Can anyone tell me how to tell the pale blue uptite copy from a bootleg? I believe its this copy that got booted? Any label scans to help?

Much appreciated!

Deb

Edited June 20, 201311 yr by 45cellar
Artist Tag

There is a little mark in the deadwax and it says something like MatrixAudio but its not stamped in full.

Think the blue bootleg had Italic writing on Uptite bit, original was in capitals and had 2 lines, although last of the 3rd presses was in Italic too !! all were vinyl and flat run in's

Ths stamp is very hard to see and make out on a lot of copys as it looked like it missed or was stamped on a bad angle.

Original vinyl was flat too, the bootleg had a bevelled run in

JM guide says original blue copys were thin vinyl but i have had thick & thin ones.

the last boot had a bright blue label and was styrene.

Edited January 23, 200817 yr by tmg544

Think the blue bootleg had Italic writing on Uptite bit, original was in capitals and had 2 lines.

Original vinyl was flat too, the bootleg had a bevelled run in

JM guide says original blue copys were thin vinyl but i have had thick & thin ones.

the last boot had a bright blue label and was styrene.

I think this was issued in 3 different designs :-

Yellow issue - Uptite in italics

Blue issue - as above (booted with this design)

Blue issue - 2 lines

Edited January 23, 200817 yr by ShorterSoul

This must be a boot then? Definitely vinyl, but its very thin and flat, not bevelled. There is only what looks like an 'R' stamped in the matrix. see label scan below. What do you guys think?

Good job I can get me money back...

Deb

This must be a boot then? Definitely vinyl, but its very thin and flat, not bevelled. There is only what looks like an 'R' stamped in the matrix. see label scan below. What do you guys think?

Good job I can get me money back...

Deb

I think it's right, certainly looks it, and it should be thin vinyl. mines the same Deb, and i got it from a reputable source who got em from the states many years ago

steve

I think it's right, certainly looks it, and it should be thin vinyl. mines the same Deb, and i got it from a reputable source who got em from the states many years ago

steve

Fantastic! I'll keep it then. If anyone pulls me for playing bootlegs out I'll tell em you told me to

just kiddin!!

Deb

This must be a boot then? Definitely vinyl, but its very thin and flat, not bevelled. There is only what looks like an 'R' stamped in the matrix. see label scan below. What do you guys think?

Good job I can get me money back...

Deb

Yeah I agree, definite Original. Uptite title design is different on the vinyl boot and a slightly different shade of blue.

Yeah I agree, definite Original. Uptite title design is different on the vinyl boot and a slightly different shade of blue.

Thanks, everyone for your help

Deb

I think this was issued in 3 different designs :-

Yellow issue - Uptite in italics

Blue issue - as above (booted with this design)

Blue issue - 2 lines

So the blue issue wih two lines across the middle and the address written under UPTITE was never booted? That's the one i've got but i always assumed it was a boot?

I've got a feeling both blue issues were booted.

So the blue issue wih two lines across the middle and the address written under UPTITE was never booted? That's the one i've got but i always assumed it was a boot?

I've got a feeling both blue issues were booted.

I've been told the blue issue with two lines hasn't been booted. Could be wrong though. I usually am!

Sorry I cant help!

Deb

I've been told the blue issue with two lines hasn't been booted. Could be wrong though. I usually am!

Sorry I cant help!

Deb

Hi Deb, I looked at your scan, next to the number in the dead wax do you see a tiny line mark to the right.

Its an original keep it.

Hi Deb, I looked at your scan, next to the number in the dead wax do you see a tiny line mark to the right.

Its an original keep it.

The Original YELOW Copy

--<--_Click on Image to Enlarge

However, the copy with the 2 Lines has two different presses.

The 2nd Lined one, I think is the possible dodgy one, thoughts anyone.

--<--_Click on Image to Enlarge

--<--_Click on Image to Enlarge

-------------Has a smaller Deadwax.

Edited January 24, 200817 yr by 45cellar

The Original YELOW Copy

--<--_Click on Image to Enlarge

However, the copy with the 2 Lines has two different presses.

The 2nd Lined one, I think is the possible dodgy one, thoughts anyone.

--<--_Click on Image to Enlarge

--<--_Click on Image to Enlarge

-------------Has a smaller Deadwax.

Intresting, didn't know there are two variations of the blue lined copy! My Blue lined copy is like the top one and this came from a very reliable USA contact. My Yellow copy is very like the blue unlined original, nearly indentical apart from colour.

If you look at the 2 lines on the boot they are higher in comparison to the centre of the record, on the original they are central and equal to the centre hole

don't think the thin vinyl bit is right cos i have had thick & thin ones.

If you look at the 2 lines on the boot they are higher in comparison to the centre of the record, on the original they are central and equal to the centre hole

don't think the thin vinyl bit is right cos i have had thick & thin ones.

Odd one this.I had a copy of the two lined lighter one several years ago and seem to recall it was stamped albeit lightly.

However if you look at the record timing it is 2.01 on this copy and 2.35 on the other 2!!!

Odd one this.I had a copy of the two lined lighter one several years ago and seem to recall it was stamped albeit lightly.

However if you look at the record timing it is 2.01 on this copy and 2.35 on the other 2!!!

The plot thickens! So whats the general thought then? Do I keep the copy I got? See Scan above....

Confused...

Deb

for what it is worth..............same as mine ( R ) thin vinyl etc etc, same as yellow press but blue label ( did they just do a second run ? )

and mine is an original as confirmed by far clevererererepeople than me

so just keep it,

good luck

I have another 45 on the blue italic UPTITE label with the "R" stamp........exactly the same as my Superlatives 45 and as this is no way a known sound I guess its ok to say the blue unlined 45 with an "R" stamp are legit.

Rob

I have another 45 on the blue italic UPTITE label with the "R" stamp........exactly the same as my Superlatives 45 and as this is no way a known sound I guess its ok to say the blue unlined 45 with an "R" stamp are legit.

Rob

Yes.

https://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showim...=0&format=0

Is this a boot or not? You said there's an Uptite issue with italic writing but is it a boot or not?

https://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showim...=0&format=0

Is this a boot or not? You said there's an Uptite issue with italic writing but is it a boot or not?

Yes - this one is a boot.

The only real "italic" ones are the Yellow and Blue copies as detailed in above postings.

Cheers

Mick Holdsworth

https://northern-soul-records.com

https://motownsound.co.uk

https://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showim...=0&format=0

Is this a boot or not? You said there's an Uptite issue with italic writing but is it a boot or not?

https://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showim...=0&format=0

My copy is the same as the one in the link

run out grooves it says 'JC - U - 250 - A' for ISLY

and on the flip 'U - 250 - B - JC, the JC is at the end??

Hope this helps

Steve

Edited December 4, 200816 yr by steve

Don't forget the initial yellow label vinyl bootleg of "I Still Love You", (C.1973).

Plain typo and therefore easy to spot, fortunately!

Edited December 4, 200816 yr by mel brat

The Original YELOW Copy

--<--_Click on Image to Enlarge

However, the copy with the 2 Lines has two different presses.

The 2nd Lined one, I think is the possible dodgy one, thoughts anyone.

--<--_Click on Image to Enlarge

--<--_Click on Image to Enlarge

-------------Has a smaller Deadwax.

I think on the boot the run time is 201 on the orig is 235 gigs chesterfield

I think this was issued in 3 different designs :-

Yellow issue - Uptite in italics

Blue issue - as above (booted with this design)

Blue issue - 2 lines

We never pressed up any blue labels.

Paul Kyser

We never pressed up any blue labels.

Paul Kyser

Hi Paul

Welcome to Soul Source.

Just been reading your Introduction. >>> LINK <<<

Regarding "I STILL LOVE YOU" Intriguing,

Are you saying that only Yellow Label Copies were pressed WHEN Originally Released, or have I misunderstood.

Look forward to your contribution on Soul Source.

Edited February 11, 200916 yr by 45cellar

We never pressed up any blue labels.

Paul Kyser

Paul,

I can assure you, the yellow label copy, also comes with a blue label and they were both pressed from the same masterplate. The deadwax width and matrix details are absolutely identical. Did you only recieve yellow copies from the plant?

The 2 lined light blue copy with 2:35 time text, I have personally and i know other dealers have found several copies over the years, mostly on the east coast. The 2.01 timed copy is considered a bootleg of unknown origin.

It is very possible that someone unbeknown to you and us collectors pressed the lined copy, as that doesn't use the masterplate of the yellow copy. But it does carry a matrix stamp in the deadwax.

Unfortunately it wasn't just the Brits who bootlegged records, even as the original was released or shortly after release date. As an example, there is a very suspicious Edwin Starr - Stop Her On Sight - Ric Tic made from vinyl with two lines on the label, which only seems to turn up in L.A. which I'm pretty sure this was a bootleg pressed by a unscrupulous distributor or retail outlet.

And of course many Motown hits were bootlegged at the time of release, and countless other labels suffered this intrusion of copyright, it was, after all, a very easy way to make money.

We have all the different presses on the shelves at the moment, I just checked the yellow against the blue again and like I say they are identical except for the label colour.

A puzzle indeed... I remember talking to a label owner recently who had no idea a record of his was also pressed by a member of the group and sold on. There are so many explanations for different labels and label designs. My expertise is to concentrate on te 45s that were especially bootlegged by Northern Soul dealers to decieve or to look similiar to the original. Once we get into the area of the USA side of replicas, bootlegs or reisssues.. that can be a minefield.

May I take this opportunity to congratulate you on some mighty fine productions. I personaly just love Robby Lawson's - I Have Searched - Kyser of of the truly great "undiscovered" soul ballads.

John

Picked this one up at a flea market in Millville NJ, bloke selling baseball cards, so not a bloke selling records in general $0.50.

had a good look round the deadwax, there is a stampmark on this copy, both sides, both identical distance from the matrix No,

had under bright lights, magnified, can not make out at all any lettering but it's defo a stamp.

Please check your copies and see if anyone can make any letters out.

Thanking you in anticipation

distances of stamp details.

Edited June 17, 201014 yr by Tony A

What about this one that's currently on ebay, does this look like an original or not?

This is on Ebay at the mo and states it's a 2nd issue looks quite dark

https://www.ebay.co.u...=item3a7071d036

and this

https://www.popsike.c...60431144975.jpg

The "U" is totally different on these two than the original posted one !

And this is differentto any of the others posted ! Paper label on vinyl i recon ?

https://www.popsike.c...80491047020.jpg

Edited February 18, 201213 yr by allnightandy

So that's six different versions of this and we're still not 100% which are boots? I thought mine was one of the two blue ones posted by Roger earlier, but now i'm thinking it looks like the last one Andy posted. I'll have to dig it out and post it up tomorrow. I always thought it was a boot, so at least we can rule that one out.

What about this one that's currently on ebay, does this look like an original or not?

Just seen this on EBay, I thought this was a boot with the narrow run out & 2.01 running time. Not 100per cent sure though. I wouldn't pay £65 for it anyway.

Edited February 19, 201213 yr by CRUMB

I have had this copy of the Uptite with the "tailed" U for about a thousand years

Etched JC on the dead wax as mentioned above (it may be the same one as mentioned earlier in the thread but image has gone) but not listed as a boot on Discogs just a re-issue ?  (Lee Jeffries and a couple of others have copies for sale) and they have been sold on Evilbay before

Before I start thinking about selling this and inadvertently ripping some unsuspecting buyer off I would really like to know please ? (oh and not just "it is a boot" but how someone knows it is)

 

Edited November 28, 20213 yr by Blackpoolsoul

3 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I have had this copy of the Uptite with the "tailed" U for about a thousand years

Etched JC on the dead wax as mentioned above (it may be the same one as mentioned earlier in the thread but image has gone) but not listed as a boot on Discogs just a re-issue ?  (Lee Jeffries and a couple of others have copies for sale) and they have been sold on Evilbay before

Before I start thinking about selling this and inadvertently ripping some unsuspecting buyer off I would really like to know please ? (oh and not just "it is a boot" but how someone knows it is)

 

It is not an original.  It's a copy of the original blue label. These have been around since the early to mid 70's and are sold as bootlegs, reissues or whatever!

Edited November 28, 20213 yr by D9 Ktf

33 minutes ago, D9 Ktf said:

It is not an original.  It's a copy of the original blue label. These have been around since the early to mid 70's and are sold as bootlegs, reissues or whatever!

Thanks but that sentence "sold as bootlegs, reissues or whatever!" really does not help me, it's a bit vague

It's a bootleg does that help

59 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Thanks but that sentence "sold as bootlegs, reissues or whatever!" really does not help me, it's a bit vague

I said "it is not an original"  and that's not vague! 

The very illegal nature of bootlegging means there will be no documentation. They just want to slip them out with as little attention as they can get!

58 minutes ago, D9 Ktf said:

I said "it is not an original"  and that's not vague! 

The very illegal nature of bootlegging means there will be no documentation. They just want to slip them out with as little attention as they can get!

The fact that you said It's not an original means it "could" be a repress / reissue / counterfeit / bootleg or repro, all of which are copies (legal or not) has to be somewhat vague surely

There are enough on line sellers using the term reissue and missing out the word bootleg conning the £££'s out of people, so please forgive me for trying to be accurate.

I have just spoken to someone who has Manships 5th Edition guide and he has confirmed that it is a bootleg / repro which is the proof (and documented) I needed.

Thanks anyway for your help and at least no one else will get ripped off again (let's hope 😀) It appears I wasted 50p

spend a few quid Alan and turn it into a clock

 

32 minutes ago, Kenb said:

spend a few quid Alan and turn it into a clock

 

How much are the hands buddy as 50p is a lot to spend and I was hoping to get enough for it so I could invest in Manships guide to support him in his old age retirement fund (his books are well expensive, but clearly useful TBF)

Edited November 28, 20213 yr by Blackpoolsoul

On 28/11/2021 at 11:40, D9 Ktf said:

It is not an original.  It's a copy of the original blue label. These have been around since the early to mid 70's and are sold as bootlegs, reissues or whatever!

 

On 28/11/2021 at 16:17, Kenb said:

spend a few quid Alan and turn it into a clock

 

 

On 28/11/2021 at 12:22, Headsy said:

It's a bootleg does that help

I have seen the same copy as mine on a well known site run by a father and son in Leicestershire and you indicated mine was a bootleg (one said re-issue,whatever), please help my confusion

"Original 2nd Legal Issue From 1969 Matrix Has JC In Run Out Plus Correct Time 2:35 On Label NOT 2:01 Like 1974 Unofficial Press, Top 10 Northern Oldie & Brill B Side Also A played Sound Now"

https://www.rarenorthernsoul.com/i-still-love-you-we-re-so-lonely

 

Edited April 2, 20223 yr by Blackpoolsoul

Discogs has the same exact info and also calls it a 1969 repress. What's strange is the company had been out of business for 2 years by then, and I don't know why they would decide to re-open their business  and release the 45 again. 

32 minutes ago, The Yank said:

Discogs has the same exact info and also calls it a 1969 repress. What's strange is the company had been out of business for 2 years by then, and I don't know why they would decide to re-open their business  and release the 45 again. 

I see this thread was added, but the "expert" in New York poo pooed Soul Source, said he knew best and it's real

They are getting mixed up and messing it up and letting people get fooled (again) if what has been said on here is correct.

 

Edited April 2, 20223 yr by Blackpoolsoul

14 hours ago, The Yank said:

Discogs has the same exact info and also calls it a 1969 repress. What's strange is the company had been out of business for 2 years by then, and I don't know why they would decide to re-open their business  and release the 45 again. 

As far as I remember being told  and reading, The Northern scene in The UK was in its very early stages in 1969.  But, I seem to remember being told that this Superlatives record was "discovered" by The Scene during The 1970s.  IF that's true, then this later pressing couldn't have been pressed up because of UK demand.  It's too fast to have been pressed up for The Beach Scene, even if that scene was requesting that old records be pressed up for them.  It also wouldn't have been pressed up for The US VGH Oldies collectors, as it is too fast.  And neither side was "old enough sounding" for them.  So, it's a bit perplexing,  However, several producers having held onto their master tapes have been known to re-open defunct labels and re-issue records on them (some of them 10 + years later).  So, it might be possible that it's a legitimate re-issue.  But, to be honest, I always thought it was a boot.  And I've been told that by British NS collectors several times, as well.