put a sounclip of this in media section yesterday, and there seems to be some question as to the authenticity of this record, a couple of people are under the impression these were made from tapes? it has allways been my belief that this record was one of the rarest of the rare, and has stayed so since the late seventies, whats your view on this record

put a sounclip of this in media section yesterday, and there seems to be some question as to the authenticity of this record, a couple of people are under the impression these were made from tapes? it has allways been my belief that this record was one of the rarest of the rare, and has stayed so since the late seventies, whats your view on this record

Harry

I am lucky enough to have owned a copy since Jim Wensiora sold up in 1988 it has the same stamp in runouts as John and the weidest and Sweets (not the pisss poor boots someone did a few years ago)

Ted

Harry

I am lucky enough to have owned a copy since Jim Wensiora sold up in 1988 it has the same stamp in runouts as John and the weidest and Sweets (not the pisss poor boots someone did a few years ago)

Ted

morning ted, i`m with you 100% on this one, ive never ever seen one for sale, must be one of the rarest, you are very lucky ted superb tune, certainly not questioning the authenticity in my eyes

morning ted, i`m with you 100% on this one, ive never ever seen one for sale, must be one of the rarest, you are very lucky ted superb tune, certainly not questioning the authenticity in my eyes

I remember years ago Steve Smith questioning its authenticity as it was a pink label but i think he was winding people up

I remember years ago Steve Smith questioning its authenticity as it was a pink label but i think he was winding people up

I also heard the story about him not being signed to SOULTOWN how much credibility is in that TED?

I also heard the story about him not being signed to SOULTOWN how much credibility is in that TED?

When John Hillyard spoke to Ray Agee and asked Ray about his record on Soul Town he had no idea it had been released. But he did remember the session..

We have a copy lined up for auction, when I can fit it in..

Edited April 17, 200817 yr by john manship

there you are Harry start saving your pennies

there you are Harry start saving your pennies

Don`t think theres enough in my penny jar ted, a re-mortgage might be an option ted

When John Hillyard spoke to Ray Agee and asked Ray about his record on Soul Town he had no idea it had been released. But he did remember the session..

We have a copy lined up for auction, when I can fit it in..

Morning John

What happen to John Hillyard, someone told me he is no longer with us. Same, he found many a fine record back in the day and he was a nice guy.

Dave

When John Hillyard spoke to Ray Agee and asked Ray about his record on Soul Town he had no idea it had been released. But he did remember the session..

We have a copy lined up for auction, when I can fit it in..

When i can fit it in!!! what an awful situation to be in john

Morning John

What happen to John Hillyard, someone told me he is no longer with us. Same, he found many a fine record back in the day and he was a nice guy.

Dave

Morning mate,

John Hilyard was perhaps the most interesting record man on th planet during the 70s & 80s and part of the 90s. As you say he found so many fabulous 45s. Unfortunately he died some years back, if anyone anywhere has a photo of this guy or the huge stock he had, post it up.. you'll see what I mean..

there was and never will be another John Hillyard.. and miss him and his vinyl. Which mysterious evaporated upon his death.. 100s of thousands of California 45s.. are missing somewhere... that would be a great find if his stock turned up again.

john

So if the record is a delta stamped disc you can date it from the matrix numbers cool.

Edited April 17, 200817 yr by Prophonics 2029

So if the record is a delta stamped disc you can date it from the matrix numbers cool.

Theres a table with dates and numbers in johns bootlegg book at the begining

Theres a table with dates and numbers in johns bootlegg book at the begining

If its Monatrch.

i understand the confussion over authenticity is as JM says Ray Agee did not know it was released and as far as i know soultown did not have permission for it - hence claims that its not 'real'. but you could say that about pleny of 60s soul records lol.

Yes but I don't have the book an further more I don't have a copy of the record.

I know these two

Satisfy Me Baby/ Something About Soultown 105 * 1967

That's the same thing / Talk about a woman - Soultown 201 * 1965

There's That Mountain/ Love Can't be Modernized - Soultown 716

Edited April 17, 200817 yr by Prophonics 2029

Ray Agee is not Monach stamped it has a circle with what looks like AS in it it has a delta number 66575-x record no S104

the Sweets has a delta 68418

John and the wierdest also has the circle stamp and a delta of 68365

Harry

I am lucky enough to have owned a copy since Jim Wensiora sold up in 1988 it has the same stamp in runouts as John and the weidest and Sweets (not the pisss poor boots someone did a few years ago)

Ted

I collected records in Los Angeles for over thirty years, and turned up one copy of the record, which I sold off Ebay to a well known collector about three years ago. Great record, and I transferred it to a CD before I sold it. My friend, another long time collector, used to see Agee hanging around the Adams district in Los Angeles with his cane. Jerry White, another musician and record producer, briefly reissued some of Agee's Celeste and Shirley sides onto a vinyl LP back in the 70's. He had that sonorous voice, like Percy Mayfield, just a great singer.

I remember years ago Steve Smith questioning its authenticity as it was a pink label but i think he was winding people up

The Tempos was on pink aswell 1965 if I remember correctly

Regards

Paul

Yes but I don't have the book an further more I don't have a copy of the record.

I know these two

Satisfy Me Baby/ Something About Soultown 105 * 1967

That's the same thing / Talk about a woman - Soultown 201 * 1965

There's That Mountain/ Love Can't be Modernized - Soultown 716

The Masquaders was a different Soultown out of Dallas Texas I belive, although R&B Indies recons Detroit

Regards

Paul

Ray Agee is not Monach stamped it has a circle with what looks like AS in it it has a delta number 66575-x record no S104

the Sweets has a delta 68418

John and the wierdest also has the circle stamp and a delta of 68365

The Trips and The Sweets have a £/C in circle I looked at it like when you read the letters but I wasn't sure about how the Trips rate seeing its a boot come alternative take issue.

Edited April 17, 200817 yr by Prophonics 2029

The Trips and The Sweets have a £/C in circle I looked at it like when you read the letters but I wasn't sure about how the Trips rate seeing its a boot come alternative take issue.

so you think its a £ sign it does on second look but cant be unless they knew how much they would be worth in 40 years time

First and last copy of Ray Agee I saw on sale was on Ian Clark's list in 1984, for a mere £90! Jeez, if I knew then what I know now................

so you think its a £ sign it does on second look but cant be unless they knew how much they would be worth in 40 years time

Yes Ted I bet your right, or its a 7 with an - through it but then the C is the wrong way round and -\_ unless its all Greek.

I will see if i can take a picture.

Edited April 18, 200817 yr by Prophonics 2029

I collected records in Los Angeles for over thirty years, and turned up one copy of the record, which I sold off Ebay to a well known collector about three years ago. Great record, and I transferred it to a CD before I sold it. My friend, another long time collector, used to see Agee hanging around the Adams district in Los Angeles with his cane. Jerry White, another musician and record producer, briefly reissued some of Agee's Celeste and Shirley sides onto a vinyl LP back in the 70's. He had that sonorous voice, like Percy Mayfield, just a great singer.

Funny name, for a cane.. 'Jerry White' !! but seriously , though..

I'm assuming, then, this LP is the one titled (on the outer cover) as 'Love Is A Gamble' (Ray Agee) while the crimson red label of the disc reads 'White Enterprises presents Ray Agee' (LW-102) ?? (wonder what 101 is.. ?? )

In-terest-ingly enough.. (and as I have, only just recently, been voicing to some folks) this album contains, what I believe could quite easily be the musical template for this thread's 45 of topic - 'I'm Losing Again' - found within the rifts used for the earlier 'Hard Working Man' (which saw a celeste 45 release) !!

Mmmmm..

Fingers..

Edited April 18, 200817 yr by FickleFingers

A bit of a blurr but the basic are there.

A bit of a blurr but the basic are there.

Bloody hell still cant understand it if you rub talc in it it might be clearer

Funny name, for a cane.. 'Jerry White' !! but seriously , though..

I'm assuming, then, this LP is the one titled (on the outer cover) as 'Love Is A Gamble' (Ray Agee) while the crimson red label of the disc reads 'White Enterprises presents Ray Agee' (LW-102) ?? (wonder what 101 is.. ?? )

In-terest-ingly enough.. (and as I have, only just recently, been voicing to some folks) this album contains, what I believe could quite easily be the musical template for this thread's 45 of topic - 'I'm Losing Again' - found within the rifts used for the earlier 'Hard Working Man' (which saw a celeste 45 release) !!

Mmmmm..

Fingers..

Went through a Ray Agee phase a few years back and had a fair few of his singles and lp's.. and you are bang on the money about Hard Working Man sounding similar to the Soultown 45.

I do have the Celeste single somewhere... must remember to dig it out... love that label design

First and last copy of Ray Agee I saw on sale was on Ian Clark's list in 1984, for a mere £90! Jeez, if I knew then what I know now................

That's my copy, still got it too.

Bloody hell still cant understand it if you rub talc in it it might be clearer

Its not that its not clear is my shakey hands, its all so small and trying to hold a camera that still without a tripod is trickey.

Wonder if its Heirogliphics.

So what dose this stamp detail refer to is it a Monarch detail or another pressing plant??

Edited April 22, 200817 yr by Prophonics 2029

It's Greek,hence being known as the "Delta" numbering system.

Are yes but it could be used as in the Latin context for difference.

Its the other symbols that are baffling me.

Edited April 22, 200817 yr by Prophonics 2029

Fab record. There are a couple of soundclips out there, one considerably slower than the other.

Did jocks soup it up years ago to suit Wigan era dancefloors?

Morning mate,

John Hilyard was perhaps the most interesting record man on th planet during the 70s & 80s and part of the 90s. As you say he found so many fabulous 45s. Unfortunately he died some years back, if anyone anywhere has a photo of this guy or the huge stock he had, post it up.. you'll see what I mean..

there was and never will be another John Hillyard.. and miss him and his vinyl. Which mysterious evaporated upon his death.. 100s of thousands of California 45s.. are missing somewhere... that would be a great find if his stock turned up again.

john

They are not missing...

He moved from Hollywood over 15 years ago to Northern California, opened a store there (a favorite haunt for japanese buyers and Dj shadow's early digging days), and decided to close just a couple of years before 45s got really hot..You could say he missed the boat, poor guy.

I sold next to him at local Los Angeles record shows in the 80's, and he was a hoot...He knew a LOT.

He came from Canada during the summer of love and was friends with many inner circle record industry and musician types. And they all gave him their records...MILLIONS of em'. When there were millions of em'. And he stored them all over southern california, including in chicken coops...

When he shut down his store in the late 90's, he left the front door unlocked...with probably half a million records sitting there. He attepted to store what he felt were the better records, and was having a friend sell those, which were pretty picked over by then. But the discs still in the shop eventually wound up back in Los Angeles at the former location of Rene's all ears record store while it was between renters...All for 50 cents a record. 100+ count boxes of then worthless records including Lori Hamton, VIP demos of Bobby Taylor, Kim Tamango, etc. I bought 5000 45s there.

And the chicken coop records wound up in a local record store near Magic Mountain where Nancy soultastic (who swore 100 times shw wasnt a dealer...real funny) and Barry Wickham got the best.

And yes, he was found dead in a storage unit...

If someone is motivated, google image search "midnight in a perfect world" 12" cover art by dj Shadow and B+....That is Hilliard's photo in his store back then.

Regarding the Ray Agee 45, when I told John Tefteller what I paid for my soultown 45, he raised the pitch in his voice and said he walked across a bunch spilled across the floor at a black music distibutors in the late 70's...

They are not missing...

He moved from Hollywood over 15 years ago to Northern California, opened a store there (a favorite haunt for japanese buyers and Dj shadow's early digging days), and decided to close just a couple of years before 45s got really hot..You could say he missed the boat, poor guy.

I sold next to him at local Los Angeles record shows in the 80's, and he was a hoot...He knew a LOT.

He came from Canada during the summer of love and was friends with many inner circle record industry and musician types. And they all gave him their records...MILLIONS of em'. When there were millions of em'. And he stored them all over southern california, including in chicken coops...

When he shut down his store in the late 90's, he left the front door unlocked...with probably half a million records sitting there. He attepted to store what he felt were the better records, and was having a friend sell those, which were pretty picked over by then. But the discs still in the shop eventually wound up back in Los Angeles at the former location of Rene's all ears record store while it was between renters...All for 50 cents a record. 100+ count boxes of then worthless records including Lori Hamton, VIP demos of Bobby Taylor, Kim Tamango, etc. I bought 5000 45s there.

And the chicken coop records wound up in a local record store near Magic Mountain where Nancy soultastic (who swore 100 times shw wasnt a dealer...real funny) and Barry Wickham got the best.

And yes, he was found dead in a storage unit...

If someone is motivated, google image search "midnight in a perfect world" 12" cover art by dj Shadow and B+....That is Hilliard's photo in his store back then.

Regarding the Ray Agee 45, when I told John Tefteller what I paid for my soultown 45, he raised the pitch in his voice and said he walked across a bunch spilled across the floor at a black music distibutors in the late 70's...

So the load got dispersed? Is he dead? or was that a rumour to put us Brits off the scent

It was a well picked over load, but like you say, what was bad in the 90s can be great today.

At his Merced shop every UK collector and his sister went through them. But everyone always left the piled up boxes at the back of the store alone, figuring they had been picked. There must have been some fine stuff for today, ihose piles. On my last visit to see him I was still finding the likes of Chuck Cockerham filed in his country music section...and loads of obscure L.A. stuff he'd had for years.

Yeh, Nancy and the chicken coop a famous find! Was that Hillyard's stuff? Surely not from the Merced store, cause Nancy considered that at the time was her best find ever? Loads of Okeh demo's etc. I can't imagine such obvious 45s coming from his store in Merced.. but there you go, perhaps they did.

To this day he is the most interesting of all record guys, and is a legend. The Brits owe a lot to the records that guy found, always cheap and he always had amazing stuff. I know Butch, Clarky, Mick Godfrey & myself always did well with him. If he ain't dead send him my regards when you see him.

Edited April 22, 200817 yr by john manship

They are not missing...

He moved from Hollywood over 15 years ago to Northern California, opened a store there (a favorite haunt for japanese buyers and Dj shadow's early digging days), and decided to close just a couple of years before 45s got really hot..You could say he missed the boat, poor guy.

I sold next to him at local Los Angeles record shows in the 80's, and he was a hoot...He knew a LOT.

He came from Canada during the summer of love and was friends with many inner circle record industry and musician types. And they all gave him their records...MILLIONS of em'. When there were millions of em'. And he stored them all over southern california, including in chicken coops...

When he shut down his store in the late 90's, he left the front door unlocked...with probably half a million records sitting there. He attepted to store what he felt were the better records, and was having a friend sell those, which were pretty picked over by then. But the discs still in the shop eventually wound up back in Los Angeles at the former location of Rene's all ears record store while it was between renters...All for 50 cents a record. 100+ count boxes of then worthless records including Lori Hamton, VIP demos of Bobby Taylor, Kim Tamango, etc. I bought 5000 45s there.

And the chicken coop records wound up in a local record store near Magic Mountain where Nancy soultastic (who swore 100 times shw wasnt a dealer...real funny) and Barry Wickham got the best.

And yes, he was found dead in a storage unit...

If someone is motivated, google image search "midnight in a perfect world" 12" cover art by dj Shadow and B+....That is Hilliard's photo in his store back then.

Regarding the Ray Agee 45, when I told John Tefteller what I paid for my soultown 45, he raised the pitch in his voice and said he walked across a bunch spilled across the floor at a black music distibutors in the late 70's...

I bumped into a few of 'em back in '76 and can clearly remember wishing it was 'good' back then LOL. I have a feeling that I found it once with Soussan and he said it was 'repetitive garbage' and, more fool me, I took his word for it. This is the pinkish Soultown label right? It just wasn't on the radar back then - in fact no Ray Agee records were at that point. No doubt some of the copies I left have been picked up since. I remember finding a 100 count box of 'em in a garage in L.A. and cursing that it wasn't the Trips or the Sweets!

I bet it's slow though isn't it? Anyone got a clip?

Ian D

Got it's first outings c/u as Jimmy Conwell "Love is a Losing Game" via Dave Raistrick '78/79.

Got it's first outings c/u as Jimmy Conwell "Love is a Losing Game" via Dave Raistrick '78/79.

who played it at wigan if it was ever played there???

Looks like Dave will have played it.

Looks like Dave will have played it.

i missed late wigan years was dave r a regular casino dj ???,

Yes, always found him an absolute treat after Russ, Richard and Pat or Keith something obscure that you could track down for a few quid and monster rare cover-up's..

Whether or not I remember him playing the record I will never know.

Morning mate,

John Hilyard was perhaps the most interesting record man on th planet during the 70s & 80s and part of the 90s. As you say he found so many fabulous 45s. Unfortunately he died some years back, if anyone anywhere has a photo of this guy or the huge stock he had, post it up.. you'll see what I mean..

there was and never will be another John Hillyard.. and miss him and his vinyl. Which mysterious evaporated upon his death.. 100s of thousands of California 45s.. are missing somewhere... that would be a great find if his stock turned up again.

john

Hi John

Me and Rob first met him on a flea market in pasadena in the 80s, as we were searching thru some boxes, a voice said "you aint gonna find no stompers in there".

The voice belonged to a toothless, native Indian, looking chap, who turned out to be

Mr Hillyard.........I took a picture in disbelief!! will post it up when i find it.

Tats

i met John Hilyard in LA in 1987....i'd been given the address by Blondie......a quick phone call and we arranged a visit.....after a tortuous journey via 2 buses from Anaheim( the bus driver advised me not to get off at 5th and Olive- very hairy) i arrived to find a red indian sunning himself by the garage door...on entrance to the house i noticed the bath -well used and crawling (of which more later ) ...there were 45s everywhere...piles on the floor ....loads in racks...(he said.."John Anderson has been thru those"..)..he regaled me with stories about acquiring 45s / collectors/ LA soul....as i was riffling thru 45s.....i find a Sam Fletcher Tollie demo......"if ever Eddie Jefferson catches up with Soussan".......then two Orlons "Envy " issues..."Barry Waddington was one of the first UK collectors to contact me"....then a couple of Astors "Twilight Zone"...."ive had quite a few Danny Monday issues"......and so on.."make sure you get back before dark if your travelling by bus"...so i settled up using Amex Travellers cheques....which JH was very dubious about....but reluctantly accepted as he knew a Chinese guy who would change them......when i got back to the UK ...Tim Ashibende told me he slept overnight in that bath.....now THATS suffering for your art

Tim Ashibende told me he slept overnight in that bath.....now THATS suffering for your art

Jeez must've been a long bath?!

Anyhow, so, what about Ray's grinding slab of R'n'B/Northern on Krafton, 'Real, real love'?

I've had WDs, burgundy and lime-green label copies...the latter two are often spotted with smudged print (possible re-press?).

What's the going rate for this head-hammering slice o'soul at the moment?

its one hell of a fookin record...