I'm a poet,

And l didn't know it,

But l sure do show it!

I'll go for the (Gene) Latter

Black tamla origin....well at first.Then cue all the west coast Wigan faves.White guys in garages.Uptempo white music.

Rare Soul.....no to be confused..nothing to do with Northern Soul.....anything apart from uptempo black music.... you are having a laugh now - are'nt you? .

So Roger Eagle didn't jack the twisted Wheel in because the kids were demanding uptempo tamla derivative dance music which formed the basis of the Northern Soul Scene.

So the northern soul scene wasn't an amphetamine upper drug based scene then.People crashed out on mogadon and heroin listening to blues and popcorn music until 6am.

Slow and midtempo were played all night at these northern soul venues.

Cal Tjader,Dynatones etc were played all night and were representative of a whole nighter.

The rare soul scene and the northern soul scenes are 2 different kettles of fish.The rare soulers condemn the northern scene of being backward and old fashioned and dismissing it as being oldies based.The "progressives" are condemned as playing crap doowop, rejects that were not good enough back in the day and not giving a toss about dancefloor reaction.

BTW I do like rare soul and R and B along with latin (but my latin is Jack Costanzo/Candido/Fania Allstars/Charlie/Eddie Palmieri/Wilson Simonal etc).Check out my threads on collecting british ......but don't try telling me AC Reed/Charles Sheffield/Eskew Reeder/Freddie Houston etc are NORTHERN SOUL... It seems to be a case of some people wanting to change the template.

Edited April 14, 201015 yr by wiggyflat

Well said Mace,good or bad music does it matter if its uptempo rhythm and soul,latin,popcorn?

Got to agree with others that this thread was obviously done on purpose to wind the r and b lovers of us on soul source.

Quite frankly Id never tell anyone what to listen to if they like it so frankly cant see the point of these pointless jabs at the r and b scene and this or that,if you want to listen to wigan oldies then good on you,if you want to listen to music that wouldnt sound out of place in a 70s porn movie then listen to modern.

Latin (go to a latin night)

Popcorn (go to a popcorn night)

R and B (go to a R and B night)

Ah here we go Wigan Oldies.....and modern (same arguments trotted out yet again).

Latin,Popcorn, R and B = A MOD NIGHT.....but why don't they call it a MOD NIGHT.Don't call it Progressive, Rare Soul,Northern Latin,Jazz nights.It is a MOD night.It isn't a jab either I like the music but don't call it NORTHERN SOUL.

Edited April 14, 201015 yr by wiggyflat

Right next time someone calls me an arsehole or a wan*** should l just leave it then? Nothing smug about my posts anyway...

Have you had a word with the members who are calling me obscene names or is that allowed......?

what do you expect to get when you post sh*te no thought posts slagging styles of music down

no good moaning about people getting wound up when you post wind up posts

I have never claimed to know anything about RNB....But you do and that is why l asked the question....

bollocks

dont give us that crap

no one asked you to post up such a sh*t stirring loaded question

your comments after demo exactly what you were after

so now you got the fuss you wanted why don't you just give it all a rest

but i also said that ,

i also said that "a newie became an "oldie" " and as i remmeber it the early 80s wasnt particulally well known for its 60s newies anymore than anything else although of course loads of 60s "newies" were first played then , i remmember a mixture

i also remmember "newies" being called "disco" in a derogatory way by the hard core oldies crowd and floors clearing to many late 70s , even in the early 80s EVEN to the carstairs, many years after it was first played

venues like rotherham was known for its "newies " ezzie , a term used THEN

packed in going around mid 75, ...............sarah, that why i never heard it i spose

Edited April 14, 201015 yr by ezzie brown

I like to call it 'early soul' , a quick example off top of head is : Good Rockin - Jnr Walker.... as far as im concerned this is a wonderful raw/gritty early 60's recording that ticks all the boxes. Sam Cooke, Harvey Fuqua, Berry Gordy, Ike Turner, etc etc were all churning it out in the 50's and still doin it in the 60's. the transitional period that changed the music we know into 'Soul' happened because it happened!

bands like The Yardbirds, Stones, Bluesbreakers (UK bands) took on the title of RnB. oddly enough, dancefloors still creak whilst Wynder K Frogg plays his organ , or Charlie Gracie does his best Elvis impression. its a broad spectrum which to this day has its' own charts in the states.

Uptempo soulful dance music of most era's will do me, however old it is

get off yer arses and enjoy it

oooops double post

Edited April 14, 201015 yr by parkash

so you're saying that the likes of Otis Lee and Carl Underwood were big on Mod & R&B scene before Northern? I bet it was more like the other way round.

Carl Underwood and Otis Lee were played on the Mod Scene in the very late 1980s / early 1990s .

I think that was before they became monster main room plays on the Soul scene, They were both of course played on the Soul scene at the time

but I generally feel that they were huge 45s on the Mod scene before they went really massive on the Soul Scene.

Records like Willie Jones - where's my money which has been Mod / RnB spin for years have crossed over into the big room in recent times.

All I am saying is give a bit of credit to the Mod / RnB / Popcorn crowd.

They have been turning up all sorts of interesting music for years IMO

And yes some of it goes back to the 50s and may not appeal to your average northern soul - but that just shows how diverse that scene can be IMO

M

Carl Underwood and Otis Lee were played on the Mod Scene in the very late 1980s / early 1990s .

I think that was before they became monster main room plays on the Soul scene, They were both of course played on the Soul scene at the time

but I generally feel that they were huge 45s on the Mod scene before they went really massive on the Soul Scene.

Records like Willie Jones - where's my money which has been Mod / RnB spin for years have crossed over into the big room in recent times.

All I am saying is give a bit of credit to the Mod / RnB / Popcorn crowd.

They have been turning up all sorts of interesting music for years IMO

And yes some of it goes back to the 50s and may not appeal to your average northern soul - but that just shows how diverse that scene can be IMO

M

Otis Lee and Carl Underwood both cover ups for Pat Brady (Lee Blackmore & Soul Searchers) and Roger Banks (Herbert Hunter c/u) respectively mid 80's on the northern scene.

I do give credit to both R&B scene and popcorn scene for introducing records to the Northern crowd but then again I like to see credit to the Northern DJ's when it's due

l wanted a comeback.....and find it insulting that you think l should stick to Free-Basing....Why should l? l;m on SS cos lm a Soul Fan...Flippin Heck!!

Well said Webby! People don't have to engage with this thread and those who feel 'wound up' by it need to take responsibility for their own feelings. Webby posed a question in typical Webby fashion. If this was in Freebasing maybe people would have been a bit more polite to him.

i can remember the carstairs being first played, and it was so differant to the rest of the playlists it was a groundbreaking tune., which as far as i remember was universaly liked and demanded .............sure i never heard the term "newie " applied to anything till i returned to the scene in the late 90s..........ez

I'm sure this is only going to muddy the waters,but i meant as a virtually new release Ezzie.

Well said Webby! People don't have to engage with this thread and those who feel 'wound up' by it need to take responsibility for their own feelings. Webby posed a question in typical Webby fashion. If this was in Freebasing maybe people would have been a bit more polite to him.

typical webby fashion

maybe that's the problem, typical 'webby' fashion may be ok for those who knock about in freebasing

so perhaps it should stay there

Well said Webby! People don't have to engage with this thread and those who feel 'wound up' by it need to take responsibility for their own feelings. Webby posed a question in typical Webby fashion. If this was in Freebasing maybe people would have been a bit more polite to him.

I agree,im not a fan of Webby's whats you favorite colour type topics , I think he meant it as a light hearted wind up ,and has been insulted by a few of the reply's,and that was wrong and should never have happened,shame on you

Bazza

oh i will and do "like" to

maybe its just that i started going to venues later than you (1980) and "we" saw it differently

but it must be a lot more confusing for people today who are just getting into it than it was for us , because there are so many more terms in use and different perceptions of what they mean

incidently re "crossover" , crossover is a term i heard used by punks in the late 70s , its a term used in many music circles not just northern . to me it means a type of sound or band that crosses over into into another genre other than its own eg - the talking heads - new wave and funk

Now i am intrigued.!!! Crossover used by punks?.Please fill me in on that period.

Talking Heads were probably called that by some half arsed American PR man trying to sell some records in the UK.Punk or New Wave -yes.

Sorry off topic.

I'm absolutely amazed to see this still going. It was obviously a blatent attempt by webby to get a reaction....and a reaction he has got. Hats off to ya webby, I didn't think people would rise to it

I wonder how blatent it would have to be for some to see it for what it is???

perhaps if he had posted something along the lines of, "Hey lads, have you heard 16 Tons by Tenessee Ernie Ford? its just right for the soul scene" - the response may have been different with people telling him they were not falling for his wind-ups

I'm a poet,

And l didn't know it,

But l sure do show it!

I'll go for the (Gene) Latter

Its all Rock And Roll Jim but not as we know it

so you're saying that the likes of Otis Lee and Carl Underwood were big on Mod & R&B scene before Northern? I bet it was more like the other way round.

Hi Chalky

i was deffo spinning Otis lee and all the other tunes id heard guy,keb ian clarke and ady spin at the 100 club Down in the London Mod clubs mid 80s

Sixties newies were what we were listening to and a lot of it would now be classed as rnb even though a lot of it was big city new york soul or latin influenced

Thank god for stafford.

Right im off to Sharon Jones

Al H

Hi Chalky

i was deffo spinning Otis lee and all the other tunes id heard guy,keb ian clarke and ady spin at the 100 club Down in the London Mod clubs mid 80s

Sixties newies were what we were listening to and a lot of it would now be classed as rnb even though a lot of it was big city new york soul or latin influenced

Thank god for stafford.

Right im off to Sharon Jones

Al H:thumbsup:

Hi Alan,

You are right in what you say I never heard the term R&B etc back then, it was simply Northern Soul, 60's Rare Soul or 60's newies depending on the promoter, but it was all under the same banner. The whole Stafford/100 Club era of the 80's had plenty of examples just like Carl Underwood, Otis Lee, AC Reed, Bud Harper etc etc and no one had a problem with records like these. It wasn't until 10 years or so ago when the real early/rocker type R&B (as Mace puts it) started to creep when it all became complicated and the friction started.

Enjoy Sharon Jones.

If Webby was mischief making, and some rose to the bait then more fool them, where I come from mischief making doesn't warrant 'wank*r' and 'areshole' type insults, I wouldn't expect those kind of insults if I had a dig at someones taste in music, maybe thats just me,

Well said Webby! People don't have to engage with this thread and those who feel 'wound up' by it need to take responsibility for their own feelings. Webby posed a question in typical Webby fashion. If this was in Freebasing maybe people would have been a bit more polite to him.

Well said nicki...i might not agree with the original post and he may be well shot down there is still no call for calling him an arsehole and wanker .

Edited April 14, 201015 yr by Rbman

It wasn't until 10 years or so ago when the real early/rocker type R&B (as Mace puts it)

I actually said Rockin'.......

Uptempo early R&B with dirty big sax breaks and the like.

These type of records shouldn't be played in Northern rooms, and as far as I'm aware, they generally never are.

There may be the odd few that slip the net, but you could say the same about every other genre of music that makes up the Northern scene ('Sister James' anyone?)

Trouble is, those who so readily dismiss R&B don't seem to be able to distinguish between those sort of tunes and a great fat slab of dancefloor dynamite such as J.T. Parker........so they dismiss it all.......unless it has been firmly stamped in some past decade with the Northern Soul seal of approval (Larry Davies 'Hurt so many times' and Ray Agee 'I'm losing again' are prime examples)

Why were such records accepted so easily back then?...maybe cus most people on the scene didn't have the huge hang-ups they have nowadays and DJs didn't spoonfeed the scene with the top 500 week in week out.

Edited April 14, 201015 yr by Mace

Ok first of all i have gotten myself into quite a little bit of trouble for airing MY views on what should should not be played at nighters and my general view on R n B. In another thread i dared to use the expression "real deal R n B" this was used to split the difference between known R n B artists and tracks that have been excepted as "northern Soul" E.G. Micky Champion/ Jimmy Robins/ A.C.Read/ etc... there are hundreds that are known as northern soul but sung by R n B artists. The fact is that all the R n B stuff that has crossed over and is known as mainstream northern soul has that one thing in common with all northern soul and thats the beat behind the music.

This is where it all gets a little confusing trying to explain to anybody, let alone somebody on the scene what northern soul is.

This is my take on what it is, what seperates it from anything else.

Nobody out in this world has ever set out ( four Vandels apart) to go into a studio and make a northern soul record. Every!! other music genre has its market and plays to it. Rock N Roll/ R n B/ Country Western/ Reggie/ Blues/ Funk/Punk/Pop/Rock/ Progressive Rock/ House/Garage/Folk/ and every other style of music has its known recording artists that specifically set out to produce the sound that fits the bill, But not northern soul.

Northern Soul is pure and simply put just a beat behind the music, a tempo thats so hard to explain but so easy for those that are into it to recognise straight away. This is why there are so many non soul/black singers not known for their soulfull voices to be blasting from the speakers of OUR venues. Paul Anker/Dean Parrish/Vickie Baines/Dana Vallery/The Embers!!/Charlie Fucking Gracie FFs!! the list is literally endless that without them at a rough guess 1/5th of all "northern soul" tracks are sung by white artists, none of who would believe you if you told them where exactly that perticular record they made was being played, and none of who set out to make anything other than just a record.

This is the reason why I got into this music so long ago, if i wanted to go to nighters and hear R n B then i would have become a MOD instead as someone put earlier in a post i became a "SOULIE" not an "R n Bie".

I actually said Rockin'.......

Uptempo early R&B with dirty big sax breaks and the like.

These type of records shouldn't be played in Northern rooms, and as far as I'm aware, they generally never are.

There may be the odd few that slip the net, but you could say the same about every other genre of music that makes up the Northern scene ('Sister James' anyone?)

Trouble is, those who so readily dismiss R&B don't seem to be able to distinguish between those sort of tunes and a great fat slab of dancefloor dynamite such as J.T. Parker........so they dismiss it all.......unless it has been firmly stamped in some past decade with the Northern Soul seal of approval (Larry Davies 'Hurt so many times' and Ray Agee 'I'm losing again' are prime examples)

Why were such records accepted so easily back then?...maybe cus most people on the scene didn't have the huge hang-ups they have nowadays and DJs didn't spoonfeed the scene with the top 500 week in week out.

I agree with all of what you say pal, bloody hell twice in one day, must go and lay down in a dark room

JT Parker filled the floor at Radcliffe when Ginger played it, fantastic record but it has taken a few years since Andy Dyson first played it to really have an impact.

Back in the 80's just about anything was given a try in the thirst for something new, if it didn't work it was dropped, it was either good or bad.

I agree with all of what you say pal, bloody hell twice in one day, must go and lay down in a dark room

JT Parker filled the floor at Radcliffe when Ginger played it, fantastic record but it has taken a few years since Andy Dyson first played it to really have an impact.

Back in the 80's just about anything was given a try in the thirst for something new, if it didn't work it was dropped, it was either good or bad.

Andy Dyson should always take full credit for first playing JT Parker mate.....however, now Gingers playing it to the masses it will no doubt break away from the 'tag' of Rare Soul or R&B shite, get main room action at Kings Hall and become a Northern MONSTER

Bless......

i keep repeating this over and over again. but am blowin a gasket so...........it doesnt really matter what you call it,........... when it was written

, 1930s in some cases , please note. !!!................what colour the artist is ........... where he lives ,or lived, ...........who is shaggin him .................. who he

is or was shagging ...what he is shaggin, why he was or she , soz girls... .why he is singing it..$$$$$$$$$$ mostly ..the politics , any damn thing .. ..if you like whats in them grooves ......... it enjoy it...............if you dont go else

where next time and respect others tastes..............if your on this forum , then basically ..your somewhere near to most of the other folk on

here...................tiny differances become great chasms cos..........we care about it an love it..too much in many cases ...............see ya all soon ...............mr .northern/oldie/ crossover/ popcorn/ r&b/gospel/ doowop /teen/ beat ballad/ modern[a tiny bit] brown

BEEN A INFORMATIVE THREAD IN MY OPINION -dont say that with an air of cynacisim either -cant help feeling weve crossed this road before however as most of the stuff discussed is just the british healthy obsession with labels and genres.I like the lot and have a healthy smattering of R/B going right back to some blind lemon jefferson-muddy waters etc -we are all so bloody obsessed with defending genres that surely the main point is lost in the maze ie "dont defend it just f--king enjoy it " -the turf wars are pointless and a killing a stagnated scene anyway -although which scene i dont know cos there seems to be so many these days ive lost count lol.

imho northern soul has alot to answer for as its a lame piss poor excuse of an expression which helps dimiish and bastardise a whole lot of work and forward thinking from people who have had the insight to introduce stuff on the basis that its soulful and quality as opposed to fitting into a category -i dont flinch now and i am defrinetly way behind the game re r/b but if it wasnt for its introduction i would not of got stuff like the james davis on duke -or some of the wilder marva whitney stuff which is now trendy to call sister funk-to me just raw r/b!!

all of this stems from gospel anyway not a derict building in station road which now has a costa selling shit coffee next to a record box of pressings lol!!

BAZ A

Agree with baz.........l had things like larry davis ...on kent back in the 80,s no one called it R&B back then.....if it kicks (when ya out ) then it,s gooood to me......not quite the same,but remember going into burnley one night and saying to someone what the f**k is this it,s brilliant the kindly shepherds......and that my friends is GOSPEL,BUT WHAT A GREAT TUNE..........

soz for going mad..............would nt bother if i didnt care .........cheers ez

So it's final then, l start an innocent thread, people try defend their music but don't seem to be able to do so unless they say obcenities about at me.Come on mike aren't these RNB Boys big enought to stick up for themselves against just the one person,without 2 of the moderators having to dig them out of the sh*t,cos we all know RNB ain't Soul

End of!

get over yourself

just checked every post in this here thread and only thing that comes close to a obscenity that can find is one that was deleted

I'M A POET TOO...WHAT WORD RHYMES WITH TANKER??????

you making a fuss out of that now

just checked every post in this here thread and only thing that comes close to a obscenity that can find is one that was deleted

....and 16 Tons by Tenesee Ernie Ford

If you click on my last played,well apparently it has been played at Northern Soul all nighters...Not exactly 'l Can't Hold' On by Lorraine Chandler,now is it??

Here's a better version Webby

If you click on my last played,well apparently it has been played at Northern Soul all nighters...Not exactly 'l Can't Hold' On by Lorraine Chandler,now is it??

Apparently

If so, where..... and by whom, cus I'm not aware of anyone ever playing L Neefs at a northern Allnighter.

Or is this another one of your 'definately happened' posts that end up being of dubious authenticity?

....and 16 Tons by Tenesee Ernie Ford

thread on that there

mik parry makes some good points imo

dunno about nighter plays as says was played in a r&b room

big difference imo

but hey what does that matter, seems this thread to some is all about point scoring, why let the facts spoil things

OK i need some help here.Can someone explain to me please,what the northern soul scene is today and even if there is one.

Let me explain what i mean. what got me into Northern Soul was that 4 by 4 beat,it does not matter weather the artist was black or white or whatever,it was just that danceable beat.

I Have been brought up on music thru the 50s and 60s and i love all genres of music.

It seems like after Wigan closed people started playing slower records that did not quite tie in to what i understood was Northern Soul.

I still liked a lot of these slower soulful records,but what i also enjoyed about the scene was Dancing.

I found it almost impossible to dance to the Majority of these nowadays.

Maybe i am looking at the scene from the wrong angle, i dont know.

And even modern stuff seems to have slowed in pace nowadays.

Maybe the majority of people prefer to go to a venue now and just sit and listen.

In which case this makes me sound like an old dinasor.

Yes i love the oldies,but i would also dearly love to go to a niter where they play both newies and oldies,

but newies with that old danceable beat.

there are a lot of records from back in the wigan days,and before that are good and danceable,that you never hear nowadays at all.so why cant they revive some of these.

I am welcome to any explanations thanks.

Stu

thread on that there

mik parry makes some good points imo

dunno about nighter plays as says was played in a r&b room

big difference imo

but hey what does that matter, seems this thread to some is all about point scoring, why let the facts spoil things

not point scoring mike - but a bit of harmless banter/humour that is getting misinterpreted because of all the hot headedness coming out over what is obviously a total wind-up to begin with

Edited April 14, 201015 yr by mikecook

OK i need some help here.Can someone explain to me please,what the northern soul scene is today and even if there is one.

Let me explain what i mean. what got me into Northern Soul was that 4 by 4 beat,it does not matter weather the artist was black or white or whatever,it was just that danceable beat.

I Have been brought up on music thru the 50s and 60s and i love all genres of music.

It seems like after Wigan closed people started playing slower records that did not quite tie in to what i understood was Northern Soul.

I still liked a lot of these slower soulful records,but what i also enjoyed about the scene was Dancing.

I found it almost impossible to dance to the Majority of these nowadays.

Maybe i am looking at the scene from the wrong angle, i dont know.

And even modern stuff seems to have slowed in pace nowadays.

Maybe the majority of people prefer to go to a venue now and just sit and listen.

In which case this makes me sound like an old dinasor.

Yes i love the oldies,but i would also dearly love to go to a niter where they play both newies and oldies,

but newies with that old danceable beat.

there are a lot of records from back in the wigan days,and before that are good and danceable,that you never hear nowadays at all.so why cant they revive some of these.

I am welcome to any explanations thanks.

Stu

I've been posting some stuff on the R Soul thread tonight. Not about RnB but I thought this might lighten up this thread.

Best

Kev

on the R&B discussion, give me records like jackie weaver - the tingle or betty green - lonely girl instead of brain dead records like the shitty snake or fluxin neo - smile, smile i'd sooner paint a ceiling

I don't know how anyone who listens to the likes of Benny Troy can take the piss out of R&B with a straight face to be honest...and lets face it there are more fans of the former than the latter on this forum...

taste is subjective...it just so happens we have better taste than most

not point scoring mike - but a bit of harmless banter/humour that is getting misinterpreted because of all the hot headedness coming out over what is obviously a total wind-up to begin with

ah but you have just misinterpreted my response, it wasn't aimed at you

What do you mean 'Get Over Yourself?' You make out that l'm ars*d!...

Rhyming Slang doesn't seem to matter then?

What if l called a member a Cupid Stunt.?.....Not that l ever would....

you for real ?

you wanna discuss what action site should take if someone posts "what rhymes with a tanker"

as said get over yourself

the post and your response was deleted by a mod and if want discuss further then get in touch with one of the mods or post in feedback

what straw you going to clutch at next

OK i need some help here.Can someone explain to me please,what the northern soul scene is today and even if there is one.

Let me explain what i mean. what got me into Northern Soul was that 4 by 4 beat,it does not matter weather the artist was black or white or whatever,it was just that danceable beat.

I Have been brought up on music thru the 50s and 60s and i love all genres of music.

It seems like after Wigan closed people started playing slower records that did not quite tie in to what i understood was Northern Soul.

I still liked a lot of these slower soulful records,but what i also enjoyed about the scene was Dancing.

I found it almost impossible to dance to the Majority of these nowadays.

Maybe i am looking at the scene from the wrong angle, i dont know.

And even modern stuff seems to have slowed in pace nowadays.

Maybe the majority of people prefer to go to a venue now and just sit and listen.

In which case this makes me sound like an old dinasor.

Yes i love the oldies,but i would also dearly love to go to a niter where they play both newies and oldies,

but newies with that old danceable beat.

there are a lot of records from back in the wigan days,and before that are good and danceable,that you never hear nowadays at all.so why cant they revive some of these.

I am welcome to any explanations thanks.

Stu

Stu Stu Stu I used to be like you indeed a dinasor(no offence intended) what lived on the wigan & morcambe pier days and happy days they were then i moved to the soufffffffff and into the loving arms and ears of my brother kev by god he taught me how to appreciate all types of "soul Music " but still couldn`t get my head round the R&B( SHITE) as i called it then then i started going to prestatyn and started listening to the music in the 5 different rooms available still struggled with the R&B but by gum this yr i couldn`t get enough of it maybe my ears are ajusting as i get older

bit off thread sorry guys

regards julie

No if you did then you'd listen to Soul Music

Jackie Wilson...the early years..

https://www.history-of-rock.com/jackie_wilson.htm

Stu Stu Stu I used to be like you indeed a dinasor(no offence intended) what lived on the wigan & morcambe pier days and happy days they were then i moved to the soufffffffff and into the loving arms and ears of my brother kev by god he taught me how to appreciate all types of "soul Music " but still couldn`t get my head round the R&B( SHITE) as i called it then then i started going to prestatyn and started listening to the music in the 5 different rooms available still struggled with the R&B but by gum this yr i couldn`t get enough of it maybe my ears are ajusting as i get older

bit off thread sorry guys

regards julie

Best post you've ever made Julie.

x

Anyway back on thread......'Why Do RNB fans get annoyed when you tell them that their music has no Soul?'

R&B fans get annoyed at criticism because this music means as much to us as the hardcore " I live and breathe northern soul " brigade ... I think also if you had come on with a valid argument or a valid question the it would have been a discussion rather than the one you did ask which was VERY badly thought out .

To be honest if that had of been your first post people would have been justified in thinking you knew sod all about soul or R&B .

Stu Stu Stu I used to be like you indeed a dinasor(no offence intended) what lived on the wigan & morcambe pier days and happy days they were then i moved to the soufffffffff and into the loving arms and ears of my brother kev by god he taught me how to appreciate all types of "soul Music " but still couldn`t get my head round the R&B( SHITE) as i called it then then i started going to prestatyn and started listening to the music in the 5 different rooms available still struggled with the R&B but by gum this yr i couldn`t get enough of it maybe my ears are ajusting as i get older

bit off thread sorry guys

regards julie

exactly my experience on returning to the scene, 12 years ago...............richer for it 2 i said "no more "2 days ago................grrrrrr, deffo now, ez

We've been down this road soooo many times. Many of us were Soul fans before we got into 'Northern Soul'. The artists had obscure names like Percy Wiggins, Herb Ward, Sam Williams etc, but they were evidently Soul records and therefore instantly appealed. So for me, the Soul quotient was important. I didn't care for the deluge of 60's Brit Pop in 1978/9 and still don't, so the Northern Soul embraces all argument for me never really washed, at the risk of being labelled a purist, soul snob/police or whatever. One doesn't have to like it any more than one has to like Soul.

OK i need some help here.Can someone explain to me please,what the northern soul scene is today and even if there is one.

Let me explain what i mean. what got me into Northern Soul was that 4 by 4 beat,it does not matter weather the artist was black or white or whatever,it was just that danceable beat.

I Have been brought up on music thru the 50s and 60s and i love all genres of music.

It seems like after Wigan closed people started playing slower records that did not quite tie in to what i understood was Northern Soul.

I still liked a lot of these slower soulful records,but what i also enjoyed about the scene was Dancing.

I found it almost impossible to dance to the Majority of these nowadays.

Maybe i am looking at the scene from the wrong angle, i dont know.

And even modern stuff seems to have slowed in pace nowadays.

Maybe the majority of people prefer to go to a venue now and just sit and listen.

In which case this makes me sound like an old dinasor.

Yes i love the oldies,but i would also dearly love to go to a niter where they play both newies and oldies,

but newies with that old danceable beat.

there are a lot of records from back in the wigan days,and before that are good and danceable,that you never hear nowadays at all.so why cant they revive some of these.

I am welcome to any explanations thanks.

Stu

Spot on post. Why can't these records get revived instead of giving needletime to novelty farmyard r &b records (Peanut Duck and Harvey) come to mind and badly produced screechy midtempo records.He has mentioned a very important word that seem to have been forgotten in the rush to alter the NORTHERN SOUL scene's direction DANCING......Lots of talk on this thread about who took what from the mod scene and how great it is to play it on the RARE SOUL SCENE...God the word NORTHE....NORTH.. I can't bring myself to say it.Leave these records on the mod scene.Leave latin on the mod scene.Leave doo wop on the rockin scene.Keep NORTHERN SOUL on the NORTHERN SOUL scene.Even Tim Ashibende has gone on record to state that Stafford went too far in relation to some of the sounds played there.I'm going to play my copy of Shmon by Mr Dynamite at our next NORTHERN SOUL do.Will I be getting plaudits for introducing this track to the NORTHERN SOUL Scene??.It is a great MOD R&B track and should stay on the MOD scene with hundreds of other great MOD/R&B/Popcorn tracks.Wonder how many flyers advertise RARE SOUL then tag on NORTHERN SOUL at the end as some sort of apology and how many are out and out NORTHERN SOUL gigs.It says baked beans on the tin. When I open it I dont expect spaghetti and sausages because Mr Heinz feels that I should be enriched and he feels I should be eating it.

Edited April 14, 201015 yr by wiggyflat

We've been down this road soooo many times. Many of us were Soul fans before we got into 'Northern Soul'. The artists had obscure names like Percy Wiggins, Herb Ward, Sam Williams etc, but they were evidently Soul records and therefore instantly appealed. So for me, the Soul quotient was important. I didn't care for the deluge of 60's Brit Pop in 1978/9 and still don't, so the Northern Soul embraces all argument for me never really washed, at the risk of being labelled a purist, soul snob/police or whatever. One doesn't have to like it any more than one has to like Soul.

Same with me - if it's a good Soul record then I want to hear it and I don't care what genre it has been filed in or if it was recorded 40 years ago or yesterday.

Cheers

Manus

l've said previous l don't know any thing about RNB...that's it!!

Then why f**king comment on it...stick to asking people what coloured socks they wear...it's more your level

Come on Davie,l was trying to get some questions.....and l like l've said previous l don't know any thing about RNB...that's it!!

Come on Webby, don't know anything about r&b?.You never heard of Chuck Berry, Little Walter,Sonny Boy Williamson,Sugar Pie Desanto or Sonny Terry....it's the new RARE SOUL??? Forget good productions from Chicago and detroit based on the Motown template.Uptempo music that's great for dancing to.This is it.Play it out and you will be getting backslapping paludits for introducing it.I have some rare gospel music somewhere which I might introduce to the RARE SOUL SCENE.Got to make sure I'm the first to play it.I think I will get some deejays from the rare funk scene to deejay on the RARE SOUL SCENE.

Edited April 14, 201015 yr by wiggyflat

OK i need some help here.Can someone explain to me please,what the northern soul scene is today and even if there is one.

Let me explain what i mean. what got me into Northern Soul was that 4 by 4 beat,it does not matter weather the artist was black or white or whatever,it was just that danceable beat.

I Have been brought up on music thru the 50s and 60s and i love all genres of music.

It seems like after Wigan closed people started playing slower records that did not quite tie in to what i understood was Northern Soul.

I still liked a lot of these slower soulful records,but what i also enjoyed about the scene was Dancing.

I found it almost impossible to dance to the Majority of these nowadays.

Maybe i am looking at the scene from the wrong angle, i dont know.

And even modern stuff seems to have slowed in pace nowadays.

Maybe the majority of people prefer to go to a venue now and just sit and listen.

In which case this makes me sound like an old dinasor.

Yes i love the oldies,but i would also dearly love to go to a niter where they play both newies and oldies,

but newies with that old danceable beat.

there are a lot of records from back in the wigan days,and before that are good and danceable,that you never hear nowadays at all.so why cant they revive some of these.

I am welcome to any explanations thanks.

Stu

This might explain Northern Soul as i see it.........and of coarse it THE ONLY way it can be seen......

Ok first of all i have gotten myself into quite a little bit of trouble for airing MY views on what should should not be played at nighters and my general view on R n B. In another thread i dared to use the expression "real deal R n B" this was used to split the difference between known R n B artists and tracks that have been excepted as "northern Soul" E.G. Micky Champion/ Jimmy Robins/ A.C.Read/ etc... there are hundreds that are known as northern soul but sung by R n B artists. The fact is that all the R n B stuff that has crossed over and is known as mainstream northern soul has that one thing in common with all northern soul and thats the beat behind the music.

This is where it all gets a little confusing trying to explain to anybody, let alone somebody on the scene what northern soul is.

This is my take on what it is, what seperates it from anything else.

Nobody out in this world has ever set out ( four Vandels apart) to go into a studio and make a northern soul record. Every!! other music genre has its market and plays to it. Rock N Roll/ R n B/ Country Western/ Reggie/ Blues/ Funk/Punk/Pop/Rock/ Progressive Rock/ House/Garage/Folk/ and every other style of music has its known recording artists that specifically set out to produce the sound that fits the bill, But not northern soul.

Northern Soul is pure and simply put just a beat behind the music, a tempo thats so hard to explain but so easy for those that are into it to recognise straight away. This is why there are so many non soul/black singers not known for their soulfull voices to be blasting from the speakers of OUR venues. Paul Anker/Dean Parrish/Vickie Baines/Dana Vallery/The Embers!!/Charlie Fucking Gracie FFs!! the list is literally endless that without them at a rough guess 1/5th of all "northern soul" tracks are sung by white artists, none of who would believe you if you told them where exactly that perticular record they made was being played, and none of who set out to make anything other than just a record.

This is the reason why I got into this music so long ago, if i wanted to go to nighters and hear R n B then i would have become a MOD instead as someone put earlier in a post i became a "SOULIE" not an "R n Bie".

.. It seems to be a case of some people wanting to change the template.

Personally, I wouldn't mind it if the template was lobbed off the front of the stage at every nighter I attend, if it lets DJ's spread their wings a bit What was it about the "Stafford generation" (for want of a better term) who had R&B and Modern tunes in the same room as well as more "traditional" Northern sounds?, Just more adventurous? Of course the template changes - thank God - it's called evolution. Lots of folk seem to want to define Northern Soul as "NS that I like", rather than "records that have been played on the NS scene"

It's like Japanese soldiers emerging out of the Jungle after World War II ....... "Yes, they play the odd R&B, Modern and Latin spin these days, and there's even events whare the emphasis is more on soul than beat these days....... no, we didn't burn the Casino down deliberately, but don't worry you can listen to all your old favourites at a 1001 venues across the country... if you insist you can wear your old uniform"