Tommy & the Derby's - Don't Play The Role - Swing

I think this is one of the best finds in ages and now JM has come up with a vg+ copy on his auction although there's a fair bit of noise on it. However its not the grading I want to know about we can all decide that ourselves, its how rare is this i've never seen a copy and i've been collecting 25 yrs although ive known the tune only about a year. Is this a holy grail tune or just sitting dorment in peoples collections.

Any views and opinions appreciated.

Best Darren

Ok,

while you're "on a roll" why not give us a list of ten records which are as underexposed as Tommy & The Derbys that you would like to see on allnighter playlists.

It's very easy to be negative about records which are currently in vogue; maybe you can redress that with a more positive posting. You seem bullish about your own collection so I'd be interested to see a list of the kind of sounds you'd rather hear out at the moment.

This is like being back at school again [and i wasn't there that often ] i can understand now ,why the younger generation don't come into the scene there's to many anoraks about. That's my own personal opinion

Ok,

while you're "on a roll" why not give us a list of ten records which are as underexposed as Tommy & The Derbys that you would like to see on allnighter playlists.

It's very easy to be negative about records which are currently in vogue; maybe you can redress that with a more positive posting. You seem bullish about your own collection so I'd be interested to see a list of the kind of sounds you'd rather hear out at the moment.

1) 50% Wont Do - June Jackson (B side of 'Its whats underneath that counts')

2) Soul Communicaters - Those Lonely Nights

3) Bobby Bland - Shoes (TOP TUNE!!!)

4) The Elgins - Put yourself in my place

5) George Blackwell - Cant lose my head

6) Ace Spectrum - Dont send nobody else

7) So is the sun - World Column

8) Yvonne Vernee - Just like you did me

9) Alice Clarke - You hit me

10) My all time fave track...Frankie Valli and the four seasons - The Night

Sneer if you wish...they are all tunes I love...some might not be underpayed or particularly rare...but hey...im not anal

Edited July 2, 200816 yr by Beeks

This is like being back at school again [and i wasn't there that often ] i can understand now ,why the younger generation don't come into the scene there's to many anoraks about. That's my own personal opinion

I had an Anorak when I was six

This is like being back at school again [and i wasn't there that often ] i can understand now ,why the younger generation don't come into the scene there's to many anoraks about. That's my own personal opinion

How do you get that based on Gareths very reasonable response to the other guys comments.

However I could understand it at my comments, and to be honest if thats the impact of my comments, good, job done, if it keeps some quality control around things.

And whats your definition of an anorak, somebody who wants good quality music played and cares about keeping things progressive and challenging, (I was guilty as charged, now I am just a sad keyboard warrior that for some reason gets into debates with people who just don't get it) In my opinion it was these anoraks that kept a lot of people going when others were off doing something, sadly people like the dumbing it down now because (a) they can make some money off their local soul nights for local people with little effort around the music ( It allows them to be somebody with their local soul night.

Not for me, thank you very much.

10) My all time fave track...Frankie Valli and the four seasons - The Night

Sneer if you wish...they are all tunes I love...some might not be underpayed or particularly rare...but hey...im not anal

I must admit ...I noticed that you'd posted a stack of photos of yourself (just after joining recently) in the section where most people post up their soul event photos - and therefore I wondered if you'd be another young lad seeking attention and post things others would argue about.

However, after seeing a list of your favourite records - it's no wonder you don't like Tommy.

You're absolutely right though : we are all entitled to our opinions and soul "taste" is very subjective.

I wish every record I liked was disliked, coz I'm very fond of collecting spares

m

Touchy.

I think based on your not very succint response, this debate is over. However one final part, can I suggest you point out where I said I like rare records, I said I like quality records, the rarity was just an incidental part of the conversation, please stick to the facts.

My Amp Fiddler 12"'s are hardly rare but are my pride and joy. And as for sharing music, get over to RefoSoul you will see sharing is my passion, you might even add to the unbelievable wealth of knowledge you claim to have.

I suggest you and your baggy trousers come back and lets debate again in 2 years, if you still like Northern then that is, I won't hold my breath.

Edited July 3, 200816 yr by miff

Touchy.

I think based on your not very succint response, this debate is over. However one final part, can I suggest you point out where I said I like rare records, I said I like quality records, the rarity was just an incidental part of the conversation, please stick to the facts.

My Amp Fiddler 12"'s are hardly rare but are my pride and joy. And as for sharing music, get over to RefoSoul you will see sharing is my passion, you might even add to the unbelievable wealth of knowledge you claim to have.

I suggest you and your baggy trousers come back and lets debate again in 2 years, if you still like Northern then that is, I won't hold my breath.

HAHAHA The very fact you can be condescending to me without any knowledge of my musical history proves my point...because lets face it...ive only just got into northern soul when I joined here a couple of days ago and I bow to your infinate wisdom...I wasn't there you see...so what do I know eh? Unbelievable

1) 50% Wont Do - June Jackson (B side of 'Its whats underneath that counts')

2) Soul Communicaters - Those Lonely Nights

3) Bobby Bland - Shoes (TOP TUNE!!!)

4) The Elgins - Put yourself in my place

5) George Blackwell - Cant lose my head

6) Ace Spectrum - Dont send nobody else

7) So is the sun - World Column

8) Yvonne Vernee - Just like you did me

9) Alice Clarke - You hit me

10) My all time fave track...Frankie Valli and the four seasons - The Night

Sneer if you wish...they are all tunes I love...some might not be underpayed or particularly rare...but hey...im not anal

Great taste in oldies my play list from 1977 in a little club my mate Dobby ran and got me to DJ when it was quiet - eerrr most nights we opened Thursday Friday and Saturday by then we had knocked Sunday on the head.

Ok,

while you're "on a roll" why not give us a list of ten records which are as underexposed as Tommy & The Derbys that you would like to see on allnighter playlists.

Reading between the lines about your IMPO about this record.

It's very easy to be negative about records which are currently in vogue; maybe you can redress that with a more positive posting. You seem bullish about your own collection so I'd be interested to see a list of the kind of sounds you'd rather hear out at the moment.

Sorry to say but your right this time Mr X. This is the best dramatic Northern Soul record to come out since the Casino closed it was every thing you need, great build-up's to dramatic pauses, haunting backing vocals and a rememberable hook from the first play not many for the pound like this.

Edited July 3, 200816 yr by Prophonics 2029

Sorry to say but your right this time Mr X. This is the best dramatic Northern Soul record to come out since the Casino closed it was every thing you need, great build-up's to dramatic pauses, haunting backing vocals and a rememberable hook from the first play not many for the pound like this.

It might well be alot of peoples cup of tea...what I didnt expect is a personal attack on my good name because I deemed it bland...the reaction was a little over the top...might as well have called his mother a whore...its a good job I didnt say it was shit...there would be a rope going up over a tree as we speak

I'm always right Tony.

It might well be alot of peoples cup of tea...what I didnt expect is a personal attack on my good name because I deemed it bland...the reaction was a little over the top...might as well have called his mother a whore...its a good job I didnt say it was shit...there would be a rope going up over a tree as we speak

No mate your wrong its been up there for 3 hrs now.

Its from my tree as well.

I am getting so angry about people not liking this record its made me fart a lot and I have just shit my fur because of it GGGrrrr.

Edited July 3, 200816 yr by Prophonics 2029

Gents/ladies

This started out as a great thread then someone's got slaughtered 'cus they don't like a tune?

Love it myself but opinions are like arseholes, we all have one blah blah blah,

it's enough to stop people from postin'(and joinin') is that what you want?

chill, please?

keep smilin'

Gents/ladies

This started out as a great thread then someone's got slaughtered 'cus they don't like a tune?

Love it myself but opinions are like arseholes, we all have one blah blah blah,

it's enough to stop people from postin'(and joinin') is that what you want?

chill, please?

keep smilin'

Perspective...such a rare commodity...cheers Bill...but dont worry I give as good as I get...the record police dont scare me...im just here for a good time...but when someone questions my taste...its a red rag to a bull haha...im gonna stop posting on this thread now because ill just add fuel to the fire and to be honest I can't be arsed arguing the toss anymore

Interesting to see everyone blathering on and as usual nobody'l probably read my reply cos i'm in the States so about 4 light years late (usually). Obviously first time ive heard it, and Chalky and Russ usually have good taste. I like it, i'd like to hear it in a venue with a bit of atmos and context. i think that's important. It's like the old tale of someone buying a choon after they've heard it at a venue, get it home, play it, and it's no where near as good. I think this might be one of those types of choons. Not sure if i'd pay that much for it, but let me hear it at a venue when i'm messing about on the floor and i might jolly well change my tune

DJ

You've forgotten more about music than Jock will ever know

Edited July 3, 200816 yr by miff

OK folks done a bit of deleting of posts as best as i can to keep this thread open, Can I remind folks on site policy and ask people to refrain from the use of foul language and the posting of unsutable images, not saying we should all agree with each other, but can we disagree without personal attacks on each others tastes or opinions

Thankyou

Gareth you need to give me lessons in being so succinct.

Aint no one on this planet could teach you to be succinct

One thing to bear in mind regarding Tommy & The Derbys: the soundclip on here is not the full record in its entirety. It's a looped version of the soundclip posted when Tim Brown was auctioning a copy, so it's half the record played twice, missing the second half of the record and the great Tommy Tate vocal as the record reaches a crescendo. Opinions based only on the refosoul post are based on incomplete evidence.

To me this 45 has all the hallmarks of a completely classic Northern Soul record and as a 'lost' recording of one of the greatest of all soul singers it's historically important too. The idea that it's too slow to play at allnighters staggers me. Dance records should always be more about feel and dynamics rather than strict tempo-counting or beats-per-minute considerations.

I realise that it's impossible (and indeed undesirable) for everyone to like the same music, but I think some of the negative opinions above are more about an aversion to expensive records full-stop rather than this particular 45. People seem to be more scathing in their opinion of records beyond the reach of their own pockets for some complex reason. Had this Tommy Tate recording made it onto one of his Okeh or Musicor singles and been available to buy for under £100 I don't think it would engender anything like the same antagonism.

There seems to be a prevailing mood amongst some of sneering (to borrow a phrase from the postings above) at those collectors who would pay several thousand pounds for a record. This is misplaced in my opinion as without those willing to do so the scene might as well forgo any pretense of being in any way relevant or progressive. If the top-end collectors were to leave the allnighter scene and collect 'in private' as it were, then the scene in its original spirit really would be finished.

One thing to bear in mind regarding Tommy & The Derbys: the soundclip on here is not the full record in its entirety. It's a looped version of the soundclip posted when Tim Brown was auctioning a copy, so it's half the record played twice, missing the second half of the record and the great Tommy Tate vocal as the record reaches a crescendo. Opinions based only on the refosoul post are based on incomplete evidence.

To me this 45 has all the hallmarks of a completely classic Northern Soul record and as a 'lost' recording of one of the greatest of all soul singers it's historically important too. The idea that it's too slow to play at allnighters staggers me. Dance records should always be more about feel and dynamics rather than strict tempo-counting or beats-per-minute considerations.

I realise that it's impossible (and indeed undesirable) for everyone to like the same music, but I think some of the negative opinions above are more about an aversion to expensive records full-stop rather than this particular 45. People seem to be more scathing in their opinion of records beyond the reach of their own pockets for some complex reason. Had this Tommy Tate recording made it onto one of his Okeh or Musicor singles and been available to buy for under £100 I don't think it would engender anything like the same antagonism.

There seems to be a prevailing mood amongst some of sneering (to borrow a phrase from the postings above) at those collectors who would pay several thousand pounds for a record. This is misplaced in my opinion as without those willing to do so the scene might as well forgo any pretense of being in any way relevant or progressive. If the top-end collectors were to leave the allnighter scene and collect 'in private' as it were, then the scene in its original spirit really would be finished.

..............nuff said.

Russ

Interesting to see everyone blathering on and as usual nobody'l probably read my reply cos i'm in the States so about 4 light years late (usually). Obviously first time ive heard it, and Chalky and Russ usually have good taste. I like it, i'd like to hear it in a venue with a bit of atmos and context. i think that's important. It's like the old tale of someone buying a choon after they've heard it at a venue, get it home, play it, and it's no where near as good. I think this might be one of those types of choons. Not sure if i'd pay that much for it, but let me hear it at a venue when i'm messing about on the floor and i might jolly well change my tune

DJ

Hello Dave

Hope you are well mate.............this has been in my top five for years now, must be at the very least 5-6 years that Butch has been playing it. At the 100 Club, this has nearly reduced me to tears on occasions, such passion, Tommy Tate the legend, resounding around that hallowed ground, with the faithful in full swing & fine voice OMG it doesnt get much better.............Dave, Knowing what fine taste you have, I think if you heard the full unclipped version in context you would die mate............will we be seeing you in Spain BTW................I do hope so ...........Sun, Sangria & Soul my friend & together with the fine company, a heady cocktail.

Russ

If I had a quid for every "top-end collector" or dj who used to spend top dollar on 45s but have now disappeared I still wouldn't have enough for Tommy and Derbys but Im sure you get my drift.

Perfect 45 for now though I would have thought.

ROD

One thing to bear in mind regarding Tommy & The Derbys: the soundclip on here is not the full record in its entirety. It's a looped version of the soundclip posted when Tim Brown was auctioning a copy, so it's half the record played twice, missing the second half of the record and the great Tommy Tate vocal as the record reaches a crescendo. Opinions based only on the refosoul post are based on incomplete evidence.

To me this 45 has all the hallmarks of a completely classic Northern Soul record and as a 'lost' recording of one of the greatest of all soul singers it's historically important too. The idea that it's too slow to play at allnighters staggers me. Dance records should always be more about feel and dynamics rather than strict tempo-counting or beats-per-minute considerations.

I realise that it's impossible (and indeed undesirable) for everyone to like the same music, but I think some of the negative opinions above are more about an aversion to expensive records full-stop rather than this particular 45. People seem to be more scathing in their opinion of records beyond the reach of their own pockets for some complex reason. Had this Tommy Tate recording made it onto one of his Okeh or Musicor singles and been available to buy for under £100 I don't think it would engender anything like the same antagonism.

There seems to be a prevailing mood amongst some of sneering (to borrow a phrase from the postings above) at those collectors who would pay several thousand pounds for a record. This is misplaced in my opinion as without those willing to do so the scene might as well forgo any pretense of being in any way relevant or progressive. If the top-end collectors were to leave the allnighter scene and collect 'in private' as it were, then the scene in its original spirit really would be finished.

So true.

Edited July 4, 200816 yr by Tony Smith

Perfect 45 for now though I would have thought.

ROD

Come on Rod, you would've seen merit in it years ago, if you'd come across it.

There seems to be a prevailing mood amongst some of sneering (to borrow a phrase from the postings above) at those collectors who would pay several thousand pounds for a record.

....and it's also at least a thousand times better than Frankie Valli "The Night"

Hello Dave

Hope you are well mate.............this has been in my top five for years now, must be at the very least 5-6 years that Butch has been playing it. At the 100 Club, this has nearly reduced me to tears on occasions, such passion, Tommy Tate the legend, resounding around that hallowed ground, with the faithful in full swing & fine voice OMG it doesnt get much better.............Dave, Knowing what fine taste you have, I think if you heard the full unclipped version in context you would die mate............will we be seeing you in Spain BTW................I do hope so ...........Sun, Sangria & Soul my friend & together with the fine company, a heady cocktail.

Russ

I would be in tears Russ if i'd spent that sort of money out on it

....and it's also at least a thousand times better than Frankie Valli "The Night"

Anyone for a Tommy Tate thread ?

But maybe a Valli thread , was he in Grease the Movie ?

Edited July 5, 200816 yr by Simon M

Come on Rod, you would've seen merit in it years ago, if you'd come across it.

Yes I agree. When I say "now" I guess I mean it's a kinda Stafford sound which seems to be an accepted style today but actually it's no different to my ears than "Paris Blues" which was a Wigan sound. Faster tempo probably too.

I have no problem with the record at all and don't understand the "uptempo" allnighter crowd objections.

Maybe it wouldn't have fitted in at the Torch between Sweet Things and Triumphs but then there were a lot of midtempo 45s around in collections that had their day later.

On the Patti Austin thread someone raises the point that why do we have to always choose between records, in that this 45 is better than that 45, when in reality I've rarely heard a bad Northern 45 in nearly 40 years.

Unfortunately for "Beeker" Frankie Valli is one of those!!

ROD

There seems to be a prevailing mood amongst some of sneering (to borrow a phrase from the postings above) at those collectors who would pay several thousand pounds for a record. This is misplaced in my opinion as without those willing to do so the scene might as well forgo any pretense of being in any way relevant or progressive. If the top-end collectors were to leave the allnighter scene and collect 'in private' as it were, then the scene in its original spirit really would be finished.

Gareth; it's not often you're wrong, but you're right again.

Out of objection, i have decided not to shave until a copy of Tommy and the D's is in my hands.

we just put a copy up on eBay:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...E:IT&ih=012

will be interesting to see where it winds up...

we just put a copy up on eBay:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...E:IT&ih=012

will be interesting to see where it winds up...

We have seen it

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=79963

This is a thread for lovers of the record.

Sorry, should have taken a peak around before posting.

not trying to taint the thread - promise.

carry on!

Oops - and I forgot to mention that I included the entire song in the sound clip - since at one point it seemed the only clip available was looped...

If you haven't heard the whole thing it's definitely worth checking out - whether you are a potential bidder or just a lover of the record. Or both. Or neither.

I like the flip too.

Back to my hole!

Edited August 27, 200816 yr by gonerrecords