I know i don't want to start a big argument, but, can somebody tell me how Modern Soul got to be involved with the Northern scene.

You got out to a Northern Soul night, you pay your money for a Northern night, you sit down, buy a drink, have a chat and listen and dance to both classic, rare and more often than not middle of the road Northern, you know what I mean, In Orbit, House For Sale, etc , etc. Don't mind that too much as long as somebody is brave enough to play something rarer or less well known and then right in the middle of the night you are treated to a hour of 'Modern ' As far as I am concerned the two should never meet. let the modern guys organise their own nights. How many modern nights bang an hours rare northern, or any other northern for that matter, into a modern soul night? None I should think.

Keep `em apart `cause they don't meet, never have and never will.

Edited May 10, 200916 yr by bridget

Most so-called "modern soul" records are thirty years old now. And it's interesting to note that most "modern soul" records were actually ignored or overlooked when they were modern, i.e. when they were first released.

In contrast, ironically, many "northern soul" tracks were new or quite recent when they were first played on the scene.

I'd say that most "northern soul" fans in the early-to-mid 1970s were far less concerned about these things than some people are today. And I think that was a good thing.

There is often little musical difference between a late '60s track and an early '70s track, yet some people make such a big thing about "Sixties verses Seventies" as if they were worlds apart.

Variety is the spice of life.

Paul

Lets take a SS favourite Paul as an example - The Carstairs.Its a 73 release i think,but very obviously 70's.Played everywhere as a virtual new release,maybe a year old at most.Very different production and construction from most late 60's tracks.At the time accepted by the Northern scene.But is it too modern for some nowadays? .

There always seems to be the question of a trad nite being exposed to Modern when its not wanted.

Does this happen the other way round? At Modern nites do any dj's throw a curve ball in - Mel Torme,Dena Barnes,Lou Pride, for instance ,just to see how it goes down.?

Lets take a SS favourite Paul as an example - The Carstairs.Its a 73 release i think,but very obviously 70's.Played everywhere as a virtual new release,maybe a year old at most.Very different production and construction from most late 60's tracks.At the time accepted by the Northern scene.But is it too modern for some nowadays? .

There always seems to be the question of a trad nite being exposed to Modern when its not wanted.

Does this happen the other way round? At Modern nites do any dj's throw a curve ball in - Mel Torme,Dena Barnes,Lou Pride, for instance ,just to see how it goes down.?

You've clearly never heard a Gavin Page set , Gavin when you get to this ring me!!!!!!!!

There always seems to be the question of a trad nite being exposed to Modern when its not wanted.

Does this happen the other way round? At Modern nites do any dj's throw a curve ball in - Mel Torme,Dena Barnes,Lou Pride, for instance ,just to see how it goes down.?

Nah Kev. That Modern lot are worse than you lot!

Ian D

surely the term "modern soul" isn't chronological but rather a sound , thats why i mentioned semantics regarding new releases

......first time I've heard House For Sale called middle of the road Northern...so at least that was interesting...

Funny that ive always called it shite.

Lets take a SS favourite Paul as an example - The Carstairs.Its a 73 release i think,but very obviously 70's.Played everywhere as a virtual new release,maybe a year old at most.Very different production and construction from most late 60's tracks.At the time accepted by the Northern scene.But is it too modern for some nowadays? .

There always seems to be the question of a trad nite being exposed to Modern when its not wanted.

Does this happen the other way round? At Modern nites do any dj's throw a curve ball in - Mel Torme,Dena Barnes,Lou Pride, for instance ,just to see how it goes down.?

I think it unlikely those particular tunes would get played, but at the last couple of "modern" nights I have ben too (bear in mind I don't get out as much as I should these days) they have played records that were clearly recorded in the sixties, albeit more "crossover" than yer traditional "northern" (we do love these classifications don't we?) but they sounded very nice. My Modern playlist on the ipod is littered with sicties tunes that sound "right" because that's the point isn't it?

best,

RB

ps Should see you Friday @ the modern Room John, all being well!

surely the term "modern soul" isn't chronological but rather a sound , thats why i mentioned semantics regarding new releases

It's very confusing to me actually. Modern seems to have a zillion definitions these days. I'd class early to mid 70's Modern as Modern Oldies these days, late 70's and 80's releases as Modern and 90's and 00's as Contemporary personally........

But, hey. What the hell do I know........

Ian D

Lets take a SS favourite Paul as an example - The Carstairs.Its a 73 release i think,but very obviously 70's.Played everywhere as a virtual new release,maybe a year old at most.Very different production and construction from most late 60's tracks.At the time accepted by the Northern scene.But is it too modern for some nowadays? .

There always seems to be the question of a trad nite being exposed to Modern when its not wanted.

Does this happen the other way round? At Modern nites do any dj's throw a curve ball in - Mel Torme,Dena Barnes,Lou Pride, for instance ,just to see how it goes down.?

Fair point but the difference is actually musical, particularly the rhythm patterns, rather than anything else.

Many '60s tracks didn't have common four-beats-to-the-bar rhythm patterns, just as many '70s tracks didn't have syncopated rhythms and excessive hi-hats.

It goes to show that the "northern soul" and "modern soul" tags are both useless. They loosley describe a scene rather than a genre of music.

Paul

no surprises here but i agree that neither modern or R&B should be played at northern venues ...BUT ... i'm not entirely sure northern could survive without them , for me it's not a standalone genre anymore

Never has been.

What is Northern Soul ?.............answers on the back of a post card .

Russ

I always find these threads irresistable!

I started going to "northern" clubs in either December '71 or January '72, thereabouts. It wasn't even called "northern soul" then. Archie Bell's "Here I go again" was being played as a track off a new release import album.

By the time I was a regular at Wigan (early '74) I was dancing to things like the Salvadors etc which were often only 2 or 3 years old at the time. By the end of '74 things like Carstairs, Lou Edwards, Mel Britt etc were monsters, all, again only a couple of years old.

"Modern" has always been played if you take those tunes as a measure. I recall in the late seventies being bemused by people trying to 'stomp' to Todays People - though they clearly thought it was "northern" and were having an excellent time without worrying about when it was made.

And as a final point, I was at the first Nottm Palais Revival (oldies) alldayer in the late 80's, and I heard a couple of guys (who would have been the same sort of age I am now) in thier fifties, say "its not been the same since they stopped playing Howling Wolf"!

Dave Godin always said if we stop listening to new music we'll become the new "Teddy boys" - and how right he was, look at the trend for people to have made the clothes they wore 'back in the day' - bar towels etc.

So, as I, and many others, have said before, its not about the date on the label its what's in the grooves!

Best,

RB

Ab - so - f*ckin' - lutely.............when did people start getting sooooooooooooo sh*tty over the decade, if its soulful & has the x factor dance to it sucka !!!

Russ

Ab - so - f*ckin' - lutely.............when did people start getting sooooooooooooo sh*tty over the decade, if its soulful & has the x factor dance to it sucka !!!

Russ

Hate to be a party pooper but I don't buy into this theory...someone who is into Modern isn't necessarily going to like R&B and vice versa...which is understandable because lets face it they are miles apart musically

If you're theory is to be compared to other genres...it's like someone who is into soft rock liking thrash metal...same umbrella of 'Rock Music' but completely different in so many ways and generally never the twain shall meet

If a tune sounds not a million miles away from the Loveboat theme then its modern

If a tune chugs along like a runaway train then its northern

See simples

Just realised I,m spouting shit again Kings go Forth modern northern , I need a lie down my brain aches

Edited May 10, 200916 yr by Mark S

Hate to be a party pooper but I don't buy into this theory...someone who is into Modern isn't necessarily going to like R&B and vice versa...which is understandable because lets face it they are miles apart musically

If you're theory is to be compared to other genres...it's like someone who is into soft rock liking thrash metal...same umbrella of 'Rock Music' but completely different in so many ways and generally never the twain shall meet

Wow. Look at that? For once I actually agree with Beeks.

Ian D

If a tune sounds not a million miles away from the Loveboat theme then its modern

That's an unfair (but very funny) generalisation of "modern soul".

Some '70s soul and disco records were almost as bad as 'The Love Boat' theme but I hope most "modern soul" DJs have better taste than to play anything as tacky as that.

Unless I'm wrong, of course...

If a tune sounds not a million miles away from the Loveboat theme then its modern

The lyrics were great too...

"Love, exciting and new. Come aboard, we're expecting you... it's love, it's love, it's love... it's the Love Boat!!!"

They don't write them like that any more.

Hate to be a party pooper but I don't buy into this theory...someone who is into Modern isn't necessarily going to like R&B and vice versa...which is understandable because lets face it they are miles apart musically

If you're theory is to be compared to other genres...it's like someone who is into soft rock liking thrash metal...same umbrella of 'Rock Music' but completely different in so many ways and generally never the twain shall meet

My answer to the original post is DEMAND. 'Modern' got involved in the northern scene because paying punters like me and all my friends LOVE it just as much as our northern, and we travel, dance, and buy lots of drinks in loads of venues across the UK and Europe. In our minds there's no disharmony between the two, just synergy.

And Beeks you're both right and wrong, lots of my mates don't like R&B, but lots of them do, and I've got absolutely no problem with an across the board northern venue like Rugby having a bit of everything. My husband will be up for all the R&B and the stompers, I'll be up for all of the modern, and we'll both dance to a bit of everything in between. As will Mr Vickers above, one of the original open-minded cross-genre promoters.

It beats me why some people spend so much of their time actively HATING other genres of soul. If you don't like across the board policies, go somewhere else. We're spoilt for choice with the number of nights operating. What's the big problem? Peace be with you

I know i don't want to start a big argument, but, can somebody tell me how Modern Soul got to be involved with the Northern scene.

You got out to a Northern Soul night, you pay your money for a Northern night, you sit down, buy a drink, have a chat and listen and dance to both classic, rare and more often than not middle of the road Northern, you know what I mean, In Orbit, House For Sale, etc , etc. Don't mind that too much as long as somebody is brave enough to play something rarer or less well known and then right in the middle of the night you are treated to a hour of 'Modern ' As far as I am concerned the two should never meet. let the modern guys organise their own nights. How many modern nights bang an hours rare northern, or any other northern for that matter, into a modern soul night? None I should think.

Keep `em apart `cause they don't meet, never have and never will.

I'm on your side! Nothing bugs me more at a venue when there IS a modern room (each to their own but most definitely not MY bag) and the d.j's start playing it in the main room.....aggggggggggh!

Your R&B DJ

Your 60's Soul DJ

Your Crossover DJ

Your Modern DJ

I knew there was a reason I'm a HUGE R n B (eard) fan! Thanks daaaahlin x

Your R&B DJ

So R&B DJ's look like Brad Pitt then Beeks

Now at least I know where Pikeys Dog gets his username from

Sorry Joe but couldn't resist it mate

So R&B DJ's look like Brad Pitt then Beeks

Now at least I know where Pikeys Dog gets his username from

Sorry Joe but couldn't resist it mate

Hahaha that's such a tenuous link Cunnie...for a start the first picture was Johnny Depp!!...all that hard work just for a dig at poor Joe

Hahaha that's such a tenuous link Cunnie...for a start the first picture was Johnny Depp!!...all that hard work just for a dig at poor Joe

Was it Johnny Depp? Oops! Shows how often I go to the flicks.

Still leaving the dig at Joe "Disco" Dutton though, bet you've never heard him do a 70's set. You'd be surprised

Still leaving the dig at Joe "Disco" Dutton though, bet you've never heard him do a 70's set. You'd be surprised

Nah Kev. That Modern lot are worse than you lot!

Ian D

What DO you mean? "You lot" .I hope you're not suggesting i dress up at weekends.

"I wouldn't be a member of any genre......if they wanted me as a member" .(not quite the "original" quote).

............But would Northern get played in The Modern Room??!!

Probably not no!.....which is my point EXACTLY......if there are two rooms for the two genres,then stick to that policy!(I know I'm not the only one who gets infuriated by this by the way,regardless of my personal musical tastes!)

Edited May 11, 200916 yr by Delasoul

Why do people refer to Modern Soul as Disco when Northern Soul is 60's Disco as well??

It's all Soulful Dance Music to me whether it be 60's,70's,80's,90's or This century!!!

Soul is Soul......End of!!!

But it's not all Northern Soul, that's the point.

Beeks made a good point about comparing it with rock music. I love punk but can't stand heavy metal.

Why do I have to like Northern AND Modern when they are two worlds apart?

I f*cking hate it when people say you should love all soul music, it's utter b*llocks. Does that mean we have to like this crap served up in the charts as R&B as well?

I don't like all soul music...I don't like most of the really modern stuff (with some exceptions) and I'm not awfully keen on the very early R&Bthat borders on rock and Roll. But I like most stuff in between...I think that if a venue is advertised as across the board you should expect some "modern" but how that modern is depends on who the punters are and whether there is a separate modern room. For example, I wouldn't expect to go to Prestwich and hear Y2K stuff in the main room, but on the other hand I wouldn't want to hear R&b in the main room at Middleton.

At the end of the day, there's loads of venues, if it's only a couple of tracks in a night that don't suit your personal taste, it's not bad going really. I can count on one hand the number of venues that would suit my taste 100% , but I'd never go anywhere if I just went to them....

Probably not no!.....which is my point EXACTLY......if there are two rooms for the two genres,then stick to that policy!(I know I'm not the only one who gets infuriated by this by the way,regardless of my personal musical tastes!)

but we aren't talking about a two room venue are we? and "Modern" soul has always been played at Northern venues.

Most venues advertise as "Across the board" these days even when they clearly don't play across the board, so should modern not be played at these? If an event played something that was advertised then maybe some have the right to complain but as modern soul is part of the northern scene and has been for years, for example Wigan and many nighters in the 80's (many of which had at least one Modern DJ on), and more laterly venues that play and class the likes of Angie Stone and Drizabone etc as modern and so gives them the right to class their venue as across the board so how do you say what is allowed and what isn't?

What p*sses me off is those who complain even though the venue advertises exactly what they play. Has anyone ever asked for their money back when they haven't got what they want?? Have they ever complained to the promoter(s)? Doubt it very much, they would sooner come on here and have a good whinge

You don't have to like it all,everyone is different and have differerent perspectives

But you said above that we did have to like it all, because it's all soul music

Does that mean we have to like this crap served up in the charts as R&B as well?

No. Simply because it's not soul music.

Funnily enough, I find myself agreeing with this standpoint, a bit of a change I know, but it's right, if I went to a 'modern' event of my choice and a DJ started playing 60s Detroit for example then I wouldn't be too chuffed. It doesn't mean I think 60s Detroit is shit, some of it's quite good, but I wouldn't pay money to go somewhere to hear it, so I can understand what's being said.

We live and learn eh?

But it's not all Northern Soul, that's the point.

Beeks made a good point about comparing it with rock music. I love punk but can't stand heavy metal.

Why do I have to like Northern AND Modern when they are two worlds apart?

I f*cking hate it when people say you should love all soul music, it's utter b*llocks. Does that mean we have to like this crap served up in the charts as R&B as well?

Good point Pete. Reggae scene's the same as well. Just compare some of the Ska stuff you like to some of the current Dancehall stuff that gets played now - poles apart.

Thing is with the Northern & Modern scene's there's a sticky middle ground.

Take for example something like Benny Troy - I Wanna Give You Tomorrow.

To the die hard Northern punter it's classed as Modern but to the Modern punter it's classed as Northern (cue some pond life saying it's Disco sh1te ).

Good point Pete. Reggae scene's the same as well. Just compare some of the Ska stuff you like to some of the current Dancehall stuff that gets played now - poles apart.

Thing is with the Northern & Modern scene's there's a sticky middle ground.

Take for example something like Benny Troy - I Wanna Give You Tomorrow.

To the die hard Northern punter it's classed as Modern but to the Modern punter it's classed as Northern (cue some pond life saying it's Disco sh1te ).

I absolutely love 60's Jamaican music, I can't stand any of it after that though (apart from dub), the sound is so dissimilar to what went before it that I can't make the connection and it means nothing to me - why would I identify with wanting to overthrow babylon for a start?

p.s. benny troy is disco

I absolutely love 60's Jamaican music, I can't stand any of it after that though (apart from dub), the sound is so dissimilar to what went before it that I can't make the connection and it means nothing to me - why would I identify with wanting to overthrow babylon for a start?

p.s. benny troy is disco

I knew you'd say that & I agree with you

what is this venue that played an hour of modern when it shouldn't have? If there isn't one then why we having this debate? C'mon Cris you must have suffered for an hour to make such a post?

Benny Troy - I Wanna Give You Tomorrow.

I don't care what it's classed as...Oh how I loathe that record

I know i don't want to start a big argument, but, can somebody tell me how Modern Soul got to be involved with the Northern scene.

You got out to a Northern Soul night, you pay your money for a Northern night, you sit down, buy a drink, have a chat and listen and dance to both classic, rare and more often than not middle of the road Northern, you know what I mean, In Orbit, House For Sale, etc , etc. Don't mind that too much as long as somebody is brave enough to play something rarer or less well known and then right in the middle of the night you are treated to a hour of 'Modern ' As far as I am concerned the two should never meet. let the modern guys organise their own nights. How many modern nights bang an hours rare northern, or any other northern for that matter, into a modern soul night? None I should think.

Keep `em apart `cause they don't meet, never have and never will.

How did the two get 'involved'? Maybe partly because artists who recorded in the 60s continued to record in the 70s, 80s and onwards?

Just don't go back to the venues where you've heard that happen if it's such a big problem for you. Plenty of people feel that they do meet, but if you don't I'm sure there are plenty of nights that don't play any Modern at all. And if you do go to a night like that and it puts you off, you could always comment in Lookbacks on here...

if its an across the board night then expect to hear modern

even funk is getting played at atb events now

if its good its good if it aint your deaf

Good point Pete. Reggae scene's the same as well. Just compare some of the Ska stuff you like to some of the current Dancehall stuff that gets played now - poles apart.

Thing is with the Northern & Modern scene's there's a sticky middle ground.

Take for example something like Benny Troy - I Wanna Give You Tomorrow.

To the die hard Northern punter it's classed as Modern but to the Modern punter it's classed as Northern (cue some pond life saying it's Disco sh1te ).

These days most Modern venues now advertise as "70's to Y2K".... so that's saying Modern venues "pick" which 70's and Xover tunes are Modern and which are Northern....

Personally not sure how opening up a playlist backwards to include 30+ year old tunes (70's and Xover) can still be classed as a Modern nite in the true sense.... seems this advertising practice came about when most Modern fans were saying good new releases where not being produced as often as once was....

So with this both sides will always meet....

It's all opinions of course ....

Oh, and I'm not including that boom boom house stuff in this which the Modern boys just pinched from today's kids ....

Edited May 11, 200916 yr by vaultofsouler

what is this venue that played an hour of modern when it shouldn't have? If there isn't one then why we having this debate? C'mon Cris you must have suffered for an hour to make such a post?

There isnt Chalky

Its just a Scenario, he's got a new handle Chris53

Best

Paul

what is this venue that played an hour of modern when it shouldn't have? If there isn't one then why we having this debate? C'mon Cris you must have suffered for an hour to make such a post?

Exactly Chalky

this whole thread is based on not knowing the venue policy.

I like some of the modern stuff, in fact i like some of all the above mentioned (unless it is real discofied ). that being the case i would except whatever is being played at an ATB event.

the original post makes it sound like it was advertised as 'Northern Soul', in which case i would be a little miffed to hear an hours worth of disco oops! i mean modern.

These days most Modern venues now advertise as "70's to Y2K".... so that's saying Modern venues "pick" which 70's and Xover tunes are Modern and which are Northern....

Personally not sure how opening up a playlist backwards to include 30+ year old tunes (70's and Xover) can still be classed as a Modern nite in the true sense.... seems this advertising practice came about when most Modern fans were saying good new releases where not being produced as often as once was....

So with this both sides will always meet....

It's all opinions of course ....

Oh, and I'm not including that boom boom house stuff in this which the Modern boys just pinched from today's kids ....

Post 4 on here Mark, you'll love it

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/House-Music-Soul-t101514.html

Post 4 on here Mark, you'll love it

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/House-Music-Soul-t101514.html

'Tis funny that reply of yours Mart....

Kinda knew you would reply to my edit in at the end of the post ....

Edited May 11, 200916 yr by vaultofsouler

Post 4 on here Mark, you'll love it

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/House-Music-Soul-t101514.html

just had a little listen to the mix - its quite nice.

however, whatever you want to call it, it is music that can be heard at your local nightclub or radio station.

I don't care what it's classed as...Oh how I loathe that record

Separated at birth,me and you Beeks. .Cunnie was half right in his earlier post - its sh*te in both camps. .

When Benny Troy gets played look for the guy with a face as long as an DFS sale......its me.

Edited May 11, 200916 yr by KevH

Separated at birth,me and you Beeks. .Cunnie was half right in his earlier post - its sh*te in both camps. .

When Benny Troy gets played look for the guy with a face as long as an DFS sale......its me.

I don't care what it's classed as...Oh how I loathe that record

Benny Toy might want to give me tomorrow................................. I want to give him a slap !!

I'm confused now, wasn't it all produced to be played in a dance hall/Discoteque type situation. I was aware that in the 70's there was a commercial gendre for the disco sound which I missed as in the later years of the decade I was in the Jazz/funk room but I swear I haven't heard 'Dance yourself dizzy, D.I.S.C.O or I'm in the mood for dancing' played out for years. maybe I'm going to the wrong venues.

the way the scene is going it shouldn't be too long before you'll get to hear them at all the best 'progressive' venues

I,ve always loved soul music it just so happens that the Northern Soul scene gave me the best opportunity to experience a wider choice of soul. In my opinion modern and Northern compliment each other the problem is people pigeon hole stuff, R & B, Modern, X over etc etc I prefer to call it all soul.

But each to their own

Benny Toy might want to give me tomorrow................................. I want to give him a slap !!

Did you know that Duffs from Morecambe is actually his son?

So can't we just leave it at that? If you're going somewhere where you're not sure of the policy or what one of the DJ's plays, and the possibility of a few modern tracks (whatever your interpretation of that term) might spoil your snivelling, whining, miserable, godforsaken lives, then just ask on here beforehand, or even, shock horror, phone the promoter and ask them to talk you through the expected proceedings for the night.

But I guess that would mean you couldn't argue ad nauseam for several more thousand posts

And if we're forming a hit squad to take out Benny Troy, count me in It's mainly his hair that vexes me.

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So can't we just leave it at that? If you're going somewhere where you're not sure of the policy or what one of the DJ's plays, and the possibility of a few modern tracks (whatever your interpretation of that term) might spoil your snivelling, whining, miserable, godforsaken lives, then just ask on here beforehand, or even, shock horror, phone the promoter and ask them to talk you through the expected proceedings for the night.

But I guess that would mean you couldn't argue ad nauseam for several more thousand posts

And if we're forming a hit squad to take out Benny Troy, count me in It's mainly his hair that vexes me.

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