In my manic manner to set the record straight to ease my little worried mind as to what, where and if possible why I now try to set the chronology of this sole recording little wonder band with their 'please stay' iconic (overplayed) sound.

Looking closer at it I now see that no one on Discogs or 45Cat came with factual hints like radio charts or proofs like with new releases reviews for the Despenza release to attest as I'd have thought it to be prior to the Wand. Anyone knows ?

The Despenza releases do get a 1966 release date on 45Cat and 1968 on Discogs for 'ballpark's' sake. Then on 45Cat there's this ; Overcome Pub. Co. Inc. (BMI), 627 East 33rd Street, Chicago (1968 listing - imprint owned by Jerry Butler).

Although the Wand is evidently dating March or April 1967 shows the Overcome Music / Flomar Music co-publishing rights. Could the Overcome publishing rights have been bought later in 1968 by Jerry Butler to free it from the Wand chain ?

Then could the March 1967 Wand release actually be the first release ? With a deal that went sour after poor "promotion" with Wand's Commercial and Artistry Directors then rather lost in the shuffle with few co-Produced ventures commercial failures...

Desmi Co-Production being one with this very Wand release. Then once liberated by legal bound from their contract Barry Despenza finally released it trice on his Despenza label. Or was one of the Despenza release actually predating the Wand ?

FWIW the Traits 'some day some way' on Contact dating from November 1966 at least according to one radio chart.also had few re-releases with continuous growing demand likely giving Barry Despenza a necessary spotlight for commercial success.

Edited October 26, 20231 yr by Tlscapital

Steve G will give you the Wand rundown ... but till he answers ........

Barry Despenza ran his 2 labels in 1966/67. He then got a contract with ABC in Chicago, working with the likes of Wally Roker & others. In 1968 he signed Tyrone Davis to a deal with ABC and cut a number of tracks on him (incl "Can I Change My Mind" -- original version). He must have known his time at ABC was coming to an end as he then took Tyrone Davis to DAKAR, got him a deal there & recut "Can I Change My Mind". The Dakar version became a big hit in Dec 68. 

I guess Despenza was out in LA with Wally Roker & Monk Higgins in 68/69 as that's when Roker & Higgins were working together for Canyon Records (Roker's label). Soul Clock was another assoc label. They cut the likes of Irma Thomas for Canyon and had also signed Rudy Love to the label a while earlier (late 68?). Rudy had been convinced to sign with Canyon by the teaming of Roker / Higgins / Despenza who were (at the time) celebrating a big hit on Tyrone Davis -- which must have been around Xmas 1968. They convinced Rudy to sign with lots of BS about how they were a 'hit team' & would get him hits -- BUT REALLY they just wanted his songs to use on other of their acts.

Roker & Higgins stayed in LA but I guess Despenza headed back to Chicago to mastermind Tyrone Davis's career. He soon re-signed the Traits, renaming them Center Stage, and cutting them for his Dispo label (Donny Hathaway working with him on their tracks). He then went on to get them a deal with RCA.

So I'd say the Ivories on Despenza (& the Traits 45) were released ahead of him signing with ABC in Dec 67.

Edited October 22, 20231 yr by Roburt

The Traits Contact 45 dating of Nov 67 would seem to fit as it may have been that release that convinced ABC to sign Despenza to work for them in Dec 67. Boba interviewed the Traits / Center Stage on his SITTING IN THE PARK slot & that interview is still up on the net ... so they probably had lots to say about Despenza. 

Edited October 22, 20231 yr by Roburt

OK ,thanks for all that Roburt. Sure the recording is 1967 as even if tone of the Despenza release predates the Wand , it must have been short after (March 1967) while it was still 'HOT' climbing the charts. A bit like the Earl Harrison on ABS, then Garrison and then through there on Wand (although a flop on Wand again) all released simultaneously in a row... Now indeed if Steve G has insight on the Wand that might help a lot indeed.

Edited October 22, 20231 yr by Tlscapital

1 hour ago, Roburt said:

The Traits Contact 45 dating of Nov 67 would seem to fit as it may have been that release that convinced ABC to sign Despenza to work for them in Dec 67.  

Yes exactly. That's why I quoted that fabulous Traits 45 and the 'spolight' it brought on Barry Despenza's label and potential allowing to encounter new opportunities outside of its usual local Chicagp perimeters by November 1967. Just before Tyrone's on ABC (hat's off 4 that).

And then maybe so even to cash back on the missed opportunity due to bad, poor and / or nonchalant promotion with the Wand missed target by relaunching he Ivories on Despenza. Did the Jerry Butler acquisition of the 'Overcome Publishing' allowed him to do that ?

All of that likely just before or after his fantastic job with Tyrone at ABC in December 1968 (as the Ivories buzz seem to have worked some locally seing 3 different releases) and before the launch to fame of Tyrone Davis on Willie Henderson Dakar's new label in June 1968.

Edited October 22, 20231 yr by Tlscapital

This is the only entry I can find for copyright registration

PLEASE STAY; w & m Thomas Dorsey. g Overcome Pub. Co.. Inc.; l8Jul66; EUQ'+agiS-

 

4 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

This is the only entry I can find for copyright registration

PLEASE STAY; w & m Thomas Dorsey. g Overcome Pub. Co.. Inc.; l8Jul66; EUQ'+agiS-

 

Great though. Every little factual bit is helpful at this stage. This could mean that the 'small' block fonts Despenza logo press must date some time around that time.

If we still agree that this press out of the 3 Despenza was pressed first that is. FIWIW this idea is mostly based on John Manship's theory and I didn't try to seek much into that harder yet..

Then likely by March 1967 it was picked up on Wand (9 months later ?) and then even later in 1968 it would have been repressed on the large block fonts logo and last on the 'italic' Despenza fonts logo.

On 22/10/2023 at 00:01, Tlscapital said:

 

FWIW the Traits 'some day some way' on Contact dating from November 1967 at least according to one radio chart.also had few re-releases with continuous growing demand giving Barry Despenza a necessary spotlight with this little commercial success.

  I don't know where the Nov.1967 release date came from- "Someday, Someway' was  around in November  of 1966 ( See #27)

 

Edited October 26, 20231 yr by The Yank

Oops you're right Roburt my bad. Now corrected. Thanks for that. What a lovely chart selection FWIW. truly. Full of goodies that I dearly love.

Still in the whole picture it does participates in the Barry Despenza ascension whole out of 'the darkness' and into the 'spotlight' in the Music Industry.

Edited October 26, 20231 yr by Tlscapital

OK, so we would have this Despenza 470 by the Ivorys released somewhere between July 1966 up to anywhere early 1967.

Then came the Wand deal for national promotion and distribution but it just didn't go far there after it's release in March 1967.

Hypothetically came this re-releases on Despenza 12266 pressed again by Barry himself somewhere in 1968 to cash in back on the Wand biz mess up. Locally it seems to have got some action at least going by the few but worn some copies found when they are.

 

This is all hypothetical going by the label specifications too as some Chicago labels started to get those fonts and typos by 1968. For example the Soul Majestics on Chicago Music Bag for an early example I can think off. These were used up to the early / mid 7T's.

The most 'desired' design (mine as manies anyway) but most likely last in line too. Hailing from the same pressing plant as above but seemingly a 1970 or 1971 press I believe. Matching others like the Center Stages on Dispo (Barry Despenza's too) or the Brothers of Soul 'dream' on Shock featuring those 'mixing up 'in your face' fonts and typos to very catchy effect IMO...

 

Edited October 29, 20231 yr by Tlscapital

Don't know if it adds anything, but in the 25 Feb 1967 issue of Record World it is mentioned that Pete Garris (of Garrison Records and Wand/Scepter) has "made a deal [...] for the Chicago smash, ''Please Stay''".

22 hours ago, Sebastian said:

Don't know if it adds anything, but in the 25 Feb 1967 issue of Record World it is mentioned that Pete Garris (of Garrison Records and Wand/Scepter) has "made a deal [...] for the Chicago smash, ''Please Stay''"

No but all that consolidate facts is welcome. The interesting 'inside' story if ever in there yet undisclosed if it can ever be is the fact that Earl Smith is Jerry Butler's bother in law. That I didn't know.

Jerry Butler who seemingly got hold of the Copyright by acquisition of the 'Overcome Publishing Co.' by July 18 1968. Was that a legal necessary step for a re-release on Despenza after the Wand deal ?

Edited October 27, 20231 yr by Tlscapital

Blackpoolsoul

on here

Can help with this detective stuff.

 

Edited October 26, 20231 yr by Hippo

16 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

OK, so we would have this Despenza 470 by the Ivories released somewhere between July 1966 up to anywhere early 1967.

Then came the Wand deal for national promotion and distribution but it just didn't go far there after it's release in March 1967.

Hypothetically came this re-releases on Despenza 12266 pressed again by Barry himself somewhere in 1968 to cash in back on the Wand biz mess up. Locally it seems to have got some action at least going by the few but worn some copies found when they are.

 

This is all hypothetical going by the label specifications too as some Chicago labels started to get those fonts and typos by 1968. For example the Soul Majestics on Chicago Music Bag for an early example I can think off. These were used up to the early / mid 7T's.

The most 'desired' design (mine as manies anyway) but most likely last in line too. Hailing from the same pressing plant as above but seemingly a 1970 or 1971 press I believe. Matching others like the Center Stages on Dispo (Barry Despenza's too) or the Brothers of Soul 'dream' on Shock featuring those 'mixing up 'in your face' fonts and typos to very catchy effect IMO...

 

I got the Ivorys on the early label font/design in late 1966, so this post has the  order correct, as I also remember the later Despenza issues' designs coming in 1968 or 69, and again at the beginning of the 1970s, after its Wand run, whose issue I didn't see sold or promoted, in Chicago record shops, but only found later in thrift stores or discount store record stock dump-offs. 

10 hours ago, Sebastian said:

Don't know if it adds anything, but in the 25 Feb 1967 issue of Record World it is mentioned that Pete Garris (of Garrison Records and Wand/Scepter) has "made a deal [...] for the Chicago smash, ''Please Stay''".

Garris was in charge of daily operations of both Wand, and his own, Garrison Records (a Wand subsidiary).  So, he may have signed the deal before the decision was made as to whether or not it was going to be released on Wand or Garrison.  But, I doubt that it was first slated for Garrison and later changed to Wand.  It had previously sold very well in Chicagoland, so I think they intended it for Wand from the start, to give it the best chance (promotional push) all over USA, whereas Garrison had less ability to push records outside of The Northeast, and Great Lakes Area (despite both labels being distributed by Scepter-Wand's distributors all across the nation).

With regarding dating Despenza releases, I always thought the number "12266" was the biggest clue, December 2nd 1966, a fair few labels /pressing plants where there isnt a defined label number use the mastering date as a reference, also I think its hard to date by label layout or typeface alone, as individual plants had stock layouts they might use for many years. 

35 minutes ago, Tony Smith said:

With regarding dating Despenza releases, I always thought the number "12266" was the biggest clue, December 2nd 1966, a fair few labels /pressing plants where there isnt a defined label number use the mastering date as a reference, also I think its hard to date by label layout or typeface alone, as individual plants had stock layouts they might use for many years. 

 

12266 is the mastering number and can be found in the run-out grooves on the so called "470" release as well.

18 minutes ago, Sebastian said:

 

12266 is the mastering number and can be found in the run-out grooves on the so called "470" release as well.

Indeed, that was my point the mastering number is also the date it was done.

Edited October 27, 20231 yr by Tony Smith

5 hours ago, Tony Smith said:

With regarding dating Despenza releases, I always thought the number "12266" was the biggest clue, December 2nd 1966, a fair few labels /pressing plants where there isnt a defined label number use the mastering date as a reference, also I think its hard to date by label layout or typeface alone, as individual plants had stock layouts they might use for many years. 

Thanks for bringing up the matrix / catalog numbering 'clue' Tony. Didn't see that yet... Making it worth considering that the date of the recording was indeed December the 2nd of 1966. Allowing us to believe the first Despenza release to follow shortly, to make its small buzz locally and to seal a deal with Wand thereafter in March 1967.

For pressing plants to have pre-printed labels in quantity is true only for big or major labels. Agreeing to rely only on labels to set dates can indeed be hazardous. But in this case for a small label's sole release for likely a humble run of pressings where one can clearly see that the whole credits were printed at the same time with the logo it's fine.

As for the small block supposedly the first press (confirmed by witness back then Robbk to be seen first in local record stores) similarity with other late 1966 and early 1967 small Chicago presses like Willie Cager on Contact (a Barry's Despenza label) or Marshal & Chi Lites on Daran / Daren is more than safe to assume it is from '66 / '67.

As for the two following re-releases on Despenza they are evidently coming out of the same pressing plant but were printed on different papers and feature different layouts and logos. Implying necessary different runs of releases and dates. Finally the similarities with the other late 1970 and early 1971 Chicago presses coincidence seems very unlikely.

Edited October 27, 20231 yr by Tlscapital

CREATING A TREND: THE TOM DORSEY STORY.

 

The mid 60’s Chicago vocal group, The Trends were responsible for a fine body of work that never achieved the measure of success it richly deserved at the time of its creation. Although later well documented the group has always been credited with an all male line up with no mention of its husband and wife founding members Carolyn and Tom Dorsey. The article below will now hopefully right this long overdue wrong.

 

Lucius Thomas Dorsey was born August 31, 1937, the oldest of five sons raised by their parents Lucius Sr and his wife Sara. The struggling Dorsey family later migrated north from their Augusta, Georgia home in 1943 to relocate on the west side of Chicago, Illinois. Tom was a sickly child who struggled with an inconsistent memory due to a serious head concussion he received at the age of 12. An average student in school with his favorite subjects being Science and Art, Tom was a victim of bullying that used his reasoning and inquisitiveness to better understand why and how life worked to earn more respect and success for himself as no adult at that time was there with needed help. Feeling confused, isolated and stressed while knowing the law, Tom dropped out of High School at 17. He joined the U.S. Air Force in 1954 to be trained as a radar operator for the next 4 year and credits his military life for giving him the discipline and mental maturity to develop an appreciation for education. Gaining a GED Diploma, he began in college to study psychology to help others with mental issues like his. It was during this time in school that he met his wonderful wife of 58 years, Carolyn! Even though attaining top grades in his chosen subject, Tom’s curiosity caused him to conclude that psychology was being used by corporations and politicians to ’control’ the public for selfish gain and not to help as promoted, again causing him to quit school!

Although with no formal music background, Tom taught himself how to play the guitar to begin constructing songs for fun. Initially working part-time for the U.S Postal Service while studying psychology, Tom’s first live performance was with a fellow part-time postal worker and budding songsmith and performer Bobby Miller. Miller and Tom made a pact that whoever landed a recording contract first would bring the other with him. Miller got his break first with the 60’s dance crazy hit “Uncle Willie Time,” (Constellation-111) but reneged on the agreement. Miller went on to become a Chess Records Staff writer composing numerous songs for the mighty Dell’s such as “Stay In My Corner” and wrote Gene Chandler’s outing “Bet You Never Thought” (Constellation -166). Tom’s chance meeting with another fellow part-time postal worker during this time would eventually lead him into the recording world of popular music. This second postal worker was Emmett Garner Jr. who was a member of a live performing singing group who told Tom that he was good enough to make a few bucks on the weekends playing guitar behind Emmett’s group. After agreeing, the group rehearsed at Tom’s home on the Westside of Chicago each weekend. One group member, Eddie Dunn, was without personal transportation which caused him to hitch a ride home with Emmett after rehearsals. Emmett, a lead and background singer, had hopes to audition for a solo recording contract in the future and knowing that Tom was attempting to compose original songs, he suggested they could both benefit from Emmett learning and singing Tom’s material for the audition.

Because Emmett was somewhat nervous about his anticipated solo audition, he asked Tom, Carolyn and Eddie (Dunn) to vocally accompany him with what he became comfortable hearing from them during his rehearsals each week. Emmett eventually gained an audition with Eddie Thomas (then Chicago’s promoter for ABC-Paramount record label and manager of the Impressions) with the hope of being signed to a record label. It was after Emmett’s failed audition with Eddie Thomas (who did so out of not being interested in another group sound) that the idea to pursue a contract together with Tom, Carolyn and Eddie Dunn at several Chicago based record labels was born!

By 1963 Eddie Thomas and The Impressions were at the height of their powers following their #1 hit “It’s All Right” for ABC. They followed this up in 1964 with hit popular singles “Talking About My Baby”, “I’m So Proud” and “Keep On Pushing” culminating with their “Keep On Pushing” album reaching number 8 in the pop charts. The arranger on these recordings was Johnny Pate. Pate a successful jazz bassist (with his own Trio during the late 1950’s) had come to prominence three months before as the arranger for Carl Davis at Okeh records. This occurred when he was contracted to arrange in place of his out of town mentor Riley Hampton on a recording that spawned Major Lance’s hit record “The Monkey Time,” thus introducing Pate to Chicago as its newest hot arranger on the strength of Lance’s hit! ABC opened an office in Chicago after contracting Johnny Pate as their new A&R Director for the Midwest that included among other artists, Curtis Mayfield and The Impressions! Tom Dorsey had introduced his groups’ sound to Johnny Pate prior to Pate’s popularity when Pate was working in a local record store to supplement his income as a musician.

Tom Dorsey’s group (to be named “The Trends” later) live auditioned, but also included a two song tape recording that was left with Chess Records which got their attention. Chess offered a contract that required Tom’s group to tape record their mixture of original ballad and blues to determine which ones would be used for their session. The only request by Tom was that Johnny Pate arrange the music which Chess agreed to and gave Pate the original two song tape to listen to. The next day Tom received a phone call from Pate declaring that he had a signed cheque in hand from Mercury Records to produce Tom’s group as soon as their contract was signed! The group decided to sign with Mercury Records’ sure offer over Chess’ promise and was in the studio by the end of the week!

Mercury Records released The Trends on their subsidiary label Smash with two 45 singles of “Dance With Me Baby/ (To Be) Happy Enough” (Smash 1914) followed by “Get Something Going/That’s The Way The Story Goes” (Smash 1933).

Unknown to The Trends, Pate also informed Mercury Records that ABC planned to sign The Trends once they were released from their one year contract causing Mercury Records to not promote their records and gave them an early contract release. Needless to say, The Trends did finally arrive at ABC in early 1965 with their first 45 release of the Tom Dorsey penned “If You Don’t Dig The Blues/Not Too Old To Cry” (ABC10731) in the fall of the same year. Tom although signed to ABC as a recording artist also continued to work as an independent songwriter and publisher. The Trends second 45 outing came during the following year with the Tom Dorsey penned “Gonna Have To Show You” backed with a joint composition between Tom and Earl Smith (who happened to be Jerry Butler’s brother-in-law) titled “A Night For Love.” (ABC 10817) This association would also be prevalent in another independent 45 release by a local teenage group the ‘Ivory’s’. At the time Johnny Pate had a secretary working for him by the name of Jan Despenza whose brother Barry operated three independent Chicago labels, Contact, Despenza and Dispo. A subsequent introduction would lead to, two of Tom Dorsey’s songs “Please Stay” and “I’m In A Groove” being recorded and released on the Despenza label. The co-producer on the project being the aforementioned Earl Smith, The Ivory’s did also provide some backing vocals on some Jerry Butler recording sessions before their parents pulled the plug on their burgeoning recording career feeling that it was interfering with their school work. The Ivory’s 45 was later signed to the national distributed Wand label of which Tom had no idea about! The Trends third ABC release came in 1967 again with two Tom Dorsey compositions “No One There/That’s How I Like It” (ABC-10881). This was the group’s last release to feature Tom’s wife Carolyn who left the group due to being pregnant with the couple’s first child.

The Trends briefly tried working with a female replacement singer on several live shows, but didn’t include her on future recording sessions. Continuing as a male trio for a little while longer with Tom’s last performance with the group in a live show in Gary, Indiana where The Trends performed as one supporting act behind featured performer Major Lance.

 For The Trends next 45 release of 1967 “Check My Tears/Don’t Drop Out Of School” (ABC-10944) Emmett and Eddie brought in two members from their original group that they had originally performed with, Ralph O’Neill and Jerome (Jerry) Johnson (later of The Notations on Gemigo and The Channel 3 on Daker). The group’s third 45 release of 1967 was the Tom Dorsey penned song “I Never Knew How Good I Had It” backed with “Thanks For A Little Lovin” (ABC-10993). Two subsequent Trend’s 45’s followed in 1968, the Van McCoy penned “The Big Parade/The soul Clap” (ABC-11091) and a final Tom Dorsey composition for the group “You Sure Know How To Hurt A Guy/Not Another Day” (ABC-11150) with The group breaking up for good not long after. As good as the group’s records were they never secured that elusive hit, although further belated recognition did arrive in the UK and beyond when The Trends body of work found favor within the Northern Soul Scene.

Throughout the Trends recording adventure Tom had continued to work for the U.S Postal Service. He learned the mechanics of the music industry while signed as a recording artist to ABC, but he remained an independent songwriter keeping control of his songs and started his own publishing company, Rascal Music, BMI. Controlling 32 songs recorded by various artists which he still receives royalties on to this day, he earned a platinum award when Erykha Badu sampled Maurice Jackson’s “Lucky Fellow” on her two million selling album “Baduizm”. Tom’s songwriting credits can be found on a plethora of Chicago artist’s recordings besides the Trend’s. Tom’s close friendship with Johnny Pate would also lead to Tom being considered as Pate’s choice to replace him when Pate was promoted to ABC’s New York headquarters, a position Tom turned down because he and his wife Carolyn agreed that a healthier and happier balance was needed between their family and the music finance related stress! They cancelled their active involvement in the music industry with Tom working full time with the US Postal Service.

A further career and life change would follow when at age 35, Tom felt unaccomplished. Together he and Carolyn agreed for him to quit the Postal Service and use his G.I Bill benefits to attend the School of the Art Institute of Chicago initially to secure a degree in painting while she financially supported the family. But during his first semester courses, he was strongly attracted to photography causing him to not take any painting courses before earning a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree in photography! Tom developed his own eye-hand coordination technique to alter and enhance color photographs before today’s computers and image altering Photoshop. This new found skill secured Tom a job at a prestigious non-minority photographic studio that allowed him to learn their approach to the camera portrait business, which Tom used as his business model to start ‘Beautiful Memories By Dorsey’ (aka Camera Portraiture by Dorsey) with each print being embossed with the gold Dorsey logo which was officially registered. Their venture into photographing black families in their homes exclusively exploded from word-of-mouth advertising! In 1977 following Tom’s continuing sinus infections from Chicago’s dirty air, the Dorsey Family reluctantly relocated to Atlanta, Georgia. After joining Atlanta’s Chamber of Commerce, Tom taught photography in Clark College’s Art Department for 1977-78 to learn more about how Atlanta worked. Atlanta families did not think like Chicagoans and business did not take off as expected even with costly advertising and marketing thereby causing Carolyn to again pay the bills with a secretarial position at BellSouth.

Tom fanned the fire for business, but began to question his worth as a photographer trying to support his wife and their two children who were attending school in 7th and 9th grades! After hearing on the radio about a government School of Carpentry being offered, Tom enrolled for two days a week until completion that secured him a job as a full-time Carpenter apprentice! The contractor was supportive of Tom’s aspiration in photography and encouraged him to go take care of his few occasional photo assignments and then come on back to work. This worked fine for 6 months, but the photo shoots were beginning to cause too many interruptions even though not enough to support a full income, Tom shook hands with his employer for the last time and quit!

A blessing came in the form of a high school senior requesting cap & gown photos to replace those she was not satisfied with taken by the official school photographer. Tom’s ego only accepted the request because her family and his became friends years ago after Tom photographed her family when both lived in Chicago. The photo session went off well with Tom’s sensitivity to his subject and his use of the beautiful outdoors for a few casual poses. The day after the final order was delivered calls started coming in from students requesting what they saw from the photo shoot. All calls were graciously refused because of Tom’s lack of respect for the standard craft of cap and gown photography. Carolyn overheard Tom turning down these requests and insisted he change his attitude to not refuse any photo job he could perform because they needed the income! Tom reluctantly started scheduling appointments, but soon felt he should respect his clients with the best he knew how to do. Before long, word-of-mouth promotion by students from over 35 different high schools brought many high ranking parents and personalities both locally and from out of state to the Dorsey Studio! After 32 years of sharing their photographic sensitivity to the value of family togetherness with pride and dignity in both Chicago and Atlanta, the Dorsey’s retired in 2003!

Tom and Carolyn’s blessings received in life became blessings to be shared with others. Since 2007 they continued to work together to become known for the Brother 2 Brothers TEAM MENtoring Method of Atlanta, helping some confused mid-teen males in Atlanta Public Schools improve ethically to stay in school and graduate with respect and success in life! The program’s ethos is “it’s easier (and cheaper) to build strong children than to (attempt to) repair broken men” by Frederick Douglass.

 

In circa 2015, Tom’s recording industry past came back to haunt him when I contacted him about some of the songs owned by his publishing company, Rascal Music, which was administered by his wife Carolyn. Tom a very courteous and humble man was a little bemused by an Englishman’s inquisitiveness about the songs he wrote and recorded way back in the mid 60’s. But during our many subsequent conversations and growing friendship Tom mentioned a master tape from his last ever, self-produced recording session that he still had. The session was of four songs, two of which had been released at the time of their recording and two which had not. Sadly, Tom was to suddenly lose his beloved wife in 2017 which meant my idea had to be put on hold to allow Tom the necessary time to grieve and readjust. After a suitable time of mourning, we reignited the project, leading to the recent release of the two unissued Willie Williams songs of the delightfully soulful “Give It All I Got” backed with the funky, social conscience themed “Do You Understand” on the UK Soul Junction label, harking back to the days of Chicago Soul’s golden age.

 Blind, Chicago soul singer Willie Williams was first discovered performing in clubs around the Windy City. He was signed to ABC Records by their A&R Director for the Midwest, Johnny Pate. Pate chose one of Tom Dorsey’s songs for Willie to record as the flipside of his initial ABC release “Have You Ever Been Played For A Fool/With Al My Soul” (ABC-10860). Recorded in 1966, “With All My Soul” became a popular radio play of the time with Willie becoming known locally as Willie “Soul” Williams. Williams went on to record two further ABC 45’s under Pate’s guidance, “It Doesn’t Pay/Just Because” (1967) and “I’m Through With You/Strung Out” (1968). In 1969 Willie’s next 45 release again recorded in Chicago under Pate’s supervision was placed with another major label RCA, although credited as a GWP Production (Gerrard W. Purcell). Both sides of this RCA release are two excellent Tom Dorsey penned songs “Just To Be With You backed with “Name It”. Throughout his career Williams worked the clubs with his own band led by his musical director, confidant and bassist Bradley (Brad) Bobo. Bobo featured on many recording sessions for other artists too notably the creation of the acclaimed Notations album on Curtis Mayfield’s Curtom subsidiary label, Gemigo. On The 22nd of December 1970 a recording session was held in RCA’s Studio B, on North Wacker Drive, Chicago with sound engineer Russ Vestuto. The session was arranged and financed by Tom Dorsey flush with song writing gratuities received from the three songs he had composed and contributed to the popular blue-eyed hit group The O’Kaysions “Girl Watcher ABC album. The results of this session yielded four Willie Williams songs. Tom provided the arrangements, Brad Bobo played bass, and Tom’s wife Carolyn joined he and Brad on backing vocals. The fruits of this session were offered to Chicago stalwart Eddie Thomas. Thomas picked up two of the songs for release on his Lakeside label. Eddie’s choices were “Must Mean Love” later renamed as “The Baa Baa Song” and “Psyched Out”, leaving the two other songs to mature like fine wine in the can. Williams now sadly deceased, in later life once the opportunities for a performing artist began to dwindle chose a different path, gaining a Doctor’s degree he became a College Lecturer. As previously mentioned, Tom too turned his back on the music industry and over the realms of time lost much of his musical memorabilia but luckily for us, he did hang on to the master tape of Willie’s session and so after a 50 year wait Willie’s songs have found the ears of an appreciative audience. N.B Two Willie Williams credited 45’s also appeared on the Gamma label which at the time of writing this article I’m unsure if they are the same Willie Williams in question, as there was also a renowned Chicago Blues artist of the same name.

 

The Tom Dorsey Song Book:

A Night For Love   The Trends   ABC -10817   (45)

Baa Baa Song (Must Mean Love)   Willie Williams   Lakeside-3100  (45)

Bad But Beautiful Bag   Cicero Blake   Tower-494   (45)

Blue Bird   believed to have been recorded by Geraldine hunt but not released.

(Come On) Let’s Get Something Going   The Trends   Smash -1933   (45)

Dance With Me Baby   The Trends   Smash -1914   (45)

Do You Understand   Willie Williams   Soul Junction -545   (45)

For Lovers Only   Geraldine Hunt   ABC -10859   (45)

Give It All I Got   Willie Williams   Soul Junction -545   (45)

Gonna Have To Show You   The Trends   ABC -10817   (45)

Hey, Hey, Girl   The Marvelows   ABC -11139   (45)

How Are You Fixed For Love   The Tams   ABC-664    (LP)   (Girl Watcher)

I Need A Change   Betty Everette   Uni-73048   (LP) (There’ll Come A Time)

I Never Knew How Good I Had It   The Trends   ABC -10993  (45)

If You Don’t Big The Blues   The Trends   ABC -10731

I’m In A Groove   The Ivory’s   Despenza -470   (45)

It’s Gotta Be Love   The Kittens   ABC-10835    (45)

Just To Be Loved By You   Willie Williams   RCA 47-9736  (45)

Love Butterfly believed to have been recorded by The Kittens but not released.

Love Machine   The Tams   ABC-11153 (45) & ABC-664 (LP)   (Girl Watcher)

My Baby’s Love   The Tams   ABC-664  LP   (Girl Watcher)

Name It   Willie Williams   RCA 47-9736   (45)

No One There   The Trends   ABC-10881   (45)

Not Too Old To Cry   The Trends   ABC-10731   (45)

Please Stay   The Ivory’s   Despenza-470   (45)

Psyched Out   Willie Williams   Lakeside-3100    (45)

So Much Better   Emmett Garner Jr   Maxwell -802   (45)

That’s How I Like It   The Trends   ABC-10881   (45)

That’s The Way The Story Goes   The Trends   Smash-1933   (45)

(To Be) Happy Enough   The Trends   Smash-1914   (45)

With All My Soul   Willie Williams   ABC-10860   (45)

You Sure Know How To Hurt A Guy   The Trends   ABC-11150   (45)

 

Words By: David Welding & Lucius Thomas Dorsey.

 

 

My acknowledgements to Tom and his late wife Carolyn for sharing their most cherished memories with me and also to the recently departed Emmett Gardner Jr. and Eddie Thomas may they rest in peace.

 

 

18 hours ago, Robbk said:

Garris was in charge of daily operations of both Wand, and his own, Garrison Records (a Wand subsidiary).  So, he may have signed the deal before the decision was made as to whether or not it was going to be released on Wand or Garrison.  But, I doubt that it was first slated for Garrison and later changed to Wand.  It had previously sold very well in Chicagoland, so I think they intended it for Wand from the start, to give it the best chance (promotional push) all over USA, whereas Garrison had less ability to push records outside of The Northeast, and Great Lakes Area (despite both labels being distributed by Scepter-Wand's distributors all across the nation).

Just to clarify Robb, Pete Garris, although working at Scepter in promotions, was co-owner of Garrison with Sam Goff, another Scepter employee (married to Florence Greenberg's daughter), and the records on Garrison were (in theory) distributed by Scepter as you say, although clearly not very well after "Humphrey Stomp". The label was not owned by Scepter.  As we all know a number of Garrison 45s never got beyond the promo stage. The label was designed primarily for licensing what was described at the time as "independently produced masters". We will never know for sure whether The Ivories 45 (as it appeared on Wand) was destined for Wand or whether Garris had originally thought about it as a release for Garrison. We just cannot say for sure as we don't know what was in his mind. 

Garris used the Scepter promo staff for distributing records on Garrison (albeit not very well), so there would be no real difference whether it came out on Wand or Garrison and "Humphrey Stomp" continued to sell well after its national "Garrison" release. The evidence for this came from Jimmy Raye and is in my Scepter book when Raye complained about promotion being pulled on his record by Scepter to concentrate on working "Alfie". Did you get a copy of my book?

With regard to the 12266 number I agree with Tony Smith. Assuming it was mastered early in December 1966, its release would have been after that date. Wand had the record out by March 1967. When the other two presses were done is not known by me, but presumably they used the same plates (hence the 12266 number reappears).

 

Edited October 27, 20231 yr by Steve G

Thanks Steve, for that clarification.  I had thought that Garrison Records was half-owned by Garris and half by one of the Scepter-Wand partners, or the Scepter Wand Firm, similar to Motown' Rich Records (half owned by Berry Gordy and the other half by Rev. James Hendrix (and was treated like a Motown subsidiary).  

4 hours ago, Louise said:

...The Trends second 45 outing came during the following year with the Tom Dorsey penned “Gonna Have To Show You” backed with a joint composition between Tom and Earl Smith (who happened to be Jerry Butler’s brother-in-law) titled “A Night For Love.” (ABC 10817) This association would also be prevalent in another independent 45 release by a local teenage group the ‘Ivory’s’. At the time Johnny Pate had a secretary working for him by the name of Jan Despenza whose brother Barry operated three independent Chicago labels, Contact, Despenza and Dispo. A subsequent introduction would lead to, two of Tom Dorsey’s songs “Please Stay” and “I’m In A Groove” being recorded and released on the Despenza label. The co-producer on the project being the aforementioned Earl Smith, The Ivory’s did also provide some backing vocals on some Jerry Butler recording sessions before their parents pulled the plug on their burgeoning recording career feeling that it was interfering with their school work...

Well thanks a lot for all that. Fab stuffs. Will have to re-read as there's a lot there. But this bit here mostly at first at least answers my quest about the nature of involvement or relation with Jerry Butler in this 'stellar galaxy' of gifted people who all joined together managed to give us the iconic ivories sole record 'please stay' . Not yet how come or why exactly Jerry Butler became the owner of the Overcome Publishing Co. but that I'm afraid we'll never know.

On 27/10/2023 at 15:31, Tony Smith said:

Indeed, that was my point the mastering number is also the date it was done.

Looking at this again a year+ later this ofcourse makes perfect sense, especially when placed next to 45s on the Despenza affiliated Contact label:

CONTACT 501 - The (Orig.) Traits - Need Love - matrix 112266 = Nov/22/1966

CONTACT 502 - Anita Anderson - Little Bit Longer - matrix 112466 = Nov/24/1966

DESPENZA 470 - Ivorys - Please Stay - matrix 12266 = Dec/2/1966

That's 100% when these 45s were mastered/plated.

And then Wand makes the deal for the Ivorys 45 in February 1967.

20 minutes ago, Sebastian said:

Looking at this again a year+ later this ofcourse makes perfect sense, especially when placed next to 45s on the Despenza affiliated Contact label:

CONTACT 501 - The (Orig.) Traits - Need Love - matrix 112266 = Nov/22/1966

CONTACT 502 - Anita Anderson - Little Bit Longer - matrix 112466 = Nov/24/1966

DESPENZA 470 - Ivorys - Please Stay - matrix 12266 = Dec/2/1966

That's 100% when these 45s were mastered/plated.

And then Wand makes the deal for the Ivorys 45 in February 1967.

So where do the other 2 despenza variations fit in?

1 hour ago, Sebastian said:

Looking at this again a year+ later this ofcourse makes perfect sense, especially when placed next to 45s on the Despenza affiliated Contact label:

CONTACT 501 - The (Orig.) Traits - Need Love - matrix 112266 = Nov/22/1966

CONTACT 502 - Anita Anderson - Little Bit Longer - matrix 112466 = Nov/24/1966

DESPENZA 470 - Ivorys - Please Stay - matrix 12266 = Dec/2/1966

That's 100% when these 45s were mastered/plated.

And then Wand makes the deal for the Ivorys 45 in February 1967.

That's good info about the matrix 12266 being the date.

But the later Despenza represses with the slightly different label designs also used this matrix. 

Edited February 27Feb 27 by Solidsoul

7 hours ago, Dobber said:

So where do the other 2 despenza variations fit in?

As far as I am aware it goes like this:-

First is the Despenza release in 1966 with the small block print, Despenza 470.

Then the Wand release.

Then Despenza with the vertical big print 1968.

Then the Despenza with the italic print around 1970.

 

Edited February 27Feb 27 by Solidsoul

So From 66 to 69/70 They really had faith in the tune,I must admit in terms of northern soul it has something unique about it and certainly in my top 10! As a possible condender in the pop charts of the 60’s Im not so sure?

 

All very interesting reading,many thanks ,sorry but  ( i may of missed ) i have the wand copy is there any difference in sound quality on these to the despenza release due to never having owned the later ???

3 hours ago, Steviehay said:

All very interesting reading,many thanks ,sorry but  ( i may of missed ) i have the wand copy is there any difference in sound quality on these to the despenza release due to never having owned the later ???

Are the wand issues styrene? My despenza (italics) is vinyl and mint,it plays the way I would expect,however I wonder if the wand copy’s are styrene do they play with a bit more punch?

1 hour ago, Dobber said:

Are the wand issues styrene? My despenza (italics) is vinyl and mint,it plays the way I would expect,however I wonder if the wand copy’s are styrene do they play with a bit more punch?

Mine is vinyl unsure about others ? 

33 minutes ago, Steviehay said:

Mine is vinyl unsure about others ? 

Maybe the sound on despenza and wand are pretty much the same then.

Always wondered if the name change on the wand copy’s was an error or on purpose?