It's a question I'm curious about.

I think the general concensus on here, is that generally the most-rated DJ's on the Northern Soul scene are the guys that play authentic original copies of highly rare records, both known and unknown. This applies to both current rare and popular oldies DJ's - in other words, right across the spectrum of the whole scene.

So, accepting the philosophy that in order to become a top Northern Soul DJ these days in pretty much all areas of the scene, one needs to have a large box full of rare originals worth tens of thousands of pounds, then doesn't that suggest that the scene is pre-disposed to those with a huge amount of disposable income?

I'm long, long gone from the cutting edge of rare record collecting these days but I keep an eye on things and occasionally get lucky every so often, so obviously I keep an eye on current prices and generally end up weeping LOL.

If I were to re-create the same 200 count box that cost me less than £300 in 1975, it would cost me a minimum of £30K now and probably nearer £50K. If I , included my overall collection at the time into the equation, then we'd be talking circa £200K at todays prices (mainly 'cos I had all the 70's stuff that's now off the scale).

So obviously I've thought about this and figured out that there's a massive amount of difference between the passionate Northern Soul DJ's of the 1970's and the passionate Northern Soul DJ's of today.

Without a doubt, I personally 100% rode the route of enjoying and playing super-rare records that no one else had, and naturally, a certain amount of ego was involved. But records were relatively cheap back then and most aspiring DJ's were beavering away getting their own choices together well within most people's disposable income levels. So the path towards becoming a popular Northern Soul DJ back then somehow seemed a bit more organic in that virtually anyone could get within reach of the top guys providing they had the right taste and made smart buying choices. It didn't really start becoming a money-lead thing until '75/'76 in my view. In fact, when it started going that route, I got the hell out of dodge and started looking for records at the source. The economics made a bit more sense.

So I guess the question is: do you need a £50K collection of originals to even get into the top-strata these days?

And, as a result, has Northern Soul become a rich man's sport?

Ian D

It would be good if you could get a good balance of everything, for the sake of argument 50% tried and tested, 25% forgotten/underplayed, 25% new & semi known Put together with some imagination and flair by a competent DJ with an ear for a record. No need to spend a fortune there are 100's of great records for less than £50 every bit as good as many 1000 quidders.

There is no need whatsoever to employ a DJ with a box of boots, loads out there with the real deal who can do more than a capable job!! Trouble is there are too many promoters scratching each others back.

apologies if this has been covered but, surely its the music you play not the format that its on?

i collect music cos thats what i do, but when it comes to djing, its about the sound as opposed to the actual record on the deck.

If only it was that simple! I think the Northern scene is the only scene where it matters so much.

It would be good if you could get a good balance of everything, for the sake of argument 50% tried and tested, 25% forgotten/underplayed, 25% new & semi known Put together with some imagination and flair by a competent DJ with an ear for a record. No need to spend a fortune there are 100's of great records for less than £50 every bit as good as many 1000 quidders.

There is no need whatsoever to employ a DJ with a box of boots, loads out there with the real deal who can do more than a capable job!! Trouble is there are too many promoters scratching each others back.

One of the best posts on the thread IMO.

i have this argument everyweek at the oldies venues i frequent too many forgotton oldies just left to collect dust nowadays? i actualy requested barbara and brenda -never love a robin ,jackie lee - do the temptation walk, sweet three - i would if i could,whilst at the alfreton all dayer just gone.So i thought dave evison would be a safe bet to hear at least one of them... but even dave didnt have them? cant remember the last time i heard the tiffanies-its got to be a great song?the list is endless,yes its good for new records to come along but there are so many fantastic time tested oldies that just are not getting aired anymore? and would be so refreshing to hear again.

Yeah how about another pigeon hole? 'Underplayed oldies', that would be brilliant event, as the R&U events seem to concentrate more on the stuff that didn't and don't get played much, but a night of stuff that did get played but doesn't now would be a top idea.

I'm up for it anyway.

If only it was that simple! I think the Northern scene is the only scene where it matters so much.

And that's what makes it so special!

Phil

I totaly agree with Bearsy a good dj is agood dj and i also side with Dave that they must all be original how would you feel if you're up next to do your spot then bang the guy plays a bootleg copy of a record you have just paid £500 upwards for, i know i would be gutted. No your set dose not have to be all £1000 plus records but original YES.

Edited July 12, 201113 yr by russell f

i have this argument everyweek at the oldies venues i frequent too many forgotton oldies just left to collect dust nowadays? i actualy requested barbara and brenda -never love a robin ,jackie lee - do the temptation walk, sweet three - i would if i could,whilst at the alfreton all dayer just gone.So i thought dave evison would be a safe bet to hear at least one of them... but even dave didnt have them? cant remember the last time i heard the tiffanies-its got to be a great song?the list is endless,yes its good for new records to come along but there are so many fantastic time tested oldies that just are not getting aired anymore? and would be so refreshing to hear again.

I'd go for Tommy Hunts version of "never love a robin" myself

And that's what makes it so special!

Phil

yes and I think that 258 posts on this thread show how passionate folk are on that very fact.

It seems we are saying that

You don't need loads of money to be an "Oldies" dj with the acknowledged big tunes because very few events are OVO- so who cares.......... ?

But on the "Rare" scene where there are more OVO events and people seem to care more, you do..............

In both arenas its accepted you could put together low cost / mixed sets that would play out great.....just trying to base on the original question intent.

Is that a fair summation............... ?

I think that if Ian wanted to be a big time oldies dj now and get top bookings (Kings Hall/Weekenders etc) and wanted the records he had back in the day then I think that list is representative.....fancy hearing that lot as newies!!.Someone mentioned that most oldies events don't care whether it's ovo or not....I'm sure the Kings Hall is originals or do you know different.Right I'm off with popsike and a calculator. BTW is this representative of a box of then current plays or is this stuff that passed through your hands over the years.BTW I have 13 of them

Edited July 12, 201113 yr by wiggyflat

Yeah how about another pigeon hole? 'Underplayed oldies', that would be  brilliant event, as the R&U events seem to concentrate more on the stuff that didn't and don't get played much, but a night of stuff that did get played but doesn't now would be a top idea.

I'm up for it anyway. ' />

I'd go for Tommy Hunts version of "never love a robin" myself

I'll treat that with the contempt it deserves LOL!

Unless it's the original on 'Spark' Heheh!!

Edited July 12, 201113 yr by steveLuigi

Yeah how about another pigeon hole? 'Underplayed oldies', that would be brilliant event, as the R&U events seem to concentrate more on the stuff that didn't and don't get played much, but a night of stuff that did get played but doesn't now would be a top idea.

I'm up for it anyway.

That's the daftest idea I heard in a long time I'm sorry to say. Over 95% of what gets played at even the majority of R&U venues are oldies. They may not be the oldies from when you may have been a regular on the scene in many cases but they're oldies just the same.

Edited July 12, 201113 yr by ged parker

that steve would be a superb idea a night full of forgotton oldies i think could work well? i do know some folks go to these rare and under played venues because they are fed up listening to the same oldies over and over again.So a venue hosting complete forgotton oldies could emerge both the rare crowd with the oldies crowd and probably there would be something there for everybody making the night a winner.

That's the daftest idea I heard in a long time I'm sorry to say. Over 95% of what gets played at even the majority of R&U venues are oldies. They may not be the oldies from when you may have been a regular on the scene in many cases but they're oldies just the same.

What I meant was a night of stuff that used to get played regular at events up and down the country and were big tunes and don't get played now. As opposed to the stuff that didn't get played much back then but does now at R&U gigs.There is a difference.

Edited July 12, 201113 yr by steveLuigi

that steve would be a superb idea a night full of forgotton oldies i think could work well? i do know some folks go to these rare and under played venues because they are fed up listening to the same oldies over and over again.So a venue hosting complete forgotton oldies could emerge both the rare crowd with the oldies crowd and probably there would be something there for everybody making the night a winner.

I believe Mark Freeman has already done it at the CO-OP

that steve would be a superb idea a night full of forgotton oldies i think could work well? i do know some folks go to these rare and under played venues because they are fed up listening to the same oldies over and over again.So a venue hosting complete forgotton oldies could emerge both the rare crowd with the oldies crowd and probably there would be something there for everybody making the night a winner.

Forgotten by whom?

What I meant was a night of stuff that used to get played regular at events up and down the country and were big tunes and don't get played now. As opposed to the stuff that didn't get played much back then but does now at R&U gigs.There is a difference.

What tunes and what events regularly up and down the country?

Do you not think that DJ's at venues up and down the land this very minute are hoping to rediscover that long forgotten tune that sets the dancefloor alight?

I think you've fallen into the trap of thinking that forgotten oldies are the ones you liked back in the day (Whenever that was for you, but only when it was for you not the forgotten 'oldie' for me that is unknown to you).

It not uncommon to be asked "can you play some oldies mate?" I'm too polite to say "these are oldies even if you don't know em"

I'd go for Tommy Hunts version of "never love a robin" myself

Great taste as ever Kenny

that steve would be a superb idea a night full of forgotton oldies i think could work well? i do know some folks go to these rare and under played venues because they are fed up listening to the same oldies over and over again.So a venue hosting complete forgotton oldies could emerge both the rare crowd with the oldies crowd and probably there would be something there for everybody making the night a winner.

There's already plenty of nights that do this, it is nothing new.

I believe Mark Freeman has already done it at the CO-OP

Mark is one of the best examples of an oldies DJ searching for particular sounds. I think he'll tell you he hears most of them for the first time off tapes rather than remembering them from first time around. He then tracks them down and fits them into his set.

Yeah how about another pigeon hole? 'Underplayed oldies', that would be brilliant event, as the R&U events seem to concentrate more on the stuff that didn't and don't get played much, but a night of stuff that did get played but doesn't now would be a top idea.

I'm up for it anyway.

Most, if not all rare and underplayed events play plenty of forgotten and neglected oldies alongside classic oldies and newies, that's the difference between us and the nostalgia oldies events.

If you and Tommo are serious about wanting to hear what you describe above you need to attend Burnley this Saturday instead of Stoke.

edit: what Ged said...

Edited July 12, 201113 yr by Matt Male

What I meant was a night of stuff that used to get played regular at events up and down the country and were big tunes and don't get played now. As opposed to the stuff that didn't get played much back then but does now at R&U gigs.There is a difference.

Ah I see the difference now.

='1310492362' post='1604463']

that steve would be a superb idea a night full of forgotton oldies i think could work well? i do know some folks go to these rare and under played venues because they are fed up listening to the same oldies over and over again.So a venue hosting complete forgotton oldies could emerge both the rare crowd with the oldies crowd and probably there would be something there for everybody making the night a winner.

As opposed to calling it Underplayed... .If it walks like a duck....Underplayed,forgotten,rare...all been done and still being done.

But to really spice up the night you need the quality big stuff as well,alongside well chosen and place oldies.Drop something in your set that turns heads.

One point that's not been covered ( or i've missed),is the turnover of tunes needed to be a top dj.Once you're on the treadmill,if you are truly focused,you need to one step ahead of ther game.Crate digging,good contacts,even better memory than most in some cases.

Or you could just buy boots/pressing on the cheap and have a full nights sleep...

As opposed to calling it Underplayed... .If it walks like a duck....Underplayed,forgotten,rare...all been done and still being done.

But to really spice up the night you need the quality big stuff as well,alongside well chosen and place oldies.Drop something in your set that turns heads.

One point that's not been covered ( or i've missed),is the turnover of tunes needed to be a top dj.Once you're on the treadmill,if you are truly focused,you need to one step ahead of ther game.Crate digging,good contacts,even better memory than most in some cases.

Or you could just buy boots/pressing on the cheap and have a full nights sleep...

Trouble is nowadays Kev with the scene being so fragmented it can take years to break a sound. Some of todays biggies have taken 5 years, over ten in some cases to be trulyy accepted, Johnny Praye, Tommy & Derby's and Sensations spring to mind. Granted you can turn to the stuff you've had for years or known about for years, thats where the knowledge comes in, something the johnny come lately's who throw as much money as possible at it then disappear can' t do.

What tunes and what events regularly up and down the country?

Do you not think that DJ's at venues up and down the land this very minute are hoping to rediscover that long forgotten tune that sets the dancefloor alight?

I think you've fallen into the trap of thinking that forgotten oldies are the ones you liked back in the day (Whenever that was for you, but only when it was for you not the forgotten 'oldie' for me that is unknown to you).

It not uncommon to be asked "can you play some oldies mate?" I'm too polite to say "these are oldies even if you don't know em"

Yeah but I think you would be more pissed off if they said "can you play something that we know mate", which is probably closer to the point of what they mean. Not having a go Ged, but nothing makes your blood boil more than someone saying that.

Yeah but I think you would be more pissed off if they said "can you play something that we know mate", which is probably closer to the point of what they mean. Not having a go Ged, but nothing makes your blood boil more than someone saying that.

At some venues that would be a compliment...

At some venues that would be a compliment...

Heheh! yeah, funny old game!

Yeah but I think you would be more pissed off if they said "can you play something that we know mate", which is probably closer to the point of what they mean. Not having a go Ged, but nothing makes your blood boil more than someone saying that.

I plead guity to having been asked that on more that one occassion.

I'm not a guy with a box full of unknown acetates and cover ups btw and anyhow how the hell are you supposed to know what punters know and what they don't know and still keep the content fresh, especially when they tell you they want "stuff that used to played at events up and down the country".

That's mostly what I play.

I plead guity to having been asked that on more that one occassion.

I'm not a guy with a box full of unknown acetates and cover ups btw and anyhow how the hell are you supposed to know what punters know and what they don't know and still keep the content fresh, especially when they tell you they want "stuff that used to played at events up and down the country".

That's mostly what I play.

Or the best one is "Can you play something that we can dance to" WTF????

OR

"If you play this everyone will dance"

Yeah right, either only they dance when you play it, or no one at all.

Dickheads!!!

Edited July 12, 201113 yr by steveLuigi

Or the best one is "Can you play something that we can dance to" WTF????

OR

"If you play this everyone will dance"

Yeah right, either only they dance when you play it, or no one at all.

Dickheads!!!

Don't be giving me the " :lol:" people will start having me down as an oldies DJ

LOL! soz!

Trouble is nowadays Kev with the scene being so fragmented it can take years to break a sound. Some of todays biggies have taken 5 years, over ten in some cases to be trulyy accepted, Granted you can turn to the stuff you've had for years or known about for years, thats where the knowledge comes in, something the johnny come lately's who throw as much money as possible at it then disappear can' t do.

100% Agree, you can't buy years of knowledge.

I will be 1st to admit for the last 15 years or maybe 20 years I have been more into the modern scene than the al-nighter scene.

But when I have talked to the kind of johnny come latelys, at nighters there knowledge is very limited.

No prices for guessing which nighter I will be going to on Saturday.

Nah, I've known that record since '74 ish. It used to be a last hour @ Blackpool Mecca record in the 70's and I had a copy circa Cleethorpes period but never really played it. Quite possibly it could have been another record but certainly not Betty Lloyd.

Incidentally, that was the day I sold a whole heap of great 70's stuff to Pat Brady and the same night I sold my cracked copy of Joe Mathews to Gary (for £175 I think). I remember the night well 'cos I got busted in Chapeltown @ 8.00am on Sunday morning coming out of Cliff's. The cops stopped the car I was in, found some spliff in the back and arrested everyone, saw that I was from London and then found £8K in cash in my hotel room! Took some explaining that I'd merely sold some records..........

Ian D

sorry ian, my mistake it was gracie dumas, not betty lloyd, yes i think you've had better nights

Burnley Dave?

They can have as much money as they want but most of the so called top DJs dont have a fecking clue!!!

matt ive already made arangments to go to stoke this saturday, ive heard great reports about burnley so shall make a point of making a trip up there soon. Would be great to hear ikettes/two timin double dealing... adventurers / easy baby... boots randolph / take a letter maria...just a couple that come to mind?

sorry ian, my mistake it was gracie dumas, not betty lloyd, yes i think you've had better nights

Wow. Look at that! It's not often that someone acknowledges a mistake!

Well done Soulman. You sir, are a gentleman.

Luckily you happened to choose one night that I'm hardly likely to forget which incorporated seeing seeing Pat Brady in the afternoon where I flogged him about £7K worth of stuff, followed by numerous bars, clubs, restaurants and then the Griffin, Gary Field buying a cracked Joe Mathews, more sales and bumping into folk I hadn't seen for years, followed by a rave until 8.00am, Cliff's until 9.00am and then a police cell for most of Sunday, a casino and then a 200 mile trip back to London in the early hours of Monday morning.

I king hell b*stard of a weekend that was and one I won't forget in a hurry.

And I still don't really know the Gracie Dumas record LOL......

By the way, where is Gary these days? Is he OK?

Ian D

Edited July 12, 201113 yr by Ian Dewhirst

Forgotten oldies.........................cant remember any

PS Ian was the cracked Joe Mathews an issue? Might know where that is!

Edited July 12, 201113 yr by smudgesmith

So the crux of the whole debate is really, Ian's definition of a top DJ. Without using boots or pressings you could be a top DJ on the ''underplayed'' scene relatively cheaply, by the same criteria, no boots or pressings, you would have to fork out a fortune to be a top oldies DJ. So on the ''underplayed'' scene, I take it there are very few big ticket items?

if thats how you see it Winnie, i see it the same on both scenes as in, you dont have to have massive price tunes to be a bloody good dj but both scenes have big money tunes that are not just rare but bloody expensive too and both scenes have cheap tunes that are bloody good, what im saying really is on either scene you dont have to have big money tunes to be a top dj but as we all know big money tunes do help and will get you recognised by some where as i have found in my limited time in the scene that you can also get great recognition for being a bloody good dj without having big money tunes, for me its all about the music and the price is irrelevent cos once i own them they all have the same value they are all equal, unless i sell a tune of course

if you want to be known as a top dj does it really have to be about value or can it just be about what you play and how you play them beautiful little black plasticy thingys

the top djs for me are those that play with a passion and belief and know how to entertain and that takes years of practice knowledge and a very good collection

Wow. Look at that! It's not often that someone acknowledges a mistake!

Well done Soulman. You sir, are a gentleman.

Luckily you happened to choose one night that I'm hardly likely to forget which incorporated seeing seeing Pat Brady in the afternoon where I flogged him about £7K worth of stuff, followed by numerous bars, clubs, restaurants and then the Griffin, Gary Field buying a cracked Joe Mathews, more sales and bumping into folk I hadn't seen for years, followed by a rave until 8.00am, Cliff's until 9.00am and then a police cell for most of Sunday, a casino and then a 200 mile trip back to London in the early hours of Monday morning.

I king hell b*stard of a weekend that was and one I won't forget in a hurry.

And I still don't really know the Gracie Dumas record LOL......

By the way, where is Gary these days? Is he OK?

Ian D

Ian if it helps, I was chatting to Gary a few weeks ago. His wife Lynne came to the 'Irish Centre' do and she rang him for me.

He has got rid of all his records but says he has loads of massive tunes on Cd that not many have heard. He had Rich Searling round at his a couple of weeks ago too. Still the same old Gary as far as I can make out, but without the records. I plan to pop round to see him soon as he only lives round the corner from me. Didn't know that til I spoke to him though.

Steve X

Edited July 12, 201113 yr by steveLuigi

matt ive already made arangments to go to stoke this saturday, ive heard great reports about burnley so shall make a point of making a trip up there soon. Would be great to hear ikettes/two timin double dealing... adventurers / easy baby... boots randolph / take a letter maria...just a couple that come to mind?

Ok mate, be good to meet you. Say hello to Mark Freeman at Stoke for me.

great thread ive enjoyed the discussions comments and passion shown but im all typed out now perfect set for me, a few choice oldies a few big ticket items a few cheapies a few underplayed and a few forgotten and a few scarcely known in a dark seedy room that holds about !50 peeps on a cracking sound system played by passionate djs that love the music not their own ego somewhere very close to where i live in Southampton so i can walk home at 8am with a smile on me face

PS Ian was the cracked Joe Mathews an issue? Might know where that is!

Yep. It was actually a perfect copy until an ex managed to tread on it in an overflowing record room.......

I taped the other side with a piece of brown masking tape to prevent further damage and it actually still played perfectly. No styrene burn at the intro either. I've always thought it was a bloody rare record............

Ian D

Ian if it helps, I was chatting to Gary a few weeks ago. His wife Lynne came to the 'Irish Centre' do and she rang him for me.

He has got rid of all his records but says he has loads of massive tunes on Cd that not many have heard. He had Rich Searling round at his a couple of weeks ago too. Still the same old Gary as far as I can make out, but without the records. I plan to pop round to see him soon as he only lives round the corner from me. Didn't know that til I spoke to him though.

Steve X

Yeah, someone told me he was still in touch with Richard. He's the kind of guy who can disappear for years and then turn up with handful of ridiculously rare things. I still don't know how he kept turning up with killer records but he always did. I never got Robbie Lawson off him though!

Ian D

Burnley Dave?

They can have as much money as they want but most of the so called top DJs dont have a fecking clue!!!

Yeah Steve, I will be at Burnley.

If a record is an 'underplayed oldie' can I presume it that it never took off, or got the plays or recognition it deserved in the day, regardless of the fact that it was probably a quality tune.

So are todays spins from the rare scene DJs, tomorrows underplayed oldies?

Surely there's a lesson to be learned here

An example of this, is that someone well into the oldies side of the scene recently told Johnny Beggs that he used to hate most of the stuff that was played at The Raven in Whitchurch many moons ago, but admitted that most of those tunes he disliked, or didn't know back then, have since become massive records over subsequent years and now well established and respected on the oldies scene.

So you'd think, that by admitting to fail to see the attraction of such great tunes back then, he'd now have the foresight to check out what's happening on the rarer side of the scene.

Nope, not a chance.

great thread ive enjoyed the discussions comments and passion shown but im all typed out now perfect set for me, a few choice oldies a few big ticket items a few cheapies a few underplayed and a few forgotten and a few scarcely known in a dark seedy room that holds about !50 peeps on a cracking sound system played by passionate djs that love the music not their own ego somewhere very close to where i live in Southampton so i can walk home at 8am with a smile on me face

and preferably via the docks ay?

Ian D

and preferably via the docks ay?

Ian D

only if i had me bolox in the record room and needed a few quid for a maccy d brekkie Ian

If a record is an 'underplayed oldie' can I presume it that it never took off, or got the plays or recognition it deserved in the day, regardless of the fact that it was probably a quality tune.

So are todays spins from the rare scene DJs, tomorrows underplayed oldies?

Surely there's a lesson to be learned here

An example of this, is that someone well into the oldies side of the scene recently told Johnny Beggs that he used to hate most of the stuff that was played at The Raven in Whitchurch many moons ago, but admitted that most of those tunes he disliked, or didn't know back then, have since become massive records over subsequent years and now well established and respected on the oldies scene.

So you'd think, that by admitting to fail to see the attraction of such great tunes back then, he'd now have the foresight to check out what's happening on the rarer side of the scene.

Nope, not a chance.

There's nought as weird as folk Mace!

Ian D

Yeah, someone told me he was still in touch with Richard. He's the kind of guy who can disappear for years and then turn up with handful of ridiculously rare things. I still don't know how he kept turning up with killer records but he always did. I never got Robbie Lawson off him though!

Ian D

Yes apparently Ian back in day he was known as the guy with the little box full of big tunes.

Everyone thinks they're a f**king DJ on this scene and 90% of them havn't a clue how to do it..big records or not

I asked a similar question on here when I first joined..about how people can afford to buy expensive records..the answer I've found is..they can't..only a very small percentage pay top dollar for records..the latest hotbox monsters that someone else discovered..if you have a good ear and a good source you can pick up great records for peanuts..I'm not even going to tell you some of the profits I've made reselling some speculative sounds..a lot more than the money I've made DJing in this scene put it that way

Here's a tip..if you want to stand out as a DJ..

A) At least get a f**king set together

B) Try to be original and not chase the box of 20 records that every other soul DJ seems to own..find your own sound..you'll be a lot more satisfied and a lot less out of pocket

Personally if a record goes big that I have in my box I tend to play it less and less then just sell it

I get a lot more satisfaction from playing obscure records..but perhaps that's just my narcissism taking centre stage