Interested to hear what people think is the 'grittiest' Motown girl group single is? This topic can obviously include anything released on Motown subsidiaries..

Thinking raw but uptempo dancers...

Edited yesterday at 22:121 day by Northernjordan

Martha and the Vandellas " you've been in love too long"

For me it’s

The Marvelettes - I’ll keep Holding On

I do love The Supremes - Stormy - but wouldn’t say that’s gritty, more beautiful & heartbreaking

Don't know about 'gritty' but for me , for a raw emotional performance Gladys Knight's Just Walk In My Shoes blows most Motown girlies out of the water.

Probably not really a girlie group either but hey.

Hattie Littles - Is It True (What They Say About You)

Scheduled for Gordy 7004 in 1962 but unreleased.

Group ? Her first Motown release did have accompaniment by The Fayettes, maybe this is the same backing, gritty raw and uptempo.

Not sure I'd call them gritty, but Martha and the Vandellas always seemed to have a less polished sound than the other Motown groups, even the hits.

Can't really describe Mary Well's vocal style as gritty, it was a lot more smooth than that ... I've always liked this one though. It's a pity she left the company & the track was left in the vaults instead of escaping on 45 ...

This lady was certainly capable of delivering real soul with a gritty edge ... pity more of her early Motown stuff didn't escape at the time ...

Good club Soul classic n gritty Needle in a Haystack Velvelletes always sounds good especially loud in a club, no matter how many million times you’ve heard it.

Mick

1 hour ago, Roburt said:

This lady was certainly capable of delivering real soul with a gritty edge ... pity more of her early Motown stuff didn't escape at the time ...

You read my mind Robert , great voice too Soulful for Motown so I've read somewhere.

we're talking about Motown girl groups or female singers?

2 hours ago, Hooker1951 said:

Good club Soul classic n gritty Needle in a Haystack Velvelletes always sounds good especially loud in a club, no matter how many million times you’ve heard it.

Mick

Think I have to agree with Mick on this one

I don't think the majority of Motown's female releases could be classed as gritty, especially the girl groups. Even Mabel John didn't get gritty until she moved to Stax. The most gritty up tempo female related R&B I can think of is Sherri Taylor & Sammy Ward's Lover from 1960.

Hattie littles Black Belt

Gladys Knight and the Pips Stranger

Both with a bit of Northern soul grit

I think The Marvelettes earliest singles were the grittiest/least-polished girl group records that Motown released. Gladys Horton's voice is real raw on "Please Mr. Postman".

For female vocalists, I think it's between Mary Wells' "Bye Bye Baby" and pretty much everything Gladys Knight did.

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by Nick Soule

Always Loved This !!

Not so much grit but some bite, as with few of the early R&B orientated stuff, I do like LaBrenda Ben's Chaperone.

Not on single but from the first LP released on the actual Motown label in the US, Mary Wells version of Shop Around

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by Richard

The Andantes - (Like A) Nightmare - V.I.P

If it's OK I want to open up the discussion a bit.

Berry Gordy always strived to reach the biggest of audiences, i.e. the white pop market in addition to black buyers. So he played his cards to try to ensure Motown's releases would get much wider radio airplay, reach a far wider audience & thus sell many more units (either 45's or LPs). Hence the Quality Control meetings, the refinement of each acts actions (getting in & out of cars in a dignified way, etc.), the great 'classy' outfits his acts wore, the professional stage moves drilled into each act by Cholly Atkins. He saw the goal of his top acts as being at home in the nations top supper clubs (the Cocacabana, etc). Everything was to be classy & polished to help sell more units.

So, a gritty rough performer had to have their 'edges' smoothed off. I'm sure quite a few female (& male) Motown acts were capable of being raw & gritty but they were encouraged not to be. The companies in-house musicians would have had similar treatment -- class playing ruling over their more jazzy extremes.

On the singing side, I'll use Yvonne Fair as my example. (SOME OF WHAT FOLLOWS I'M ASSUMING) ... Chuck Jackson signed with Motown in late 67 & had his 1st Motown release in Jan 68. He had toured & was friends with Yvonne. She'd been without a record deal since 66. Chuck & Yvonne were part of the team Motown selected to perform on a big charity gig in May 68. It seems Chuck (on getting with Motown) insisted that they sign Yvonne asap (by May 68 at the latest). She was soon doing shows with Motown acts -- a big one being in early September 69 @ the Apollo that starred Smokey & the Miracles with Yvonne, Bobby Taylor, the Fantastic Four (& the Emotions) also on the bill. She also stepped in to do some concerts with Marvin Gaye when Tammi Terrell was too ill.

In the studio, Motown initially cut Yvonne on duet sessions with Chuck Jackson but none of those tracks were released. She was teamed with several producers at Motown but only one single was released "Stay A Little Longer" b/w "We Should Never Be Lonely My Love". The first studio session for these 45 tracks took place on 31 May 1968 but the 45 was released on SOUL (Motown's label for 'robust singers)' in July 1970 (a full 26 months later). The 45 seemed to receive no promotion at all. After that 45, Yvonne would go back into the studio on occasions but her next 45 didn't escape till May 74.

Yvonne had a proven record both on vinyl & on live shows but Motown seemed unsure if they should release any of the tracks she had cut for them up to May 74 -- by which time she'd been signed with them for at least SIX YEARS. It seems that she was indeed TOO GRITTY for the company, at least until funky tracks had started to sell in large quantities by the mid 70's.

I'd love to get Robb's input on this subject (... & in passing, was Edwin Starr too gritty for the company too ?).