Edited September 11, 201311 yr by SWIFTY

a quote from the late great Bobby Bland....

 

"I get a lot of pointers from different people, diction-wise or phrasing-wise. Nat King Cole, as I said, for that softness, Perry Como for the old standards, because he shows no strain whatsoever when he's doing a song. Andy Williams and Tony Bennett.

Wow!  In this instance, I'm the fan and just had a wonderful education from all of you above.  It's like you all were sitting there in the room when decisions were being discussed.  Awesome.  It makes me wonder, if I had stayed with RCA what might have happened.  I came up on standards and would have loved to record the oldies.

 

I was nineteen when I met G. W. Purcell.  We had two meetings.  He appeared to be a strong stuctured man.  He had a scar on his upper lip (like a cleft lip) and all I saw was Mafia!    Scared me to death!   Of course, this was totally in my mind, but that was my impression.

 

Again, you all amaze me with your total knowledge.

 

Lorraine

Edited September 11, 201311 yr by lorchand

Based on my short conversation with Art Blakey (when I saw the reconstituted Hesitations last year) and from other talks he has given, this is about it. They were on Kapp through the Pied Piper connection (and they had that probably through the Cleveland connection with Shelly Haims). They were not interested in being the soul music answer to the Velvet Underground, they were a singing/performing group that was interested in making records and having hits and listening to those around them who had more experience in the recording industry. Art (and the others) started out in pre-soul vocal groups, where the MO was street corner singing and getting the attention of girls......the way to get there was out-singing the competition, not inventing new musical forms, and all the old vocal groups -going back to the Mills Brothers and the 'bird groups' -  did a lot of standards, it was a given.

The Hesitations were signed to Kapp, a pop label that attempted to create crossover hits. I don't think they "sold out" by signing to Kapp, they were probably super excited that their manager or a Kapp A&R person or however they got there got them there. I really don't see the comparison to James Carr or the Soul Brothers Six, especially in that they were Southern Soul acts that were more inherently "chitlin" and that they weren't signed to a big pop label.

Wow!  In this instance, I'm the fan and just had a wonderful education from all of you above.  It's like you all were sitting there in the room when decisions were being discussed.  Awesome.  It makes me wonder, if I had stayed with RCA what might have happened.  I came up on standards and would have loved to record the oldies.

 

I was nineteen when I met G. W. Purcell.  We had two meetings.  He appeared to be a strong stuctured man.  He had a scar on his upper lip (like a cleft lip) and all I saw was Mafia!    Scared me to death!   Of course, this was totally in my mind, but that was my impression.

 

Again, you all amaze me with your total knowledge.

 

Lorraine

 

Lorraine, you have amazed, and continue to amaze, many generations of soul music fans with your grace and incredible talent.

Edited September 12, 201311 yr by sunnysoul

Ady, I get the point you are making but The Intruders only ever had one Top 20 hit, and The Diplomats none at all ......Surely The Hesitations had their commercial sights set a little higher when they did "Born free"....more towards The Temps I'd have thought......

I think you're reading your charts wrong Steve (ask Russell Grant). The Intruders had 14 Hot 100 hits (1 in top 20) and well over 20 R&B hits. The Hesitations only had 4 Hot 100s (none in the top 20) and only 4 R&B. I was just using these acts as random examples of soul acts that had success but didn't go too sho-bizzy. I'm not sure how recording 'Born Free' is more like the Temps, more like Roy Hamilton from an earlier generation or Fifth Dimension in current material choice.

 

I was just trying to give examples of what the original poster was comparing the Hesitations MOR stuff to.

Who did 'People' from Funny Girl? The Tymes? That's actually a great version to my ears. Walter Jackson could get very cabaret too, couldn't he?

The Tymes version of 'People' is absolutely stunning- as are many 5th Dimension pop/show covers. The Hesitations Born Free doesn't change the style of the song so much that it could be claimed as their own as in 'People'.

Based on my short conversation with Art Blakey (when I saw the reconstituted Hesitations last year) and from other talks he has given, this is about it. They were on Kapp through the Pied Piper connection (and they had that probably through the Cleveland connection with Shelly Haims). They were not interested in being the soul music answer to the Velvet Underground, they were a singing/performing group that was interested in making records and having hits and listening to those around them who had more experience in the recording industry. Art (and the others) started out in pre-soul vocal groups, where the MO was street corner singing and getting the attention of girls......the way to get there was out-singing the competition, not inventing new musical forms, and all the old vocal groups -going back to the Mills Brothers and the 'bird groups' -  did a lot of standards, it was a given.

Yes it was a Shelley Haims link as he'd already recorded some of the group as the El Pollos in Cleveland

 HI ALL...On a personal note, LONDON HLR 10180 BORN FREE c/w PUSH A LITTLE HARDER, are 2 quality sides, although I play the B side the most, I have always liked the A side, it's just a shame the other 45s did not get a UK release, evens so the LONDON DEMO is quite hard to find in 2013, as to value I ain't got a clue DAVE K

Edited September 13, 201311 yr by dthedrug

interesting that the Dells was mentioned,  both the Dells and the Hesitations did 'Whiter Shade Of Pale' - a standard of sorts but I have never thought Soul Artists sound comfortable on these 'wordy' Rock songs............

 

We skipped the light fandango
turned cartwheels 'cross the floor
I was feeling kinda seasick
but the crowd called out for more
The room was humming harder
as the ceiling flew away
When we called out for another drink
the waiter brought a tray

And so it was that later
as the miller told his tale
that her face, at first just ghostly,
turned a whiter shade of pale

I think Chess was positioning the Dells as a pop-oriented Soul group for a long time, which is why they were on Cadet. Even the Argo stuff ("goodbye mary-ann"). Their harmonies could compete with the 5th Dimension or Association and they did poppy soul cuts. The Terry Callier writing added a folksy edge. The long version of Stay in my Corner got AOR rock play.

I think Chess was positioning the Dells as a pop-oriented Soul group for a long time, which is why they were on Cadet. Even the Argo stuff ("goodbye mary-ann"). Their harmonies could compete with the 5th Dimension or Association and they did poppy soul cuts. The Terry Callier writing added a folksy edge. The long version of Stay in my Corner got AOR rock play.

Chess were always trying to position their artists in the Rock/Pop market and did some awful things with (to) Muddy and the Wolf.  Wexler was the same at Atlantic - Picket singing Hey Jude, Sugar, Sugar and the likes  and Aretha of course- he lumbered her with some awful stuff.   It just does not work for me - Soul and R&B singers doing Rock.  As Otis said when Dylan offered him 'Just Like A Woman'  - 'too many words man' !

they were also cadet which was the pop/soul version of their label. i don't think chess were trying to position all artists as pop, probably the already more successful ones.

Great reading this folks. Thanks for all your contributions.

Cheers

Richard

Chess were always trying to position their artists in the Rock/Pop market

 

I agree, so many albums were polluted with MOR material.Sending their artists down South was a great improvement.

Not everything Kapp did was MOR orientated. They did sign a few soul acts and let them do their own thing .........

....... Sugar & Spice "In Love Forever" ............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOzk1gpf2LE

 

they were also cadet which was the pop/soul version of their label. i don't think chess were trying to position all artists as pop, probably the already more successful ones.I 

 totally agree Bob - I think the Chess family and Wexler and co at Atlantic always had an eye on the bigger prize - as much as they loved R&B they were in it to make money and why not?   

Not everything Kapp did was MOR orientated. They did sign a few soul acts and let them do their own thing .........

....... Sugar & Spice "In Love Forever" ............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOzk1gpf2LE

 

sugar and spice were a very pop-oriented act, not a counterexample. marvin / tammi style act.

 

edit: dumbness in my post removed

Edited September 14, 201311 yr by boba

 HI ALL...JUST TO MENTION - SHORTY LONG, HAD A MINOR HIT WITH "A WHITER SHADE" AS DIID JACKIE MITTO,

As for soul artist & groups who sang pop, even the old race label OKeh. had a try, yet they retained their SOUL  DAVE K

Like that little OKeh logo you sneaked in there Dave