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Articles: The Four Perfections - The Story by Dave Moore

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The story of The Four Perfections - “I’ll Hold On b/w I’m Not Strong Enough” — Party Time 1001 is a tale littered with Philly musical gliterazziin the basement of the girl’s dormitory of Cheyney State College where Eddie Holman would teach Mervin Steals...

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Lovely article. I just love the trivia like this....Oh, and great song that The Trammps are doing. Bought it just recently....

Top write up The four perfections with out a doubt one of the finest records ever, Only ever had two records on Partytime the Showstoppers payd £3 pounds for them both 78ish wish I still had this one.

Congrats Dave. It was great seeing Merv at Soultripusa 2006 when he first announced he was a 'perfection'.........the look on the audiences faces, particularly Tim Brown

  • Author

Hi Kev,

Unbelievably, as I told you a while back, I lost track of him after that! I reconnected with them via Melvin's daughter who played a blinder. Melvin's wife Adrena is coming over with them too.

Going to be a special night for sure.

Stay healthy Pal! ;-)

Regards,

Dave

Great article Dave, love reading stuff like this

"I'm Not Strong Enough" - Four Perfections,  monster sound at Wigan Casino for Richard Searling, when it was a 60's newie!

Great record. Great write up. It's tales like this that help understand how difficult it was to cut a record, let alone have a hit.  Fortunately for us, the Four Perfections sole release on Party Time reached legendary status a long time ago and continues to be one of the best ever.

 Sterling work Dave, your dedication is something to be proud of - looking forward to the live show !

Excellent informative brilliant article ,great to read thanks for the work put into writing it.It ws one of those first time you hear it you're hooked forever records and you want to find out all you can about it straight away,well you couldnt find out any more about it these days than what you can read about it here.

  • Author

Hey Guys.... Little bit more info for you.  (From correspondence with Rick Cooper who met Mr Weinroth Snr in 1974 when he went over for the master tapes for the UK Cream issue of "I'm Not Strong Enough").   Rick was told that apparently Kip Gainsboro, who is credited with the production role of the song was a made up name comprising, ..... The family Dog (Kip) and the Weinroth's address (which was 1203 Gainsboro Rd, Bala Cynwyd,  Pa 19004).  

 

So there you have it. All those years of trawling for Kip Gainsboro was a waste of time but now thankfully -  put to rest! Fantastic! Thanks Rick!

 

Of course we now have to find out exactly who it was that produced the session? Bruce Weinroth? "Boobie" Thomas? Cameo Parkway staffer?

 

I'm onto it.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

Great article Dave; wonderful reading.

 

Maybe the producer was Bruce Charles which was Bruce Weinroth's producing name. He was actually Irv Weinroth's son not brother. Irv was the judge father you refer to. That is according to the B&S articles of the time.

  • Author

You're right Ady, they were Father and son. I rushed the writing and that slipped through.  I suspect it was Bruce Weinroth but if so he surpassed himself as it's a really good production.  Maybe with Joe Tarsia on hand.....  I'll report back with any more info once I speak to the guys again.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

When they are over can someone find out a bit about The Smallwood Brothers (Wand and Atco) who the Steals wrote songs for please…..ta. 

  • Author

Steve,

 

I have the complete catalogue of The Steals work.  Haven't we been down this Smallwood Brothers route once? Weren't they a George Kerr group? He'd maybe have some answers for you as to who the line up consisted of etc. The Steals wrote 3 songs for The Smallwood Brothers (all on Atco if I remember correctly but nothing that was released on Wand).  Send me some specifics you want and I'll see if they can help with anything further.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

Great article about one of all time favourite records. Many thanks!

 

I'm probably mixing it up. But I seem to recall that the Philips Intentions were an earlier incarnation of the Magnificent Men. Andy Rix has/had an acetate of a later Mag Men record that is credited to the Intentions, "It's got to be love". Scan here.

 

I think it was Dave Bupp who confirmed that they were basically the same outfit??

 

Sorry if I cause any confusion. It was 10/15 years ago when I read that.

I seem to remember the Weinroth family having some kind of paper manufacturing business?

Still have the correspondence from Irving Weinroth when dealt with for the Inferno singles.

Irving could not find the tape for the instrumental of "I'm Not Strong Enough" and instead sent a tape of a horrible  track "The Funky Donkey".

Ed Balbier who owned Global; and the Cream label had a go at us and said we had no rights to release The Four Perfections and The Showstoppers.

Mr Weinroth sent him the most incredible blistering cease and desist  telegram telling him we did have the rights and the Cream deal had expired.

We released The Showstoppers "Gotta Get Closer To My Love" for the first time which everyone tells me must be hard to obtain now,, but as it was on flip to "Ain't Nothing But A Houseparty" which sold 7,000,  not exactly hard to find I would have thought!

Great stuff Dave, the late Glenn Hunter would of loved all the info.

 

Cheers Jim.

Neil,

 

Did you ever met Irving or Bruce in person?  Any photos Mate?

 

Regards,

 

Dave

Hi Dave, No, have never been to Philadelpia in my life. Did it all by the phone. Still got the correspondence from Irving. We asked for photos on every licence we did (got great one of Fantastic Puzzles) but nothing from Irving. Weird thing is until I read this I never thought about Joe Tarsia being the engineer,   but I  did meet him in his pomp and had long conversation with him. That was on same trip to New York  I met up with Hal Davis who took me out for meal because of interview I did on 21st Century (Tailgate) for Black Echoes, he talked about his 60's recordings/prouductiions  with Marc Gordon in LA but as the Frank Wilson copy had not turned up, I did not know he Hal  produced "Do I Love You" - the Eddie Foster copies did not say so!!.  He MIGHT have said one. Funnyily enough on same trip I met Tom DePerrio, and as we all knew he supplied "Do I Love You" on Soul to Soussan.

Hey Guys.... Little bit more info for you.  (From correspondence with Rick Cooper who met Mr Weinroth Snr in 1974 when he went over for the master tapes for the UK Cream issue of "I'm Not Strong Enough").   Rick was told that apparently Kip Gainsboro, who is credited with the production role of the song was a made up name comprising, ..... The family Dog (Kip) and the Weinroth's address (which was 1203 Gainsboro Rd, Bala Cynwyd,  Pa 19004).  

 

So there you have it. All those years of trawling for Kip Gainsboro was a waste of time but now thankfully -  put to rest! Fantastic! Thanks Rick!

 

Of course we now have to find out exactly who it was that produced the session? Bruce Weinroth? "Boobie" Thomas? Cameo Parkway staffer?

 

I'm onto it.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

 

Dave, if you could have read Dave McCadden's original Soul Time mag, back in late 76 early 77, he actually mentions that story that Kyp Gainsboro is a dog!

  • Author

Dave, if you'd have read Dave McCadden's original Soul Time mag, back in late 76 early 77, he actually mentions that story that Kyp Gainsboro is a dog!

 

Pete you got a copy. If so could you scan it for me Mate.  I'd love to credit Dave with the story. Mad as a March hare but a heart of gold!  :thumbsup:

 

Regards,

 

Dave

Pete you got a copy. If so could you scan it for me Mate.  I'd love to credit Dave with the story. Mad as a March hare but a heart of gold!  :thumbsup:

 

Regards,

 

Dave

 

No not anymore Dave sorry - I can remember it clear as day though.

  • 4 years later...
On 10/09/2014 at 22:38, Dave Moore said:

 

Ok Mate, I'll try and track down a copy. Thanks for the heads up.  :thumbsup:

 

Regards,

 

Dave

As a knew member to Soul Source, I found this article superb and clearly you are so dedicated on your quests, as I am trying to be.

You mentioned above that the Intentions Philips release "was the only foray into the business they achieved"

I always wondered if they did in fact have anymore singles and came across this forum, when trying to find out about this release, on the same label as The Ethics. I was wondering if you could shed some light on this please and perhaps the label as I can't seem to fathom it :)

 

Intent.jpg

4 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

As a knew member to Soul Source, I found this article superb and clearly you are so dedicated on your quests, as I am trying to be.

You mentioned above that the Intentions Philips release "was the only foray into the business they achieved"

I always wondered if they did in fact have anymore singles and came across this forum, when trying to find out about this release, on the same label as The Ethics. I was wondering if you could shed some light on this please and perhaps the label as I can't seem to fathom it :)

 

Intent.jpg

Different group I think and have a connection to the Barclay label (Traditions etc).

26 minutes ago, Dave Moore said:

Yep, different group, the Uptight group were from Reading PA I think. 

Dave  

Thanks , I was listening to The Ethics as well and they are more like a Garage Band ( all these groups with the same names !!!!)

  • Author

Garage Band? NO!  LOL!  the Ethics on Vent were led by Ron Tyson a fantastic lead tenor and a pretty good songwriter too.  Although not a really prolific group they worked with Bobby Martin, (Wale),  Vince Montana (Vent) and Thom Bell (Vent) as well as Baker, Harris and Young, (Golden Fleece). Gamble and Huff also produced at least 1  x  45 on them. 

Have you got this book?  (Bit of a plug here, LOL!)

Dave 😉 

 

 

 

 

Thanks  a great insight in  another episode in the amazing world of soul music that we love so much. Good luck with the gig & book.

2 hours ago, Dave Moore said:

Garage Band? NO!  LOL!  the Ethics on Vent were led by Ron Tyson a fantastic lead tenor and a pretty good songwriter too.  Although not a really prolific group they worked with Bobby Martin, (Wale),  Vince Montana (Vent) and Thom Bell (Vent) as well as Baker, Harris and Young, (Golden Fleece). Gamble and Huff also produced at least 1  x  45 on them. 

Have you got this book?  (Bit of a plug here, LOL!)

Dave 😉 

 

 

 

 

Dave , honestly, you got that wrong and you assumed I meant The Ethics on Vent, when I did actually said on the same label as The Intentions on "Up Tight"

 

Ethics.jpg

The label is part of Clay Barclay's "Barclay" and associated labels set up from Orwigsburg - Three of the Ethics morphed into "The Cardboard Box" who had one 45 out, on the "regime" record label - Not a Soul record!!

Des

37 minutes ago, Soul Inc said:

The label is part of Clay Barclay's "Barclay" and associated labels set up from Orwigsburg - Three of the Ethics morphed into "The Cardboard Box" who had one 45 out, on the "regime" record label - Not a Soul record!!

Des

Did they have anything to do with this band

https://www.amazon.com/Flyte-1967-1968-Garage-Rock-Reading/dp/B000006OJO

  • Author
13 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Dave , honestly, you got that wrong and you assumed I meant The Ethics on Vent, when I did actually said on the same label as The Intentions on "Up Tight"

 

Ethics.jpg

Yep, my mistake.  I thought you were referring to The Ethics on Vent etc and not the ones on the Up Tight logo. My apologies.  Looks like the correct info has been forthcoming in the other posts though.

Dave 

 

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