It's a question I'm curious about.

I think the general concensus on here, is that generally the most-rated DJ's on the Northern Soul scene are the guys that play authentic original copies of highly rare records, both known and unknown. This applies to both current rare and popular oldies DJ's - in other words, right across the spectrum of the whole scene.

So, accepting the philosophy that in order to become a top Northern Soul DJ these days in pretty much all areas of the scene, one needs to have a large box full of rare originals worth tens of thousands of pounds, then doesn't that suggest that the scene is pre-disposed to those with a huge amount of disposable income?

I'm long, long gone from the cutting edge of rare record collecting these days but I keep an eye on things and occasionally get lucky every so often, so obviously I keep an eye on current prices and generally end up weeping LOL.

If I were to re-create the same 200 count box that cost me less than £300 in 1975, it would cost me a minimum of £30K now and probably nearer £50K. If I , included my overall collection at the time into the equation, then we'd be talking circa £200K at todays prices (mainly 'cos I had all the 70's stuff that's now off the scale).

So obviously I've thought about this and figured out that there's a massive amount of difference between the passionate Northern Soul DJ's of the 1970's and the passionate Northern Soul DJ's of today.

Without a doubt, I personally 100% rode the route of enjoying and playing super-rare records that no one else had, and naturally, a certain amount of ego was involved. But records were relatively cheap back then and most aspiring DJ's were beavering away getting their own choices together well within most people's disposable income levels. So the path towards becoming a popular Northern Soul DJ back then somehow seemed a bit more organic in that virtually anyone could get within reach of the top guys providing they had the right taste and made smart buying choices. It didn't really start becoming a money-lead thing until '75/'76 in my view. In fact, when it started going that route, I got the hell out of dodge and started looking for records at the source. The economics made a bit more sense.

So I guess the question is: do you need a £50K collection of originals to even get into the top-strata these days?

And, as a result, has Northern Soul become a rich man's sport?

Ian D

play it from the heart, not from the wallet

play it from the heart, not from the wallet

You tell em George ...

Yes i am of the belief that cash alone says who is on the big stage of northern soul on a regular basis.. For now....

Thank god there is a world away from the big stage, the place i have found so many lovers and players of soul music in all its forms from big ticket items to vinyl the price of a fish supper..

A top northern soul dj to me had cudos and near celebrity status for many when we were all young soulies, as we have all mature and find our own sound the big stage can appear as nothing short of a pantomine at times for some folk...

Good topic Ian

Ok lets say you want to DJ at the best Northern events in the uk . I'd say you would need 25

Top og records for your box... amongst the cheap available ones you have amassed already

Can I ask garethx to list down these 25 wants/needs ( as I know him and sort of trust him ) and then we can go about Pricing them . Let's do a Man City

:thumbsup:

Simon

Wouldn't it be interesting if someone like Butch, who probably has the widest choice of super-rarities at his disposal, suddenly decided to play a 2 hour set of records that anyone could buy on a normal budget? Butch could get away with doing that because everybody respects his taste and knows that he has multiple mega-rarities at his disposal anyway.

So let's hypothetically say, that a promoter would book Butch on the basis of his reputation and his box of to-die-for rarities, expecting to attract an audience based on Butch's incredible records.

So if Butch then turned up and did a mind-numbingly brilliant floor-filling set of £10 cheapies only, would anyone feel shortchanged or would the promoter feel miffed that Butch didn't roll out the one-offs?

Questions, questions.........

Ian D

I could understand people feeling short changed if they got something they didn't expect (Lord save us from that ever happening).... but I would pay good money to hear Butch play a set of cheapies that were a reflection of his own taste.

Can't say the same for many of the other household names though........

Do you have enough money to become a top northern DJ ?

NO ! nor do I have the inclination.But enjoyed reading the thread thanks

Edited July 9, 201113 yr by smudger

I could understand people feeling short changed if they got something they didn't expect (Lord save us from that ever happening).... but I would pay good money to hear Butch play a set of cheapies that were a reflection of his own taste.

Can't say the same for many of the other household names though........

Maybe we're at a point in the evolvement of the scene where the top DJ's should offer a choice in terms of the type of set they are booked to play?

For instance, had I won that bloody Euromillions lottery last night and gone on the ultimate buying spree I'd probably produce an A4 piece of paper with loads of boxes in there and promoters would then be able to tick the boxes that they wanted for the gig.

For instance, in terms of percentage of a 2 hour set, it could look something like this:-

Box 1 : 25% or half an hour of £2K+ big ticket monsters

Box 7: 10% or 12 minutes of exclusive unknowns

Box 15: 25% or half an hour of established biggies

Box 22: 5% or 6 minutes of exclusive acetates

Box 32: 15% or 18 minutes of big ticket oldies

Box 38: 5% or 6 minutes of exclusive cover-ups

Box 42: 15% or 18 minutes of cheap as chips less than a tenner goodies

Job done. It's called consumer choice.

You could even charge a premium for genuine one-offs on the basis that every time you play a one-off it deteriorates in value massively. Sort of, "sorry mate. If you want me to play Junior McCants that'll be another £50 due to depreciation......"

Ian D

Edited July 9, 201113 yr by Ian Dewhirst

I could understand people feeling short changed if they got something they didn't expect (Lord save us from that ever happening).... but I would pay good money to hear Butch play a set of cheapies that were a reflection of his own taste.

Can't say the same for many of the other household names though........

Des Parker every now and then plays a cheapie set and by the end of his set he has nigh on sold them all

Des Parker every now and then plays a cheapie set and by the end of his set he has nigh on sold them all

That's a nifty game-plan.

Ian D

But there's a wealth of difference between someone who merely plays records and a professional DJ who knows what he or she is doing IMO.

I've seen the best DJ's in the world over the last 40 years and the top ones basically play what they want to an adoring audience whlst adding a bit of pzazz to the experience. That's why they're great. We shouldn't get blind-sided by rarity for rarity's sake. A great DJ plays what he or she wants but delivers it with passion and style.

But it probably helps if you have a 50K back-up of killer originals......

But how many of us have £50K spare for back-ups then?

Ian D

that just about sums it up for me too Ian and no i dont have 50k as back up but if anyone wants to sponsor me im sure i can accomodate say your name or business name on me shirt and on every flyer i could put the sponsor in brackets (Bearsy sponsored by Ian D creator of fine SS threads) next to my name

it does not have to be for the full amount but the smaller the amount the smaller the mention you get oh and if anyone wnats to donate records ie- Magnetics - Lady in Green, William Cummings - make my love a hurting thing or even the Parliaments - Rainy day, then i will always mention your name whilst introducing the record so you get all the credit and mention you in my playlist lookback, wow i can really see this as the way forward and before anyone gets any ideas ive patented it already

pm me for the small print and finer details

Yep, it's about time we started applying some financial science to this scene. I've just started a Northern Soul hedge fund to back aspiring entrepreneurs like yourself Bearsy. Wanna borrow £50K at 5% above base rate mate? You can use the records as collateral for further funding too.........

Ian D

I am a great DJ, now who will lend me some records

Sorry guys couldn't resist my attempt at humour..

Edited July 9, 201113 yr by jim g

Maybe we're at a point in the evolvement of the scene where the top DJ's should offer a choice in terms of the type of set they are booked to play?

For instance, had I won that bloody Euromillions lottery last night and gone on the ultimate buying spree I'd probably produce an A4 piece of paper with loads of boxes in there and promoters would then be able to tick the boxes that they wanted for the gig.

For instance, in terms of percentage of a 2 hour set, it could look something like this:-

Box 1 : 25% or half an hour of £2K+ big ticket monsters

Box 7: 10% or 12 minutes of exclusive unknowns

Box 15: 25% or half an hour of established biggies

Box 22: 5% or 6 minutes of exclusive acetates

Box 32: 15% or 18 minutes of big ticket oldies

Box 38: 5% or 6 minutes of exclusive cover-ups

Box 42: 15% or 18 minutes of cheap as chips less than a tenner goodies

Job done. It's called consumer choice.

You could even charge a premium for genuine one-offs on the basis that every time you play a one-off it deteriorates in value massively. Sort of, "sorry mate. If you want me to play Junior McCants that'll be another £50 due to depreciation......"

Ian D

I think you might be going stir-crazy sat at your p.c. pondering such like...

You really need to get out more Ian

Yep, it's about time we started applying some financial science to this scene. I've just started a Northern Soul hedge fund to back aspiring entrepreneurs like yourself Bearsy. Wanna borrow £50K at 5% above base rate mate? You can use the records as collateral for further funding too.........

Ian D

yes please Ian i need another holiday and have a few stitiches put in me arse

I am a great DJ, now who will lend me some records

Sorry guys couldn't resist my attempt at humour..

lending means you have to give them back Jim so just say gimmie gimmie gimmie

I think you might be going stir-crazy sat at your p.c. pondering such like...

You really need to get out more Ian

It was coming in totally blasted on Thursday that got this thread started Mace!

Ian D

yes please Ian i need another holiday and have a few stitiches put in me arse

:lol:

Your mouth's still OK though innit?

Ian D

Edited July 9, 201113 yr by Ian Dewhirst

Your mouth's still OK though innit?

Ian D

you would need a sewing machine to have any chance of stitiching my mooeee up

you would need a sewing machine to have any chance of stitiching my mooeee up

I'd use a staple-gun.

Might come in handy if you're still touting for some rough trade down at the docks y'know.........

Ian D

i get the impression by reading through these comments that quite a few of you are south of kettering, judging by the mention of butch and keb etc? so did any of you southern big money spenders frequent any of these venues? TORCH,CATACOOMBES,VA VA,S,MECCA,CLEETHORPES,WIGAN,WHITCHURCH,SAMANTHAS,WARINA,NOTTINGHAM PALAIS,ODD FELLOWS,CLIFTON HALL,QUEENS HALL,HINKLEY[sTAFFORD OLDIES ROOM]just out of curiosity?

I am a great DJ, now who will lend me some records

Sorry guys couldn't resist my attempt at humour..

Best post bar none ..if you ask me

Best post bar none ..if you ask me

I am great DJ who will lend me some carvers

i get the impression by reading through these comments that quite a few of you are south of kettering, judging by the mention of butch and keb etc? so did any of you southern big money spenders frequent any of these venues? TORCH,CATACOOMBES,VA VA,S,MECCA,CLEETHORPES,WIGAN,WHITCHURCH,SAMANTHAS,WARINA,NOTTINGHAM PALAIS,ODD FELLOWS,CLIFTON HALL,QUEENS HALL,HINKLEY[sTAFFORD OLDIES ROOM]just out of curiosity?

Don't get the connection re-Butch & south of Kettering ? Unless it's a 100 Club link possibly ?

He's from Penkhull , Stoke-on-Trent , a son of The Potteries , and definitely DJ's more upwards of Kettering than below it geographically speaking.

100 what ? wheres that never heard of it ? lol is that one of them tiny venues in london?

Ok lets say you want to DJ at the best Northern events in the uk . I'd say you would need 25

Top og records for your box... amongst the cheap available ones you have amassed already

Can I ask garethx to list down these 25 wants/needs ( as I know him and sort of trust him ) and then we can go about Pricing them . Let's do a Man City

Simon

Thanks for thinking of me Simon but I'm really in no position to make such a list. Family commitments and commercial considerations have meant that I've pretty much knocked going out on the head, certainly from a niter perspective. Lists like that also act as fodder to the lazy buggers who'd rather someone else do their legwork.

I have seen and heard a few sets in the last couple of years which have been inspirational, and I always make a point of thanking the people involved, which to me is important. Seeing as there really is no money whatsoever in soul scene deejaying these days it's only polite to thank people who have gone that extra mile to entertain you. Out of pocket expenses in terms of travel are usually met, but the cost of buying the actual records is in no way reflected in djing fees and hasn't been for a generation. Maybe something to consider if anyone grumbles about the cost of niter entrance and maybe the widest reason why the thing is perhaps starting to become completely unsustainable.

There are still good niters, but if the pre-eminent deejays are scaling down their commitments then it's actually quite a grave situation for the scene as a whole (if such a thing even exists these days). The scene needs them more than they need the scene: the serious undertone to what has been an entertaining topic. If the elder statesmen depart forever who coming up has the breadth and depth of collection or the necessary skills to replace them? That is knowledge and taste which will in all probability never be replaced. Searling bowed out at a time when there were hungrier, younger replacements to the deejay ranks. Could anyone be sure that is the case in 2011? Food for thought perhaps.

i get the impression by reading through these comments that quite a few of you are south of kettering, judging by the mention of butch and keb etc? so did any of you southern big money spenders frequent any of these venues? TORCH,CATACOOMBES,VA VA,S,MECCA,CLEETHORPES,WIGAN,WHITCHURCH,SAMANTHAS,WARINA,NOTTINGHAM PALAIS,ODD FELLOWS,CLIFTON HALL,QUEENS HALL,HINKLEY[sTAFFORD OLDIES ROOM]just out of curiosity?

never went to any of the above venues which in some ways is a shame but i was still in nappies but on the other hand its an advantage too cos im not stuck in a time warp of what was played by who and where, i just buy what i like no matter what genre or cost wether it be a £1 tune or something i have to sell me arse for and i couldnt give a shit what people say i spend my money how and when i want, i dont earn much about £19k a year so not minted but just careful, i live for today and look back on yesteryear as an experience, tooo many people live in the past and wont look into the future so i do what i do when i want to and just enjoy whats right fopr today

was any of them venues any good i hear they play soul music oop norf

Don't get the connection re-Butch & south of Kettering ?  Unless it's a 100 Club link possibly ?

He's from Penkhull , Stoke-on-Trent , a son of The Potteries , and definitely DJ's more upwards of Kettering than below it geographically speaking.

i get the impression by reading through these comments that quite a few of you are south of kettering, judging by the mention of butch and keb etc? so did any of you southern big money spenders frequent any of these venues? TORCH,CATACOOMBES,VA VA,S,MECCA,CLEETHORPES,WIGAN,WHITCHURCH,SAMANTHAS,WARINA,NOTTINGHAM PALAIS,ODD FELLOWS,CLIFTON HALL,QUEENS HALL,HINKLEY[sTAFFORD OLDIES ROOM]just out of curiosity?

............... im from gloucester......................i have no money....................i went to the cats and the torch, wigan a few times and other venues.........then stopped going soulin for 25 years.............so the place where i live and where i went to when the world and my life was a differant place is not at all relevant............. ez . i do recall spending all my weeks wages on 1 record when i was 17 tho, so i must be a big spender i spose.....

is that youre good self miss jo wallace? if so let me know ? ktf.

bearsy i gotta confess im on the wind up again just for the laugh ...but i,ll come clean got a couple of decent mates down south in paticular trickster who unfortunately is in hospital as we speak [trickster youre pals in nottingham wish you a speedy recovery] also been down several times now and although small venues great crowd,made to feel welcomed and loved it down there... right am busted so thats me day ruined ...ktf .

Thanks for thinking of me Simon but I'm really in no position to make such a list. Family commitments and commercial considerations have meant that I've pretty much knocked going out on the head, certainly from a niter perspective. Lists like that also act as fodder to the lazy buggers who'd rather someone else do their legwork.

I have seen and heard a few sets in the last couple of years which have been inspirational, and I always make a point of thanking the people involved, which to me is important. Seeing as there really is no money whatsoever in soul scene deejaying these days it's only polite to thank people who have gone that extra mile to entertain you. Out of pocket expenses in terms of travel are usually met, but the cost of buying the actual records is in no way reflected in djing fees and hasn't been for a generation. Maybe something to consider if anyone grumbles about the cost of niter entrance and maybe the widest reason why the thing is perhaps starting to become completely unsustainable.

There are still good niters, but if the pre-eminent deejays are scaling down their commitments then it's actually quite a grave situation for the scene as a whole (if such a thing even exists these days). The scene needs them more than they need the scene: the serious undertone to what has been an entertaining topic. If the elder statesmen depart forever who coming up has the breadth and depth of collection or the necessary skills to replace them? That is knowledge and taste which will in all probability never be replaced. Searling bowed out at a time when there were hungrier, younger replacements to the deejay ranks. Could anyone be sure that is the case in 2011? Food for thought perhaps.

Fair play Gareth . And yes your last comments are indeed food for thought . Then again , the oldies fans look like they can go on forever

is that youre good self miss jo wallace? if so let me know ? ktf.

Do you mean Bitchdj? - cos that isnt Jo Wallace.Get yourself onto Sales Tommo.Ive got a small batch of oldies you may be interested in.Cheap starters.Originals.

kev will have a look in a mo ? is any of you lot attending the alfreton all dayer this sunday or stoke nighter ? would love to meet you and have a chin wag .. ktf tommo.

never went to any of the above venues which in some ways is a shame but i was still in nappies but on the other hand its an advantage too cos im not stuck in a time warp of what was played by who and where, i just buy what i like no matter what genre or cost wether it be a £1 tune or something i have to sell me arse for and i couldnt give a shit what people say i spend my money how and when i want, i dont earn much about £19k a year so not minted but just careful, i live for today and look back on yesteryear as an experience, tooo many people live in the past and wont look into the future so i do what i do when i want to and just enjoy whats right fopr today

was any of them venues any good i hear they play soul music oop norf

Bearsy, the one and only time I've had the pleasure of hearing you play I was on the on the floor most of the set. Mind you, I was dancing with me back to the wall which is just as well in hindsight!l!

Bearsy,no need to sell your arse mate - a kidney maybe.

The oldies scene could probably survive without deejays as such.

Stick a couple of i-pods on stage and employ a silver-tongued compere to read requests and reminiscences and that should suffice. Throw in an hour of bingo and a chicken supper and it's starting to look very commercially viable.

The oldies scene could probably survive without deejays as such.

Stick a couple of i-pods on stage and employ a silver-tongued compere to read requests and reminiscences and that should suffice. Throw in an hour of bingo and a chicken supper and it's starting to look very commercially viable.

Don't foeget the BIG SCREENS playing old Wigan dancers

P.s

Can't decide if they are patronising or some kind of subliminal way of encouraging folk to get up and dance

The oldies scene could probably survive without deejays as such.

Stick a couple of i-pods on stage and employ a silver-tongued compere to read requests and reminiscences and that should suffice. Throw in an hour of bingo and a chicken supper and it's starting to look very commercially viable.

.......great idea especially if you could do a tour of Northern Soul Retirement Communities.

Mmmm. I've already got a couple of lappy's with over 50,000 tunes on 'em, I regularly give lectures to music colleges and academies, I'm an ex Northern Soul DJ from the 70's with hours and hours worth of amusing anecdotes, I did Bingo calling @ Dewsbury Bingo Hall when I was a youngster and I'm quite partial to chicken..............

This job's got my name on it Gareth! When do I start?

Ian D

I was just about to say " Perfect job for DJ Dooberry " lol

I was just about to say " Perfect job for DJ Dooberry " lol

'DJ Dooberry From Dewsbury' has a certain ring to it dontcha think.........?

Good thinking Batman. You've got IT experience haven't you? Do you wanna be my roady?

Ian D

No sorry Ian . You are going to have to learn some IT skills yourself one day . Plus it actually sounds like a dire fate , no wonder people are giving up

Edited July 9, 201113 yr by Simon M

Bearsy,no need to sell your arse mate - a kidney maybe.

Out of curiosity, how much is Bearsy's arse?

And is it in reasonable condition........?

Ian D

No sorry Ian . You are going to have to learn some IT skills yourself one day . Plus it actually sounds like a dire fate , no wonder people are giving up

Well I can certainly type better than you Simon.

The thing is that the 'baby boomers' from the 50's (who became teenage Northern Soulers in the late 60's and 70's) are all coming up to their 60's now. In fact there'll soon be more over 60's than under 60's, so someone will have to entertain 'em and probably on their patch since older people don't travel so well and generally don't dance their asses off 'til 8.00am.

It's the future mate. Who needs kids when your core audience is 65 ay?

Ian D

I've been collecting and deejaying since l was 18, buying records on the scene has always

been somewhat "exclusive" but some of the prices l've seen for records lately are what

l'd call "absolute fictional" yes, a lot of 'em ARE rare and obscure and to be honest,

that's ALL they are. My answer to the question of affordability is, if you want to be

a deejay at today's prices is. .buy carefully!!

Tony Warot.

i get the impression by reading through these comments that quite a few of you are south of kettering, judging by the mention of butch and keb etc? so did any of you southern big money spenders frequent any of these venues? TORCH,CATACOOMBES,VA VA,S,MECCA,CLEETHORPES,WIGAN,WHITCHURCH,SAMANTHAS,WARINA,NOTTINGHAM PALAIS,ODD FELLOWS,CLIFTON HALL,QUEENS HALL,HINKLEY[sTAFFORD OLDIES ROOM]just out of curiosity?

Butch from Stoke, Keb is Scottish, dunno what that has to do with being southerners? What does the venues you frequented have to do with collecting and deejaying?

Butch from Stoke, Keb is Scottish, dunno what that has to do with being southerners?   What does the venues you frequented have to do with collecting and deejaying?

For gods sake someone explain to SOE how to use the quote feature

i see from some other post ive read , im speaking to one of the top men on this soul source site [mods] i do beleive? im honoured.I am very well aware that butch is from stoke wich incidently is less than an hour from me!and my hearing is quite in working order i know keb is a scottsman,and i remember keb introducing a lot of new stuff back in the day at the nottingham odd fellows soul club aka central england soul club in leicester.Just that ive read comments on here and i get the impression keb and butch are quite high in esteem in the london area correct? also the few times i have been down there ive seen a few of kebs clones trying to immitate his moves...now unless im mistaken ? i do beleive venues i regularly frequent have dealers selling records, and collectors in attendance, also dj,s coming to listen,so you see chalky it does have something to do with venues ive mentioned... i see by youre age youre a whipper snapper on the scene! and i bet deep down youre dissapointed on missing some of the biggest nighters back in the day?now by youre nickname chalky you wouldnt have a few for sale by anychance? p.s. no disrespect to any of you from london way on here ive been treated very well down there,my last visit was for the tsunami appeal hosted by me mate trickster...just dont want some whipper snapper on here trying to think he,s clever with me, i have wound a few up in a bit of fun... but reading between the lines i do know most of you are decent folks so i intend to stop it and give you the respect you deserve...ktf.

I am a great DJ, now who will lend me some records

Sorry guys couldn't resist my attempt at humour..

ignore me i`m just working out how this quote/ multi quote stuff works

just trying to figure out how big a box i need to get 50ks worth of my collection in. might need a lift to get on stage as box will be 6'6 * 4'6,same size as a bed.either that or a transit van.

Billysbag, At some of todays prices, you'd only need a Greggs paper pasty bag to carry 50Ks worth of tunes around. Even if I put my House collection of 12000 vinyls and my Northern collection of approx 400, it still would be nowhere near 50k, and would probable need a box van to get them all to a gig.

Edited July 9, 201113 yr by steveLuigi