hullsoul Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I wished I'd scanned the pressing figures on this. Certainly more than hundreds, but less than almost everything - maybe actually everything - on the label. I think it was a 1000, but maybe 2000. Seem to remember Central Park was double that. Hi Can anyone help please?Is Central Park 45 & LP slightly different cuts?Has CP been released on 45 twice?My Uptite demo is #004.Any help much appreciated. Cheers Martyn Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dean Rudland Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 copies of this are there..they just havent been found yet....there was a white demo brought to my house by an old friend of mine who just started to collect the label and he picked this up with consumate ease..of course it hadnt had the big plays at this point tho....of course its tougher than central park but thats a pretty common record usually show in beat up issues so that must have sold locally... as for the fania lp well i suppose it must have been out before the single because the 45 suggests this Not true, the label says 'from the album', they knew that the track was going to be on the album from the moment it was recorded, so they would have put that on the single. It was released to promote the album, probably simultaneously. As the record was pressed in the low thousands, I can't imagine there's that many to find. Harvey's two boxes were probably the last multiples lying around. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dave Pinch Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Not true, the label says 'from the album', they knew that the track was going to be on the album from the moment it was recorded, so they would have put that on the single. It was released to promote the album, probably simultaneously. As the record was pressed in the low thousands, I can't imagine there's that many to find. Harvey's two boxes were probably the last multiples lying around. just speculation on your part methinks dean Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dean Rudland Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 just speculation on your part methinks dean The low thousands? I worked on Fania for four years and had reams of paperwork about pressing numbers. So I think I'm right there. Boxes of multiples that's speculation, but not sure how there would be. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest john s Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 just speculation on your part methinks dean Would have thought Dean might know what he's talking about as he was actually involved with compiling and archiving the label... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dave Pinch Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 i dont think me and dean are disagreeing as such..not even sure why he replied to my initial post...its plain for all to see that both album and 45 are original....tho which came first is not so clear but they were both released around the same time....secondly....there will be a thousand or two copies of this and they have not all been found yet so theres every chance like any rare soul 45 that copies , even a box full could turn up. and third...central park as the previous single sold better as it does turn up beat more than clean...so i`m not sure which part of my earlier post is not true Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Amsterdam Russ Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) Copies not been found yet... Or many copies in collections? Just like Eddie Parker's "I'm Gone" Edited February 3, 2013 by Russell Gilbert Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dave Pinch Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 certainly more harvey avernes than eddie parkers but as we discussed on the eddie thread every big boy dj with a little candy to spend seems to have one Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ritchieandrew Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) Hi Can anyone help please?Is Central Park 45 & LP slightly different cuts?Has CP been released on 45 twice?My Uptite demo is #004.Any help much appreciated. Cheers Martyn Martyn, The one you have is the more common issue by the Harvey Averne Dozen - Uptite 004. The rarer on 45 & L.P. (different) cut is The Harvey Averne Band Uptite - 0015. P.S Theres a VG+ copy of Central Park Uptite 0015 0n E-Bay now, its at £65.74 with 1 Day 14 Hours left at the moment. Update the record has now sold for £97.33 Edited February 6, 2013 by RitchieAndrew 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) As might be expected, Harvey Averne's Latin Jazz tracks were very popular in South America. He had hits in Argentina, his records sold well in Brazil and he was a regular visitor to Puerto Rico. He only stayed with Fania / Uptite for a little over a year end of 68, 69 + a bit of 70). Before mid 1970 he was Liberty / UA's Latin Division main promotions man. He produced the Funky People's UA 45 which I believe was an early April 1970 release. Might be a better bet to search for copies of his rarer outings in those countries. Edited February 4, 2013 by Roburt Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Prophonics 2029 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) Most people I know who have NLTD seem to have had more than one copy, issue or demo?. I see less CP but it did come out twice with a coloured demo and not a white one. Stereo LP mix, mono LP mix single and the other version so 3 in total. Edited February 4, 2013 by Prophonics 2029 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) As I posted up scans of 2 of Harvey's Hot Ice 45's ... thought I'd ask this question ...... A couple of decent soul groups also had 45's out on Heavy Duty Records -- the Topics & Hot Ice (Formations). So I'd guess that the label was definitely New York based .... but was it owned (at least in part) by Harvey ?? Fania Music published the music for some of the tracks, so I guess Harvey fetched some old partners across with him from Uptite / Fania. A couple of Heavy Duty soul outings ............... Edited February 4, 2013 by Roburt Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
hullsoul Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Martyn, The one you have is the more common issue by the Harvey Averne Dozen - Uptite 004. The rarer on 45 & L.P. (different) cut is The Harvey Averne Band Uptite - 0015. P.S Theres a VG+ copy of Central Park Uptite 0015 0n E-Bay now, its at £65.74 with 1 Day 14 Hours left at the moment. Ritchie Thanks a lot,thought it had come out twice.Dave has said that there's three different cuts,so my ears haven't been playing tricks one me & I personally think the #004 version is better then the LP/0015 as it seems to have a fuller backing track?Now I'm saying that & it's my old lugs I'm talking about so I might just be imagining that Cheers Martyn 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
hullsoul Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Most people I know who have NLTD seem to have had more than one copy, issue or demo?. I see less CP but it did come out twice with a coloured demo and not a white one. Stereo LP mix, mono LP mix single and the other version so 3 in total. Dave Thanks for that,got the coloured demo but not sure if my LP is the stereo or mono so will have to dig it out & check.Then track the third version down to compare? Cheers Martyn Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Polyvelts Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 'love never seems to stay the same' although not as uptempo dance wise as NLTD is still a stone killer ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKh8BQudBNc&feature=youtube_gdata_player Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dean Rudland Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 As might be expected, Harvey Averne's Latin Jazz tracks were very popular in South America. He had hits in Argentina, his records sold well in Brazil and he was a regular visitor to Puerto Rico. He only stayed with Fania / Uptite for a little over a year end of 68, 69 + a bit of 70). Before mid 1970 he was Liberty / UA's Latin Division main promotions man. He produced the Funky People's UA 45 which I believe was an early April 1970 release. Might be a better bet to search for copies of his rarer outings in those countries. I think he was there slightly longer. For instance Heavy Duty was a joint venture between Fania and Harvey and he produced the first Ralfi Pagan album on Fania and part of the second. The Harvey Averne Barrio Band record on HD is from 1971. He joined the label in 1967, and co-produced Ray Barretto's 'Acid' LP. Also his Atlantic album Viva Soul was basically a Fania album licensed out. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Thanks for that info Dean,I didn't realise that Fania were involved in Heavy Duty or that Atlantic had 'licensed in' the LP they released. He (Harvey) seemed to fall out with Fania (or he was poached by UA's Mike Lipton) in spring 1970 but I guess a few months at the bigger outfit was enough to convince him that they would never really fully embrace the 'Latin jazz' genre. I know he made foreign trips on behalf of UA (for instance to Puerto Rico in November 1970) but I can't think of too many LJ releases that UA / Liberty actually put any effort into promoting at that time. The company did have its UA International label that put out lots of stuff between the mid 60's & the end of the decade but I get the impression that they licensed stuff from say Brazil & Paraguay to mainly market in other South American territories. Apart from the likes of Fania (& similar concerns) for whom LJ was their main genre, straight jazz labels who saw potential in this 'side branch' and the likes of Atlantic, it seems very few record companies saw it as a musical genre to get involved with. Certainly none of the majors (till Atlantic was absorbed by WEA) seemed interested in LJ artists (unless you lump Chicano artists into that genre). Mind you, CBS did go on to sign up Latin artists based in the Miami area but I guess that was a different type of sound anyway. Edited February 5, 2013 by Roburt 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dean Rudland Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Thanks for that info Dean,I didn't realise that Fania were involved in Heavy Duty or that Atlantic had 'licensed in' the LP they released. He (Harvey) seemed to fall out with Fania (or he was poached by UA's Mike Lipton) in spring 1970 but I guess a few months at the bigger outfit was enough to convince him that they would never really fully embrace the 'Latin jazz' genre. I know he made foreign trips on behalf of UA (for instance to Puerto Rico in November 1970) but I can't think of too many LJ releases that UA / Liberty actually put any effort into promoting at that time. The company did have its UA International label that put out lots of stuff between the mid 60's & the end of the decade but I get the impression that they licensed stuff from say Brazil & Paraguay to mainly market in other South American territories. Apart from the likes of Fania (& similar concerns) for whom LJ was their main genre, straight jazz labels who saw potential in this 'side branch' and the likes of Atlantic, it seems very few record companies saw it as a musical genre to get involved with. Certainly none of the majors (till Atlantic was absorbed by WEA) seemed interested in LJ artists (unless you lump Chicano artists into that genre). Mind you, CBS did go on to sign up Latin artists based in the Miami area but I guess that was a different type of sound anyway. That's actually something I hadn't put together. I always presumed the UA bit was after Fania, but perhaps it makes sense that it was a short interlude before his final splurge at Fania. The players on the Barrio Band album are basically the Fania All Stars, and that shot of Harvey from Our Latin Thing shows him as the musical director of that band. Harvey is a lovely fellow who I interviewed extensively a few years back. At the age of 76/77 he is still very active. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Further to the above ..... I guess labels such as United Artists came to Latin jazz quite early as they had been involved quite strongly in the early 60's when the 'Bossa Nova' craze was sweeping across the US. They had signed up artists such as LeRoy Holmes and he had gone on to make movie soundtracks for them and in his role of musical director at UA had produced stuff on many of the companies LJ artists. Mind you, comparing 'Bossa Nova' style tracks with the sort of stuff Fania was putting out is definitely a case of 'chalk & cheese'. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Most people I know who have NLTD seem to have had more than one copy, issue or demo?. I see less CP but it did come out twice with a coloured demo and not a white one. Stereo LP mix, mono LP mix single and the other version so 3 in total. Do you mean NLTD or CP? I know CP came out on a white demo because I've got one. CP NLTD Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Prophonics 2029 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Do you mean NLTD or CP? I know CP came out on a white demo because I've got one. CP NLTD Yep CP is a coloured demo as well, will check what one it is but think its Rosemarys Baby one. Is it Marimba's on this track that makes it so good + the voice. Edited February 5, 2013 by Prophonics 2029 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
hullsoul Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Yep CP is a coloured demo as well, will check what one it is but think its Rosemarys Baby one. Is it Marimba's on this track that makes it so good + the voice. Dave Yes it has "Rosemary's Baby" on the other side. Cheers Martyn Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Yep CP is a coloured demo as well, will check what one it is but think its Rosemarys Baby one. Is it Marimba's on this track that makes it so good + the voice. Ah right I think I misunderstood. I thought you meant it came out on a coloured demo only. Like you pointed out it's odd both WD and coloured being pressed but never thought to question it. I wonder if the #0015 version appeared on all formats? The one on ebay appears to be an issue. Really great tune, though the more I hear it the more I prefer the LP/0015 take. The guitar takes it for me. Edited February 5, 2013 by Jamie Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mick Sway Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 According to john B, the font on latin issues for me, and from what Ive seen sold on the bay over the last couple of years, Central park is rarer than, never learned to......, but obviously demand drives price, not obscurity. Can't help but be reminded of Archie Bell "Tighten Up" in the riff. Too-oon though! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Get involved with Soul Source
Add your comments now
Join Soul Source
A free & easy soul music affair!
Join Soul Source now!Log in to Soul Source
Jump right back in!
Log in now!