'i've Got To Get Myself Together' Who Was First ?

[tlscapital 545]

While watching the live video of Spyder Turner at Prestatyn, the old question came back to me so bad I had to post it up here; I always assumed that Kenny Carter was first releasing this in may 1966.

 

While the credits on Kenny Carter's RCA release are totally different than on the Spider Turner's Good Time release (where it even credits Kenny Carter as co-writer) to give no clue what so ever on the who's-who's, it suggests that a copyright issue is in the can. For some non factual reasons, I always thought that Kenny Carter's record was prior.

 

But that would be totally the other way around according to Spyder Turner if what he said introducing this song on stage is true; Spyder says he was ABOUT 17 years old when he recorded the song in 1964 (that could match with his birthday in february 1947). Then he would have recorded 'get myself together' in 1964 (it doesn't sound that early IMHO) as a prize after winning the talent contest at the Apollo. His 'ABOUT' 17 years old tells us that his memory is not so accurate and it could maybe be some time after.

 

Still, it could be 1965 or somewhere like that. The date would then be the issue about who was first to record it. It would then put Spider Turner's version first. But then what is the connection/story with the Kenny Carter on the credit ? And then what about Kenny Carter not crediting himself on his version ? Anybody with more insight around and about this ?

 

[chalky 12,146]

Kenny Carter is 1965, the "s" at the beginning of the matrix defines this.

 

S(1965 )P(either promo or pop?) K(45) M(mono)

Edited March 16, 2014 by chalky

[tlscapital 545]

Kenny Carter is 1965, the "s" at the beginning of the matrix defines this.

 

S(1965 )P(either promo or pop?) K(45) M(mono)

All USA RCA discographies I've seen give Kenny Carter 'get myself together' RCA 47-8841 in the middle of their 1966 production and match one time as may 1966 (middle 1966) !

[chalky 12,146]

All USA RCA discographies I've seen give Kenny Carter 'get myself together' RCA 47-8841 in the middle of their 1966 production and match one time as may 1966 (middle 1966) !

 

I'm going by the matrix on the left hand side on the scan you posted underneath the RCA 47-8841?  

 

His unissued one on RCA What's That On Your Finger according to the cd notes was early 1966.

[chalky 12,146]

The matrix I'm referring to though is for mastering not the time of release.

[dave pinch 1,656]

may 1966 sounds about right with kenny carter and that rca catalogue number....spider signed with mgm  a couple of months later

[dave pinch 1,656]

whats the value on these two today.......spider hardly ever shows up

[chalky 12,146]

From another forum page I was reading....

 

In 1963 another set of codes was introduced.

 

1st character (year recorded)

 

P: 1963/R: 1964/S: 1965/T: 1966/U: 1967/W: 1968/X: 1969/Z: 1970

(I have the other codes up to 1991 but I can’t be bothered to type those in

tonight. E-me if you need them.)

 

2nd character (label designation)

A: Grunt/B: TMI/C: Camden/D: Neon/E: Educational/F: Wooden Nickel/G: Groove/H:

Hugo & Luigi (1963-64), Chelsea (1972-73)/J: Children/K: Daybreak/L: Wheel/M:

George Jones Musicor masters (1972-73)/N: Various Artists/Promotional/P:

Popular/R: Red Seal/S: International/T: Gregar (1970-71) then Metromedia

(1972-73)/V: Victrola/W: Country & Western/X: Chart/Y: Calendar (later renamed

Kirshner)/Z: Colgems/1, 2: Readers’ Digest/3, 4: Custom (in-house disc

mastering)/5: Custom (outside disc mastering)

3rd character (size & speed)

A: master tape (also B, C)/K: 7" 45rpm/L: 7" 33rpm/P: 10" 33rpm/R: 12" 33prm

 

4th character (description)

A: stereo EP/B: mono EP/M: mono/S: stereo/T: quadrophonic/1: New York City

recording/2: Chicago recording (discontinued in 1973)/3: Hollywood recording/4:

Nashville recording/5: outside recording/6: foreign recording (?)

Edited March 16, 2014 by chalky

[chalky 12,146]

It may have been released in 1966 but it was recorded/mastered in 1965 according to the matrix SPKM-5126.  

[Guest Dave Turner]

from an Elvis page 

 

http://www.keithflynn.com/recording-sessions/matrix-numbers/matrixnumbersexplained.html

[boba 1,916]

Here is the copyright entry:

 

I'VE GOT TO GET MYSELF TOGETHER; w Kenny

Carter, m Nate Edmonds (Nathaniel

Edmonds) © Dixon & Stokes Music Co.;

29Nov65; EU913985.

 

the publishing matches neither record but another copyright for the RCA title doesn't show up. RCA messed up the credits. I don't know the story as to why.

[John Benson 295]

Mr Rimmers discography for Kenny Carter shows it at 1965:

RCA Victor 45-8841 - Gotta Get Myself Together / Showdown - 1965

 

Personally I prefer the other side - "Showdown" these days!

 

I've no idea on today's prices for them both though. 

[tlscapital 545]

may 1966 sounds about right with kenny carter and that rca catalogue number....spider signed with mgm  a couple of months later

Apparently Spyder had had a deal somehow with MGM with his 'stand by me' in june 1966 following the buzz with his then "à la mode" mocking tribute to all the big name artists interpreting 'stand by me'. Those MGM promos were all doubled 'A' sides and. Wich suggests that that the MGM executives were somehow in the betweens on "the what to do with this NEW HOT product". So after the HIT was confirmed a"rush" commercial  releases had to have a 'B'side but short of material they threw in 'you're good enough for me' that is actually not Spyder Turner but a Thelma recording by none other than Emmanuel Laskey (even though it is credited to ST !). By 1967 Spyder Turner had an LP and a second 45 'I can't make it anymore' taken from the LP just before closing down his deal with MGM.

Edited March 17, 2014 by tlscapital

[ady croasdell 2,749]

Fred Skau is not an error, it was Kenny's song writing alias so his was the original

[boba 1,916]

Fred Skau is not an error, it was Kenny's song writing alias so his was the original

 

fine, it just doesn't credit both writers

[ady croasdell 2,749]

I'll dig out the RCA session sheet, I'm certain Nat Edmunds isn't on it so did he dive in for his cut as a payment for getting the song re-recorded?

[tlscapital 545]

Thanks all for those infos. Now, does this makes sense ?

 

As Chalky said first, the 'S' in the matrix indicate a year (1965) for the recording session.

 

Then Bob's copyright entry as 29 november 1965 with Carter and Edmonds as writers indicate again it was a 1965 project and with both credits AS credited on Spyder Turner 45 on Good Time records.

 

So it could have been issued anytime late 1965 by Spyder Turner and apparently at the same time Kenny Carter was already aiming at bigger things with RCA and cut his own version before releasing it at a later date (may 1966) but making his own credits (Fred Skau is Kenny himself, thanks for that Ady) for god knows what credential reasons.

 

Could it be a story like that ?

[chalky 12,146]

Thanks all for those infos. Now, does this makes sense ?

 

As Chalky said first, the 'S' in the matrix indicate a year (1965) for the recording session.

 

Then Bob's copyright entry as 29 november 1965 with Carter and Edmonds as writers indicate again it was a 1965 project and with both credits AS credited on Spyder Turner 45 on Good Time records.

 

So it could have been issued anytime late 1965 by Spyder Turner and apparently at the same time Kenny Carter was already aiming at bigger things with RCA and cut his own version before releasing it at a later date (may 1966) but making his own credits (Fred Skau is Kenny himself, thanks for that Ady) for god knows what credential reasons.

 

Could it be a story like that ?

 

The top and bottom of this is Spyder doesn't remember when he recorded this, he did say when he was about 17, it could have been quite easily 18 and just before he signed with MGM.  He hasn't even bothered with his Northern tracks until this year so no reason to remember something that was not a hit for him and probably quickly forgotten.  He sang none on his northern related tracks the two previous visits here, we were all seriously disappointed with his appearance last year.

 

My guess is Spyder's recording came after hearing Carter's take and a 1966 release.  What are the matrix details of the good time release, any clues to when it was pressed?  Until we know for sure it is guess work and speculation and you would have to go with Kenny Carter laying this down first. 

[dave pinch 1,656]

The fact that Kenny wrote it means nothing tho... Look at garland green/ Shelley fisher... Or even jerry butlers ordinary Joe..i think they were both recorded in late 65 but spider came out 1st wth Kenny being in the can for a few months before release

[bo diddley 446]

The top and bottom of this is Spyder doesn't remember when he recorded this, he did say when he was about 17, it could have been quite easily 18 and just before he signed with MGM.  He hasn't even bothered with his Northern tracks until this year so no reason to remember something that was not a hit for him and probably quickly forgotten.  He sang none on his northern related tracks the two previous visits here, we were all seriously disappointed with his appearance last year.

 

My guess is Spyder's recording came after hearing Carter's take and a 1966 release.  What are the matrix details of the good time release, any clues to when it was pressed?  Until we know for sure it is guess work and speculation and you would have to go with Kenny Carter laying this down first. 

The only matrix markings on the GOODTIME/Spider Turner record are scratched in as follows: -     G - 1019 - A

  

 There is also a very, very feint, L W

 

Cheers

Kev Bod

Edited March 17, 2014 by bo diddley

[boba 1,916]

one thing that is sort of meaningful though is that if kenny really did write it for RCA himself and publish it under the other publisher there would have been a separate copyright entry for sure. the one i posted was the only one i found in the books.

[Peter99 10,119]

Interesting thread

 

 

Peter

[chalky 12,146]

The fact that Kenny wrote it means nothing tho... Look at garland green/ Shelley fisher... Or even jerry butlers ordinary Joe..i think they were both recorded in late 65 but spider came out 1st wth Kenny being in the can for a few months before release

I realise that Dave and am well aware of people writing for others and recording it themselves later.  But i would have thought with Kenny being in a recording contract at the time for RCA he would have been more interested in recording his own material rather than writing for others?  Maybe Ady can shed more light on it?