Catacombs, 1971.

[Pat]

Ray Webster is mentioned in an earlier photo when it was stated that Ray died in1978, infact Ray passed away in April 1977 & his memorial stone is on the large granite cross in Bushbury Cemetery just a few feet from my oen mom& dads.  Alan C

[Torch56]

My apologies.

[Torch56]

Since posting the picture of the Catacombs sign in an earlier post, I have learnt that Phil Morgan, who was the lad in the denim jacket in the foreground of the photograph, has sadly passed away.

My thanks to Steve Proudlove and Eddie Matusiak for providing that information via The Catacombs Club Facebook Page.

[Herbie0908]

[Jhsoulnotts]

On 13/12/2021 at 10:41, Torch56 said:

 I made my way down the stairs and onto the street outside, thus missing the Walter Jackson moment which came about an hour later, I understand. . 

Walter Jackson moment?

[Tagtag]

14 minutes ago, Jhsoulnotts said:

Walter Jackson moment?

I think Walter's "Where Have All The Flowers Gone" was traditionally the last record of each night.

[Jhsoulnotts]

2 hours ago, Tagtag said:

I think Walter's "Where Have All The Flowers Gone" was traditionally the last record of each night.

Ah! thanks for that - that's such a great sound!

[Chris Turnbull]

4 hours ago, Jhsoulnotts said:

Ah! thanks for that - that's such a great sound!

Interesting record Walter 'Flowers', context is everything I guess - remember Derek Howe in Manchester telling me years ago it was a Wheel sound as well but I didn't get it and still don't really 

Great thread by the way - anyone know if the old sign is still around?

[Mike]

1 hour ago, Chris Turnbull said:

Interesting record Walter 'Flowers', context is everything I guess - remember Derek Howe in Manchester telling me years ago it was a Wheel sound as well but I didn't get it and still don't really 

Great thread by the way - anyone know if the old sign is still around?

flowers was revived in 77/78 yep, didn't get it myself back then but reading it had a previous life as an ender does for me sort of explain things

[Leicester Boy]

Love it , super record.  Marmite i suppose.

[Torch56]

I must agree with you, Chris, with regard to Walter Jackson. I can't be certain about when it was played at the Catacombs because it was just before my time. However, I did hear talk of it being played around September/October 1971, and around that time I did hear it when it was played by somebody in Alan S' record shop on a Saturday afternoon. Along with others, I'm sure, the idea of a Bob Dylan song being played at the Catacombs appeared most surprising, but in the same era Purple Haze also graced the decks, which also prompted raised eyebrows. Indeed Johnny Jones was one of the big sounds when I first attended the Cats in November of that year.

To add to the ironic incongruity of Blowing in the Wind being played at this hallowed venue, the record itself was on OKeh. Not just on some nondescript piece of vinyl, but on one of the most iconic labels in the entire northern soul catalogue. I'm sure I don't have to list the sounds that elevate this label to its revered status, but no other record company, other than maybe Ric-tic, comes close in terms of delivering a number of items of quality, up-tempo northern soul. Blowing in the Wind was markedly out of character with what I associated with the OKeh motif.

As I explained in an earlier post, like Elvis, I had left the building when Max took the decision to end proceedings at the Cats by playing the Walter Jackson version, and, though it's not personally my cup of tea, in retrospect, it was an entirely appropriate choice. It was an item that had associations with an earlier era at the club, the lyrics reflected a sense of loss that matched the mood of the occasion, and the melody and tempo both indicated the end of the night and something even more final.

The choice of that record to end proceedings on the final night was the subject of many conversations in the weeks that followed, and it's interesting that it has become a component of virtually all recollections the Cats' last night down the years. Here we are now, talking about it decades later. Take a bow, Max. You showed a perception of the importance of the moment, all those years ago.

[Solidsoul]

Great to read these memories of the Catacombs.  "Where Have All The Flowers Gone"  by Walter Jackson  became popular at Wigan for a while, but I bought it for the Okeh flip side. 

"I'll keep On Trying" is a superb piece of solid Northern Soul. Well worth checking out if you don't know it. An original should not cost too much and you get Two For The Price Of One!.

Edited December 17, 2021 by D9 Ktf

[Jhsoulnotts]

15 hours ago, Torch56 said:

I must agree with you, Chris, with regard to Walter Jackson. I can't be certain about when it was played at the Catacombs because it was just before my time. However, I did hear talk of it being played around September/October 1971, and around that time I did hear it when it was played by somebody in Alan S' record shop on a Saturday afternoon. Along with others, I'm sure, the idea of a Bob Dylan song being played at the Catacombs appeared most surprising, but in the same era Purple Haze also graced the decks, which also prompted raised eyebrows. Indeed Johnny Jones was one of the big sounds when I first attended the Cats in November of that year.

To add to the ironic incongruity of Blowing in the Wind being played at this hallowed venue, the record itself was on OKeh. Not just on some nondescript piece of vinyl, but on one of the most iconic labels in the entire northern soul catalogue. I'm sure I don't have to list the sounds that elevate this label to its revered status, but no other record company, other than maybe Ric-tic, comes close in terms of delivering a number of items of quality, up-tempo northern soul. Blowing in the Wind was markedly out of character with what I associated with the OKeh motif.

As I explained in an earlier post, like Elvis, I had left the building when Max took the decision to end proceedings at the Cats by playing the Walter Jackson version, and, though it's not personally my cup of tea, in retrospect, it was an entirely appropriate choice. It was an item that had associations with an earlier era at the club, the lyrics reflected a sense of loss that matched the mood of the occasion, and the melody and tempo both indicated the end of the night and something even more final.

The choice of that record to end proceedings on the final night was the subject of many conversations in the weeks that followed, and it's interesting that it has become a component of virtually all recollections the Cats' last night down the years. Here we are now, talking about it decades later. Take a bow, Max. You showed a perception of the importance of the moment, all those years ago.

Love this thread So it was only chosen as a special ender for that last night? 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Jhsoulnotts

[Torch56]

I have no recollection of the record being played before that last morning, neither as an 'ender' nor as an item in a main spot. It did get plays, from what I heard, earlier in 1971, but I was not there to hear it. From conversations I had with attendees, who saw that night out to the bitter end, the choice of Walter Jackson as the final record was a major talking point. Opinions were not particularly negative, nor particularly positive. It was more that it was an unusual choice and it certainly resonated with them, and has gone on to be an integral part of the folklore surrounding the event.

I can't recall there being specific records at the Catacombs that marked the end of the session, apart from a small period in 1973 when Max would play Jimmy Radcliffe to end the session. I remember this clearly since he was playing that year's Pye reissue, rather than a Stateside original. I was surprised by this given the plethora of top sounds he had in his box at that time.

The clearest memory I have of an 'ender' record is that played by Richard Searling at Va Vas in August of that year when Fats Domino's 'It Keeps On Raining' brought proceedings to an end at 7 am. After 6 hours of Ben Aiken, Alice Clark, Duke Browner, et al, it seemed like particularly thin gruel.

The Catacombs opened in November 1968. Between that date and July 1974, thousands and thousands of records were played at that venue. To select that record as the final play was some accolade to the song's message and to the era that was about to end.

[Torch56]

 

Advert taken from the Express and Star, Monday, November 11, 1968.

[Torch56]

Carl Dene who, as Farmer  Carl , was one of the first Catacombs DJs has just referenced this advertisement in The Catacombs Club Soul Club Facebook page.

[Torch56]

[Torch56]

Mike Raven, number 16 in the above photograph, was earmarked to be the first named DJ at the Catacombs on Saturday, November 16th, 1968.

The opening of the club was delayed by a week and consequently Mike made his initial appearance at the club on Saturday, November 23rd.

The securing of Mike's services was something of a coup for Steve Dobson, the club's owner, as he was a high profile Radio One DJ, as can be seen in the image above. He was given a slot at 6pm. on Sundays to present his R and B show and this ran through to 1971, when I first heard it. That year saw a number of reissues and I recall him reviewing, Someday We're Gonna Love Again and Festival Time, amongst others.

The uncanny resemblance to Vincent Price was not entirely coincidental. He had a fascination with the occult and appeared in a number of horror films in the early 70s. Sadly, Mike passed away in 1997 and was buried on Bodmin Moor, in a grave he had dug himself.

The subsequent obituaries in a number of esteemed publications did not mention his Catacombs' connection, but it was further evidence that this particular Radio One DJ was no Smashy or Nicey.

[Torch56]

Express and Star, Thursday, November 14th, 1968.

[Torch56]

Things not going to plan.

CATACOMBES? With an E?

"Circumstances beyond our control"?

Mr Dobson would not have been pleased.

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Torch56

[Torch56]

 

[Torch56]

This was Mike Raven's theme tune and introduced his R and B show on Radio One on Sunday evenings between 1967 and 1971. After the postponement of the club's advertised opening, Mike eventually made his Catacombs' debut on Saturday, November 23rd, 1968.

[Torch56]

[Torch56]

After the postponement of the opening night a week earlier, here's the Express and Star advert for the actual event. The House of Lords has been replaced by Ossie Layne, who has been written about in another thread. The Saturday session was to feature Mike Raven as was originally intended.

[Torch56]

Express and Star, Saturday, November 23rd, 1968.

[Torch56]

[Torch56]

Express and Star, Friday, November 28th, 1968.

Root 'n' Jennie Jackson made numerous appearances at The Twisted Wheel throughout its Whitworth Street existence. Jenny was more often spelt with a Y but this was not the first time that misspelling featured in Catacombs' adverts, nor was it to be the last.

Another interesting feature of these early adverts is the emphasis on live acts rather than records. Later on this situation was to be reversed. In my time the only live acts to perform did so in the autumn of 1972. From memory I think I recall Major Lance, Fontella Bass, and Bob and Earl. If I'm honest, none of them made any impression on me and I just wanted the records back on. I do recall that as Major Lance was performing, Max had 'You Don't Want Me no More' cued up and ready to go. I was not one of the crowd calling for the Major to prolong his live appearance. Heresy, I know.

[Torch56]

Here's a Twisted Wheel flyer from June, 1969.

[Torch56]

[Torch56]

Express and Star, November 29th, 1968.

He of Green Door fame.

Blue Max is a name synonymous with the Catacombs but before he joined that roster he DJ'd at the Connaught in 1971. The playlist was not exclusively northern but I do recall hearing, Festival Time, Billy Harner, Run Baby Run, Los Canarios, and Doris Troy, amongst others.

In 1973 a coach left the Connaught on Friday nights bound for Whitchurch for an evening session that was well attended with punters from Stoke and the north-west, as well as Wolverhampton. 'Countdown' and 'Working at the Go Go' were both examples from a playlist that has rarely been bettered.

The venue played host to northern soul again in the late 80s when one of the hotel's smaller rooms was utilised. Doug Banks was a popular sound then, as I recall.

[Torch56]

[Torch56]

Catacombs attendees circa 1971/2

Top right, Dave Preece. Came from Cannock. I have a distinct memory of him hitting the dance floor with some gusto when Sally Sayin' Somethin' came on. He had a good ear for a sound; in the summer of 1973 he extolled the merits of Satisfy Me Baby when I happened to bump into him in the Mander Centre.

Next to Dave, Pete Tilsley from Stockport. Black Ben Sherman with Twisted Wheel badge on the breast pocket, Skinners jeans; a serious devotee of the scene.

[Torch56]

[Torch56]

First official mention I can find of Farmer Carl as DJ, spelt here with a K. Carl would go on to be the regular DJ at the Catacombs, along with Alan S, having been recruited from the Chateau Impney in December 1968. Carl left the roster later in 1969.

Clem Curtis was lead singer with the Foundations when they recorded, 'Baby, now that I found you.' and 'Back on my feet again.'

Herbie Goins recorded, 'No 1 in your heart.' which I had assumed would have been played in the Catacombs' early days. However, Carl Dene tells me that was not the case. Copies going for around 200 pounds currently on Popsike. Herbie's group also made appearances at the Twisted Wheel around this time.

 

 

[Torch56]

Carl, pictured here with Jeff Astle, at Dudley Liberal Club, date unknown.

[Pat]

I see in the Newspaper ad. The groups is listed as The Nightliners, it was actually Herbie Goins & The Night Timers  Alan C 

[Torch56]

I hadn't noticed that. Interestingly enough, whoever was the copywriter responsible for the Catacombs' publicity must have done so, because in two subsequent adverts in the paper the group's correct title was used.

They still referred to Farmer Karl with a K, though.

[Torch56]

[Torch56]

Express and Star, Friday, December 13th, 1968.

Clem Curtis and a seven piece band would have taken up a considerable amount of room. The stage at the Catacombs pre-1972 refurbishment was much smaller in area than its successor. Good job social distancing wasn't a consideration then.

I suspect the two DJ's referred to here would have been Alan S and Farmer Carl.

[Paul holmes]

I've got details of the general floor plan and some photo's//images available but can anyone supply me further details about the layout of entrance into the club ? Was it parallel to the street ? A rough sketch would be good  . Also was it close to one of the other roads ? I didn't go as you can guess !! But would like to draw up some rough plans if poss

[Sunnysoul]

Yes, let's have more stories, info and especially PHOTOS of Catacombs era 1969-1972 

[Julianb]

I took Simon Soussan along with Chris Tipping who financed his trip (His dad owned an engineering company in Leeds called Tipco Tools on Gelderd Road) and a so called 'minder' who couldn't fight his way out of a 'wet paper bag!' to the Cats just after he returned from the States with his brown leather suitcase full of his 'finds' ( I was at Chris' apartment when Simon arrived there and opened the suitcase for the first time!) Bloody wonderful experience

Obviously I  knew lots of punters there but the atmosphere got a bit tense and we ended up 'legging it' out of there. I did remonstrate with Graham Warr, Pep etc when next I saw them.

Anyway, we beat a retreat up the M6 to the Torch and as they say, the rest his history.

[Ian Parker]

On 17/12/2021 at 16:20, Torch56 said:

I must agree with you, Chris, with regard to Walter Jackson. I can't be certain about when it was played at the Catacombs because it was just before my time. However, I did hear talk of it being played around September/October 1971, and around that time I did hear it when it was played by somebody in Alan S' record shop on a Saturday afternoon. Along with others, I'm sure, the idea of a Bob Dylan song being played at the Catacombs appeared most surprising, but in the same era Purple Haze also graced the decks, which also prompted raised eyebrows. Indeed Johnny Jones was one of the big sounds when I first attended the Cats in November of that year.

 

Pete Seger ,  not Dylan

[Torch56]

I stand corrected. I'm now intrigued as to why I assumed it was a Bob Dylan song. There are references to Dylan and Joan Baez singing the song on the internet. The You Tube version attributed to Dylan is an instrumental version so did she sing the lyrics while he did the backing track?

"Instrumental version" I hear you say. Don't get excited. It's no Exus Trek.

[Vadnochka]

I think you're talking abot Bob Seger & the last heard - Heavy Music  which was a big sound around that time  - maybe a bit earlier, although not what we would know as northern nowadays as it pre-dates that term anyway. I remember having a copy in my early dj'ing days - probably played it a couple of times before it was swamped by the then never ending flow of great sounds coming through.

[Agentsmith]

On 24/11/2021 at 09:32, Sheep said:

Ah well it was 47 years ago....but yes that's how I remember it....certainly packed through the evening, but later it thinned out....but I could be wrong...thought the first night at the casino was packed, but someone else said it was empty, so would like confirmation on that also, happy to be wrong...

We were travelling from afar, so in a car not a coach ..

I wasnt able to attend the final night ( Saturday 13th July ), i did however, go to the club the night before for a special party with all the food laid on, even got to spin a couple of tunes in the booth whilst Max was otherwise pre-occupied.

As far as im aware and have always been told, that last night the venue was bursting at the seams, fire exits doors open because it was like a furnace in there.

I attended for the last 6 months but wouldve been totally oblivious to cassette players so, quite honestly, this is extraordinary!....but in hindsight, i wouldnt put it past Richard Domar sounds like Max djing.

I have always been told about the aftermath of the niter, according to the legend, Swoz and other stacked dustbins on top of each other and somehow, dismantled the illuminated signage from the venues exterior on Temple Street....i know for a fact it resided for a long time after, in the back of Max's record shop in Wednesfield, after which i think Swoz came into possession of it?.

The Catacombs was my first real introduction to what you call a nationally

On 24/11/2021 at 09:32, Sheep said:

Ah well it was 47 years ago....but yes that's how I remember it....certainly packed through the evening, but later it thinned out....but I could be wrong...thought the first night at the casino was packed, but someone else said it was empty, so would like confirmation on that also, happy to be wrong...

We were travelling from afar, so in a car not a coach ..

 

On 24/11/2021 at 09:32, Sheep said:

Ah well it was 47 years ago....but yes that's how I remember it....certainly packed through the evening, but later it thinned out....but I could be wrong...thought the first night at the casino was packed, but someone else said it was empty, so would like confirmation on that also, happy to be wrong...

We were travelling from afar, so in a car not a coach ..

recognized venue the venue signage found its way to Max's record shop and remained there for a long time.

Never went on that last saturday but atteneded the night before for a special farewell party.

Saturday 13th July: always told it was rammed, never any suggestion people went elsewhere...The Casino, for a long time, was held responsible by many for the Cats demise...but then the era of the all niter was a far more exciting concept and Wigan was a different proposition altogether.

 

If Domar went, i wouldnt have a clue ( the Cats, that is ) but im gobsmacked to hear a tape. Sounds like Max djing, in which case its more than likely a wednesday night. I attended the last 6 months, but my cousin and her gang had been going 12 months previously....they pursuaded me to go with them. The Cats was my first introduction to a legendary venue, playing this new, exciting music.

Favourute tune there?: without any doubt, Saxie Russell - Psychedelic Soul, monster floor packer, brought back in that infamous haul from Florida by Graham Warr.

 

[Agentsmith]

On 30/11/2021 at 14:03, Torch56 said:

As I recall 'secret sounds' were not always given alternative titles but simply left blank. For example, I remember Froggy playing a British Columbia black issue with the title of the song and the artist obscured with a series of white stickers strategically placed. When the record started it turned out to be, Levi Jackson, This Beautiful Day, which was still available at that time from main stream record retailers. 

In early 1972, Dave Godin, in one of his articles in Blues and Soul, defended the practice but took the opportunity to 'out' two of his own examples as being Prove Yourself A Lady and Nothing's Worse Than Being Alone. He did not refer to any alternative titles/ artists' names that he had used in their place, which leads me to believe they did not exist.

One example (though there may well be more) that defied this trend from the Catacombs era was Double Cookin' by the Checkerboard Squares. In 1974 this was given the much more appropriate, but entirely fictional, title of Strings A Go Go by Bob Wilson.

By the late 70s 'secret sounds' had transmogrified into cover-ups which were far more prevalent, but, of cours,e by then the Cats was long gone.

If Harvey Averne was a Catacombs secret sound, it's possible, if not probable, it was given no alternative title. The person most  likely to give the most definitive answer to this query is Pep. He was in and around that DJ booth for years, and not just when he officially joined the roster. 

The new discoveries and ' secret Sounds ' were generally played on a saturday night, as opposed to the very popular wednesdays.

I only once took in a saturday session, featuring Max, Pep, Bazil from stourbridge, possibly Neil as well and i can honestly say, from what i remember, i didnt recognize a tune being played, that probably accounted for the fact it wasnt very well attended.

I also dont think Max bothered covering things up, particularly from what was played midweek, he certainly had Simon's early acetates of his synthisized garbage, but no one honestly paid attention...they were too busy dancing, blocked up...or both!...well...maybe one tune i can remember which was Paul Anka, im sure it was covered up as Dean Courtney whose ' ill always need you ' was being played at the same time.

[Torch56]

Interesting story about Swoz and the dustbins. I'd not heard that before. The last time I saw that sign it was very firmly attached to the supporting wall and was resisting all attempts to be claimed as a souvenir  That was circa 6a.m. on the 14th, when I vacated the premises for the final time. What happened when the nighter concluded, I do not know, but the sign apparently ended up in Max's shop in Wednesfield. Thereafter...?

[Torch56]

Express and Star, Saturday, 25/11/1972.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Torch56

[Torch56]

Express and Star, September 22, 1972.