Guest Andy Kempster Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 i have just bought this from manship on a torch label thingy, apparently this have never been released before, only on a japanese cd is this right??? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Eddie Hubbard Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 i have just bought this from manship on a torch label thingy, apparently this have never been released before, only on a japanese cd is this right??? Yes it was originally on a Japanese Goldwax CD , think it's on a green / white demo that Chris King put out as well .Best ,Eddie Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Garethx Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 I don't think there are any legitimate issues of this recording. Originally recorded for Goldwax at Fame studios. Goldwax folded and a few of the tracks in the can were issued on two singles by Fame in 1970-71. This track was not issued and remained unreleased until a Japanese compliation on Vivid Sound. I think it was the contention of the people handling Fame recordings (studio owner Rick Hall and latterly his son) that there was no legal basis for the Japanese issue as this particular track was owned by Fame. All subsequent releases on 45rpm originating in Britain are unauthorised. I'm sure Ady C or Tony Rounce can shed more light on this as I'm sure they would have loved to make this part of the Goldwax series of re-issues on Kent. But it seems it's not part of the Goldwax catalogue and hasn't been since the demise of the first Goldwax label in around 1970. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Andy Kempster Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 (edited) I don't think there are any legitimate issues of this recording. Originally recorded for Goldwax at Fame studios. Goldwax folded and a few of the tracks in the can were issued on two singles by Fame in 1970-71. This track was not issued and remained unreleased until a Japanese compliation on Vivid Sound. I think it was the contention of the people handling Fame recordings (studio owner Rick Hall and latterly his son) that there was no legal basis for the Japanese issue as this particular track was owned by Fame. All subsequent releases on 45rpm originating in Britain are unauthorised. I'm sure Ady C or Tony Rounce can shed more light on this as I'm sure they would have loved to make this part of the Goldwax series of re-issues on Kent. But it seems it's not part of the Goldwax catalogue and hasn't been since the demise of the first Goldwax label in around 1970. blimey, the plot thickens, what a great track this is, just dont want to play it out and get frogmarched away by the bootleg police Edited October 26, 2007 by Andy Kempster Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Dr Pickles Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 (edited) blimey, the plot thickens, what a great track this is, just dont want to play it out and get frogmarched away by the bootleg police Hi Andy I asked the same queston back in July and even ended up talking to Dave Porter at Vivid Records. It looks like he did have the rights for the small run he did on Torch Records. It looked like this was a legit release. Have a look at the thread - https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.p...&hl=spencer Fantastic record. Doc Edited October 26, 2007 by Dr Pickles Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Hi Andy I asked the same queston back in July and even ended up talking to Dave Porter at Vivid Records. It looks like he did have the rights for the small run he did on Torch Records. It looked like this was a legit release. Have a look at the thread - https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.p...&hl=spencer Fantastic record. Doc To set the record 100% straight, Dave licensed it in good faith from the record's producer Quinton Claunch, and thought that he therefore 'had the rights'. Unfortunately Quinton had actually sold his 'rights', along with Spencer's contract and a couple of other unissued SW Goldwax recordings, to Fame records in 1969. Thus they have never been legally licensed to anyone in Japan or the UK (or anywhere else) - although I suppose that, as producer, Quinton might have conisdered himself to have the 'moral' rights. Ace did try to license these tracks back from Fame to include on our Kent Spencer Wiggins 'Otherwise Complete Goldwax' CD, but no deal was ever able to be reached. Thus all UK issues of this are bootlegs, whether by accident or design! TONY Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pauldonnelly Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Thus all UK issues of this are bootlegs, whether by accident or design! TONY there you have it ladies and gents,,,expect a knock up at 5am if you play this on vinyl anywhere.. certainly up there with the best 50 dicoveries over that last 15 years. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Andy Kempster Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 To set the record 100% straight, Dave licensed it in good faith from the record's producer Quinton Claunch, and thought that he therefore 'had the rights'. Unfortunately Quinton had actually sold his 'rights', along with Spencer's contract and a couple of other unissued SW Goldwax recordings, to Fame records in 1969. Thus they have never been legally licensed to anyone in Japan or the UK (or anywhere else) - although I suppose that, as producer, Quinton might have conisdered himself to have the 'moral' rights. Ace did try to license these tracks back from Fame to include on our Kent Spencer Wiggins 'Otherwise Complete Goldwax' CD, but no deal was ever able to be reached. Thus all UK issues of this are bootlegs, whether by accident or design! TONY guess that just about sums it up. cheers Tony, be a shame not to spin it out. just in the confines of casa kempster it is then thanks again...andy Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Andy Kempster Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 cheers Chris, just read through that, makes for an interesting tale, guess its one for at home then and not out. once again we seem to be into the same tunes, great minds think alike Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
mischief Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Gutting not to be able to play this out great track.. but I understand where your coming from... I know we are going to have the " if its good then you should play it out" bit now.. but each to there own.. i'm sure some people will.. infact if anyone on here doesn't know it and dosen't mind playing boots- reissues whatever this comes under.. this is one of the best your get and not that many dj's will be playing it out so worth the £10/£15 quid.. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Gutting not to be able to play this out great track.. but I understand where your coming from... I know we are going to have the " if its good then you should play it out" bit now.. but each to there own.. i'm sure some people will.. infact if anyone on here doesn't know it and dosen't mind playing boots- reissues whatever this comes under.. this is one of the best your get and not that many dj's will be playing it out so worth the £10/£15 quid.. To be honest - and although I've said it is one - I don't think of this as being in the same class of bootleg as something that, say, Soussan, Jeff King or Otis Leavill and Chris Burton might have once done. As I said, Dave Porter undoubtedly thought that he was licensing it legitimately and in good faith, and I would like to think that even Chris King might have thought that he was doing likewise. It's not like someone coming along and sticking out some unreleased Motown track, like the recent Chris Clark boot, on a completely illegal 45. It's a completely wonderful track and, until Fame themselves either put it out or license it out, the two UK singles are the nearest thing you will get to a legit release of it (even though, by the letter of the law, they were released without the knowledge or consent of the actual master owner and thus have to be deemed bootlegs in the literal sense...) Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
mischief Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 No it just seems a shame, in this case.. Tony you will know this if any one does.. are there many records like this.. floating about.. you know unissued tracks that someone thought they had the rights to but a bit down the line it comes out that they never had them.. but they had tried to get them.. and they never just pressed it any way... (hope thats clear) right opff to pub Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pauldonnelly Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 No it just seems a shame, in this case.. Tony you will know this if any one does.. are there many records like this.. floating about.. you know unissued tracks that someone thought they had the rights to but a bit down the line it comes out that they never had them.. but they had tried to get them.. and they never just pressed it any way... (hope thats clear) right opff to pub 100's i Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Goldwax Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Don't suppose anyone would be kind enough to post a sound clip ? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve L Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I'm completely in favour of the original vinyl only argument but surely it would be crazy to suggest that this record shouldnt be enjoyed and danced to at venues? Dont want to start the whole argument up again but common sense tells me there has to be exceptions and this is one. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I'm completely in favour of the original vinyl only argument but surely it would be crazy to suggest that this record shouldnt be enjoyed and danced to at venues? Dont want to start the whole argument up again but common sense tells me there has to be exceptions and this is one. me too mate, if it's unissued get it played. it's no different really to getting a cut/vinyl carver of an unissued track done. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Phild Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 (edited) huh huh Edited October 27, 2007 by phild Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Gutting not to be able to play this out great track.. I have just been contacted by someone who has an inside connection to the "Soul police" . He has informed me that I can inform you that it WOULD be acceptable to play this out......So fear not, the soul police will not come knocking! Steve Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I have just been contacted by someone who has an inside connection to the "Soul police" . He has informed me that I can inform you that it WOULD be acceptable to play this out......So fear not, the soul police will not come knocking! Steve What about Levines stuff Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 What about Levines stuff I am not biting..... Cya l8r. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I am not biting..... Cya l8r. shucks see you later mate Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
mischief Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Steve G I think its outrageous that the "Soul Police" will comment on playing a boot - Reissue - whatever - but won't comment on one of Ian Levines tracks. which are legit issues may I add.... Spencer Wiggins great track.. at the end of the day... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sutty Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 i don't understand the question as such. the green and white 45 was played out all the time when it came out, i would never have assumed it wasn't being played? why the soul police enquiry now, it's a bit like closing the gate after the horse has bolted. There is no original release, just keep playing a great northern soul record! cheers Sutty Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Koolkat Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Can somebody enlighten me as to who or what the "Soul Police" means or stands for? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 i have just bought this from manship on a torch label thingy, apparently this have never been released before, only on a japanese cd is this right??? Hi Andy You might be interested to know that Spencer had completely forgotten about the song until just before he left his job driving trucks in Florida several years ago. Apparently, he had told some of the younger guys he worked with that he had recorded back in the day. So one of them searched the Net to find something out on Spencer. The first thing they found were references to Let's talk It Over! So when Spencer got back to the depot they bowled him with the news that Let's Talk It Over had surfaced and was being played on the Northern scene!!! It was a shame that Ace were not able to get the rights to the Fame sides - Fame still sit on many masters of unissued material and nobody knows whether they will be issued! However, the CD Tony referred to is still a great buy and has most of Spencer's Goldwax recordings and of course Ace are now releasing his equally good Sound Of Memphis recordings. If you drop over to my blog Keeping Soul Alive you can read my notes to the Goldwax CD based on an interview with Spencer. Cheers Colin https://indangerousrhythm.blogspot.com/ www.keepingsoulalive.blogspot.com Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Can somebody enlighten me as to who or what the "Soul Police" means or stands for? 1) It's a figment of the imaginations of some paranoid analy retentive types 2.) It's me and my pals if we disagree with you Godz Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Can somebody enlighten me as to who or what the "Soul Police" means or stands for? Me too - I don't see any evidence of them at work here. All I see is somone asking if this was a bootleg, me replying that technically, yes, it is (and giving the reasons why) and the 'someone' deciding that he didn't feel comfortable playing it out on those grounds. His decision, with no pressure from anyone who's contributed to this thread. Where did the 'Soul Police' come into it? Wouldn't they be better off knocking on the door of someone playing out something as a bootleg that was originally released on a proper record label? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Knock Knock... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Phild Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Me too - I don't see any evidence of them at work here. All I see is somone asking if this was a bootleg, me replying that technically, yes, it is (and giving the reasons why) and the 'someone' deciding that he didn't feel comfortable playing it out on those grounds. His decision, with no pressure from anyone who's contributed to this thread. Where did the 'Soul Police' come into it? Wouldn't they be better off knocking on the door of someone playing out something as a bootleg that was originally released on a proper record label? My apologies for introducing the Soul Police into this thread it was entirely inapproriate and i will now remove my post. i just get a little frustrated as to ther narrow-mindedness (only in my perception, of course) of some people. I still firmly believe that to decide not to play any track out because it didn't have a legitmate label release is nuts. Particularly when other tracks are "OK". On a slightly different topic, but related. I also believe that it's equally nuts for it not to be OK to play a track on CD that only got a legitimate release on CD, but it is OK to play a vinyl carver of it. Maybe it's just me Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Steve G I think its outrageous that the "Soul Police" will comment on playing a boot - Reissue - whatever - but won't comment on one of Ian Levines tracks. which are legit issues may I add.... Spencer Wiggins great track.. at the end of the day... Sorry think you are confusing me with the Soul police m8. No one suggested you couldn't play it, then from out of nowehere PhilD goes into his usual rant about "soul police gone mad" etc etc.....perhaps he's had his collar felt by these types once too often and now sees them everywhere. We've all been saying play it - so don't let Phil's paranoia about phantom "soul police" change that. As for Levine's stuff, I think the Soul Poilice have made their views quite clear on that, so let's not go down that route again Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 On a slightly different topic, but related. I also believe that it's equally nuts for it not to be OK to play a track on CD that only got a legitimate release on CD, but it is OK to play a vinyl carver of it. Maybe it's just me NO, it's me, too, Phil. This is a perfectly acceptable practice I'd say. It's one copy, made for one person and not for profit. I don't see how even the most ardent anti-bootlegger (and I'm pretty close to being that myself) could find anything to object about there... ...but I'm sure that someone will! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Phild Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Sorry think you are confusing me with the Soul police m8. No one suggested you couldn't play it, then from out of nowehere PhilD goes into his usual rant about "soul police gone mad" etc etc.....perhaps he's had his collar felt by these types once too often and now sees them everywhere. We've all been saying play it - so don't let Phil's paranoia about phantom "soul police" change that. As for Levine's stuff, I think the Soul Poilice have made their views quite clear on that, so let's not go down that route again I apologise for any and all of my posts. I have no paranoia about phantom "Soul Police" or anything else for that matter. I never said don't play it. My view is definitely play it. I just get frustrated as to why anyione would think it was not OK to play it. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sutty Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 (edited) . Edited October 28, 2007 by Sutty Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dylan Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 This is a fantastic record and one which should be played. Is there an original studio acetate of this in existence or is it just on tape ? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I just get frustrated as to why anyione would think it was not OK to play it. sorry Phil who said don't play it - maybe they've edited their post cos I can't find it? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 (edited) This is a fantastic record and one which should be played. Is there an original studio acetate of this in existence or is it just on tape ? Big record for Rob Marriott befoer the cd ever surfaced. can't remember if original acetate or one some one had cut so this coulds be played out Edited October 27, 2007 by chalky Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Phild Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 sorry Phil who said don't play it - maybe they've edited their post cos I can't find it? Just scroll up mate. Both AndyK123 and mischief in earlier posts said it was "a shame not to be able to play it out" and "guess it's one for home then" Phil Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Just scroll up mate. Both AndyK123 and mischief in earlier posts said it was "a shame not to be able to play it out" and "guess it's one for home then" Phil Your ok then,as your not bothered about the scene. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Just scroll up mate. Both AndyK123 and mischief in earlier posts said it was "a shame not to be able to play it out" and "guess it's one for home then" Phil Ah over zeleous "Self policing" then - I think I understand now Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sean Hampsey Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Just for the record. We played this at PITCHES as a new release when the Jap CD first came out. Kev Briscoe played it off the CD. No complaints, just applause. So much ball@cks about what 'can' and 'can't' be played. Doctrines spread by idiots with vested interests... and no feckin' ears. It's all about the music! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Doctrines spread by idiots with vested interests... and no feckin' ears. Totally misread your post at first Sean. Thought you wrote "vested idiots" and we were back on fashion again Back to the record though - how come the green and white one is referred to as a Chris King jobbie? I thought it was a Goldmine / Soul Supply release and therefore K*v R*b*rts? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Kevinkent Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 (edited) I didn't go for the torch issue and got a copy of the SS one as I thought that was the legit copy in the absence if a Goldwax release. Horrified when I started reading this thread 'cos this is a top tune and I was going to start off my next set at Ramsgate with it. So - thanks for all the knowledgeable postings on this thread . Decision made................ ....I'm playing it! "STOLEN HOURS" 1st Anniversary, ***RAMSGATE*** 24th NOVEMBER. 2 Rooms + Accomodation + Free unissued Vinyl (first 100 tickets) *** Change of venue - see Events thread *** Edited October 27, 2007 by KevinKent Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
mischief Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Just scroll up mate. Both AndyK123 and mischief in earlier posts said it was "a shame not to be able to play it out" and "guess it's one for home then" Phil Phil I wrote:- Gutting not to be able to play this out great track.. but I understand where your coming from... I know we are going to have the " if its good then you should play it out" bit now.. but each to there own.. i'm sure some people will.. infact if anyone on here doesn't know it and dosen't mind playing boots- reissues whatever this comes under.. this is one of the best your get and not that many dj's will be playing it out so worth the £10/£15 quid.. This is from a personnal view, if you want to play it out thats not a problem for me... I set my own standards for djing.. and i'm happy with that.. (some say they are not very high ) as far as CD's go, I can't comment on that as I rarely buy them £10/£15 for a CD or a 7"... I'd buy a 7" Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
mischief Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 (edited) ....I'm playing it! (quoting Kevin Kent) and i'll be up dancing to it Edited October 27, 2007 by mischief Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 (edited) Totally misread your post at first Sean. Thought you wrote "vested idiots" and we were back on fashion again Back to the record though - how come the green and white one is referred to as a Chris King jobbie? I thought it was a Goldmine / Soul Supply release and therefore K*v R*b*rts? These came out at the same time that King did his Okeh CD and the Hesitations/Freddie Butler. I am at least 90% certain that it was he who did the deals to license them legitimately. Which goes to prove that even the biggest poachers have to turn gamekeeper sometime Edited October 27, 2007 by TONY ROUNCE Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Tsu Tomatoes Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 guess that just about sums it up. cheers Tony, be a shame not to spin it out. just in the confines of casa kempster it is then thanks again...andy Stick it on a CDR Andy and pretend you're playing it from the Jap CD Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 How much is the Jap CD,are we allowed to say Jap? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Koolkat Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Sod the soul police. I want one now.. that inst middle bit just does it for me.What a sound. Carry on. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Phild Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Your ok then,as your not bothered about the scene. Sorry Ken. I forgot that cos I don't go anywhere anymore I'm not entitled to an opinion. The 21st century is my version of the "stay at home 80's". I'll try not to post in topics that I don't concern me anymore. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Sorry Ken. I forgot that cos I don't go anywhere anymore I'm not entitled to an opinion. The 21st century is my version of the "stay at home 80's". I'll try not to post in topics that I don't concern me anymore. Fine by me!! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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