Jump to content

The Carstairs Repros


Recommended Posts

Hi there

 

I'm currently off-loading a bunch of repros on Discos and I've come across a Carstairs one. On the website it states there are two reissues, one seemingly official and one unofficial. However, both of these state that STERLING is scratched into the run-out groove.

 

My copy has CAR 001A and CAR 1B scratched on the respective sides and not STERLING.

 

Does anyone know what issue / year this is from? I know that it's not an expensive record but I just want to list it correctly!

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks

Jon

Link to comment
Social source share

  • 6 years later...
On 30/03/2015 at 21:25, Fuzzyjonclay said:

Hi there

 

I'm currently off-loading a bunch of repros on Discos and I've come across a Carstairs one. On the website it states there are two reissues, one seemingly official and one unofficial. However, both of these state that STERLING is scratched into the run-out groove.

 

My copy has CAR 001A and CAR 1B scratched on the respective sides and not STERLING.

 

Does anyone know what issue / year this is from? I know that it's not an expensive record but I just want to list it correctly!

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks

Jon

Hi Jon, 

Did you find anything out about this one as I have one too?! 

Link to comment
Social source share

The only true original of this record is the Red Coach GRT Chess distributed White Demo.  This has the word Sterling machine stamped into the runout groove.  

The 1970's demo bootlegs have the word Sterling scratched into the run out groove. 

The Pink issues are a 1000 copy legal press made later for export to the UK and the 1970's Northern Soul scene by Gene Redd Jr, the label owner. Wigan record bar was swomped with these in 75/76.

The copy you describe with the word "Record" written in a straight line, instead of the usual curved shape is a recent/modern repress of the white demo.

Edited by Solidsoul
  • Up vote 1
Link to comment
Social source share

12 hours ago, Bleep said:

how can it be a repress when it was never issued

It was pressed (or issued if you will) as white promo first in 1973. These were released under the Chess/GRT group who shut down very soon after. This Carstairs single then never got to see a commercial release.

When original label owner Gene Redd got to build up his own Red Coach label soon after and just alongside his Red Lite one he re-released the Carstairs on a pink stocker with instant guaranteed sales within the UK.

Link to comment
Social source share

5 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

It was pressed (or issued if you will) as white promo first in 1973. These were released under the Chess/GRT group who shut down very soon after. This Carstairs single then never got to see a commercial release.

When original label owner Gene Redd got to build up his own Red Coach label soon after and just alongside his Red Lite one he re-released the Carstairs on a pink stocker with instant guaranteed sales within the UK.

I think or I heard he was asked to press the Carstairs not a case of him rebuilding after the failure of Chess/GRT, by John Anderson maybe?

22 hours ago, D9 KTF said:

The only true original of this record is the Red Coach White Demo.  This has the word Sterling machine stamped into the runout groove.  

The 1970's demo bootlegs have the word Sterling scratched into the run out groove.  The Pink issues are legal represses made for the 1970's Northern Soul scene demand by Gene Redd Jr, the label owner.

The copy you describe with the word "Record" written in a straight line, instead of the usual curved shape is a recent/modern repress of the white demo.

The pink ones are issues, not reissues, done for commercial reasons just like any other release.  It never had a commercial release so cannot be a reissue. 

  • Up vote 1
Link to comment
Social source share

1 minute ago, Chalky said:

I think or I heard he was asked to press the Carstairs not a case of him rebuilding after the failure of Chess/GRT, by John Anderson maybe?

OK but it's still Gene who re-released the Carstairs on his then own Red Coach label.

Label that kept on releasing new materials afterward all the same. 

Link to comment
Social source share

So therefore the later pink issues as sold on here as "originals" 10yrs ago were actually re-issues?! Surely a "commercial release" is irrevelant. A 1973 original is surely just that?

Edited by Ruisoul
  • Up vote 1
Link to comment
Social source share

42 minutes ago, Ruisoul said:

So therefore the later pink issues as sold on here as "originals" 10yrs ago were actually re-issues?! Surely a "commercial release" is irrevelant. A 1973 original is surely just that?

No I agree with Chalky it was "issued" with a pink label because of the demand of the record which had never been released, just available as a promo, a reissue would have to have been even later.

 

  • Up vote 2
Link to comment
Social source share

2 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

No I agree with Chalky it was "issued" with a pink label because of the demand of the record which had never been released, just available as a promo, a reissue would have to have been even later.

 

All the pink issues were done for the Northern Soul UK market in the mid 70's. They were all shipped to the UK. That's why only white demos turn up in the USA! The pink issues don't turn up in the States, unless maybe one found it's way back across!

Edited by D9 KTF
  • Up vote 1
Link to comment
Social source share

On 21/05/2021 at 10:23, D9 KTF said:

All the pink issues were done for the Northern Soul UK market in the mid 70's. They were all shipped to the UK. That's why only white demos turn up in the USA! The pink issues don't turn up in the States, unless maybe one found it's way back across!

It was issued for commercial gain for the very first time on the usual pink label imprint.  The fact they were all sold to the UK is irrelevant, they are not reissues. 

  • Up vote 3
Link to comment
Social source share

33 minutes ago, Dean Rudland said:

Chess /GRT closing down happened towards the end of 1975 so wasn't the reason that the Carstairs wasn't released in 1973.

 

You're right. My bad. I should have said that at that point the Chess/GRT distribution deal for Red Coach felt through and the record then didn't pass beyond the promo stage.

Link to comment
Social source share

7 hours ago, Chalky said:

It was issued for commercial gain for the very first time on the usual pink label imprint.  The fact they were all sold to the UK is irrelevant, they are not reissues. 

They were not issued for the USA market/public, so not part of the original release/promotion. They are a contract product press for a specialised market in the UK. I would only think of the demos as originals because they were part of the original promotion for the release in the USA to the general public.

Edited by D9 KTF
Link to comment
Social source share


My definition of USA original release, is demo and issue that is meant for the promotion or sale to the USA general public of a certain song. This can include being picked up for national release by a big label, as long as it's all within the initial release timescale. The pink issue Carstairs does not fit into that, because it was not for the USA  general public.

Edited by D9 KTF
Link to comment
Social source share

IMHO the for who or where is trivial in regard of the pressing qualifying matter. Although every stories behind such or such pressing is always most interesting for real. The label, the copyright ownership, the source like the 'reel tape' or the masters and all that comes into the process to manufacture the finished product are more relevant as to what to call the re-released record. And evidently the time gap between them pressings.

With all the insights we now know from Ian Levine's broadcast air-play audition while in Miami back in 1973 and his desperation in that record quest. To John Anderson managing to dig up 3 radio copies somewhere in 1974 giving it the exposure on British soil at the Mecca making it one phenomenal northern soul record there an then before finally being re-issued on Gene Redd independent Red Coach label somewhere in 1975.

All that makes this pink styrene pressing certainly a second issue or why not a re-issue if one prefers. Although for me the time gap between the two releases is not big enough to make it a re-issue as such. The fact that the record was re-released through Gene Redd in America makes it an 'import' in the proper sense of the word. In the end I'd call that a second or later issue. Like any re-release made to supply a public demand wherever.

  • Up vote 1
Link to comment
Social source share

Rick Coopers very informative article has just confirmed what I have been saying all along. The pink issues of the Carstairs are not USA release originals, but a special legal 1000 press copy order for the UK Northern Scene. 

If the Northern Soul scene had never happened, only the Sterling stamped White Demos would exist of the Carstairs!

Edited by D9 KTF
Link to comment
Social source share

5 hours ago, Rick Cooper said:

I've posted the story of the Carstairs pink issue on here quite a few years ago but it may be worth repeating with some extra background info even if many people already know most of it.

 There were a few labels that we didn't , or couldn't , order direct so had to use a company called Price Rite Records in Island Park N.Y. I still have a business card from the owner Larry Sonin so I can be sure about this. As more 70s records were getting played I started ordering them from Price Rite even though I had no idea if they could get them. Some I recall are Oscar Perry titles on Perri Tone, Nasco singles, Earl Connelly, Danny Reed and Triumphs-Strange. All these would be in quantities of 500 to 1000 copies. On one order I simply wrote Red Coach RC 802 x 1000 not expecting to get any. It would usually take 6 or 7 weeks before orders would arrive in the UK with no prior knowledge of which titles Price Rite had got.

Larry at Price Rite never told me anything about how he got the order. I assume he just phoned Red Coach who having already paid for the recording costs and an advance to the Carstairs were only too pleased to press up a thousand. I should think Red Coach would have been aware that the order was for the UK or they might have tried to push it in the US. 

 

 

 

S.jpg

  • Up vote 3
Link to comment
Social source share

Get involved with Soul Source

Add your comments now

Join Soul Source

A free & easy soul music affair!

Join Soul Source now!

Log in to Soul Source

Jump right back in!

Log in now!


×
×
  • Create New...