This is a genuine issue ? Styrene ZTSC stamped ... tons of pinkies not many grey ones about ... 

Maybe Columbia Terre Haute ran out of pink paper near the end of the first print run?  I've seen enough of the gray ones to indicate that they don't represent a small, test run.  Running out of a certain coloured paper and using another random colour has been mentioned by pressing plant personnel as the reason for that several times. 

Actually the firsts 3 Revilot (Rose Batiste + 2 D.B.) numbers came out first on grey paper for stockers. Both Darrell Banks pink ones are the continuous runs due to demand switching from grey to pink (good seller with teeny girls maybe ? LOL) and then right after for the further releases they switched to the "splashed colors" label.

Few other later Revilot numbers were released on the pink label. But they were vinyl issues from another pressing plant (don't have them to check, could be 'Nashville' ?) who likely couldn't get the "splashed colors" label variations for what ever reason.

Edited July 1, 20178 yr by tlscapital

37 minutes ago, RobbK said:

Maybe Columbia Terre Haute ran out of pink paper near the end of the first print run?  I've seen enough of the gray ones to indicate that they don't represent a small, test run.  Running out of a certain coloured paper and using another random colour has been mentioned by pressing plant personnel as the reason for that several times. 

But why switch back to grey after the second release for the third release.  I always thought the grey ones were locally pressed detroit copies and the pink ones were pressed for national distribution after picking up airplay. As far as i know there are no pink label copies of rose batiste.

Edited July 1, 20178 yr by Kegsy

First 3 numbers (wherever is Revilot 202 ?) came out in white as promos and grey as stockers. None of the followings have a white label promo variation after that. And they still all are from the same pressing plant I'd have believe. Only thing is 'our love is (in the pocket)' had a run of pressings with a hand written matrix at one time instead of the machine ones. Maybe a lathe/stamp issue of some sort... This means that both Darrel Banks where continuously pressed.

 

Edited July 1, 20178 yr by tlscapital

6 hours ago, SoulBoyRecords said:

This is a genuine issue ? Styrene ZTSC stamped ... tons of pinkies not many grey ones about ... 

Styrene, stamped original pink or grey, there are some white single sided demos about they're worth having.

1 hour ago, Chris L said:

Styrene, stamped original pink or grey, there are some white single sided demos about they're worth having.

I've never come across a single sided demo. I'd be interested to see one if possible.Do you have one? Is the label layout any different? Are they vinyl or styrene?

Cheers.

KB

5 hours ago, Kegsy said:

But why switch back to grey after the second release for the third release.  I always thought the grey ones were locally pressed detroit copies and the pink ones were pressed for national distribution after picking up airplay. As far as i know there are no pink label copies of rose batiste.

None of them were pressed in Detroit.  They were all pressed at Columbia's Terre Haute, Indiana plant.  Yes, it makes sense that the gray ones were first.  I only saw the pink ones in Chicago and L.A.  So, maybe the grays were distributed only in Detroit, and the pinks elsewhere.

I have two of the pinks both with different credits etc

1 hour ago, TOAD said:

I have two of the pinks both with different credits etc

Pictures/scans ?

14 hours ago, bo diddley said:

I've never come across a single sided demo. I'd be interested to see one if possible.Do you have one? Is the label layout any different? Are they vinyl or styrene?

Cheers.

KB

I had one years ago, styrene, was rough but still sold it for about + - £100, I'll see if I can dig out a photo of it I may still have one.

13 hours ago, RobbK said:

None of them were pressed in Detroit.  They were all pressed at Columbia's Terre Haute, Indiana plant.  Yes, it makes sense that the gray ones were first.  I only saw the pink ones in Chicago and L.A.  So, maybe the grays were distributed only in Detroit, and the pinks elsewhere.

It was a good seller on Billboard, Cashbox and in the R&B charts, wouldn't it have made more sense for Columbia to press more locally rather than ship?

 

43 minutes ago, Chris L said:

I had one years ago, styrene, was rough but still sold it for about + - £100, I'll see if I can dig out a photo of it I may still have one.

This is the scan for single side promo on discogs, whether this is right or not?????

2 hours ago, chalky said:

It was a good seller on Billboard, Cashbox and in the R&B charts, wouldn't it have made more sense for Columbia to press more locally rather than ship?

 

It WAS a good seller.  But, both the gray and pink pressings have a ZTSC code, indicating they were pressed in Columbia's Terre Haute, Indiana plant, which is pretty darn close to both Detroit AND Chicago (I'd guess less than 2 hours by truck).  The particular deal that Don Davis had with Columbia, and their quality of pressing and mastering probably meant more to Revilot (Don & LeBaron) than the small shipping cost. On the other hand, knowing what I know about how fast styrene wears, I might have chosen ARP and gone local.  On the OTHER hand, the styrene was probably cheaper, and may have saved them money there.  That's a question for Don or LeBaron.  But, sadly, one they can't answer.

 

What do you mean by "Columbia press more locally?"  They didn't have a plant in Detroit.  They were close to both Detroit and Chicago, and had a New York plant.  Seems to me they were pretty well located to compete with RCA.  What other major had better pressing locations?

Edited July 2, 20178 yr by RobbK

38 minutes ago, RobbK said:

It WAS a good seller.  But, both the gray and pink pressings have a ZTSC code, indicating they were pressed in Columbia's Terre Haute, Indiana plant, which is pretty darn close to both Detroit AND Chicago (I'd guess less than 2 hours by truck).  The particular deal that Don Davis had with Columbia, and their quality of pressing and mastering probably meant more to Revilot (Don & LeBaron) than the small shipping cost. On the other hand, knowing what I know about how fast styrene wears, I might have chosen ARP and gone local.  On the OTHER hand, the styrene was probably cheaper, and may have saved them money there.  That's a question for Don or LeBaron.  But, sadly, one they can't answer.

 

What do you mean by "Columbia press more locally?"  They didn't have a plant in Detroit.  They were close to both Detroit and Chicago, and had a New York plant.  Seems to me they were pretty well located to compete with RCA.  What other major had better pressing locations?

It was said the "C" for Chicago was for accounting purposes only? They also had plants in NJ, Nashville & Hollywood didn't they? Be easier to ship plates out to those plants rather than ship 1000s of discs?

4 hours ago, chalky said:

This is the scan for single side promo on discogs, whether this is right or not?????

Don't think mine was in such good condition but it did have date stamp on it.

3 hours ago, chalky said:

It was said the "C" for Chicago was for accounting purposes only? They also had plants in NJ, Nashville & Hollywood didn't they? Be easier to ship plates out to those plants rather than ship 1000s of discs?

The "T" it the run out  Followed by any number of 1s)  out also signifies Terre Haute.

 

On 01/07/2017 at 16:39, tlscapital said:

Actually the firsts 3 Revilot (Rose Batiste + 2 D.B.) numbers came out first on grey paper for stockers. Both Darrell Banks pink ones are the continuous runs due to demand switching from grey to pink (good seller with teeny girls maybe ? LOL) and then right after for the further releases they switched to the "splashed colors" label.

Few other later Revilot numbers were released on the pink label. But they were vinyl issues from another pressing plant (don't have them to check, could be 'Nashville' ?) who likely couldn't get the "splashed colors" label variations for what ever reason.

The label switched back to pink during the production of  The Parliaments Time c/w Good Old Music (some are pink, some are multi). The pink is vinyl while the multi col is obviously styrene. I only have the pink. Run out info shows Bell Sound and ARP stamps. So mastered at Bell and pressed at ARP?

Why the switch  from Columbia? I'm guessing money issues? Also the pink label omits production credits

Edited July 3, 20178 yr by maslar
typo

4 hours ago, chalky said:

It was said the "C" for Chicago was for accounting purposes only? They also had plants in NJ, Nashville & Hollywood didn't they? Be easier to ship plates out to those plants rather than ship 1000s of discs?

The "C" probably stands for Chicago, as records pressed at Terre Haute were Mastered at Columbia's Chicago studio, given that the "T" for Terre Haute was also present on the record.

8 hours ago, RobbK said:

It WAS a good seller.  But, both the gray and pink pressings have a ZTSC code, indicating they were pressed in Columbia's Terre Haute, Indiana plant, which is pretty darn close to both Detroit AND Chicago (I'd guess less than 2 hours by truck).  The particular deal that Don Davis had with Columbia, and their quality of pressing and mastering probably meant more to Revilot (Don & LeBaron) than the small shipping cost. On the other hand, knowing what I know about how fast styrene wears, I might have chosen ARP and gone local.  On the OTHER hand, the styrene was probably cheaper, and may have saved them money there.  That's a question for Don or LeBaron.  But, sadly, one they can't answer.

 

What do you mean by "Columbia press more locally?"  They didn't have a plant in Detroit.  They were close to both Detroit and Chicago, and had a New York plant.  Seems to me they were pretty well located to compete with RCA.  What other major had better pressing locations?

I would put it at more like three hours to Chicago and longer to Detroit. Terre Haute was well placed to serve other markets such as Indianapolis and Cincincinnati as well as Chicago and Detroit and must have been chosen as a pressing location on the basis of transport costs. The records from there all seem to be styrene as opposed to vinyl - maybe the potentially big sellers ended up being pressed here as it was a later plant more geared to mass production using cheaper styrene. Earlier vinyl pressing plants could not keep up with the growth of major labels' output so styrene using plants popped up to cater for regional dustribution. Darrell Banks was a massive seller and barely a week goes by without one being offered for sale somewhere

11 hours ago, maslar said:

The label switched back to pink during the production of  The Parliaments Time c/w Good Old Music (some are pink, some are multi). The pink is vinyl while the multi col is obviously styrene. I only have the pink. Run out info shows Bell Sound and ARP stamps. So mastered at Bell and pressed at ARP?

Why the switch  from Columbia? I'm guessing money issues? Also the pink label omits production credits

All those (last numbers from the catalogue) Revilot are pink labeled vinyls ARP presses. Only Revilot 222, J.J. Barnes, had both a styrene multi "splashed" colors label on styrene and a vinyl pink labelled issue.

1 hour ago, tlscapital said:

All those (last numbers from the catalogue) Revilot are pink labeled vinyls ARP presses. Only Revilot 222, J.J. Barnes, had both a styrene multi "splashed" colors label on styrene and a vinyl pink labelled issue.

Parliaments 223 also had both.

I really must pay more attention, particularly to my own records!

I've just checked and my "Somebody.." demo is the single sided one. However, while the label is just blank white, it actually plays "Somebody.." on both sides.

I also have the Pink Issue. The numbers are Stamped on the Issue and Hand-Written on the demo.

As mentioned previously above, different credits. Jobette is on my issue and TM Parmailer on the demo

 

6 minutes ago, bo diddley said:

I really must pay more attention, particularly to my own records!

....

As mentioned previously above, different credits. Jobette is on my issue and TM Parmailer on the demo

 

Yes indeed, same here at times.

...

  

On 01/07/2017 at 21:00, bo diddley said:

I've never come across a single sided demo. I'd be interested to see one if possible.Do you have one? Is the label layout any different? Are they vinyl or styrene?

Cheers.

KB

It's not single sided it's same track both sides I think

is there a boot of somebody in pink?

1 minute ago, jules said:

is there a boot of somebody in pink?

Never seen one... Yet ! In this day and age of outrageous forgery re-issues and bootlegging, anything is possible.

On 7/3/2017 at 16:09, Pete S said:

It's not single sided it's same track both sides I think

No it was single sided, I've had both types.

Terre Haute-to-Detroit drive significantly longer than mentioned above, FYI. 

4 minutes ago, weingarden said:

Terre Haute-to-Detroit drive significantly longer than mentioned above, FYI. 

That would be about 20 minutes here in the UK lol !! 

 

3 hours ago, weingarden said:

Terre Haute-to-Detroit drive significantly longer than mentioned above, FYI. 

Sorry!  I'm even losing long term memory now.  It's quite a bit longer than the drive I used to take from the Chicago south suburbs to Detroit 2 Saturdays a month, which was over 3.7 hours.  I don't know why I remembered Terre Haute be so much farther north than it really is.  It's actually in the southern half of Indiana.  But, it's still reasonably close to both Chicago and Detroit for truck deliveries.  Americans think nothing of driving 350 miles.

On 01/07/2017 at 16:48, Kegsy said:

But why switch back to grey after the second release for the third release.  I always thought the grey ones were locally pressed detroit copies and the pink ones were pressed for national distribution after picking up airplay. As far as i know there are no pink label copies of rose batiste.

I  suppose one theory could be that that initial batches of the first three releases   were done together.  I would suspect if this was the case 101 would have a larger quantity. After all, you're not going to start a new label with just one definite release in the pipeline - And the two DBs did chart very close together. This may also explain how two consective later releaes went from the mutli coloured label/styrene to pink label/vinyl.