I saw John Manships quote t'other day on the current auction of Salvation (this record has it's own thread ;-))

If John's estimate of the number of vinyl soul junkies is true then we maybe need to have a reality check and start buying up the sounds we've had our eyes on for ages but just not bothered to buy? I sill regret being offered £20 for Jeanette and being too tight to pay...

Anyway on the Salvation sale John says (and don't confuse me with any politics it ain't my thing) :

"...few on this vibrant scene fully realize just how heavily populated with collectors it really is..So when multiples briefly turn up it does not mean a jot, when potentially 100,000 worldwide buyers are out there, eager and waiting..

Robert Thomas is currently enjoying unprecedented popularity with a guesstimate of *1000’s of collectors longing for ownership*..Northern Soul dancefloor crammers always spark that effect, so where does the value stop? When so many are clambering for ownership. ‘“You Can’t Buck The Market” especially when the buyers outstrip supply by 10000 fold.."

Thoughts? I didn't realise so many were buying up the vinyl.

Edited May 26, 20177 yr by Shufflin

I read the blurb on jm's auction and thought the same as you......potentially 100,000, then again potentially no where near......nearly 12,000 on here but how many actually collect????....interesting thread, thank you for posting...Rob

100.000 maybe but only a fraction will be interested in Robert Thomas and an even smaller minority stupid enough to pay the ridiculous price it is fetching.  There is a copy for sale somewhere on a weekly basis.  The popularity of the 45 is UK driven, simply because of the popularity of the Cresa Watson release.

Not 100,000. Maybe 12-15,000 but no way of being precise. Obviously anyone who DJ's. The few thousand hard-core 60's and 70's survivors who've been involved for decades. The few thousand in Europe and the hundreds in Japan, Oz and of course the USA. A few dozen in Canada. A few more thousand recent converts, mainly in the UK. Talking Northern 45 collectors in the main, although there are of course other genres to gather. A typical three figure eBay item might have 25 bids but just 10 bidders, largely due to continued long-term interest rather than overwhelming demand from armies of rabid collectors. John should use the sales figures of his Price Guides to judge the number of really serious collectors out there, then deduct a figure for the number bought by record store owners, many of whom have no interest in collecting records. Whatever the figure, the collecting scene thrives yet still remains slightly underground and a mystery to the masses.

A few years ago i got 50p for the wade flemons boot of jeanette  on ebay a few yrs later it sells for £60 collectors or just plain idiots make your mind up? i guess demand but wtf

Loads and loads. Not all necessarily serious collectors but record buyers none the less. 

 

We're all only guessing, but the 100,000 presumably comes from John, but I have also heard he has 39,000+ customers on his database alone. But that will include people no longer active I would have thought, and of course the many casuals. There are plenty also suffering from with retinovinyl disease  (the types who slowly paw through every record box, looking intensively at each record but rarely if ever buying anything). Hard core collectors that buy regularly / semi regularly well under 10,000 WW is my guess. But it is just that a guess.

 

How many members does soul source have? and how many of them are collectors would be a good start 😬 could someone set up a poll on here ?I not no how to do it 

10 hours ago, givemesoul said:

A few years ago i got 50p for the wade flemons boot of jeanette  on ebay a few yrs later it sells for £60 collectors or just plain idiots make your mind up? i guess demand but wtf

plain idiots

I have tried stopping collecting vinyl but it isn't an easy addiction to shake off, even after the wife left me.  

12 hours ago, givemesoul said:

A few years ago i got 50p for the wade flemons boot of jeanette  on ebay a few yrs later it sells for £60 collectors or just plain idiots make your mind up? i guess demand but wtf

real collectors don't buy bootlegs. 

17 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Not 100,000. Maybe 12-15,000 but no way of being precise. Obviously anyone who DJ's. The few thousand hard-core 60's and 70's survivors who've been involved for decades. The few thousand in Europe and the hundreds in Japan, Oz and of course the USA. A few dozen in Canada. A few more thousand recent converts, mainly in the UK. Talking Northern 45 collectors in the main, although there are of course other genres to gather. A typical three figure eBay item might have 25 bids but just 10 bidders, largely due to continued long-term interest rather than overwhelming demand from armies of rabid collectors. John should use the sales figures of his Price Guides to judge the number of really serious collectors out there, then deduct a figure for the number bought by record store owners, many of whom have no interest in collecting records. Whatever the figure, the collecting scene thrives yet still remains slightly underground and a mystery to the masses.

That's looking at it from a record collector perspective. Time it by 10 for newcomers who have no interest in OVO but like the music and go out for a good time. 

35 minutes ago, Goldsoul said:

That's looking at it from a record collector perspective. Time it by 10 for newcomers who have no interest in OVO but like the music and go out for a good time. 

Yep, that's vinyl collectors of all hues, US originals/test pressings/reissues/boots etc. Sure, there are plenty of newcomers and returnees to the soul scene, but I suspect only a small proportion buy records.

3 hours ago, Steve G said:

real collectors don't buy bootlegs. 

Sometimes they do...by accident. When I got back into record buying in the early 90's, I would buy from a weekly list put out by a northern dealer. After John Manship published his bootleg guide, I found I had bought plenty of bootlegs in the belief they were originals eg Sam and Kitty, Spyders, Malibus, Eddie Regan to name but a few.

Don't forget, there's plenty of good tunes only available on carvers and bootlegs

6 hours ago, baz1 said:

How many members does soul source have? and how many of them are collectors would be a good start 😬 could someone set up a poll on here ?I not no how to do it 

I remember a survey poll sort of similar for SS was done a few years ago by Mike? Don't think the question of whether members collect vinyl was asked though.

Edited May 27, 20177 yr by Windlesoul

4 hours ago, Steve G said:

real collectors don't buy bootlegs. 

Or reissues😀

2 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Yep, that's vinyl collectors of all hues, US originals/test pressings/reissues/boots etc. Sure, there are plenty of newcomers and returnees to the soul scene, but I suspect only a small proportion buy records.

Spot on Frankie, most of the regulars that come along to Soul gigs I do, I can only think of two fella's who actually buy the records. 

22 hours ago, shufflin said:

Anyway on the Salvation sale John says (and don't confuse me with any politics it ain't my thing) :

"...few on this vibrant scene fully realize just how heavily populated with collectors it really is..So when multiples briefly turn up it does not mean a jot, when potentially 100,000 worldwide buyers are out there, eager and waiting..

Robert Thomas is currently enjoying unprecedented popularity with a guesstimate of *1000’s of collectors longing for ownership*..Northern Soul dancefloor crammers always spark that effect, so where does the value stop? When so many are clambering for ownership. ‘“You Can’t Buck The Market” especially when the buyers outstrip supply by 10000 fold.."

Thoughts? I didn't realise so many were buying up the vinyl.

That's sales talk!  He wants to sell records!   I would guess the number of serious Northern Soul original 45 record buyers would be about 10,000.  Maybe less!

 

 

Edited May 27, 20177 yr by Guest

20 minutes ago, solidsoul said:

That's sales talk!  He wants to sell records!   I would guess the number of serious Northern Soul original 45 record buyers would be about 10,000.  Maybe less!

 

 

"the number of serious Northern Soul original 45 record buyers would be about 10,000" - so that is 10,000 actively chasing vinyl? probably explains the rise in values then? That's quite a big number if you think about it, given the rarity of the records

On 2017-5-26 at 21:22, shufflin said:

"...few on this vibrant scene fully realize just how heavily populated with collectors it really is..So when multiples briefly turn up it does not mean a jot, when potentially 100,000 worldwide buyers are out there, eager and waiting..

Robert Thomas is currently enjoying unprecedented popularity with a guesstimate of *1000’s of collectors longing for ownership*..Northern Soul dancefloor crammers always spark that effect, so where does the value stop? When so many are clambering for ownership. ‘“You Can’t Buck The Market” especially when the buyers outstrip supply by 10000 fold.."

Thoughts? I didn't realise so many were buying up the vinyl.

"Potentially"  ........ says it all. As somebody has already said It's just sales talk. Link a common record with a potential 100000 buyers & hope that there's two idiots to bid against each other.

1 minute ago, SHSDave said:

"Potentially"  ........ says it all. As somebody has already said It's just sales talk. Link a common record with a potential 100000 buyers & hope that there's two idiots to bid against each other.

so there's only two of us then, that's a relief

all nonsence..

 

2 hours ago, ZoomSoulBlue said:

pah! why the assumption its a man thing ?!

 

A total sales pitch by Mr Manship about a record that is not rare but in demand .When the market changes this particular tune will be a cheapie once more .I would think serious collectors of northern number less than 5,000 worldwide .The word serious important here . 

 

Lots of active collectors in USA.

Absolutely agreed .but most general soul funk Latin etc that buy northern as well .i am always stunned how good some of the US guys collections are .Then again a little more accessible for those guys 

Used to love buying vinyl always loved vinyl always will but l'd be buggered if I'd pay the stupid prices being asked today don't believe the hype just embrace the music   don't let the oneupmanshipers  get you down  unless your a DJ of course 🎶🎶🎶🎶

1 hour ago, Richard Free said:

Absolutely agreed .but most general soul funk Latin etc that buy northern as well .i am always stunned how good some of the US guys collections are .Then again a little more accessible for those guys 

Hi Richard

Most US collectors buy Group Soul, Sweet Soul etc, there are some Northern collectors but they are in the minority, you are right, some of the Sweet Soul, Group Harmony collections over there are fantastic, the market for that stuff is quite expensive but very vibrant

Kev

22 hours ago, kev cane said:

Hi Richard

Most US collectors buy Group Soul, Sweet Soul etc, there are some Northern collectors but they are in the minority, you are right, some of the Sweet Soul, Group Harmony collections over there are fantastic, the market for that stuff is quite expensive but very vibrant

Kev

Even a few kids collecting over their .Which I think is great.