Gay Connection?

[ulyssees 55]

Just a thought but there seems to be a long running connection between the Northern scene and the gay fraternity, I am thinking of quite a few important people along the years who have been instrumental in shaping our scene. It also seems to be quite ironic that the best and most famous club of all is situated in a gay club in the heart of Manchesters gay village.

Any thoughts on this, over to you.

Yule.

[pikeys dog 1,129]

I believe the Wheel was there long before it became recognised as the "Gay Village" - Homosexuality was only made legal in 1967, and then it was still underground.

[pikeys dog 1,129]

Is there a larger than average number of attendees to events who are Gay?

I wouldn't say so - I can count on both hands people on the scene who are openly Gay / Lesbian, yet I know hundrds who are presumably not.

No hair, well polished shoes and a tache doesn't make you automatically Gay does it? - at least I hope not, or I'm batting for the wrong side.

[Guest Paul]

Interesting but I don't think there's a significant connection, it just happens that some soul fans are gay.

I have noticed that gay people tend to be more visable (proportionately) in the music business, film industry, theatres and other creative sectors but even that can be partly explained by the fact that it's usually more "acceptable" to be openly gay in those sectors.

It's likey that the gay / straight ratios in other sectors aren't that different, it's just more difficult to really know because so many gay people keep their sexuality to themselves.

But I know quite a few gay people who are into soul music or involved in the music business etc. and I've worked with a few artists who are gay. Some are openly gay but others aren't, so it's obviously not for me to name anyone.

By the way, if there is (or was) a music genre where it was more "acceptable" to be openly gay, it was the early house music scene which was largely based on soul music anyway.

Paul

[boba 1,920]

By the way, if there is (or was) a music genre where it was more "acceptable" to be openly gay, it was the early house music scene which was largely based on soul music anyway.

I was going to say the same thing, the people who were / are into house in Chicago pride themselves in the openness of their scene, whether or not they are gay. Although some of the 12"s are super weird and gay sounding.

This is one of the most awesome soul train performances of all time:

that rocking chair thing is way over the top.

Edited January 8, 2012 by boba

[Julie Kearney 812]

Ulyssees. are you homophobic ??? i dont gives a monkeys toss who is gay or who is striaght on the scene i love you all as for the twisted wheel i have never frequented but may put it in my diary for a future date to get frisky with our gay fraternity

regards

julie

[redcoupe 23]

apart from a few high profile djs there arnt any gays on the northern scene only batchelers who havnt met the right women yet :wicked: :wicked: ...

[redcoupe 23]

Just a thought but there seems to be a long running connection between the Northern scene and the gay fraternity, I am thinking of quite a few important people along the years who have been instrumental in shaping our scene. It also seems to be quite ironic that the best and most famous club of all is situated in a gay club in the heart of Manchesters gay village.

Any thoughts on this, over to you.

Yule.

if the wheel is in the same building as origonally,there wasnt even a gay village then and gay meant happy,from a northern veiw the old addage location location location,is not working here,, :D im sure the gays are nice people,once you get to know them :thumbup: ps i mean batchelors...

[Dave Rimmer 2,222]

I think it just reflects what is probably the Northern Soul Scenes greatest attribute. We accept anyone. It doesn't matter if you are gay, lesbian, straight, black , white, can dance, can't dance, DJ, or not, as long as you love Soul music, that's enough ! You're in !

[redcoupe 23]

hi joe back in the seventies everybody had shiny shoes and a tash,,,nowdays only the no hair bit applies....keith....

Is there a larger than average number of attendees to events who are Gay?

I wouldn't say so - I can count on both hands people on the scene who are openly Gay / Lesbian, yet I know hundrds who are presumably not.

No hair, well polished shoes and a tache doesn't make you automatically Gay does it? - at least I hope not, or I'm batting for the wrong side.

[Julie Kearney 812]

You lot always bat for the wrong side :-) apart from Rimmergirl

[Prophonics 2029 263]

if the wheel is in the same building as origonally,there wasnt even a gay village then and gay meant happy,from a northern veiw the old addage location location location,is not working here,, :D im sure the gays are nice people,once you get to know them :thumbup: ps i mean batchelors...

Do you live in a very remote part of England at all or have you been locked away from the general public for a long time. What a bazzar coment.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Prophonics 2029

[Guest Drewes]

Just a thought but there seems to be a long running connection between the Northern scene and the gay fraternity, I am thinking of quite a few important people along the years who have been instrumental in shaping our scene. It also seems to be quite ironic that the best and most famous club of all is situated in a gay club in the heart of Manchesters gay village.

Any thoughts on this, over to you.

Yule.

Having been back onto the soul scene for a number of years I IMHO feel that the gay influence is more prevelant off the scene.... been tapped up in Boston and Skeg on far more occasions than my frequent visits to the wheel ;-))

[Guest Drewes]

Having been back onto the soul scene for a number of years I IMHO feel that the gay influence is more prevelant off the scene.... been tapped up in Boston and Skeg on far more occasions than my frequent visits to the wheel ;-))

I hasten to add in a gay capacity.... of which i'm noit........ just for the record lol x

[Prophonics 2029 263]

Having been back onto the soul scene for a number of years I IMHO feel that the gay influence is more prevelant off the scene.... been tapped up in Boston and Skeg on far more occasions than my frequent visits to the wheel ;-))

Note to self- The Boston & Skeg cheers Drew. Any night or just in the week.

[Guest Paul]

Dave Godin and I had some long and interesting discussions about similar or shared experiences or understandings between gay people and black people - and their shared attraction to soul music.

It got quite heavy: more about human nature, public perception, politics, discrimination, criminality, self-esteem and denial etc. than it was about the soul scene.

Dave was more than twenty years older than me; he was openly gay in the days when it was against the law. I think that's what gave him his rebellious nature.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Paul

[Guest Paul]

It's also worth noting that a lot of gay men tend to like traditional uplifting soul tracks with driving rhythms, dramatic arrangements and girlie chorus lines. Classic Motown is the obvious template.

In fact, most early hi-energy tracks were heavily influenced by uptempo soul tracks. Some were covers, others stole rhythms, melodies or lyrical themes from Motown and northern soul classics.

So the question should be... "can soul music make me gay???"

[redcoupe 23]

Do you live in a very remote part of England at all or have you been locked away from the general public for a long time. What a bazzar coment.

i live in the north east and apart from 18 months should have been 3years have not been away from public,i take it your from down sarf,your details dont give much away...have you not herd of sarcassm dryness and general p*ss taking,and its bizzarre not bazzar thats a type of market of sorts.....

[Guest Drewes]

Note to self- The Boston & Skeg cheers Drew. Any night or just in the week.

ohhhh you sound a tad interested.... lol... sorry honey but think you may be the wrong sex. ("-") lol .... skeggie is the lesbian capital of lincolnshire.... I learned to my detriment when some young lady grabbed my ass walking up the street x

[Guest Paul]

....some young lady grabbed my ass walking up the street x

It happens to me all the time.

[Davenpete 1,037]

Dave Godin and I had some long and interesting discussions about similar or shared experiences or understandings between gay people and black people - and their shared attraction to soul music.

Les Cokell once told me that on SOME nights at the Wheel there was SUCH a high proportion of gay (god I hate that term) blokes that today it would be considered a gay club, as it happens Zan made a similar comment last time we were out with him.

I strongly agree with the comments Dave made - and indeed had similar discussions myself with him in his later years when I got to know him, similarly I draw a connection between those who are Jewish and soul (the old Blackpool Cyberman himself being a prime example).

Whilst we've never been huge in number, we've ALWAYS been on the scene and in perhaps larger numbers than you breeders may be aware of - though of course NS is basically an egalitarian scene where it SHOULDN'T matter either way.

Dave

PS Though long before my time - the area around Canal Street has been 'gay' for a long time - way back before the Wheel was there.

Edited January 8, 2012 by DaveNPete

[Guest sharmo 1]

This is intresting as a Buddhist there is no straight or gay just sentient being's with sex basicly being a primative urge and everything else being a state of mind.This may shock all of you but I have been totaly celebate for a nearly a year and I mean totaly I'm now getting towards the end of my obligation and although I'm not allowed to show any pride about this I think that it's a hell of a thing to exsperiance.It's hard for people of a hard westen mental attitude to understand but accepted in the east as a normal part of life being gay or straight is seen as "being and living your life in your true nature" I go to many soul night's and nighters and going to the original point of the thread is there a gay connection I just see people .Has anyone being gay changed the scene no.People shape our scene not sexuality if someone said to me that they were gay I'd just say good for you mate have you heared any new sounds lately best regards Simon.

[CeeJay 356]

Just a thought but there seems to be a long running connection between the Northern scene and the gay fraternity, I am thinking of quite a few important people along the years who have been instrumental in shaping our scene. It also seems to be quite ironic that the best and most famous club of all is situated in a gay club in the heart of Manchesters gay village.

Any thoughts on this, over to you.

Yule.

When I first read this, the only gay bloke I could think of was Marc Almond!! :D

Dave Godin already been mentioned.................out of interest who are the other prominent gay people who shaped the Scene??

Edited January 8, 2012 by Carol J

[Winnie :-) 4,541]

When I first read this, the only gay bloke I could think of was Marc Almondl!!! :D

Dave Godin already been mentioned.................out of interest who are the other prominent gay people who shaped the Scene??

Marvin...............

[Jez Jones 1,012]

Just a thought but there seems to be a long running connection between the Northern scene and the gay fraternity, I am thinking of quite a few important people along the years who have been instrumental in shaping our scene. It also seems to be quite ironic that the best and most famous club of all is situated in a gay club in the heart of Manchesters gay village.

Any thoughts on this, over to you.

Yule.

Mmmm interesting point. A mate of mine--- old 'Wheel boy' from prob 1967 onwards has always believed that there is a 'connection'. He relates it more to a leaning towards liking a 'Motown sound' --rather than any specific 'sub culture'' within the general soul scene itself..

Years ago I challenged him on this--and the reply was---Dont know why but its ALWAYS been generally known(the connection). ..and actually he reckoned it was in evidence a lot in Blackpool!!!

[CeeJay 356]

i live in the north east and apart from 18 months should have been 3years have not been away from public,i take it your from down sarf,your details dont give much away...have you not herd of sarcassm dryness and general p*ss taking,and its bizzarre not bazzar thats a type of market of sorts.....

I got your sense of humour Keith............... I'm another North Eastener!!

[Julie Kearney 812]

When I first read this, the only gay bloke I could think of was Marc Almond!! :D

Dave Godin already been mentioned.................out of interest who are the other prominent gay people who shaped the Scene??

Moldie don`t know about gay but he is a tad queer love you buddy

[lightwatersoul 927]

hi joe back in the seventies everybody had shiny shoes and a tash,,,nowdays only the no hair bit applies....keith....

i dont remember many women that had shiney shoes and a tash back in the 7ts

moldie

[lightwatersoul 927]

Moldie don`t know about gay but he is a tad queer love you buddy

cheers julie but i think the term you are looking for is ODD

love u 2 xx

[Guest allnightandy]

Just a thought but there seems to be a long running connection between the Northern scene and the gay fraternity, I am thinking of quite a few important people along the years who have been instrumental in shaping our scene. It also seems to be quite ironic that the best and most famous club of all is situated in a gay club in the heart of Manchesters gay village.

Any thoughts on this, over to you.

Yule.

Sounds to me like your dipping your toe in the water before coming out !

the reaction you'll get is "Oh really that's nice now this is a great tune" !

[Guest allnightandy]

i dont remember many women that had shiney shoes and a tash back in the 7ts

moldie

They all had one , but nowadays fashions have changed down under ! Edited January 8, 2012 by allnightandy

[redcoupe 23]

I got your sense of humour Keith............... I'm another North Eastener!!

cheers carol how you doing not seen you for a while,i was chuckling when i wrote the posts but illhave to remember not everyones got a sense of humour,theres some serious people out there...k

[suzannek 2,106]

cheers carol how you doing not seen you for a while,i was chuckling when i wrote the posts but illhave to remember not

I have your daft humour also Keith and Carol being a North Easterner. For the record I have lots of gay and straight friends I'm like Julie Moore and others I see the person not the bloomin sexuality.

Suz

x

[Guest proudlove]

Love the "Breeders" comment from D+P and Zan reckons every body is Gay............anyhoo yes there are gay people on the scene.

[CeeJay 356]

cheers carol how you doing not seen you for a while

Hiya Keith...............likewise............miss the nights at Barnsley for sure!!!

Will have a catch up by PM when I get a mo.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Carol J

[Campagnolo 1 45]

Marvin...............

er.!Ian.??

[macca 1,358]

i live in the north east and apart from 18 months should have been 3years have not been away from public,i take it your from down sarf,your details dont give much away...have you not herd of sarcassm dryness and general p*ss taking,and its bizzarre not bazzar thats a type of market of sorts.....

It's bizarre, sarcasm and heard actually, so that's enough of your trumping in church.

[lightwatersoul 927]

er.!Ian.??

WELL IT AINT HAGLER IS IT LOLOL

MOLDIE

[macca 1,358]

When I first read this, the only gay bloke I could think of was Marc Almond!! :D

Dave Godin already been mentioned.................out of interest who are the other prominent gay people who shaped the Scene??

I think I'm right in believing that the Highland Room's change in musical direction in 1976 was largely due to records being sourced on the Gay underground scene in New York.

[Alison H 2,071]

er.!Ian.??

I'll have an "E" please Bob :o))) (poor taste I know, but I'm sure Bob is resting in peace now)

Stage name Gaye, family name Gay ;o) x

[redcoupe 23]

cheers carol how you doing not seen you for a while,i was chuckling when i wrote the posts but illhave to remember not

I have your daft humour also Keith and Carol being a North Easterner. For the record I have lots of gay and straight friends I'm like Julie Moore and others I see the person not the bloomin sexuality.

Suz

x

hiya suz,was at york last night,davy and the girls was there,hope to see you and the gang at bishop friday,save us a seat,im at work till 7....k

[suzannek 2,106]

hiya suz,was at york last night,davy and the girls was there,hope to see you and the gang at bishop friday,save us a seat,im at work till 7....k

Okey doke Keith will be good to see ya

Suz

x

[Mike Lofthouse 985]

I think I'm right in believing that the Highland Room's change in musical direction in 1976 was largely due to records being sourced on the Gay underground scene in New York.

No. In 76 the Highland Room was playing in the main new release Soul. Ian playing the the increasingly Disco orientated stuff (as Soul was fast becoming) - much of which would of been played in New York discos. With Curtis continuing to play mainstream Soul releases many of which continue to this day to be Modern 70s anthems.

[Guest ruppy]

What the f*ck being gay straight black or white has to do with the scene

Two of our closest friends are always with us at nighers and often party round with us

Good guys,love the scene ,and enjoy there company at all times

Mick h

[Guest allnightandy]

What the f*ck being gay straight black or white has to do with the scene

Two of our closest friends are always with us at nighers and often party round with us

Good guys,love the scene ,and enjoy there company at all times

Mick h

ask the original poster !

[macca 1,358]

No. In 76 the Highland Room was playing in the main new release Soul. Ian playing the the increasingly Disco orientated stuff (as Soul was fast becoming) - much of which would of been played in New York discos. With Curtis continuing to play mainstream Soul releases many of which continue to this day to be Modern 70s anthems.

I'd just read somewhere that Ian was sourcing a lot of that soon to be called Disco material as a result of his forays into the NYC gay scene, and one club in particular whose name escapes me right now. It was on one of those DJ profiles somewhere on the net.

[Mike Lofthouse 985]

I'd just read somewhere that Ian was sourcing a lot of that soon to be called Disco material as a result of his forays into the NYC gay scene, and one club in particular whose name escapes me right now. It was on one of those DJ profiles somewhere on the net.

There was more to the Highland Room than just Ian - a large percentage of the crowd were Soul fans who enjoyed new release Soul - most of which was probably sourced via Record Corner and the many shops it supplied. Soul evolved into Disco and Ian's plays simply reflected that.

[Chalky 14,474]

Two infantile posts removed, better is expected form grown ups.

Please keep this topic civil and knock the innuendos and juvenile postings/comments off this site. Not needed or wanted.

[macca 1,358]

Mike, I read it here: http://www.milliondollardisco.com/northerndisco.html

Ian Levine can be credited as one of the first UK DJs to openly embrace the disco scene. He visited plenty of clubs in New York and befriended a lot of the DJs he met, which gave him access to all the new releases as they came off the press. Songs by Crown Heights Affair, Willy J, The Brothers and The Fatback Band became Mecca classics. Not only was Ian Levine the first UK DJ to play a 12" single; he was one of the first people in the world to even see one! It seems Kev Roberts (Wigan Casino DJ and northern soul collector extrordinaire - more about him later) was in RCA's New York office sometime in 1975 and was given a hot off the press 12" copy of Vicky Sue Robinson's "Never Gonna Let You Go", which he gave to Levine on his return to the UK. According to Ian, and he's argued his case over the years, this was the first promotional 12" single released. It was an experiment he says, and has the same two songs on both sides. Whether he's correct about this being the first 12" or not, it was most certainly the first one to reach UK shores, and Ian was definitely the first DJ to play it.

He became such a fan of the 12" format that he convinced Polydor Records to press what Ian believes is the UK's first 12" single - James Wells' "Baby I'm the Same Man", a record he wrote and produced and which was already big on northern dancefloors. It was pressed in a limited quantity for promotional use only, but Ian is convinced it was released before the likes of Ernie Bush "Breakaway", which was almost certainly the first commercially released 12" in the UK.

Unlike London's DJs and clubbers, Ian and his DJing partner Colin Curtis didn't shy away from the word disco - "New York Disco" and "Disco Funk" were used on much of the Mecca's promotional material. In fact, their adverts in Blues & Soul magazine from the time read "The Only Place To Hear Authentic New York Disco"! The time Ian spent over there hanging out with the likes of Jim Burgess, Warren Glock and Terry Sherman was rubbing off on him: although the equipment in the Mecca was very basic (Ian recalls only one turntable working at times, and him announcing the next song with a mic in one hand, while he tried to quickly change the record with the other), Ian developed an interest in mixing. By 1976 he'd taught himself, and managed to put his skills to the test with a couple of guest spots in Uncle Charlies in Miami, where his friend Steve Freeman was resident DJ. It would be a few years before he could utilise his new skill over here though.

[Mike Lofthouse 985]

Mike, I read it here: http://www.milliondo...therndisco.html

Ian Levine can be credited as one of the first UK DJs to openly embrace the disco scene. He visited plenty of clubs in New York and befriended a lot of the DJs he met, which gave him access to all the new releases as they came off the press. Songs by Crown Heights Affair, Willy J, The Brothers and The Fatback Band became Mecca classics. Not only was Ian Levine the first UK DJ to play a 12" single; he was one of the first people in the world to even see one! It seems Kev Roberts (Wigan Casino DJ and northern soul collector extrordinaire - more about him later) was in RCA's New York office sometime in 1975 and was given a hot off the press 12" copy of Vicky Sue Robinson's "Never Gonna Let You Go", which he gave to Levine on his return to the UK. According to Ian, and he's argued his case over the years, this was the first promotional 12" single released. It was an experiment he says, and has the same two songs on both sides. Whether he's correct about this being the first 12" or not, it was most certainly the first one to reach UK shores, and Ian was definitely the first DJ to play it.

He became such a fan of the 12" format that he convinced Polydor Records to press what Ian believes is the UK's first 12" single - James Wells' "Baby I'm the Same Man", a record he wrote and produced and which was already big on northern dancefloors. It was pressed in a limited quantity for promotional use only, but Ian is convinced it was released before the likes of Ernie Bush "Breakaway", which was almost certainly the first commercially released 12" in the UK.

Unlike London's DJs and clubbers, Ian and his DJing partner Colin Curtis didn't shy away from the word disco - "New York Disco" and "Disco Funk" were used on much of the Mecca's promotional material. In fact, their adverts in Blues & Soul magazine from the time read "The Only Place To Hear Authentic New York Disco"! The time Ian spent over there hanging out with the likes of Jim Burgess, Warren Glock and Terry Sherman was rubbing off on him: although the equipment in the Mecca was very basic (Ian recalls only one turntable working at times, and him announcing the next song with a mic in one hand, while he tried to quickly change the record with the other), Ian developed an interest in mixing. By 1976 he'd taught himself, and managed to put his skills to the test with a couple of guest spots in Uncle Charlies in Miami, where his friend Steve Freeman was resident DJ. It would be a few years before he could utilise his new skill over here though.

Would not disagree with any of that - it is basically what I said - Soul evolved into Disco and Ian embraced it and his plays simply reflected that - but I don't think it was a conscious effort to emulate any 'gay' scene , Disco was not exclusively Gay. And I'm sure the record company's were targeting and successfully reaching a wider audience than that.