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Twisted Wheel - Sounds ?

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With the wealth of knowledge and experience this site has to draw on , I wanted to ask a question regarding sounds that where played at the "Wheel" through the years.

I'm sure this may have been asked before at some point in some thread , but what are the top sounds that maybe haven't had much play or re-release over the years. Everyone's has different opinions on what constitutes a good track so don't feel you have to mention the most popular.

Are there any that have been forgotten slightly, or not been listed on any compilations through the years or maybe just not been seen to be that playable ?

Any help from the older generation on here would be appreciated . 

Maybe nowadays I should not be seen as being ageist , so if you never went but still have the knowledge, please feel free respond.   :) 

    

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I never went unfortunately but have bought a couple of cd's many years ago with supposedly some of the best tunes big at the wheel.

I love the stories of this young kid called Levine showing up with tunes he had discovered whilst on holiday in the states and begging the dj's to give them a spin.

Rose Batiste Hit and Run being one of them.

What must they have thought of him?

Priceless

Ed

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Had a bit of a "discussion" with a younger soulie many years ago, who was adamant that the oldies were all played out. "Au contraire" said I, actually, you haven't even heard them all yet.To illustrate my point I offered two instrumentals which were both played at the Wheel, and other clubs in the late 60s and early 70s. For your delectation and amusement, behold:-

No need to even make mention of Green Door, Scratchy, 6x6, Philly dog, and the multitude of others. 

Edited by Joey

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2 minutes ago, dylan said:

Did any of today’s big money records get played as far back as the wheel ?

Baby reconsider and Hit & Run still go for a few quid, plus lots of original UK releases of Wheel sounds are pretty rare.

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12 minutes ago, dylan said:

Did any of today’s big money records get played as far back as the wheel ?

Compared to today, or even compared to 72-73, very few "imports" were played. Sandy Sheldon and Leon Heywood et al were, along with one or two others, big in the latter days of the Wheel, but even now they don't command extraordinary prices. To illustrate the point, of the thirty "Soul Sounds" boots, only one had no UK release. 

So no, the multi-trillion pound sounds you see being auctioned now weren't even known of, never mind actually played. However, Rufus Lumley, Hoagy Lands, etc. etc. on Stateside now fetch a pretty penny. Wish I'd kept my old British collection, as I'd be able to retire to the Bahamas now!

Edited by Joey

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2 hours ago, tomangoes said:

I never went unfortunately but have bought a couple of cd's many years ago with supposedly some of the best tunes big at the wheel.

I love the stories of this young kid called Levine showing up with tunes he had discovered whilst on holiday in the states and begging the dj's to give them a spin.

Rose Batiste Hit and Run being one of them.

What must they have thought of him?

Priceless

Ed

Thanks Ed ,

I only ever went a handful of times , taken under the wing of "Mad Sam" from Liverpool who was the one responsible for me getting into soul. So for me its an era I know little about although I do have a lot of collected memorabilia from there. Heady days for sure :) 

I'm kind of interested in the sounds that might not be well know to most on the scene now , the forgotten gems or tunes that never got listed or re-released commercially in any compilations. Not worried about how much they go for , or what they are worth , just really good tunes that only or started to get played at the Wheel.

Thanks for the posts so far guys . :) 

Edited by stevegods

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4 hours ago, tomangoes said:

I never went unfortunately but have bought a couple of cd's many years ago with supposedly some of the best tunes big at the wheel.

I love the stories of this young kid called Levine showing up with tunes he had discovered whilst on holiday in the states and begging the dj's to give them a spin.

Rose Batiste Hit and Run being one of them.

What must they have thought of him?

Priceless

Ed

Probably the same as we do now, lol. 

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13 minutes ago, nickinstoke said:

Another Spencer Davis Group track that had its day in the sun was “This hammer” - long forgotten - and another Little Milton was “Who’s cheating who”

Yep, "This Hammer" was certainly played, and played a lot. Better be careful on this thread though, as with so many non-black artists being mentioned, the soul police and chin-strokers will soon be after blood. :-)

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5 minutes ago, Kenb said:

'WHAT CAN A MAN DO' ...probably most remembered for its A-side - The ShowStoppers

Monster tune. Used to play it do death myself. Same label, same club, Bobby Wells, "Lets coppa groove" ?

 

 

Edited by Joey

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Keeping strictly to the OPs original request re tunes that were big at the Wheel, but are no longer deemed suitable to be played, here are two more that should immediately come to mind:-

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Joey said:

 

Monster tune. Used to play it do death myself. Same label, same club, Bobby Wells, "Lets coppa groove" ?

 

 

Love this track ... have it on Beacon Demo  and Romur ... one of my earliest memories of the Wheel ... 

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51 minutes ago, Joey said:

Yep, "This Hammer" was certainly played, and played a lot. Better be careful on this thread though, as with so many non-black artists being mentioned, the soul police and chin-strokers will soon be after blood. :-)

You know what though ... the Wheel had so many white groups play live there that where influenced by black artists. 

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1 hour ago, geeselad said:

Probably the same as we do now, lol. 

Seriously if you were djing now, and a kid turns up with a record like Hit and Run and you've probably never heard of the label or artist let alone the tune, and you take a chance and play it, and the dancefloor goes crazy AND it's not the first time it's happened, what would you think of that kid?

Just trying to put perspective on the impact of tunes broke at the wheel, and how it happened.

Forget the kids name was Levine..

Ed

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25 minutes ago, stevegods said:

You know what though ... the Wheel had so many white groups play live there that where influenced by black artists. 

Absolutely correct. But then again, name me a white group/solo artist back then who WASN'T influenced by black Amercican artists? Still happening today, though on a lesser scale. I suppose it brings us to the question of "what is soul". A whole other thread beckons on that though!

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so the OP -but what are the top sounds that maybe haven't had much play or re-release over the years. 

Well for this... i'm not sure "top sounds" would be a definition for some...but me -hell yeah.

 

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25 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

Seriously if you were djing now, and a kid turns up with a record like Hit and Run and you've probably never heard of the label or artist let alone the tune, and you take a chance and play it, and the dancefloor goes crazy AND it's not the first time it's happened, what would you think of that kid?

Just trying to put perspective on the impact of tunes broke at the wheel, and how it happened.

Forget the kids name was Levine..

Ed

Agree wholeheartedly. But.......it still doesn't get away from the fact that he was a self obsessed, narcissistic a**hole who did a massive amount for the Northern scene in the early seventies, then almost destroyed it just a few years later. Or am I being cruel? Hmm, no, I'm not!

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But the topic is about the Twisted Wheel, not a general topic, and my comment was about Levine's influence at that club. I also indicated if the mention of Levine's name effects the impact of the impact, so to say, call the new kid on the block Smith or Jones etc.

I think the largest topic ever on this site was about Ian Levine, a couple of years ago, and I think every member and their granny commented.

Ed

 

 

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2 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

But the topic is about the Twisted Wheel, not a general topic, and my comment was about Levine's influence at that club. I also indicated if the mention of Levine's name effects the impact of the impact, so to say, call the new kid on the block Smith or Jones etc.

I think the largest topic ever on this site was about Ian Levine, a couple of years ago, and I think every member and their granny commented.

Ed

 

 

Firstly, many would say that he had very little impact as far as the Wheel is concerned. His major contribution(s) came immediately afterwards. 

Secondly, regardless of the topic, if you throw in "that" name, you're going to get a reaction. Mine was the third reaction on this thread, admittedly longer and more detailed than the others. I'm only surprised there aren't more.  Back to the subject matter:-

 

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12 minutes ago, Joey said:

Firstly, many would say that he had very little impact as far as the Wheel is concerned. His major contribution(s) came immediately afterwards. 

Secondly, regardless of the topic, if you throw in "that" name, you're going to get a reaction. Mine was the third reaction on this thread, admittedly longer and more detailed than the others. I'm only surprised there aren't more.  Back to the subject matter:-

 

Well Joey, as I stated I was never there, and only quoted a story I've read. If you were there from the late 60s up to the end, and witnessed his limited influence, then I accept your account.

Ed

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40 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

Well Joey, as I stated I was never there, and only quoted a story I've read. If you were there from the late 60s up to the end, and witnessed his limited influence, then I accept your account.

Ed

As before, his influence on what was played at the Wheel has to be viewed as minimal really. Those sounds, such as Hit and Run DID become big, but not until after Manchester City Council and Greater Manchester Police put a spanner in the works, so to speak. Had the Wheel stayed open for just another year or so, then I would be the first to admit that he would probably have been the biggest influence the place had ever seen. Some of the stuff he brought back from that first, well documented, buying trip to the 'States went on to become monsters at the Mecca and Torch, amongst other places, and are still viewed as all-time classics today. Again, in my humble opinion, the scene owes him both gratitude and opprobrium, in equal measure.

My apologies if my first comment regarding "him" has upset you, or anyone else. I haven't spoken to him since 1974, and even that nearly ended in fisticuffs. His name has an effect on me that I find difficult to control whenever I hear it! ;-)

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14 hours ago, ZoomSoulBlue said:

IMG_1634.thumb.PNG.a2c20bb6908f17f93331199f68e66819.PNG

IMG_1635.PNG

 

 

14 hours ago, ZoomSoulBlue said:

 

IMG_1635.PNG

IMG_1636.PNG

IMG_1637.PNG

Christ, some on there that I'd forgotten even existed!!!!!!

Edited by Joey

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No offence taken.

Just fascinated by lots of stories about the wheel.

The youngster showing up with unheard of gems is just one of them, and the willing jocks who gave them a spin is another. 

It was a progressive cutting edge venue at the start of a revolution in youth culture....

Patrons were truly blessed to have been part of it.

Ed

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18 minutes ago, tomangoes said:

No offence taken.

Just fascinated by lots of stories about the wheel.

The youngster showing up with unheard of gems is just one of them, and the willing jocks who gave them a spin is another. 

It was a progressive cutting edge venue at the start of a revolution in youth culture....

Patrons were truly blessed to have been part of it.

Ed

Have you read "The Manchester Wheelers: a northern quadrophenia"? Hard to find in print at a respectable price, but Amazon have it as a kindle download for £7.99 or thereabouts. Worth a read, as it gives a pretty decent insight into what life was like back then. 

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Thinking back to the original question, it’s easy to forget how popular the Drifters were. “Saturday night at the movies” was a massive sound, and “Sand in my shoes” was close behind. It’s almost unimaginable that either would get a spin today. Likewise Sam Cooke - “Chain gang” and “Another Saturday night” were very acceptable plays back in the late 60s

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36 minutes ago, nickinstoke said:

Thinking back to the original question, it’s easy to forget how popular the Drifters were. “Saturday night at the movies” was a massive sound, and “Sand in my shoes” was close behind. It’s almost unimaginable that either would get a spin today. Likewise Sam Cooke - “Chain gang” and “Another Saturday night” were very acceptable plays back in the late 60s

Absolutely bang on. Sam Cooke with Cupid, him and Otis with Shake, the Drifters with any number of tunes. All played back in the late 60s and early 70s. Eddie Floyd with Bring it on home to me was another, plus Sam and Dave with Soul Sister Brown Sugar, and I thank you. Far too easy to discount the more common Stax/Atlantic sounds nowadays. I've spoken about this with people who came onto the scene as far back as the emid seventies, and they actually said these tunes were  "irrelevant". You couldn't make it up! Then again, these days, unless a record is as rare as rocking horse shit, with only a handful of copies in the hands of celebrity "progressive" DJs, and commands a four figure price tag, it  doesn't appear to be worth dancing to. For some people anyway.

Edited by Joey

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12 minutes ago, autumnstoned said:

There are some scans in the photos section of this site, of records played at The Wheel ( can't add link for some reason ) including this oldie:-

 

Sweet Jesus. Another one I'd forgotten even existed. The last time I heard "the right kind" must have been in about 71, in my local youth club. What a quality dancer. Just storming. And some people still pooh-pooh "the oldies"  saying they're totally played out. Then they rave about some tripe with a £3000 price tag that we'd probably have turned into an ashtray back in the day. The A side? I remember almost fifty years ago having a very heated debate with someone about its relative merits vis a vis the SDG version. Still prefer the latter! Can't thank you enough for posting this!👍

Edited by Joey

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what a fantastic thread this is, some records here I've never even heard of, so what happened? did tastes change or did the massive turnover of releases in 70's just leave these old sounds to be forgotten?

Edited by shufflin
typo

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33 minutes ago, shufflin said:

what a fantastic thread this is, some records here I've never even heard of, so what happened? did tastes change or did the massive turnover of releases in 70's just leave these old sounds to be forgotten?

A bit of both really. Even as early as 73, with the massive number of newer sounds being heard almost weekly, many of the earlier classics were being consigned to history. I DJd a bit back then, and tried to fill most of my spots with what are now known as Wheel sounds, feeling even then that they weren't getting enough airplay. Some of the mainstays of my spots were tunes which went on to be known, for some reason, as Wigan classics. Happy, Looking for you, I can't get a hold of myself, Catch me I'm falling and others. Look at 74, and the Casino opening Ms as a dedicated oldies room. More and more new discoveries meant fewer and fewer of these sounds being heard outside anyone's bedroom. This led to entire generations of people never even knowing they existed.  I've alluded to this earlier in the thread, and also other threads. My biggest bugbear has always been people on the scene saying that oldies are all played out, and no longer relevant. They were saying the same in 74. Wrong then, wrong now. Glad you're enjoying the thread!

oh, and the ones you've never even heard before? Funny thing is, you can probably pick the majority of them up for pennies, not five grand a pop!

Edited by Joey

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I think it was a mix of things ... 

Like Joel said , it kind of became a hunt for rarer and rarer tunes and just like in any form of music tastes can change and alter from club to club , where different DJs tried to establish their own format and break their own classics .. some went too far for sure . 

Whats been refreshing to hear and see , is that these sounds still stand the test of time . 

Keep ‘em coming please !! 🙏 

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30 minutes ago, stevegods said:

I think it was a mix of things ... 

Like Joel said , it kind of became a hunt for rarer and rarer tunes and just like in any form of music tastes can change and alter from club to club , where different DJs tried to establish their own format and break their own classics .. some went too far for sure . 

Whats been refreshing to hear and see , is that these sounds still stand the test of time . 

Keep ‘em coming please !! 🙏 

Agree with all that you say. Ever since 74, there have been influential DJs who have pushed sounds just on the basis of their rarity, and assumed value. Rarity and value doth not a great record make! The majority of today's big sounds would never have been played at the Wheel, Torch, Junction etc. Why? Simply not good enough to dance to. I have always been of the opinion that a DJs job, first and foremost, is to fill a dance floor, keep it bouncing, and give the paying crowd what they want, not what he decides they SHOULD be dancing and listening to.  Dislodging said dance floor's roof is preferable, but not an absolute necessity. Probably why Martin Ellis, despite never having his own box of records, was probably the best DJ this scene has ever had.

Heres another one never heard anymore:-

And another one:-

 

Edited by Joey

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went to listen to Bill Honey (Shaw & Royton Wheelers) records in about '75, he did a few spots at the Wheel and said Koko Taylor's "Wang dang doodle" was his signature track. He told tales of a Castella Tube full of blueys for ten bob and I came away with two LP's, James Carr's "Dark end of the street" (for "that's all I want to know") and a Soul Sisters' album for this track which he said was big there...............

 

Edited by back street blue

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13 minutes ago, Joey said:

Agree with all that you say. Ever since 74, there have been influential DJs who have pushed sounds just on the basis of their rarity, and assumed value. Rarity and value doth not a great record make! The majority of today's big sounds would never have been played at the Wheel, Torch, Junction etc. Why? Simply not good enough to dance to. I have always been of the opinion that a DJs job, first and foremost, is to fill a dance floor, keep it bouncing, and give the paying crowd what they want, not what he decides they SHOULD be dancing and listening to.  Dislodging said dance floor's roof is preferable, but not an absolute necessity. Probably why Martin Ellis, despite never having his own box of records, was probably the best DJ this scene has ever had.

Heres another one never heard anymore:-

 

that's a great tune, a near minter for under £20?

I went to an event last year where one DJ was dropping  "F Bombs" from his mike onto the audience for not dancing to this bloody awful 1950's sounding R&B obscurity he'd obviously blown money on

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1 minute ago, back street blue said:

went to listen to Bill Honey (Shaw & Royton Wheelers) records in about '75, he did a few spots at the Wheel and said Koko Taylor's "Wand dand doodle was his signature track. He told tales of a Castella Tube full of blueys for ten bob and I came away with two LP's, James Car "Dark end of the street" (for that's what I want to know) and a Soul Sisters album for this track which he said was big there...............

 

Lol. The blueys probably came from the Kerfoots factory in Bardsley, between Oldham and Ashton. Always handy to have a mate or two who worked there!

Soul Sisters was a very big tune. So big it was one of the thirty booted on "Soul Sounds". That album is pretty rare BTW. 👍

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2 minutes ago, Joey said:

Lol. The blueys probably came from the Kerfoots factory in Bardsley, between Oldham and Ashton. Always handy to have a mate or two who worked there!

Soul Sisters was a very big tune. So big it was one of the thirty booted on "Soul Sounds". That album is pretty rare BTW. 👍

.........knew a bird who worked at Boots in Ashton, "Dexie", after getting the sack from Kerfoots for helping herself to the smarties !!!

 

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4 minutes ago, shufflin said:

that's a great tune, a near minter for under £20?

I went to an event last year where one DJ was dropping  "F Bombs" from his mike onto the audience for not dancing to this bloody awful 1950's sounding R&B obscurity he'd obviously blown money on

I remember when people would turn their nose up at it, just because of the label. But, if you only collected British, it was the only way to own it on a 45. Probably still be able to pick up a nice copy for less than a tenner.

that DJ? Another plum, in a long line of plums. Always been far too many egos behind the decks, then, now, and probably will still in the future. 

Anyone want to post up a link to Peggy Scott and JoJo Benson? I can't be arsed!!!!!!

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