Being fixated on the topic of Gurus for reasons I won't go into at the moment. Just who are the Global top 10 Gurus of Northern/Rare soul?

Definition of Guru;

A teacher and guide in spiritual and philosophical matters.

A trusted counselor and adviser; a mentor.

A recognized leader in a field

An acknowledged and influential advocate, as of a movement or idea.

Here are my first pass nominations on this very hot, and potentially very controversial subject (partly due to the ego, and competitive nature of our scene, whether its in the arena of event promotion, collecting, dealing, writing or publishing. HERE GOs....

1. Tom Kline - (knowledge, literature and top collector)

2. Tim Brown - (consistent pursuit of soul collecting, publisher)

3. John Anderson (forgot more than most know)

4. John Manship (arguably the no. 1 dealer in the world)

5. Mark Dobson (AKA Butch - Nuff Said)

6. Martin Koppel (extensive knowledge and consistent source of soul 45s)

7. Jeff Beckman (Contribution to knowledge , literature and collecting)

8. Soul Sam (possibly the most consistent and open minded DJ ever)

9. Rod Dearlove ( knowledge of modern genres)

10. Dave Flynn ( the walking encyclopedia)

There you go any suggestions??? remember, if you're gonna evict anyone from the top 10, you must nominate someone else and have a good reason why.

LET THE WAR BEGIN!!!!!

Edited June 4, 200520 yr by Donkey

Have to agree with Andy Dyson (although we're never sober enough to get onto music when we talk), and how about....Andy Rix and Tim Ashbende????

DS

If we mention record dealers then what about Craig Moerer and Val Shivley ?

Hell i'm lost...........

and even forgot Greg Sourack (spelling) from New Jersey

DS

What about the artists themselves who have made significant impacts on the scene?

At the end of the day you can have the best DJ in the world, you can have the best supplier of records, you can have the most knowledgable folk on the scene but anything they do, have or know is pretty useless without the dancers and punters who pay there money week in week out to listen, dance and buy Northern Soul! 

link

...and without the artists, writers and producers of all the tracks that have had an impact on our scene there would be zilch.....

Have to agree with Andy Dyson (although we're never sober enough to get onto music when we talk), and how about....Andy Rix and Tim Ashbende????

DS

link

or Keith Woon?, always seems to win the cleethorpes quiz!,

second thoughts, he knows too much about modern!

What about the artists themselves who have made significant impacts on the scene?

link

Great minds again eh Gary...

Bit spooky that though...posted at the same time.....

Debate hotting up nicely, (said it would). Anyway, Pete Smiths made a fair point, its not about favorites and mates, its who fit the bill 'Global Rare Soul Guru'. The order of the 10 is not of signifigance at this stage, as we start eliminating in a day or two.

Anyway, herew are the current standings... (based on fair judgement and accord).

  Current table..

1.  Tom Kline - (knowledge, literature and top collector) 

2.  Tim Brown - (consistent pursuit of soul collecting, publisher)

3.  John Anderson (forgot more than most know)

4.  John Manship (arguably the no. 1 dealer in the world)

5.  Mark Dobson (AKA Butch - Nuff Said)

6.  Martin Koppel (extensive knowledge and consistent source of soul 45s) 

7.  Dave Flynn ( the walking encyclopedia)

8.  Adey Croasdall (opened more vaults than Oceans 11, 100 club and Kent CDs)

9.  Ian Levine (He can tell you what an artist was wearing, the day they recorded)

10. Simon Sousan (He should know, he pressed half of them)

Relegated:

(8.) Soul Sam (possibly the most consistent and open minded DJ ever)

(7.) Jeff Beckman (Contribution to knowledge , literature and collecting)

(9.) Rod Dearlove ( knowledge of modern genres)

On the Fringe:

Pat Brady ???  (ground breaking enough??)

Andy Dyson ???

Andy Rix ???

Japaneese candidates (any nominations???)

REMEMBER PEOPLE..... Keep it hot!!!!

Nominations close tomorrow, then ...EVICTIONS START!!!!!

link

A reshuffle and still no Dave Godin? Surely we don't need to say why! He ain't even on the fringe.

No E in Ady BTW.

Great minds again eh Gary...

Bit spooky that though...posted at the same time.....

link

I know, spooky man, who did you have in mind?

Was going to suggest Frank Wilson or even the Carstairs to get the ball rolling on that one.

Martin Koppel is a good choice, went to his record store in Toronto, signed the wall to.......

Tim Ashibende????

DS

link

Tim should hold 2 positions due to the height of the bugger!

I know, spooky man, who did you have in mind?

Was going to suggest Frank Wilson or even the Carstairs to get the ball rolling on that one.

link

Would have to throw Chuck Jackson and Van McCoy in meself

Would have to throw Chuck Jackson and Van McCoy in meself

link

Deffo Van McCoy.

the Carstairs

link

:graynone: (just before Pete gets in )

or Keith Woon?, always seems to win the cleethorpes quiz!,

second thoughts, he knows too much about modern!

link

Does he?

:graynone: (just before Pete gets in  )

link

Entirely coincedental i can assure you

Seriously though that record did have a major impact, like it or not.

Entirely coincedental i can assure you

Seriously though that record did have a major impact, like it or not.

link

So did The Futures (unfortunately)...but hardly Guru material Gaz...

So did The Futures (unfortunately)...but hardly Guru material Gaz...

link

No its not, quite right brother Mace

No its not, quite right brother Mace

link

Seriously guys not many people on here know me and to be honest I like it like that!

But come on this list is getting silly....Sousan???

Never did nothing to get knowledge unless it made him a buck.

The question was Top 10 Gurus Of Rare Soul and all or any of us can do is give a personell opinion and that means the way that these people have advised/taught/given knowledge, opinions (proven right), values (not cash) about different records.

This is a tough topic but just having come back to collecting again after a 13/14 year absence things have changed, this scene should be about music, records, love of music etc, not guru's. I think i know 90% of the people on that list and to be honest most are to humble to even want to be on it, well thats the guys with real knowledge anyways!!!

DS

What about the artists themselves who have made significant impacts on the scene?

link

then why not start a seperate thread about it up!!!!

This is a tough topic but just having come back to collecting again after a 13/14 year absence things have changed, this scene should be about music, records, love of music etc, not guru's. I think i know 90% of the people on that list and to be honest most are to humble to even want to be on it, well thats the guys with real knowledge anyways!!!

DS

link

Gotta agree here.

Although I respect a hell of a lot of people on this scene, I have never/will never hero worship any of them.

Think respect counts for a lot more anyway......

Seriously guys not many people on here know me and to be honest I like it like that!

But come on this list is getting silly....Sousan???

Never did nothing to get knowledge unless it made him a buck.

The question was Top 10 Gurus Of Rare Soul and all or any of us can do is give a personell opinion and that means the way that these people have advised/taught/given knowledge, opinions (proven right), values (not cash) about different records.

This is a tough topic but just having come back to collecting again after a 13/14 year absence things have changed, this scene should be about music, records, love of music etc, not guru's. I think i know 90% of the people on that list and to be honest most are to humble to even want to be on it, well thats the guys with real knowledge anyways!!!

DS

link

Good point and i think ultimately we all perhaps have our own personnal gurus, for example the guys who got me into this 20+ years ago at the school disco perhaps had ultimately the most telling influence on me as an individual, i.e. they got me into it and perhaps if i had not met them i would have missed out so in real terms they had more influence on a personal level then anone listed on this thread.

then why not start a seperate thread about it up!!!!

link

Sorry

SIMON SOUSSAN WORLD SOUL GURU?

hes in the wrong list he should be in WORLDS BIGGEST LIAR,THIEF,CHEAT,SCUMBAG

OR

THE MAN WHO RIPPED OFF THE MOST ARTISTS IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY IN THE WORLD

HEY! What about me? I can whistle Frank Wilson's "Do I love you" in C-minor!!

then why not start a seperate thread about it up!!!!

link

...but surely these have as much place (if not more) in this thread than Record dealers, promotors or DJs.

Agreed there are certain people on this scene who have an enviable amount of knowledge, and they should be well respected for such, but why should artists, writers and producers be excluded Mike?

Seriously guys not many people on here know me and to be honest I like it like that!

But come on this list is getting silly....Sousan???

Never did nothing to get knowledge unless it made him a buck.

The question was Top 10 Gurus Of Rare Soul and all or any of us can do is give a personell opinion and that means the way that these people have advised/taught/given knowledge, opinions (proven right), values (not cash) about different records.

This is a tough topic but just having come back to collecting again after a 13/14 year absence things have changed, this scene should be about music, records, love of music etc, not guru's. I think i know 90% of the people on that list and to be honest most are to humble to even want to be on it, well thats the guys with real knowledge anyways!!!

DS

link

I agree with ya Dave. With the exception of possibly one all the others wouldn't put themselves up there. They are like you, me and practically anyone else who goes to venues (or some that sit in their armchairs) in it for the love of the music....oh and a laugh

Edited June 4, 200520 yr by chalky

A reshuffle and still no Dave Godin?  Surely we don't need to say why!  He ain't even on the fringe.

No E in Ady BTW.

link

This is supposed to be about Northern Soul guru's and Dave Godin's era was in the late 60's early 70's, if you'd asked him for his top 10 Stafford sounds he'd have probably asked you what went on at Stafford.

Just because someone knows a few big words doesn't make them a GURU.

This is supposed to be about Northern Soul guru's and Dave Godin's era was in the late 60's early 70's, if you'd asked him for his top 10 Stafford sounds he'd have probably asked you what went on at Stafford.

Just because someone knows a few big words doesn't make them a GURU.

link

This is supposed to be about Northern Soul guru's and Dave Godin's era was in the late 60's early 70's, if you'd asked him for his top 10 Stafford sounds he'd have probably asked you what went on at Stafford.

Just because someone knows a few big words doesn't make them a GURU.

link

Catchy term. Who came up with that again?

Yer Andy Dyson should be in there,what about his mate Kev from Norwich,he's been on the phone since 1973 talking about record's and label's

Fucking hell that's gonna be some phone bill.

Roger

Fucking hell that's gonna be some phone bill.

Roger

link

This is supposed to be about Northern Soul guru's and Dave Godin's era was in the late 60's early 70's, if you'd asked him for his top 10 Stafford sounds he'd have probably asked you what went on at Stafford.

Just because someone knows a few big words doesn't make them a GURU.

link

Pete, to be honest I don't think Dave can be included in this topic, fortunetely for me I met him twice to talk to and his record knowledge was good (polite) but not up to these guys we have mentioned. Don't get me wrong I consider him an icon but not a guru I hope you follow that.......in my state it kinda makes sense

TEQUILLA........

DS

What about the artists themselves who have made significant impacts on the scene?

link

then why not start a seperate thread about it up!!!!

link

...but surely these have as much place (if not more) in this thread than Record dealers, promotors or DJs.

Agreed there are certain people on this scene who have an enviable amount of knowledge, and they should be well respected for such, but why should artists, writers and producers be excluded Mike?

link

excluded??

have you read whole thread mace ?

way i read it is thread started off as a sort of a light hearted big brother type rare soul guru type of thing

may be wrong, but thought idea was to nominate 10 people and then it gets whittled down

dunno why feel that it should turn into a nominating influential artists/writers/producers thread, but surely if wanna discuss such a worthwhile subject it be better to start up a new thread rather than hijacking a existing one ??

Don't know these dudes.  I recommend taking them out (not literally) and replacing them with Pat Brady (legendary collector/dealer/DJ). Also Ady Croasdell for his discoveries and bringing rare soul to the masses through his associations with Kent/Ace. Oh and as promoter of the longest running all nighter ever.

link

Was wondering when Mr Croasdell was gonna be nominated...here, here and all that......

Mark Bicknell.

excluded??

have you read whole thread mace ?

way i read it is thread started off as a sort of a light hearted big brother type rare soul guru type of thing

may be wrong, but thought idea was to nominate 10 people and then it gets whittled down

dunno why feel that it should turn into a nominating influential artists/writers/producers  thread, but surely if wanna discuss such a worthwhile subject it be better to start up  a new thread rather than hijacking a existing one ??

link

I did read whole thread Mike.

First post mentioned 'Global', as well as 'writing and publishing' which can surely be aimed at musical talent as well as the written word.

On that point I believe there are certain artists, writers or producers who deserve as much as if not more credit as a Guru on this scene than some promotors, DJs, record dealers etc.

No intention of hijacking thread, I believed point was valid.

However, rather than upset the apple cart I'll tow the line.

My choice then...

Carl Willingham - for expanding the bounderies of DJing whilst still knowing how to work the floor in a wide variety of venues.

Respect him loads, still don't worship him in any way though...and he wouldn't want anyone to....

I did read whole thread Mike.

First post mentioned 'Global', as well as 'writing and publishing' which can surely be aimed at musical talent as well as the written word.

On that point I believe there are certain artists, writers or producers who deserve as much as if not more credit as a Guru on this scene than some promotors, DJs, record dealers etc.

No intention of hijacking thread, I believed point was valid.

However, rather than upset the apple cart I'll tow the line.

My choice then...

Carl Willingham - for expanding the bounderies of DJing whilst still knowing how to work the floor in a wide variety of venues.

Respect him loads, still don't worship him in any way though...and he wouldn't want anyone to....

link

Following on in this vein then my nomination would be Andy Rix, local guy well respected on the scene and for similar reasons as expressed by Mace.

Edited June 4, 200520 yr by Gary

I did read whole thread Mike.

First post mentioned 'Global', as well as 'writing and publishing' which can surely be aimed at musical talent as well as the written word.

On that point I believe there are certain artists, writers or producers who deserve as much as if not more credit as a Guru on this scene than some promotors, DJs, record dealers etc.

No intention of hijacking thread, I believed point was valid.

However, rather than upset the apple cart I'll tow the line.

My choice then...

Carl Willingham - for expanding the bounderies of DJing whilst still knowing how to work the floor in a wide variety of venues.

Respect him loads, still don't worship him in any way though...and he wouldn't want anyone to....

link

sure all valid and worthwhile points, and sure many will agree as I do with them

and worthy of a mention

but as said think listing them be better suited to a new thread

Anyway Mace its no big thing

Who's gonna be your drop out of the 10 already nominated ??

This is supposed to be about Northern Soul guru's and Dave Godin's era was in the late 60's early 70's, if you'd asked him for his top 10 Stafford sounds he'd have probably asked you what went on at Stafford.

Just because someone knows a few big words doesn't make them a GURU.

link

Pete, to be honest I don't think Dave can be included in this topic, fortunetely for me I met him twice to talk to and his record knowledge was good (polite) but not up to these guys we have mentioned. Don't get me wrong I consider him an icon but not a guru I hope you follow that.......in my state it kinda makes sense

TEQUILLA........

DS

link

If DG's era was the late sixties/early seventies, then he should be first on the list. It was time spent at the Twisted Wheel that prompted Dave Godin to write about 'Northern Soul' for the first time in Blues & Soul. Soul City's output born in mind and he doesn't warrant a mention even on the subs bench?

Surely not to mention Dave Godin is tantamount to heresy, good God in heaven the man was and always will be a legend in any "Genre" of Soul circles, perhaps those who seek to disparage his contribution do this purely for "affected" reasons.

Brett Franklin

AFFECTED

[adjective] speaking or behaving in an artificial way to make an impression

Synonyms: unnatural

Edited June 4, 200520 yr by Brett

An acknowledged and influential advocate, as of a movement or idea

Pete Lawson for his absolute dedication to soul music and the niter scene

In the words of Thomas Jefferson:

"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock"

I came to the scene Post-Wigan, in the bad old days of the early to mid 80s, when the scene was on its uppers/"dying on it's arse", for want of a better term. My nominees are those that made a difference and stuck their neck(s) out, for no real reason other than their love of the music and I believe they truly moved things forward and contributed immeasurably to the scene we bitch about today. These nominees might be a little London-centric, however - but it's a subjective thing anyway, so what the hell!

Dave Thorley

Ian Clarke

Pete Lawson

Mr A Croasdell

Randy Cozens

We're never going to agree on a top ten. Surely out and out record dealers have no place - as they merely reflect opinion rather than inform it?

Edited June 5, 200520 yr by sweeney

To omit Dave G from the list is absurd really. Aside from simply imparting a few fancy words (words which probably wouldn't have been wasted on reviewing some of the shite that's spun today) he's responsible for taking rare soul to an entirely different plain.

In the UK in the early 60's, Motown WAS, for the most part, pretty rare in the UK. It was Dave who allowed us to sample its magic to the extent that we do here in 2005.

People seem to have some kind of fucking memory loss. When he passed away, a million and one people on this list barked on about how he was their 'guiding light'. Offering insights into those beautiful cuts in Blues and Soul every week/month to some spotty kid stuck out in County Durham.

And before anyone starts sprouting on about how that was all in the past and that he probably never even went to Stafford. I'm just curious if anyone else managed to take records by The Knight Brothers and Jaibi into the pop charts and the CD collections of builders and lawyers alike. Methinks not. There's only one other person I know who has had such a massive influence on the dissemination of soul into the real world. And you can't even spell his name right.

If we're gonna get down to the nitty gritty on this as it seems some people have, then the dictionary (behind it's Hindu connotations) cites a Guru as 'a teacher and especially intellectual guide in matters of fundamental concern'.

Dave was incredibly intelligent and, more than anyone, has guided EVERYONE in matters of Soul, our fundamental concern.

As much as I respect greatly a lot of people we've already listed, they simply mean f*** all to people who have had things like Will and Gareth shoved down their throats(sic). All you need to do is read the Amazon reviews for DST Vol 1 to get a perspective of the man's influence.

Until any other collector/dealer/anorak can claim to achieve the things that he did for soul, past present and future, common sense dictates he stays at number 1.

Relegate whoever you like.

Edited June 5, 200520 yr by mattbolton

1. David Godin

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

For ease of reference. Fill the other numbers as you see fit......

THE RARE SOUL SUPER "X FORCE"

I've read through this whole thread and have come to the conclusion that being the guru of soul can't fall on just one person. There are people on the list who have their reasons for being included. Godin and John Anderson are like forefathers, while others continue on to the future. Then there are other people who have their niches, like the modern guy in the UK or the soul harmony guy in the US, plus the other gurus of northern.

It would be great if all those people who are still around could get together and make the ultimate soul reference books. Then for pricing, get a consensus of ALL the top dealers, not just Tim Brown or just John Manship and better yet, the people that actually buy these records for even more unbiased opinions. (Nearly impossible though.)

Sorry for the tangent, but I think of it more like these guys are the X-Men and each one has a specialty (you all will probably name Manship or Levine as Magnito). People like Godin and Anderson are more like the ones who get the lifetime achievement awards. And by the way, Soussan has done nothing more than supply records for quick profit and rip off many people along the way. And also by the way, Shalamar made much better music after he was gone. He then had another go at it over here in the states with his low budget vanity press book that he called a price guide. Remember that? What a jerk. He took money from so many people and didn't deliver the products. As for landmark achievements on the northern scene-so what!. Give that credit to Frank Wilson instead of him. He sang the song. SS only wishes he could be on the list. He could name more enemies than titles of soul records.

Narrowing it down to one person is nearly impossible. You become a guru from absorbing knowledge from many others throughout your life. A guru doesn't have to be a DJ or a dealer to qualify, he could even be a punter with a vast amount of knowledge and passion for soul. But I guess being all or some of those things does bring the experience.

I respect a lot of people on that list for their love of soul and for their knowledge. I would love to learn more from any of these people. Some people that I know consider me a guru because of my 27 years experience. But I humbly refuse that title because it takes time, passion and dedication. I'm still learning and years from becoming a bona fide guru in my opinion. So much more to learn.

KTF

Jas

ps. It's Greg Surek. And he names off records I've never heard of on a regular basis. Don't know where he finds this stuff sometimes.

https://dogpatch.libsyn.com/surek

Just listened to John Kirby & Dante Carfagna’s latest Dogpatch podcast – the subject matter being Greg Surek’s record collection which, following his passing last year, has been acquired and is now being sold off. It is both a beautiful (for the music), and fascinating (for the insights) listen.

I’ll be honest I had not heard of Greg Surek, and I notice he has only two hits when you do a search on this site. But listening to Dogpatch’s homage it is clear that, at least to those that knew him, he was up there as one of the gurus of Rare Soul.

Interested to know if anybody on here (apart from Matt Weingarden, who Dante namechecks) was invited to the sale?

PS: Matt Weingarden – surely another of the top gurus of Rare Soul, he’s been doing his stuff at Downtown Soulville for over 30 years now.

1 hour ago, Candiman said:

https://dogpatch.libsyn.com/surek

Just listened to John Kirby & Dante Carfagna’s latest Dogpatch podcast – the subject matter being Greg Surek’s record collection which, following his passing last year, has been acquired and is now being sold off. It is both a beautiful (for the music), and fascinating (for the insights) listen.

I’ll be honest I had not heard of Greg Surek, and I notice he has only two hits when you do a search on this site. But listening to Dogpatch’s homage it is clear that, at least to those that knew him, he was up there as one of the gurus of Rare Soul.

Interested to know if anybody on here (apart from Matt Weingarden, who Dante namechecks) was invited to the sale?

PS: Matt Weingarden – surely another of the top gurus of Rare Soul, he’s been doing his stuff at Downtown Soulville for over 30 years now.

Max stack of shit... the chissler!!    with a control consol of sound effects behind it.. 

dudes filling lifetime 'Wop' grail holes!!! hilarious...