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Recent auction ending prices

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Eloise Laws - Love Factory - Music Merchant demo £200

Carol Moore - Forever And A Day - Jobete Music Co £282

George Tinley - Ain't Gonna Worry About You - Doo-Wopp £254

Sam Williams - Love Slipped Through My Fingers - Tower demo £759

Ann Sexton - You've Been Gone Too Long - Seventy 7 demo £252

Midnight - Keep On Walking By - RCA Australian £275

Ted Taylor - Somebody's Aways Trying - Okeh demo purple vinyl £101

Clarence Carter - Messin With My Mind - Certain 12" promo £80

George Allen - Come On Home - Sotoplay £212

Stevie Wonder - Nothing's To Good For My Baby - Tamla Motown demo £130

Delegates Of Soul - I'll Come Running Back - Uplook £456

Jesse Davis - Gonna Hang On In There Girl - Era £1609

Duke Browner - Crying Over You vocal & instrumental - Impact £369

Eddie Parker - I'm Gone - Awake BOOT £37

Jimmy Thomas - The Beautiful Night c/w Above A Whisper - Parlophone £256

Hyperions - Why You Wanna Treat Me The Way You Do - Chattahoochee £859

Charles Johnson - Never Had A Love So Good - Alston £408

Leon Haywood - Baby Reconsider - Fat Fish £909

Soul Communicators - Those Lonely Nights - Fee Bee £459

Veda - What's It All About - West Sounds £250

Dynells - Call On Me c/w Let Me Prove That I Love You - Atco demo £238

Cavaliers - Do What I Want c/w Tighten Up - Shrine £2010

Ujima - I'm Not Ready - Epic £ 620

Sam Nesbit - Black Mother Goose c/w Chase Those Clouds - Amos Demo £607

Marvin Gaye - How Sweet It Is To Be Loved By You - Tamla Motown 11004 £131

Patti Austin - (I've Given) All My Love - Coral £296

Towana & The Total Destruction - Wear Your Natural Baby - Romark £308

Billy Hambric - She Said Goodbye c/w I Found A True Love - Drum £192

Rufus Lumley - I'm Standing - Reo £62

Flame N King & the Bold Ones - Ho Happy Day - N.Y.C.S £318

Walter Jackson - It's An Uphill Climb To The Bottom - UK Columbia Demo £234

Four Larks - Groovin' At The Go Go c/w I Still Love You - Tower £356

chip at twice the price - get it?! .........I'll get my shroud!!!!

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What's up with the Lillie bryant Demo anyway?

Last time I looked (about 5 days since); there were 2 days left.

Now, after it should have actually finished 3 days back, it has four days left? How odd...............

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I'm getting a bit pissed with the stuff he's listing to auction. 70% of them set-sale at best.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but let's just say I get a record in, post it in 'rarest of rare', sit on it for a month-6 weeks then BLAM! auction city here we come, and just to give the girls a rest with the phone ringing and everybody a chance..........

Nah, it's just not THAT easy to make silly money these days....

And the paradox is no-one forces anyone to buy them, or bid for that matter!

I just can't fathom it, I really can't.

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Been off the scene a few years and record prices have shot up again.

I can understand people paying big money for Cavaliers and other top end 45's if they want them bad enough, but Veda & Ujima i can't get my head around.

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I recognise some of the names from ebay. That Highland fella was bidding till the last on Four Larks, hmmmm.

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I can't get my breath with this. Every single one that I know on the list is just ridiculously valued! It's never right in a million years. Does anyone know anyone or admit to winning any of these? Are there a few lottery winning soulies on the scene that can't be arsed to hunt around for the tunes. OK some are shit rare and wont be seen for sale hardly ever, but there are too many that are around on one list or another or in people's boxes. I just can't help but feel there is something underhand going on here that is designed to get people in a lather about certain tunes and thus make people feel they should be paying these kind of prices. I know for a fact that people who are thinking of turning their records into cash are going straight to Ovenchip, knowing that is the best way to maximise their profits, which is fair enough, but who the f*** is spending £200 on Eloise Laws, or £600 on Ujima etc. etc.? This scene fucks my head in sometimes. If it aint this dodgy auctioning, it's DJ's playing the same played out tunes over and over again, week in week out and not having the balls to move things forward by playing different stuff. For Christ's sake the dancers will follow eventually if the tunes are good. I know I can't be the only person on the scene that wants to be stunned by fresh tunes, that I have to go up to the DJ and say What the f*** is this?!! That's what keeps the scene alive. At the moment it seems as stale as my friggin undies.

Jordi

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I it's DJ's playing the same played out tunes over and over again, week in week out and not having the balls to move things forward by playing different stuff. For Christ's sake the dancers will follow eventually if the tunes are good. I know I can't be the only person on the scene that wants to be stunned by fresh tunes, that I have to go up to the DJ and say What the f*** is this?!! That's what keeps the scene alive. At the moment it seems as stale as my friggin undies.

Jordi

Well said Jordi, you are not alone at all with your hopes for the scene to move forward. The time has come for people to realise we need new sounds to keep the momentum fresh and exiting as it once was. Im sick to the back teeth of some of the shite I have had to tolerate week in week out over the past few months!

As a paying customer I just want to hear something different now and again, maybe im going off topic, who cares!

cheers

Paul

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Totally agree with the sentiments above.

There are still great tracks that I'm hearing for the first time, from time to time, but how many new 'oldies' can there be to still find?

I think the scene has had 30 years to find the benchmarks, and that it has.

Everything is cyclical, in that by the nature of the scene we can only to the main extent 're-gurgitate' sounds that were played 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years ago etc. Other than 'finds' that some people are lucky enough to come across. And the rate, and sometimes quality, of these finds are not enough to surpress our appetites.

This is a one-off scene. The music was already there. all we had to do was find it. Once we had found it, what do we do next? This isn't the 1960's or the 1970's. Like I say, new material is being discovered and to some extent being recorded, but not in a sufficient quantity to fuel a progression to extent that we would all wish for.

All we can do is try and mix things up, keep digging out the forgotten ones, and maybe have another listen through the 'crap' box.

Shame on the guys who have 2,000 records but only play 20.

But having said that, we can hardly go through a massive revolution playing records that were recorded within roughly a 20 year period - end of.

Let's be realistic, but be true, and don't let it get stale by playing safe.

Jamie

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I can't get my breath with this. Every single one that I know on the list is just ridiculously valued! It's never right in a million years. Does anyone know anyone or admit to winning any of these? Are there a few lottery winning soulies on the scene that can't be arsed to hunt around for the tunes. OK some are shit rare and wont be seen for sale hardly ever, but there are too many that are around on one list or another or in people's boxes. I just can't help but feel there is something underhand going on here that is designed to get people in a lather about certain tunes and thus make people feel they should be paying these kind of prices. I know for a fact that people who are thinking of turning their records into cash are going straight to Ovenchip, knowing that is the best way to maximise their profits, which is fair enough, but who the f*** is spending £200 on Eloise Laws, or £600 on Ujima etc. etc.? This scene fucks my head in sometimes. If it aint this dodgy auctioning, it's DJ's playing the same played out tunes over and over again, week in week out and not having the balls to move things forward by playing different stuff. For Christ's sake the dancers will follow eventually if the tunes are good. I know I can't be the only person on the scene that wants to be stunned by fresh tunes, that I have to go up to the DJ and say What the f*** is this?!! That's what keeps the scene alive. At the moment it seems as stale as my friggin undies.

Jordi

right on dude. Do you run a club though, you gotta activate these things yourself I'm afraid.....

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Well said Jordi, you are not alone at all with your hopes for the scene to move forward. The time has come for people to realise we need new sounds to keep the momentum fresh and exiting as it once was. Im sick to the back teeth of some of the shite I have had to tolerate week in week out over the past few months!

As a paying customer I just want to hear something different now and again, maybe im going off topic, who cares!

cheers

Paul

totally agree - too many 'big'????????? dj's playing played out,worn out boring zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz floorfillers ('play safe' i think they call it!) - although credit where its due they seem to always get the bookings (bums on seats - feet on the dancefloor syndrome), but these people do have hundreds if not thousands of records so why not try playing a few of them ! leave the majestics, kurt harris et al at home! why traipse upand down the country just to hear the same djs playing the sameold tunes? remember alan rhodes at the casino all those years ago sticking his neckout with what eventually became quality tunes!

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Couldn't agree more although i do sympathise with DJ's as nobody likes to play to an empty floor especially at peak times. It seems to me that back in the day it was easier to break new tunes because there would always be some that stayed on the dancefloor no matter what was played because they had come out to dance and fuelled with chemicals would give anything a chance just so they could stay on the floor.

Nowadays if something new comes on, it seems to me, that people tend to stop and give it a listen before they dance if they don't know it. I know that is a generalisation but it's certainly something that has struck me a few times. Even records that are pretty well known in some regions don't seem to neccessarily travel well to other venues so i guess especially at peak times when there is a an expectancy for the "Name" headline DJ to fill the floor the sure fired floor fillers are played.

It would be interesting to hear the views of someone who has been DJing since back in the hey day, attitudes certainly changed during the Stafford era but i suspect that most of the people returning to the scene are doing so from earlier than that and maybe that would explain why some of the lightweight dancefloor fodder like Gayle Adams, The Futures, Drizabone and to a lesser degree Ace Spectrum which are all easy to dance to straight off without even knowing them become so popular in preference to much better records which just leave a trail of tumble weeds across the dancefloor.

JoT

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Soul Sam played at the first allnighter I ever went to. I had, had a couple of years going to my local youth club, some local soul nights, and occasionally the Stroud alldayers. I got used to the local sounds, and as I was new, these were still fresh and exciting. Sam played his spot at Yate, and I moaned like a cheap whore, that I didn't know one of his records, and he was rubbish.

Move forward 5 years, and I went to all but three or four Stafford allnighters, because they werent playing the same old stuff I was hearing everywhere else I went. (One allnighter, every DJ played Reggie Garner - Hotline, good record, but 8 times a night?? Only Jordan could be happy with that!)

My point is, after a while we all become bored with the same old tunes. I still love hearing the new tunes, which is why I am so lucky to live close to the 100 club. BUT I also love hearing a sound I havent heard for 5, 10, 20 years. Very often you only need the opening bars and you stop your converstaion, forget to apologise and rush onto a bit of wood and dance like a 20 year old again. (OK thats stretching it a bit).

So to the guys who do have thousands of records, why not take one night next week. Switch the telly off, and dig out some of the ones YOU havent heard in a while. You might surprise yourself, and hear one you really enjoy again. I reckon if you gave them a spin there would be lots more guys like me, who would really really ###ing appreciate it. We are all soul fans. If you enjoyed hearing a tune that reminds you of why you got into this type of music in the first place, I would place a large wager that there will be plenty of dancers who feel exactly the same.

We realise there are only so many undiscovered tunes to go around, and certain guys are lucky enough to have first dibs on those that turn up. This has to be a hell of a lot cheaper way of doing it, and it will still give a buzz, when you hear other DJs playing that tune you re-activated.

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I'm also horrified with these auction prices (200£ for Eloise Laws?) and i don't know who pays these prices.. never met anyone who could straight forward say that they paid silly money for Gayle Adams or such but i also think auctions like these only inspire the more level headed people to dig deeper, find new stuff, go for bargains e.tc. or am i wrong? I know at least all i want to do is to scorch the net for bargains when i see that someone pays XXX£ for tunes no better than Ottawans "d-i-s-c-o" (yes Gayle Adams again)..

best

Leeee-oooo

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I'l tell you what if i had 45's at them prices in my sales box i'd never sell a record ! i can't find these customers.

on the other point of sick of hearing the same stuff scenario - the upfront 60's -70's crowd are the worst people for moaning and not showing up at forward looking venues- it's been the same since stafford ended !

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Spot on Andy it's exactly the same in crossover circles there ain't exactly a wealth of quality promotions anyway and people are always bemoaning the fact and then when you get a quality event you can barely fill what should by rights be packed to the rafters, apathy and the i'll go to the next on mentality that we are all guilty of i suppose, just don't help.

Classic example was the Kev & Gary Etheridges Crossover 2000 do's in Dudley a real quality soul night but could never gaurantee even a half capacity but everytime i went it really was a quality night despite varying attendances!!

John

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Actually it would be an interesting excerise, if it were possible, to have a stab at estimating the ratios of people who are more into your progressive style sounds New Discoveries, Unreleased Material, Cover Ups and lesser played oldies and the number of people who are mainly into their tried and tested Oldies who actually take part in the Internet chat rooms, Forums and mailing lists. Perhaps we get a false impression of numbers because of this, who knows would be interesting though ;o))

There is,it seems to me, always plenty of people on the lists who are all for the Prog Noth ethos (I just made that up ;o))) but out there in the real world most events (with maybe the exceptions of Lifeline and Wilton?? [Q mark because i've never been]) struggle for numbers unless a huge homage is played to the Cult of Oldie.

To be fair the 100 Club seems to have struck a balance which enables them to break new sounds on a regular basis but they have been trained by a master for 25 years and even so still pander to the cult of oldie Ady is somewhat akin to Wallace from Wallace and Grommit fame in so much as he likes his cheese as much as the next man, but then he has been doing it long enough to know what works and there is no doubt that it does.

What was the record most people talked about after the 100 Club anniversary, Ady's alternate fem vocal to the Magicians? Butch's latest mega rarity? Kebs Mellow Madness? No the record of the night acclaimed by pretty much all that were there was Marvin and Tammy ....go figure

JoT

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Been off the scene a few years and record prices have shot up again.

I can understand people paying big money for Cavaliers and other top end 45's if they want them bad enough, but Veda & Ujima i can't  get my head around.

cavaliers - sorry but why can you understand people paying two and a half grand - think about that, it is a lot of cash actually - for a record that is actually fucking rubbish. scene is turning into an alternative for stamp collectors.

cheers

Scotty

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Well, the fella who bought one cracked but playing copy at around £400 (I think), then another one that seemed reasonably clean at around £500, and then yet another at around £800, that seemed like a decent enough copy, made a pretty good deal I'd say. 3 (yes three) copies off ebay in less than a year and still the copy Manship sold (graded as VG, and it is a styrene 45 remember...) went for £2000+. I am not very keen on the record at all myself (in fact I think Shrine as a label and most of it's musical product is THE most over-rated hype in northern history), and the times I have heard it played out in the UK it cleared the floor, and not very surprising it did either IMO.

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What was the record most people talked about after the 100 Club anniversary, Ady's alternate fem vocal to the Magicians? Butch's latest mega rarity? Kebs Mellow Madness? No the record of the night acclaimed by pretty much all that were there was Marvin and Tammy ....go figure

no disrespect JOT but it was the most memorable moment cuz it was early in the night & it is an astonishingly good tune & it really kicked off the party... i dont think people were talking about the record as such, just the buzz it created, it coulda been any record, the dj was doing his job, read the crowd n dropped the right tune :) ...later on around 4 someone played an incredible rnb song which i didnt get the name of...but those that knew it were beaming when they heard it...maybe noone here mentioned it & i wish i knew what it was..... the point being...you can get quality oldies & newies on the same night. are things really that bad or are you just being grumpy :)

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Back to topic, and an answer to the question. Its the whole auction thing live on line that sucks people in because they do not want to loose the fight as much as anything. There must be a brainy shrink northern soulie out there who can elaborate.

It happens selling loads of stuff like the story a few weeks ago on buying someones soul, remember.

Ed

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another consideration is that not every northern soul fan lives in england & auction sites & lists can be the only way to get hold of those records.....

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Wendy i think you are taking what i said in slightly the wrong way. I don't think neccessarily that it is a bad thing that M&T was the record of the night, and come on it was wasn't it? And yes there were others that i personally preferred i heard Kebs Mellow Madness "Out" for the first time and Butch as usual was superb but even with all this the talk after was of a bog standard Motown record. It just illustrates the power of the Oldie and well placed cheese, it lifts the spirit and provides a party atmosphere but you can't have it all ways can you?

It's a dilema what do you do?

Pander to the oldies crowd who know what they like and like what they know? They'll probably dance all night and your bar takings will be good so the owner of the venue will be happy.

or

Strive to push the boundaries put in the hard work that someone else will probably reap in five years time when people catch on to the records being played? Your crowd will be dedicated and knowledgable they will believe (probably) in what you are trying to do but will they be back next month.

I suppose realistically it's about balance, you can never please all the people all the time if ever!!!

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I honestly don't think all the Shrine records are poor. The Prophets "If I Had One Gold Piece", Ray Pollard "No More Like Me", Shirley Edwards "Dream My Heart", Sidney Hall "I'm A Lover" are all much more than competent soul 45s by, in some cases, exceptional singers.

Anti-Shrine comment is understandable given the sometimes excessive prices for many of the releases. But to tar the entire catalogue as "shite" is no more than a knee-jerk reaction.

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...in fact I think Shrine as a label and most of it's musical product is THE most over-rated hype in northern history...

Totally aggree. As a wise man (Tim brown I think) omnce said, "Shrine = shite" - and oh how true that is! The 1 decent recording is Bobby reed - Caledonia brown, and it's just sod's law that it was never f**king released! Until now.....Yes the shrine boots, and yes...I said boots, not reissues, not legit... F**kin' BOOTS!

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Totally aggree. As a wise man (Tim brown I think) omnce said, "Shrine = shite" - and oh how true that is! The 1 decent recording is Bobby reed - Caledonia brown, and it's just sod's law that it was never f**king released! Until now.....Yes the shrine boots, and yes...I said boots, not reissues, not legit... F**kin' BOOTS!

come on, some really really good Shrine 45s.. "dream my heart", "stop over looking me", "no more like me" e.tc.

best

Leo

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Well, the fella who bought one cracked but playing copy at around £400 (I think), then another one that seemed reasonably clean at around £500, and then yet another at around £800, that seemed like a decent enough copy, made a pretty good deal I'd say. 3 (yes three) copies off ebay in less than a year and still the copy Manship sold (graded as VG, and it is a styrene 45 remember...) went for £2000+. I am not very keen on the record at all myself (in fact I think Shrine as a label and most of it's musical product is THE most over-rated hype in northern history), and the times I have heard it played out in the UK it cleared the floor, and not very surprising it did either IMO.

Cavaliers.

Lets not forget that until recently there were only a couple of "known" copies, therefore the 3 that went on e-bay this year I thought were relativley cheap and I'm not at all surprised that this fecthed £2k on Manships auction.

I personally love the record, but agree with Christian, I can't see it gaining favour with the dance floor. But lets not forget thare are far more collectors than DJ's buying these 45's and if you're a collector you wouldn't care about northern danceability, just in securing an elusive 45.

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Hello RichS

The reason i said i could understand collectors paying for top end 45's like The Cavaliers is obvious, as a record like this is not going to come on the market very often.

Whether you or i think it's crap has nothing to do with it. Plenty of great cheap records & expensive crap ones, always has been, but this is personal taste.

Veda & Ujima are obviously nowhere near as scarce.

Surely this doesn't need explaining.

Yes 2 and a haif grand is alot of money i couldn't afford it.

John.

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                                                                                                                            Veda &  Ujima are obviously nowhere near as scarce.

               

yeah what about Veda? I know it's not the easiest but i mean it has been around has it not? Mine costed 20£ and that was 2 yrs ago..

best

Leo

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Hello Leolyxxx

Do actually like Veda , great record, it's just that i can remember it on nearly every list i received through the post at one stage for £5, it was like they couldn't shift it.

Did someone start playing it ?

John.

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I suppose the ray Pollard's OK........Can think of far better NS sounds that cost a million times less.......I'll start with sur-names beggining with the letter A LOL

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Hello Leolyxxx

Do actually like Veda , great record, it's just that i can remember it on nearly every list i received through the post at one stage for £5, it was like they couldn't shift it.

Did someone start playing it ?

                                              John.

Exactly, most people i know who collect modern has it it seems. Great 45 imo but very rare? I think not.. but then again surely rarer than Eloise Laws or Gayle Adams ;-)

best

Leo

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Wendy i think you are taking what i said in slightly the wrong way.

sorry :)

that's part of the deal with northern though isnt it - you cant keep everyone happy

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I suppose the ray Pollard's OK........Can think of far better NS sounds that cost a million times less.......I'll start with sur-names beggining with the letter A LOL

I think Ray Pollard "This Time" is quite good and there are some other decent efforts on the label, but overall I personally hear no reason for all the hype around the label when listening to the music. I know many like it, but many others do not.

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And another thing....Can't see why anything by Jesse davis is worth owt, it's all shite IMO!!!!!

So very true! I just never understood how they could be played. What were/are they thinking?! I always push for playing proper soul by black artists, but this is proof that being black is far from enough, even I would rather listen to any half decent northern effort by a white artist rather than this cheesy cornball cabaret music.

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being black is far from enough, even I would rather listen to any half decent northern effort by a white artist

Christian

Can you print this off sign it and send it me please

Cheers mate ;-)))))))

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I also remember a Tim Brown quote along the lines of "the best records always clear the dancefloor anyway" written in the context of not minding dj'ing to an empty floor.

The fact that you WIN an auction also appeals to some people aswell I reckon.

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iT'S ALL QUITE SIMPLE REALLY :

Promoters without a clue, employing D.J's who havn't got a clue, playing played out tunes to punters who havn't got a clue.

It would be nice if :

Promoters with vision, employed D.J's with imagination, to play to punters with open minds. And if the punters don't like what they hear then tell them not to come back next month. If that means reduced numbers, so be it....... at least the

scene stays soulful

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Totally aggree. As a wise man (Tim brown I think) omnce said, "Shrine = shite" - and oh how true that is! The 1 decent recording is Bobby reed - Caledonia brown, and it's just sod's law that it was never f**king released! Until now.....Yes the shrine boots, and yes...I said boots, not reissues, not legit... F**kin' BOOTS!

Must chip in ten pen th worth Totally disagree with the Shrine label being shite there's not many indie labels that relativley speaking have produced so many quality choons

Fall Guy- brilliant, Ray Pollard-great, Eddie Daye-ace,Cairos -brill theyr'e just off the top of my head

DJ

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I've made the trip on a few occasions to the "Seriously Soulful" events in London that Gareth mentioned, the standard of music was really up my street, plus a bundle of things i just didn't know, now for me that keeps my interest fresh and my "enthusiam candle" burning. Also last year (i think) went to the Camel club in Huddersfield (nighter) Hennigan/Dyson plus others, not a full house but the music was exceptional i pestered that small dj booth more than once asking what things were. It's my belief that this is the way forward and perhaps the split between those who crave different and underplayed tunes to those who are happy with the "Top 500" is widening.

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Fall Guy- brilliant, Ray Pollard-great, Eddie Daye-ace,Cairos -brill theyr'e just off the top of my head

Never knew there were so many ways to express the word good ;-)

Oh comon someone had to say it!

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Mr bicknell you say the scene is in the shite , which scene ? oldies clubs are busy ( stoke etc.. then you have lifeline niter on with at least 2 of the all time greatest dj's has residents playing as upfront as it gets and great guests ! the upfront scene is in the shite cos the moaning fuckers never show up ! it's there on a plate top venue top jocks and top music,f*** me what does it take to get folk in free blow jobs ??

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