With the wealth of knowledge and experience this site has to draw on , I wanted to ask a question regarding sounds that where played at the "Wheel" through the years.

I'm sure this may have been asked before at some point in some thread , but what are the top sounds that maybe haven't had much play or re-release over the years. Everyone's has different opinions on what constitutes a good track so don't feel you have to mention the most popular.

Are there any that have been forgotten slightly, or not been listed on any compilations through the years or maybe just not been seen to be that playable ?

Any help from the older generation on here would be appreciated . 

Maybe nowadays I should not be seen as being ageist , so if you never went but still have the knowledge, please feel free respond.    

    

More:-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That enough yet? 😂

Fine excuse to put this one up. Bit too pacy for today but just love it. The whole arrangement is great but it's the vocal arrangement that gets me.

 

 

18 minutes ago, jam66 said:

Fine excuse to put this one up. Bit too pacy for today but just love it. The whole arrangement is great but it's the vocal arrangement that gets me.

 

 

Quality. Oh to be sixteen and chemically enhanced again, just one more time.

Just now, Joey said:

Quality. Oh to be sixteen and chemically enhanced again, just one more time.

Do it........go on yer know yer wanna.

1 minute ago, jam66 said:

Do it........go on yer know yer wanna.

What....with these knees? 😂😂😂😂😂 plus, where on earth am I going to find the quality of product once manufactured by the likes of Smith, Kline & French, and Riker these days? 

1 hour ago, Joey said:

My kinda girl 😂😂😂😂😂😂

BTW, would that be the branch of Boots just along from where Woolies used to be? If so, I "could", if pushed, relate a story about a certain anonymous someone who was chased down the street by a member of Boots staff, after liberating a full box of Benzadrax inhalers one Saturday teatime.  Such jolly japes young people used to get up to!

1 minute ago, Joey said:

What....with these knees? 😂😂😂😂😂 plus, where on earth am I going to find the quality of product once manufactured by the likes of Smith, Kline & French, and Riker these days? 

It's knees, hips and feet with me so if you find out do let me know 

 

Haven't been anywhere for years so went to a local 'do' the other month only to find I'm now a spectator. Mind you the beer was fine, every cloud and what have you.

On 14/02/2018 at 13:32, Joey said:

Had a bit of a "discussion" with a younger soulie many years ago, who was adamant that the oldies were all played out. "Au contraire" said I, actually, you haven't even heard them all yet.To illustrate my point I offered two instrumentals which were both played at the Wheel, and other clubs in the late 60s and early 70s. For your delectation and amusement, behold:-

No need to even make mention of Green Door, Scratchy, 6x6, Philly dog, and the multitude of others. 

Trampoline, great instrumental and doesn't get played anywhere. I don't think there are many Dj's on the scene that actually went there, so probably don't know the record or are old enough.That said in no way am I having a dig at all my fellow Dj's out there.One of my all time fav instrumentals fron the wheel is makin' up time by the holidays. 

 

14 minutes ago, jam66 said:

It's knees, hips and feet with me so if you find out do let me know 

 

Haven't been anywhere for years so went to a local 'do' the other month only to find I'm now a spectator. Mind you the beer was fine, every cloud and what have you.

Lol. Both knees operated on, left hip on the way out, and collapsed arches/metatarsalgia  on both feet. Basically....buggered! No longer go anywhere, mainly due to being exiled "beyond the wall". But if I did go anywhere, I'd be a spectator also!  Age can be a bugger sometimes, eh? 😂

1 minute ago, Mr Fred said:

Trampoline, great instrumental and doesn't get played anywhere. I don't think there are many Dj's on the scene that actually went there, so probably don't know the record or are old enough.That said in no way am I having a dig at all my fellow Dj's out there.One of my all time fav instrumentals fron the wheel is makin' up time by the holidays. 

 

Trampoline used to be one of my faves. Think you're right about current DJs. The Holidays? Clean forgotten about it. Think I had it on Polydor many years ago. 

33 minutes ago, Joey said:

Trampoline used to be one of my faves. Think you're right about current DJs. The Holidays? Clean forgotten about it. Think I had it on Polydor many years ago. 

HI Joey, I've got the Hollidays on Golden World.

I used to live in Huddersfield and there was a large contingent of "Soulies " who used to get across to the wheel every weekend. There were a few clubs in Huddersfield where they used to frequent. The main one at the time was The Hi Fi Club situated on Trinity Street which was the main road to Halifax coming out of Huddersfield.  Whilst I never went to the wheel I knocked about with those people and grew up with them.We would always look up to them and were an inspiration in the dress styles, haircuts and their way of life. The Twisted Wheel from whitworth street music is what I grew up with and close to my heart.here are a few sounds that don't get played anymore for one reason or another:- Edwin Starr Backstreets both vocal and instrumental. Clifford Curry:- I can't get a hold of myself. Jerryo:- Karate Boogaloo.  Alvin Cash & the Crawlers:- Twine Time.Gene Chandler & Barbara Acklin From the teacher to the preacher.  The list goes on. But yes I think a lot of wheel sounds can get played a lot but there are many others that can be played that would be a breath of fresh air. All the best Fred. 

Edited February 16, 20187 yr by Mr Fred

This topic has been sort of posted before (with a tad of a few cynical comments to boot) but one member posted a link which may (or not be of interest?)

 

https://home.btconnect.com/twistedwheel/Playlist/playlist.htmlhttps://home.btconnect.com/twistedwheel/Playlist/playlist.html

 

Over 50 years ago since the original

I'm 69 and going to more venues all over the country than I did when I was 17

The Wheel is one of my  favourites and I regularly travel up from the Midlands.

Keep up the good work Pete

Paul (AKA Mod 66)

 

9 hours ago, back street blue said:

went to listen to Bill Honey (Shaw & Royton Wheelers) records in about '75, he did a few spots at the Wheel and said Koko Taylor's "Wang dang doodle" was his signature track. He told tales of a Castella Tube full of blueys for ten bob and I came away with two LP's, James Carr's "Dark end of the street" (for "that's all I want to know") and a Soul Sisters' album for this track which he said was big there...............

 

Soul Sisters ... great track ! 

Ive got a mint copy of that album also signed by Terry and Ann ... doesn’t get played enough ... might just get a spin tonight 👍

 

Another classic from back in the day

36 minutes ago, soulatthedale said:

Another classic from back in the day

Yet another one I haven't heard in donkeys years! Sweet! 

1 hour ago, stevegods said:

Soul Sisters ... great track ! 

Ive got a mint copy of that album also signed by Terry and Ann ... doesn’t get played enough ... might just get a spin tonight 👍

 

Beautiful item. How many of these do you ever see nowadays?

8 hours ago, Mr Fred said:

HI Joey, I've got the Hollidays on Golden World.

Yeah, I've seen plenty of GW issues and demo's over the years. The Polydor release is now fairly rare I think. Rarer on the issue than demo if I remember correctly. Couple of hundred at todays prices maybe? 

8 hours ago, Mr Fred said:

I used to live in Huddersfield and there was a large contingent of "Soulies " who used to get across to the wheel every weekend. There were a few clubs in Huddersfield where they used to frequent. The main one at the time was The Hi Fi Club situated on Trinity Street which was the main road to Halifax coming out of Huddersfield.  Whilst I never went to the wheel I knocked about with those people and grew up with them.We would always look up to them and were an inspiration in the dress styles, haircuts and their way of life. The Twisted Wheel from whitworth street music is what I grew up with and close to my heart.here are a few sounds that don't get played anymore fore one reason or amother:- Edwin Starr Backstreets both vocal and instrumental. Clifford Curry:- I can't get a hold of myself. Jerryo:- Karate Boogaloo.  Alvin Cash & the Crawlers:- Twine Time.Gene Chandler & Barbara Acklin From the teacher to the preacher.  The list goes on. But yes I think a lot of wheel sounds can get played a lot but there are many others that can be played that would be a breath of fresh air. All the best Fred. 

Never went to many places on the other side of the Pennines. I did the Central a few times in the early days, and once went to the Okeh soul club. Was it in Keighley? Time and distance dulls the memory! The Wheel had a very similar effect on me. It wasnt just the music, but the whole lifestyle/dress thing also. I still sported a suede head and long sidies in 74, when everyone else had hair down to their shoulders. In fact, I'd probably say that it still colours much of who I am even to this day. And yeah, even though many old Wheel sounds are indeed played today, they're usually the usual ones. This thread, if nothing else, shows what could be done by a DJ who actually THOUGHT about what to play in his oldies spot.

On 14/02/2018 at 13:32, Joey said:

Had a bit of a "discussion" with a younger soulie many years ago, who was adamant that the oldies were all played out. "Au contraire" said I, actually, you haven't even heard them all yet.To illustrate my point I offered two instrumentals which were both played at the Wheel, and other clubs in the late 60s and early 70s. For your delectation and amusement, behold:-

No need to even make mention of Green Door, Scratchy, 6x6, Philly dog, and the multitude of others. 

So, please tell me, any member who was there when TW Scratchy got played first, what the dancefloor reaction was?

Heard this first around 76, and I've no idea why I love it? It's unique and mad as hell.

Nothing much more 'fringe' ever been played than this. The breaking DJ must have had nerves of steel, banging this on after William Bell, Otis, Sam etc

 

Ed

Just now, tomangoes said:

So, please tell me, any member who was there when TW Scratchy got played first, what the dancefloor reaction was?

Heard this first around 76, and I've no idea why I love it? It's unique and mad as hell.

Nothing much more 'fringe' ever been played than this. The breaking DJ must have had nerves of steel, banging this on after William Bell, Otis, Sam etc

 

Ed

Trust me, Scratchy was BIG. Played in all the soul clubs, and also all the local Manchester area youth clubs. Plus, believe it or not, I remember hearing it get plenty of plays in the mainstream Mecca ballroom type places in the early 70s. 

I think we have to remember exactly what the roots of the scene actually were. It grew out of the mod scene, and was basically a youth DANCE sub-culture. It just happened that the majority of the dance numbers were recorded by black American artists. I don't think there was ever a conscious decision made for it to become a soul scene. It just morphed into it. The sounds played in the mid to late 60's were pretty eclectic to say the least. Only later did the playlists become more exclusively filled with "soul" tunes. I'm sure some may disagree, or have a different take on things. Just my two pennorth, for what its worth.

 

Hi Joey,

Just wanted to throw my two pennies into the ring regarding Levine.

It does not matter to me if he will be remembered as a saint or a sinner the fact of the matter is that the tunes he was playing in the Mecca (collected on his US trips) are still the mainstay of the up-tempo soul scene all these years later.

I was at the wheel a couple of weeks ago and John Kane played a couple of what I call Levine classics and the floor erupted !!!

 

God save Levine.

Jonny.

3 minutes ago, HXTFC1 said:

Hi Joey,

Just wanted to throw my two pennies into the ring regarding Levine.

It does not matter to me if he will be remembered as a saint or a sinner the fact of the matter is that the tunes he was playing in the Mecca (collected on his US trips) are still the mainstay of the up-tempo soul scene all these years later.

I was at the wheel a couple of weeks ago and John Kane played a couple of what I call Levine classics and the floor erupted !!!

 

God save Levine.

Jonny.

Hi Jonny,

For every person who has an opinion like mine, there's one who has an opinion such as yours. I think that both camps are perfectly entitled to their views, and lets face it, forty odd years on from the events, those respective views are now probably so firmly entrenched as to be immovable. Since 1974, the man has been the most divisive figure on the scene, for one reason or another. I did mention earlier in the thread that he was responsible, as you say, for many of the sounds which lit up the golden period between 72 and 74, and are still monster tunes to this day. For that he deserves enormous credit. The flip side to all this, as I said, was that he was also responsible for a lot of what happened to the scene afterwards. None of it being, in the opinion of many, beneficial, and for that he must also accept the opprobrium and distaste which is thrown his way. 

Again, and as mentioned earlier in the thread, I apologise for any hurt and discomfort my views may give to people. It is however, my view, and has been for now almost half a century. I wont change it, as I'm sure yourself, and others, will not change their own views.

As an aside, Halifax? used to go out with a very pretty little girl from there called Julie, back in 74. Buggered of I can remember her surname though! Dark curly hair, tiny and trim, and an extremely pretty face.

God damn Levine :-)

Best regards,

Joey.

can we get back to the topic - as in 'wheel sounds'

best if start a new topic if want to talk about other things

cheers now

Would it be correct to say that the Wheel played 'dance records' regardless of whether it was a black soul artist or not?

Were the punters divided on this principle, or pretty much in agreement?

The reason I ask is that when I joined 'the scene' around 76 and started going to nighters etc, it was apparent that records like Tim Tam, Peggy March, Muriel Day got a load of bad press because they simply were 'too poppy'. Nobody can deny they were 'danceable'.

That seems to contrast the earlier scene with Scratchy, Fife Piper, and such like that have no 'soul' content, but great dancers.

Ed

this one always reminds me of the wheel, what an absolute monster it was. The sheer power in the backing track I irresistible, such a common record now but hard to find back in the day.

 

Dave Banks

12 hours ago, Joey said:

BTW, would that be the branch of Boots just along from where Woolies used to be? If so, I "could", if pushed, relate a story about a certain anonymous someone who was chased down the street by a member of Boots staff, after liberating a full box of Benzadrax inhalers one Saturday teatime.  Such jolly japes young people used to get up to!

haha....yeah thereabouts lol

I assume this was a Wheel spin?.........first heard it in M's...........

 

8 minutes ago, back street blue said:

I assume this was a Wheel spin?.........first heard it in M's...........

 

Played on UK Pye Int. though.

Edited February 16, 20187 yr by Kegsy

Another one that's totally forgotten nowadays as a wheel sound.

 

1 hour ago, mike said:

can we get back to the topic - as in 'wheel sounds'

best if start a new topic if want to talk about other things

cheers now

Agreed. I really didn't want to go there in the first place. Apologies. Consider me suitably chastised. :-)

57 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

That seems to contrast the earlier scene with Scratchy, Fife Piper, and such like that have no 'soul' content, but great dancers.

Ed

just read back and see you already mentioned FP, apologise for my tardiness!!

On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 14:08, Joey said:

Compared to today, or even compared to 72-73, very few "imports" were played. 

By 1969, imports were easy to find in the UK, and many of the tracks played at the Wheel were imports.

This included bankrupt stock from the likes of Chess/Checker, which could be bought from the US for pennies if you knew where to go.

As a fr'instance, "In Orbit" by Joy Lovejoy was one sound found in that bankrupt stock.

Interestingly, Abadi was to claim, many years later, that his collection of records that he bought for the Wheel could be identified by the fact that they had a hole drilled through them.

This was a fanciful twisting of facts on Abadi's part, but what he was referring to was the "cut-out" hole in US pressed 45s.

Even though Abadi mangled the truth, it does indicate, though, that US pressings were a common sight in the DJ cage at the Wheel.

 

58 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

Would it be correct to say that the Wheel played 'dance records' regardless of whether it was a black soul artist or not?

Were the punters divided on this principle, or pretty much in agreement?

The reason I ask is that when I joined 'the scene' around 76 and started going to nighters etc, it was apparent that records like Tim Tam, Peggy March, Muriel Day got a load of bad press because they simply were 'too poppy'. Nobody can deny they were 'danceable'.

That seems to contrast the earlier scene with Scratchy, Fife Piper, and such like that have no 'soul' content, but great dancers.

Ed

Yes Ed, you would be 100% correct to say that. The "scene" wasn't, to begin with, a soul scene. As with many early youth sub cultures, it was originally based around danceable records. The early days of the Wheel were more RnB than anything else, and you have to remember that just about all the white artists of the time took their musical influences from black American artists. You just have to look at the acts who appeared at the Wheel. the punters, as far as I can recall, just wanted to dance. White or black, it made no difference, as long as the white sounds sounded, at least in part, black.

The difference, to me, between the blue eyed stuff played in the early 70s, and those played from 75 onwards at the Casino, wasn't danceability, but quality. Gary Lewis cannot be compared to Dean Parrish, Nosmo King to Mitch Ryder, Peggy March to Evie Sands, Muriel day to Dusty, Tim-Tam to the Spencer Davis Group, etc. etc. Just my opinion, (some may disagree), but this was one of the major factors in me quitting the scene at the end of 75, after coming to the conclusion that the "Northern" scene was dead, and had been replaced with something quite similar, but very different.

BTW, even back then I hated Fife Piper. Still do!!!!!

12 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

Another one that's totally forgotten nowadays as a wheel sound.

 

one of my all time favourites. British demo went for almost £400 on eBay recently. Ouch! Why oh why did I sell up all those years ago?

12 minutes ago, soash said:

By 1969, imports were easy to find in the UK, and many of the tracks played at the Wheel were imports.

This included bankrupt stock from the likes of Chess/Checker, which could be bought from the US for pennies if you knew where to go.

As a fr'instance, "In Orbit" by Joy Lovejoy was one sound found in that bankrupt stock.

Interestingly, Abadi was to claim, many years later, that his collection of records that he bought for the Wheel could be identified by the fact that they had a hole drilled through them.

This was a fanciful twisting of facts on Abadi's part, but what he was referring to was the "cut-out" hole in US pressed 45s.

Even though Abadi mangled the truth, it does indicate, though, that US pressings were a common sight in the DJ cage at the Wheel.

 

OK, I'll happily stand semi-corrected. Most of us kids couldn't access anything imported until late 71, or even afterwards. To my recollection, all the sounds we're speaking about, or at least 99% of them, had UK releases, and formed just about all of everyones record collection/DJ box. I know my entire collection was British, as were those of all my friends. My first experience with imports must have been late 72. Even then, it was a moot point as to whether they were actually original kosher imports, or something else. Turns out most of them were indeed something else!

BTW, yes, Joy Lovejoy should have rung a bell with me, as I remember a family holiday to Rhyl in late 71(?), when that was one of the main tunes in The Orbit disco, underneath the Palace hotel. 

Edited February 16, 20187 yr by Guest

4 minutes ago, Joey said:

Yes Ed, you would be 100% correct to say that. The "scene" wasn't, to begin with, a soul scene. As with many early youth sub cultures, it was originally based around danceable records. The early days of the Wheel were more RnB than anything else, and you have to remember that just about all the white artists of the time took their musical influences from black American artists. You just have to look at the acts who appeared at the Wheel. the punters, as far as I can recall, just wanted to dance. White or black, it made no difference, as long as the white sounds sounded, at least in part, black.

The difference, to me, between the blue eyed stuff played in the early 70s, and those played from 75 onwards at the Casino, wasn't danceability, but quality. Gary Lewis cannot be compared to Dean Parrish, Nosmo King to Mitch Ryder, Peggy March to Evie Sands, Muriel day to Dusty, Tim-Tam to the Spencer Davis Group, etc. etc. Just my opinion, (some may disagree), but this was one of the major factors in me quitting the scene at the end of 75, after coming to the conclusion that the "Northern" scene was dead, and had been replaced with something quite similar, but very different.

BTW, even back then I hated Fife Piper. Still do!!!!!

I think in hindsight, your musical tastes and observations develop from say being a 14 year old to a 20 year old, so young kids who got fed on Marie Day, Gary Lewis, thought it was great, whilst the more mature kids were giving some serious WTF is this crap.

Quality shines through and I'm sure the WORST of the Wheel, Torch, Mecca, Wigan, SAMs, Cleggy will never get rejuvenated, but the BEST will always stand the test of time.

Who decides what fits where is another story, and great debate!

Ed

10 minutes ago, Joey said:

 

BTW, even back then I hated Fife Piper. Still do!!!!!

Sadly, there are two quite different versions of the record. One of them is a shite rerecording of the good one.

The good one (on St Clair in US and Pye Int in UK) is, for me, a great sound - the other (HBR) is outstandingly bad, but that doesn't stop it being played nowadays.

Even heard it at the Wheel revival in Manchester. Awful!!

1 minute ago, tomangoes said:

I think in hindsight, your musical tastes and observations develop from say being a 14 year old to a 20 year old, so young kids who got fed on Marie Day, Gary Lewis, thought it was great, whilst the more mature kids were giving some serious WTF is this crap.

Quality shines through and I'm sure the WORST of the Wheel, Torch, Mecca, Wigan, SAMs, Cleggy will never get rejuvenated, but the BEST will always stand the test of time.

Who decides what fits where is another story, and great debate!

Ed

Cant help but agree yet again. Anyone reading the musings of old farts regarding the Wheel/Torch?Junction would think that every tune was s stormer. We conveniently overlook the fact that some crap was also played there on occasion.

1 minute ago, soash said:

Sadly, there are two quite different versions of the record. One of them is a shite rerecording of the good one.

The good one (on St Clair in US and Pye Int in UK) is, for me, a great sound - the other (HBR) is outstandingly bad, but that doesn't stop it being played nowadays.

Even heard it at the Wheel revival in Manchester. Awful!!

lol......got it on HBR and love it......beggars can't be choosey 

1 minute ago, back street blue said:

lol......got it on HBR and love it......beggars can't be choosey 

Have a listen to the St Clair version if you can. It will blow your socks off!! 

2 minutes ago, soash said:

Sadly, there are two quite different versions of the record. One of them is a shite rerecording of the good one.

The good one (on St Clair in US and Pye Int in UK) is, for me, a great sound - the other (HBR) is outstandingly bad, but that doesn't stop it being played nowadays.

Even heard it at the Wheel revival in Manchester. Awful!!

Yes, two different versions, one even worse than the other! I think there's been a thread on this very subject recently. I had it on Pye International, both and issue and demo. Quite frankly, I only had these as they were rare even back then. Just needed to be a part of my collection. As before, I truly hated the bloody tune. Don't rightly know why either, as I can't explain what it is about it that I hate, but it was my initial reaction when I heard it for the first time, and I remain averse to it to this day. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

1 minute ago, soash said:

Have a listen to the St Clair version if you can. It will blow your socks off!! 

posted YT clip above of that cut......much better as you say 

I wonder if what we are missing when we think back is...the wheel, Mecca, Casino, etc, went through at least two (more in some cases, M’s, etc) play/ music/ attendee transitions as they grew. That being the case, I for one often find myself now loving something I hated back then - and vice versa.

or is that just rose tinted glasses?

 

55 minutes ago, Kegsy said:

Another one that's totally forgotten nowadays as a wheel sound.

 

Another one I had loved and sold ... now only have the “Toast “ label version  

Must spin this tonight as well 👍

1 hour ago, davebanks said:

this one always reminds me of the wheel, what an absolute monster it was. The sheer power in the backing track I irresistible, such a common record now but hard to find back in the day.

 

Dave Banks

Again, another personal favourite of mine. Rarely played nowadays, as so many people seem to turn their collective noses up at it. Wasn't Tommy Hunt lead singer? 

19 minutes ago, Kenb said:

 

or is that just rose tinted glasses?

 

For me, it was probably the fact that I was out of my skull when I heard many new tunes in the Wheel. The fact that amphetamine was fueling my dancing must've caused the tunes to have a deeper impression on me.

The above Fife Piper was an example of that, I guess. If I'd first heard it on a damp Wednesday morning, I might have thought differently 

I remember even now the first time I heard Al Wilson "Lodi" as a new release down the Wheel. F***in' brilliant. Never heard it anywhere else since then.......

On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 22:28, Joey said:

Have you read "The Manchester Wheelers: a northern quadrophenia"? Hard to find in print at a respectable price, but Amazon have it as a kindle download for £7.99 or thereabouts. Worth a read, as it gives a pretty decent insight into what life was like back then. 

Much of the background info in the section of the above book on Jnr Walker's night at the Wheel seems to have been a straight 'lift' from my chapter in 'THE IN CROWD' book about my first visit to the Wheel (only went then coz the Mojo was about to / did close). The 'author' even had the cheek to use a scan of my Wheel ticket from that night (also used, but with my permission, in THE IN CROWD).

Another instro I recall being played around 67 (but my memory is shot these days so ...) ...

.    ..  Bobby Moore & Rhy Aces -- Hey Mr DJ  (B side to SEARCHIN FOR MY BABY).

Anyone confirm if my recall is correct ??