Don't know if there has been a thread on this subject before or not, but I though it might be a good subject for the forum members to get their teeth into.

I've always wondered what happened to the Soul gods that made the records that we all know and love.

As we all know, many of the artistes probably recorded one maybe 2 records which were flops on their release in the states the UK or anywhere else, and I'm sure that after the records flopped, some of the artists went back to their day jobs. But what were their day jobs?, or what happened to them afterwards?

For instance i heard that Johnny Bragg (They're talking about me) ended up in prison or actually wrote the song in prison? anyone know? Did any end up as road sweepers or toilet cleaners? or even become businessmen or women in a completely different area instead of music?

I'm sure that some of the soul efficianados on here will have a few stories for us.

Steve

Edited September 23, 200816 yr by steveluigi

Don't know if there has been a thread on this subject before or not, but I though it might be a good subject for the forum members to get their teeth into.

I've always wondered what happened to the Soul gods that made the records that we all know and love.

As we all know, many of the artistes probably recorded one maybe 2 records which were flops on their release in the states the UK or anywhere else, and I'm sure that after the records flopped, some of the artists went back to their day jobs. But what were their day jobs?, or what happened to them afterwards?

For instance i heard that Johnny Bragg (They're talking about me) ended up in prison or actually wrote the song in prison? anyone know? Did any end up as road sweepers or toilet cleaners? or even become businessmen or women in a completely different area instead of music?

I'm sure that some of the soul efficianados on here will have a few stories for us.

Steve

I have talked to many artists and most people I know got regular middle class jobs. Back in the 60s there were many jobs available -- even if you didn't have a college education, you could earn a decent living. In Chicago many people worked for the CTA or the Post Office or the city, but there were also many local factory / production type jobs also. Some people went onto college. A few people got messed up on drugs or alcohol and didn't go anywhere but most people I talked to went on to lead regular lives.

Wasn't Johnny Bragg in for multiple rape - or was that one of my urban myths?

Kind of puts an ironic edge on 'They're Talking About Me' if so.

There is such a beauty to black America when it comes to music.

I'm glad I am not a black American if only for the reason that if I were, I would not have the splendour of black America in my life.

OK I'll go to bed.

Wasn't Johnny Bragg in for multiple rape - or was that one of my urban myths?

Kind of puts an ironic edge on 'They're Talking About Me' if so.

From memory that is absolutely correct!

Andy.

Tony Clarke, of "Landslide" and "The Entertainer" and "Wrong Man" fame, was a soul hero who by all accounts was anything but god-like in real life, and suffered a fate that many would say he deserved.

Not much detail though is known on Tony Clarke's life.

Perhaps our Soul Source resident Chicago Soul expert Bob (Boba) can give us all the full inside story, eh Bob !

From memory that is absolutely correct!

Andy.

Edited September 24, 200816 yr by Malc Burton

From memory that is absolutely correct!

Andy.

Bill Withers is an interesting case in point regarding having a " normal " work position .......

Withers worked as an assembler for several different companies , including the Douglas Aircraft Corporation , in the Los Angeles area , while recording demo tapes with his own money that he shopped around , and performed with local musicians at night . He kept his job as an assembler after he debuted on the music scene in February 1971 with the single " Ain't No Sunshine " and the album " Just As I Am " , but was shortly after laid off by Weber Aircraft Corporation , which as a result , prompted him to further a full time - and subsequently - sucessful career im music ........

His final album recording / release was 1985's " Watching You , Watching Me ", which featured the U.S. Top 40 R&B single " Oh Yeah " . He hired noted music lawyer Bernard Fischbach of Fischbach and Fischbach, and got out of his contract with Columbia and retired from recording , although he continued performing live sporadically , he retired from constant touring in 1989 , with his last live performance being at / for the birthday party of billionaire Tom Gores of Platinum Equity Partners in Santa Monica in 2004 . After retiring , Withers focused on parenting to his two children .........

Malc Burton

...and I don't blame him.

Wasn't Johnny Bragg in for multiple rape - or was that one of my urban myths?

Kind of puts an ironic edge on 'They're Talking About Me' if so.

From memory that is absolutely correct!

Andy.

If you call sex with a white girl rape ??,used to let him out to sing/record and wrote "just walkin' in the rain".

Found this;

https://www.answers.com/topic/johnny-bragg

Edited September 24, 200816 yr by ken

Don't know if there has been a thread on this subject before or not, but I though it might be a good subject for the forum members to get their teeth into.

I've always wondered what happened to the Soul gods that made the records that we all know and love.

As we all know, many of the artistes probably recorded one maybe 2 records which were flops on their release in the states the UK or anywhere else, and I'm sure that after the records flopped, some of the artists went back to their day jobs. But what were their day jobs?, or what happened to them afterwards?

For instance i heard that Johnny Bragg (They're talking about me) ended up in prison or actually wrote the song in prison? anyone know? Did any end up as road sweepers or toilet cleaners? or even become businessmen or women in a completely different area instead of music?

I'm sure that some of the soul efficianados on here will have a few stories for us.

Steve

Here's an article I posted some time ago that Alan Senior wrote in echoes way back when about the life of Syng McGowan....

Interesting particulary Bobos points ,quite a few still record and gig also particulary in the southern states!Sam Dees is a tremendous example of talent continually maturing!lee Jones is now a truck driver in Texas,got a dvd of Al Coney [need to give you it back mate]of Herman Hitson performing in Chicago and so on and so forth!

Would be good to hear some success stories also!!!

BAZ A

lee Jones is now a truck driver in Texas,

BAZ A

Thought all or most of the Masqueraders were basically truckers and have been for some time

Kell Osborne after leaving the music business mid 90's went driving buses and more lately a chauffeur.

Somebody makes pies, I can't remember who.It will come to me

Ritchie Pitts is a University Lecturer

I thought Johnny Bragg (RIP) found his woman had been playing around and sorted her out.

The song 'talking about me' was his way of dealing with everybody else knowing about her cheating apart from him, therefore making him a laughing stock.

Billy Arnell's tough girl was supposed to have been a self funded project that in the end bombed and made him skint.

At the LA 2004 EVENT, Gwen Owens was selling her record collection to make a few $$$, Bobby Paris was shelf stacking down the road at a Walmart type shop, Patrice Holloway (RIP) was in a drug Rehab clinic and too ashamed to attend, Some artists wanted a donation to have your picture taken with them, so again must have been down on their luck.

All in all, I think its pure coincidence that any of the records made famous on our scene, especially the rarer ones, ever got a second chance and that there are still lots of 'heroes' unaware of the status they would hold if they were contacted.

Ed

Edited September 24, 200816 yr by tomangoes

From the New York Times....Johnny Bragg Obituary

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/03/arts/music/03bragg.html

Johnny Bragg, 79, a Prisonaires Singer, Dies

By PHIL SWEETLAND

Published: September 3, 2004

ASHVILLE, Sept. 2 - Johnny Bragg, the leader of the Prisonaires, a singing group of Tennessee State Penitentiary inmates whose R & B music helped start Sam Phillips's Sun Records and influenced Elvis Presley, died here on Wednesday. He was 79.

The cause was cancer, his daughter, Misti Bragg, told The Associated Press.

The Prisonaires quintet became standard-bearers for Gov. Frank Clement's controversial prison-reform program, which emphasized rehabilitation. In the summer of 1953, under heavy guard, the singers traveled from their Nashville prison to Memphis to record at Mr. Phillips's fledgling Sun Records. The session yielded the mournful hit "Just Walkin' in the Rain," of which Mr. Bragg was the co-writer, and a feature story in a local newspaper.

"It was the song that put Sun Records on the map, and very likely the item that captured the attention of Elvis Presley as he read about the studio, the label, and painstaking Sam Phillips," the biographer Peter Guralnick wrote in "Last Train to Memphis: The Rise of Elvis Presley."

That same summer, Presley made his first demonstration recordings at Sun. In 1961 he visited Mr. Bragg in prison.

"The Prisonaires were pioneers in that they were among the first R & B vocal groups to record and have hit records released in the South," Michael Gray of the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum said on Thursday.

Mr. Bragg, born John Henry Bragg, was convicted of rape in 1943. He always denied the charges, and Governor Clement commuted his sentence in 1959. He soon returned to prison on a parole violation and spent time in and out of incarceration until 1977.

Besides his daughter, Mr. Bragg's survivors include two grandchildren. His wife, Gail Green Bragg, died in 1977.

************************************************************

And from the associated press when he died.......

From the Associated Press this evening:

NASHVILLE, Tenn. Johnny Bragg, a singer-songwriter who co-wrote the song "Just Walkin' in the Rain" as a state prison inmate, has died in Nashville. He was 79 when he died of cancer around 12:30 a.m. on September 1 at the Imperial Manor Convalescent Center in Madison, Tennessee. Johnny's daughter, Misti, said he was 79. Bragg was the lead singer for the Prisonaires, a vocal group he formed while in the Tennessee State Penitentiary in the 1950s. Written by Bragg and another inmate, Robert Riley, "Just Walkin' in the Rain" was a pop hit for Johnnie Ray in 1956. Bragg was pardoned in 1959, but he landed back in prison a couple more times before leaving for good in 1977. Bragg served time on various charges including rape and shoplifting. Funeral arrangements have not yet been made, but will be handled by Smith Brothers (615-726-1476).

Edited September 24, 200816 yr by chalky

Somebody makes pies, I can't remember who.It will come to me

Ritchie Pitts is a University Lecturer

Ah remembered, not pies-speciality sausages George Mcgregor

And Kat from the Velvelettes works in a hardware store in Detroit

Edited September 24, 200816 yr by Reg

More Johnny Bragg...

https://www.answers.com/topic/johnny-bragg

Thought all or most of the Masqueraders were basically truckers and have been for some time

Steve,

Me, Kev and Tats saw them in Memphis a couple of months ago. They perform two nights a week at a Rib joint at the top of Beale Street.

We had a great night with them. Just an Incredible performance. They even sang "Do You Love Me Baby" for me and the lads!

They told us about Lee, trucking in Texas... but they didn't say that they were truckers too!

Sean

Don't know if there has been a thread on this subject before or not, but I though it might be a good subject for the forum members to get their teeth into. I've always wondered what happened to the Soul gods that made the records that we all know and love. As we all know, many of the artistes probably recorded one maybe 2 records which were flops on their release in the states the UK or anywhere else, and I'm sure that after the records flopped, some of the artists went back to their day jobs. But what were their day jobs?, or what happened to them afterwards? Steve

The lead singer of the Tempos (Countdown here I come) only ever got paid the cab fare to and from the recording studio and worked at Lockheed at Burbank all his life.

Danny Austin of the Ad Libs works in a restuarant kitchen in New Jersey.

James Wright of the Spellbinders is in a re-hab house (and doing better than the last few years)

he lost his wife, son & job all in the space of a year and hit the sauce in a big way (but to his everlasting credit never went on welfare - far too proud for that)

Bobby Sheen became a big time crack addict and in the end nobody wanted to employ him, his behavour was so erratic.

The beautiful and very sexy Leola Jiles of The Apollas had a very serious car accident, cancer and a stroke and has become a recluse (do you blame her ?)

It's not all glitter and fame is it

Chris L

Chris L

Fascinating stuff this...keep em coming

Lenny

I believe Melvin Davis is a postman , Mike Terry was driving big trucks up to the late 90's before re - locating back to Detroit , think that's correct , Rob Moss can confirm .Best ,Eddie

Wow! thought this would be a good thread. This is facinating stuff and very thought provoking. I'll bet that most of the artists aren't even aware that some of their recordings are popular in the UK, and now worldwide, and that some of the records are worth Hundreds and sometimes thousands of £.

It's a shame that they can't see the fruit of their work. Wouldn't it be amazing to round up the ones that are alive and/or fit enough, and have a massive weekender or even weeker and have them all performing the tunes that we know and love? That would be the concert to end all concerts. I'd love just to see their faces when they saw the reaction of the crowds dancing and singing along to the tunes word for word. How amazing would that be?

Last year I went to see the amazing Kim Weston in Leeds performing an intimate concert. She was amazing. Even after her near death experience of being thrown into the air 20ft after being hit by a car, and the hospital having to literally sew her back together, she still put on a stunning performance. The poor girl tried her upmost to hit the high notes that she could in her younger days, and the crowd really appreciated it. Amazing that at over 70 years old, she still has the gumption and the bottle to get up and do her thing. NOW THAT'S PROFESSIONALISM. Amazing!!!

Steve.

Edited September 24, 200816 yr by steveluigi

Wow! thought this would be a good thread. This is facinating stuff and very thought provoking. I'll bet that most of the artists aren't even aware that some of their recordings are popular in the UK, and now worldwide, and that some of the records are worth Hundreds and sometimes thousands of £.

It's a shame that they can't see the fruit of their work. Wouldn't it be amazing to round up the ones that are alive and/or fit enough, and have a massive weekender or even weeker and have them all performing the tunes that we know and love? That would be the concert to end all concerts. I'd love just to see their faces when they saw the reaction of the crowds dancing and singing along to the tunes word for word. How amazing would that be?

Steve.

Good points Steve.

The paradox is that the records are, as you say, sometimes worth big money, however for all people involved at the time (singers, writers, producers, etc) the costs were more than the revenue so in fact they were money losers. Can't really expect record collectors to pay a commission on top of the purchase price and give to the artists, writers, producers, etc (even if you could find them).

When I win the Spanish lottery (last time was £110 million) I will get every NS artist, writer, arranger, producer to the UK and have a massive "meet & greet" (probably at a rebuilt Torch, Mecca or Casino ;-)

About 5 years ago I did something very much smaller, on my own, when I tracked down the Ad Libs, Chris Bartley & The Spellbinders and got them all together for a day in New Jersey, wonderful day.

The truth is the only money to be made in NS is with record trading and perhaps and I say "perhaps" with one or 2 promoters.

Chris L

Steve,

Me, Kev and Tats saw them in Memphis a couple of months ago. They perform two nights a week at a Rib joint at the top of Beale Street.

We had a great night with them. Just an Incredible performance. They even sang "Do You Love Me Baby" for me and the lads!

They told us about Lee, trucking in Texas... but they didn't say that they were truckers too!

Sean

Wow, what a record to hear live. Makes you wanna holla.

Ed

I guess minor singers are like minor sports people you have a short shelf life while in the bloom of youth, then reality hits home and you realise you have to get a normal job to support yourself, wife kids etc.

Wow! thought this would be a good thread. This is facinating stuff and very thought provoking. I'll bet that most of the artists aren't even aware that some of their recordings are popular in the UK, and now worldwide, and that some of the records are worth Hundreds and sometimes thousands of £.

It's a shame that they can't see the fruit of their work. Wouldn't it be amazing to round up the ones that are alive and/or fit enough, and have a massive weekender or even weeker and have them all performing the tunes that we know and love? That would be the concert to end all concerts. I'd love just to see their faces when they saw the reaction of the crowds dancing and singing along to the tunes word for word. How amazing would that be?

Last year I went to see the amazing Kim Weston in Leeds performing an intimate concert. She was amazing. Even after her near death experience of being thrown into the air 20ft after being hit by a car, and the hospital having to literally sew her back together, she still put on a stunning performance. The poor girl tried her upmost to hit the high notes that she could in her younger days, and the crowd really appreciated it. Amazing that at over 70 years old, she still has the gumption and the bottle to get up and do her thing. NOW THAT'S PROFESSIONALISM. Amazing!!!

Steve.

Kim Weston is an amazing lady - but incredibly down to earth .......

When I was involved with The Corner Pocket ( Mexborough ) , Kim play a date there during her tour last year , and prior to her performance , she came to do a sound check and rehearse ........

I was introduced to her by Richie Pitts , and when I asked her how she was , she replied " I feel like shit " ........

A soul icon , but underneath the image , just like you and me ............

Malc Burton

Yes Malc, thay are only human like us. but I wish I was responsible for making a tune that helped to change peoples lives. What a Buzz!!

Venetta Fields formally of the Ikettes lives here on the Gold Coast & makes a living as a singing tutor, Marcia Hines has lived in Australia since the 70's, apart from having a singing career she is a host on Australian Idol, she was on a flight we took last year, spotted our record boxes as we boarded & was completely stoked when told that 'You Gotta Let Go' was in one of the boxes.

KTF

Baz

Don't know if there has been a thread on this subject before or not, but I though it might be a good subject for the forum members to get their teeth into.

I've always wondered what happened to the Soul gods that made the records that we all know and love.

As we all know, many of the artistes probably recorded one maybe 2 records which were flops on their release in the states the UK or anywhere else, and I'm sure that after the records flopped, some of the artists went back to their day jobs. But what were their day jobs?, or what happened to them afterwards?

For instance i heard that Johnny Bragg (They're talking about me) ended up in prison or actually wrote the song in prison? anyone know? Did any end up as road sweepers or toilet cleaners? or even become businessmen or women in a completely different area instead of music?

I'm sure that some of the soul efficianados on here will have a few stories for us.

Steve

Venetta Fields formally of the Ikettes lives here on the Gold Coast & makes a living as a singing tutor, Marcia Hines has lived in Australia since the 70's, apart from having a singing career she is a host on Australian Idol, she was on a flight we took last year, spotted our record boxes as we boarded & was completely stoked when told that 'You Gotta Let Go' was in one of the boxes.

KTF

Baz

I was playing a compilation CD last night , which contained Charlie Gracie's " He'll Never Love You Like I Do " ........

I have stated in before , I know that I should not like the record , but I do : It is still a stormer , and evokes a period of time that resonates many memories , and after listening to the track several times , I decided to see what happened to Mr Gracie ......

It would appear that his career - still continuing - has been an illustrious one , especiall the part ( read below ) of his connection with Cameo Records ........

Charlie Gracie ( born Charles Anthony Graci on May 14, 1936 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania ) is an American rock pioneer and singer.

His father encouraged him to play the guitar , and Charlie's musical career started at the very early age of 14 , when he appeared on the Paul Whiteman television show .

Gracie performed at weddings , local restaurants , and parties , and on local radio and television . He also won many regional talent contests . The little money and prizes he received were turned over to his mother to help support the family .

The owner of Cadillac Records heard one of Charlie's early radio performances , and contacted the young musician and signed him to a contract . This association yielded the single , Boogie Woogie Blues backed with I'm Gonna Sit Right Down And Write Myself A Letter . The record led to Charlie's first appearance on Bob Horn's " American Bandstand " television program ( This was four years before Dick Clark became the host )

After cutting two more singles for Cadillac , Charlie moved on to 20th Century Records , where he put out another four sides . The discs he made embraced a wide variety of styles: jump blues, gospel , and country boogie with the influences of Big Joe Turner , B.B. King , Louis Jordan , Roy Acuff , and Hank Williams .

Between 1951 - 53 , Charlie Gracie was experimenting with many types of music , years before many rock heroes had ever set foot inside a recording studio .

By 1956 , Philadelphia had given birth to the new Cameo record label . Its founders , in search of a strong talent , signed Charlie later that year . With a $600 budget , this new union went into the studio to record a single that would forever change their lives . The record , Butterfly backed with Ninety Nine Ways . became a monster hit , reaching the number one position all across America . Charlie received a gold disc for the two million plus sales and became the first native Philadelphia rock star to achieve international success . Other substantial sellers followed : Fabulous , Wandering Eyes , and Cool Baby . The financial success of these hits bankrolled the Cameo label , which became a dominant force in the recording industry for several years .

Charlie's personal appearances grew until he performed and headlined some of the biggest venues of that time : Alan Freed's rock and roll shows at the Brooklyn Paramount , The Ed Sullivan Show , Dick Clark's " American Bandstand " and the 500 Club in Atlantic City . He appeared in the 1957 film Jamboree , and he toured with the likes of Chuck Berry , The Everly Brothers , Bo Diddley and his close friend, Eddie Cochran .

Charlie became only the second American rock and roller to bring this new art form to the British concert stage . His two extensive tours in 1957 and 58 , were topped off by headlining the Palladium and the Hippodrome in London . He played to packed houses and drew rave reviews . In the audiences, among Charlie's fans and admirers, were future rock greats: Graham Nash, members of the Beatles and Rolling Stones, Joe Cocker and Van Morrison . These performers and many other well - known acts have credited Charlie as an influence . George Harrison referred to Charlie's guitar technique as " brilliant " in a March 1996 interview with Billboard Magazine ; Paul McCartney invited Charlie to the premiere party of his 1999 album release which paid tribute to the early pioneers of rock music.

Charlie found himself somewhat miscast at Cameo . He moved on to other labels such as Coral , Roulette , Felsted , and Diamond , performing more of the R&B he preferred . Even if success slowed , Charlie continued to perform in clubs , theaters , and resorts , from the 60's through the 90's . He still enjoys a loyal following in Great Britain , Germany , Austria , Switzerland , France , and the Netherlands . Charlie is a devoted family man , married 40 plus years to his first and only wife , Joan . They have two children , a son and a daughter .

Charlie Gracie's pioneering contribution to the genre has been recognized by the Rockabilly Hall of Fame .

In August of 2007 , Charlie Gracie was honored as one of the most influential musicians and singers at an unveiling of an enormous mural painting at the original American Bandstand Studio in Philadelphia .

He still continues to perform in 2008 , and recently worked with rock and roll piano player Sean Gale .

Malc Burton

Edited September 28, 200816 yr by Malc Burton

Sid Barnes was working as a door attendant across the road from Oprah Winfrey's building before he came back into the limelight a few years ago. Not sure what the big man's up to now though.

M

x

Solomon Burke is still making fantastic soul music.