Are some northern fans more into collecting than the music? a non soulie friend and I were having a conv about hobbies, he's a big fishing head, we were talking about ' all the gear no idea' and he asked me the above question, cause I lept to our defence but since I've been wondering. Especially as I know people on the rare and oldies scenes only seem to be interested in records they already know and have been availible on CD for the last 15 years.

a non soulie friend and I were having a conv about hobbies, he's a big fishing head,

Think I know him Geese, does he tends to carp on a bit.....

Edited January 24, 201213 yr by Mace

Fish Heads.....

#They're not good dancers and they don't play drums...#

Ask Salmon...............

I'm totally fished off at you's all carping on and taking the phish!

I just said this on another thread, but I think all the ego-inflating talk about value, known copies, etc. is stupid (and usually wrong) and definitely takes the focus away from the music.

Edited January 25, 201213 yr by boba

Are some northern fans more into collecting than the music? a non soulie friend and I were having a conv about hobbies, he's a big fishing head, we were talking about ' all the gear no idea' and he asked me the above question, cause I lept to our defence but since I've been wondering. Especially as I know people on the rare and oldies scenes only seem to be interested in records they already know and have been availible on CD for the last 15 years.

Simple answer yes, there are a lot off collecters who don't go to soul nites but still collect, but on the other hand a lot do go to soul nites that don't collect.

I'm totally fished off at you's all carping on and taking the phish!

Does he buy all his northern Sole records C.O.D ?

Does he buy all his northern Sole records C.O.D ?

Only anything by the C.O.D.s

I just said this on another thread, but I think all the ego-inflating talk about value, known copies, etc. is stupid (and usually wrong) and definitely takes the focus away from the music.

its often the case, and I'm not being specific but I played a clip of a rare unknown on here that I honestly wouldnt keep if I'd payed a couple of quid for, it was valued at several hundreds. I'm not even about people who collect to uncover and discover music, there seem so many that arent interested in anythign that isnt a very well know sound that will instantly fill the floor, be it Holly st James or Harvey Averne.

Available on a fishhead shaped picture disc..... Dave Abbott has one

Geese i'm not following you..."so many that are'nt interested in anything that isnt a well known sound"? If that's the case,the rare scene would be thriving.

Edited January 25, 201213 yr by KevH

Geese i'm not following you..."so many that are'nt interested in anything that isnt a well known sound"? If that's the case,the rare scene would be thriving.

Sorry Kev, not being pedantic but I'm not following you either, but you should know I'm a skatty divit by now! but to clarify what I mean is there are a whole bunch of collectors that chase the same tunes wether they be classified as big oldies or rare soul. and it seems to me there not in the least bit interested in music, just investing in something that will either keep its value well, in monetary terms or in terms of getting people up to dance with reliable sounds.

collectors within this scene are into the music in the biggest way poss , they hear a record and have to have it , usualy at any cost

hence the prices ! .And i thank heaven for them , otherwise i would have nothing to dance too

I just said this on another thread, but I think all the ego-inflating talk about value, known copies, etc. is stupid (and usually wrong) and definitely takes the focus away from the music.

Well, don't want to get in another argument with you BOB, but that is a little harsh isn't it? I'm not a serious collector myself, I only have about 3-4,000 45s and about 2,000 albums, but the 'collecting' thing goes outside of Soul records, it's a very British thing, people 'collect' and have 'collected' everything and anything over here for centuries...There are some people who perhaps get an ego boost, but then people get that from owning houses, cars, a smart pair of shoes, almost anything that can impress others...But the vast majority of people collect because they love the music and genuinely get a buzz about collecting and - very importantly - then preserving the records....I would say that if the Northern Soul scene had never existed and all the great British collectors had not got into it, the truth is that the wax mountain of US 60s Soul records that reside in the UK, would probably be in a very poor state now if most of them still survived at all...And if that had not happened, then the vast catalogue of CD releases we have seen in the contemporary era would not have occurred either, being it was the original passion of wanting to own these records that inspired it all...There is a superb collective archive of genuine historical musical artefacts representing that musical period of Black American culture in this country and I think that is something we can be proud of....Not something which should be derided as 'stupid'?....As for the values, yes, some of the prices are silly, but on the whole and especially among the lower to mid range where most of us pick and choose our 45s, we've been doing it long enough to know when something is heavily overpriced mate...I think the collective library of US Soul 45s that sits behind these shores, is one of the great wonders of the world, but then I'm probably just stupid anyway!....

_{I'd still collect records whether there was a scene or not. ANd I am sure there are plenty of others like that.}

_{I like the "scenes" (since I am on a number of them), but to me hearing a new record that's just popped through the letterbox is always my biggest thrill.}

_{The scenes I am on are either for sharing music with others, via DJing and hearing others DJ (which you don't really need a scene for since you can MP3 tracks), and for socialisng with people who like similar music.}

I go weak at the site of a red and white British demo. So I buy it. Then never play it. Strange....

_{I'd still collect records whether there was a scene or not. ANd I am sure there are plenty of others like that.}

_{I like the "scenes" (since I am on a number of them), but to me hearing a new record that's just popped through the letterbox is always my biggest thrill.}

_{The scenes I am on are either for sharing music with others, via DJing and hearing others DJ (which you don't really need a scene for since you can MP3 tracks), and for socialisng with people who like similar music.}

Agree totally mate for a change!....That buzz of seeing the brown packet on the mat, carefully opening it and placing it on the decks and whacking up the volume is a great one and still feels as good now after all these years....

I go weak at the site of a red and white British demo. So I buy it. Then never play it. Strange....

Funny you should come on and say that PETE, this morning, just twenty minutes ago, I whacked on four of those in a row...ZOOT MONEY 'let's run for cover', SAPPHIRES 'Who do you love'...THE HEARTS 'Dear Abby' and THE CONTOURS 'Can you do it'....Just stood there, watching that red A go round and round in a trance....I am always stood there wondering who it was who was playing them in their bedroom in the 60s....Fascinating eh?....!!!!!

British Red and white demos - yes fantastic. There's something special about them. With a number of them you wonder why did they release them here? WHat was the market? Good case in point "The Drifter" - championed by DJ Alan Freeman no less at the time, but clearly not going to be a big seller. And yet someone at UA decided it was one that should go into the quota and get a release here (no doubt in exchange for the US releasing a record by a UK act).

Even more bizarre some of those European releases - I mean 7 Souls, Joey Irving, Wil Collins and Willpower etc....anyway I digress, having a good British box is a must in my view....

Edited January 25, 201213 yr by Steve G

Sorry Kev, not being pedantic but I'm not following you either, but you should know I'm a skatty divit by now! but to clarify what I mean is there are a whole bunch of collectors that chase the same tunes wether they be classified as big oldies or rare soul. and it seems to me there not in the least bit interested in music, just investing in something that will either keep its value well, in monetary terms or in terms of getting people up to dance with reliable sounds.

Dont know about "whole bunch of collectors" Geese,maybe the same few with more money than sense.There's always been dj's/collectors not interested in the quality of music - just dance value.

Then again,they've always been outweighed by people who just came to dance,and not interested in value or quality.

anyway I digress, having a good British box is a must in my view....

Until this moment, people that hitherto considered themselves to be sane individuals will take these words as a ´sign' and start behaving irrationally, giving their partners cause for concern, with neighbours peering at them when they put the bins out, looking for that tell-tale mad gleam and trace of saliva in the corner of the mouth. You may not be aware of what you've started, Steve.

British Red and white demos - yes fantastic. There's something special about them. With a number of them you wonder why did they release them here? WHat was the market? Good case in point "The Drifter" - championed by DJ Alan Freeman no less at the time, but clearly not going to be a big seller. And yet someone at UA decided it was one that should go into the quota and get a release here (no doubt in exchange for the US releasing a record by a UK act).

Even more bizarre some of those European releases - I mean 7 Souls, Joey Irving, Wil Collins and Willpower etc....anyway I digress, having a good British box is a must in my view....

I think I can see why Drifter got a release, it was fairly commercial and was already in the hands of UK publishers hence the almost simultaneous release of Long John Baldry's version (and two other later cover versions), also I have a copy of Record Songwords which actually features Ray Pollard's It's A Sad Thing, so UA/EMI must have been behind ray Pollard to hype his non-hit into a magazine containing mainly chart lyrics. But I do agree, some choices of release were just bizarre and I always wondered who bought new releases by the likes of Rufus Lumley.

I just said this on another thread, but I think all the ego-inflating talk about value, known copies, etc. is stupid (and usually wrong) and definitely takes the focus away from the music.

This is very very true.

Last couple of times I went out [some time ago I admit] in Sunderland and at Burnley I got stuck in a conversation with some moron talking titles and it was evident all they were interested in was big value 45s. Extremely dull so I started introducing cheap titles to counter every expensive title and they lost interest.

Almost like I put down Cecil Washington and you raise me James Lately. Throwing in the Formations isn't playing the game so they won't play with you cos you don't know the rules.

ROD

The northern scene has always been dogged by trophy hunters though hasn't it. It's hardly a new phenomenon.

Let's remember how angry a certain DJ was when Cecil Washington was uncovered ll those years ago.....

Edited January 25, 201213 yr by Steve G

Think I know him Geese, does he tends to carp on a bit.....

really funny :lol: :lol:

Fish Heads.....

#They're not good dancers and they don't play drums...#

:lol: :lol:

I'm totally fished off at you's all carping on and taking the phish!

so you should be :lol: :lol:

Simple answer yes, there are a lot off collecters who don't go to soul nites but still collect, but on the other hand a lot do go to soul nites that don't collect.

agree you 100%

funny stuff Jez

:lol:

Only anything by the C.O.D.s

how about fillet of sole

funny stuff Jez

:lol:

Hey up Steve,hows it going my friend---trust your keeping well .......hehehehehe ..couldn't resist putting that clip up :lol:

the way some of you guys have put it reminds me of the inherent qualities of collecting, the asthetics heritage ect and I do see the point but for me its always beena bout the thrill of the chase and cant understand anyone who's ONLY absorbed in collecting records the're very familiar with, thats what makes me wonder about those who do. Dont you loose something as a collector when your not keeping you collection topped up with fresh plays? Are you really collecting music or just memories?

Hey up Steve,hows it going my friend---trust your keeping well .......hehehehehe ..couldn't resist putting that clip up :lol:

doing great my friend ' great clip very funny' hope your motown night went ok and you played the tunes i gave you.

atb

steve

Rich: while I do not want to engage you in an argument, I just want to encourage you to read the single sentence I wrote in this thread and find the place where I said or even implied negative things about record collecting. Furthermore, I encourage you to take a look at the threads that I do participate in on this message board to try and gauge my attitude as to whether I would think that record collecting is bad.

Thank you,

Bob

Edited January 26, 201213 yr by boba

BOBA SAID:

'I think all the ego-inflating talk about value, known copies, etc. is stupid (and usually wrong) and definitely takes the focus away from the music..'

BOBA said:

Rich: while I do not want to engage you in an argument, I just want to encourage you to read the single sentence I wrote in this thread and find the place where I said or even implied negative things about record collecting. Furthermore, I encourage you to take a look at the threads that I do participate in on this message board to try and gauge my attitude as to whether I would think that record collecting is bad.

Thank you,

Bob

I think that 'one sentence' is a tad harsh in several ways...Firstly a large amount of people talk about the question of 'how many copies' and I cannot see anything wrong with that, if a collector has a rare stamp, he cherishes it and is proud to own it, he might even show it off to people now and then, with other collectors he will speculate as to how many copies of the stamp may exist...what's wrong with that? Same goes for a rare record, why shouldn't somebody be proud to own one? I've got a few records worth a few quid, they are all records I genuinely love and I am proud to own them...What is stupid about that? It's like owning a 'old Master' painting and talking about how many other paintings there are around in that particular style, from that Artist?

Secondly, all collectable items have a price and the discussion of price issues is just another perfectly normal aspect of collecting anything...Again I cannot see anything 'stupid' in that other than the fact sometimes people ask for silly prices, which again dovetails with all other fields of collecting....

Lastly, I have to say, most people I have ever met who seriously collect, love the music and quite often possess remarkable levels of knowledge regarding American Soul....So I disagree with your comment that 'it takes the focus away from the music' as I think it is an unfair and factually unbalanced generalisation ...

It does not have to be an argument, it can be a discussion!....

Edited January 26, 201213 yr by rich chorley

I collect different sorts of music, freakbeat,psych,jazz,funk,northern etc and try to collect the best music of every genre....never bothered being a label completist as most have their fair share of turkeys....I do breathe a sigh of relief though when I see big money records advertised and hear them and find out they are crap (IMHO)...that's one I don't need.There are quality music collectors, just rare collectors,label completists and people who just want the music on any format....i personally have always been into original stuff and wouldn't settle for a fake picasso on the wall.

Hi All This is a question , that often baffles me, my issue is why do some of the TOP Rare soul records, seem to be owned by people, who show no interest in records that have real quality but because they are under £30, the people in question do not want them, & have no desire to own them?

About 2 years ago I was talking to a very well known member of the Rare Soul Scene, who enjoys being invited to DJ at the top soul venues, he buys and sells soul records, when I stated that he must have about almost everything in his collection, his reply could have knocked me over, he stated "no far from it, all the vinyl I have is in my DJ BOX" it would seem, to me that in this case, more emphasis was placed on being a top DJ, now I no this person has a great love for all soul, and freely admits that his collection of CDs covers 1000's of soul records, that he loves but would not DJ with, I could empathies to a point with this, as it took me back to the days when most people would take there record box to All Nighters with there best sounds in, to swap some for new records and just to show others what good records they had, but that for me was the early days of collecting,

As I have many soul records I clearly fall into the collector groove. However I follow the poignant words of one of the pioneers of the rare soul scene PEP, when I once asked him about an obscure British Northern Dancer, he replied "I collect Rare Soul, I'm not a stamp collector" these words had an impact on myself, and also gave me self control over what I collected,

So today when I tell people I have nearly finished my UK collection, it does not mean that I have all the nearly made it records, it means I have all the recognized UK releases from Stateside CBS to Doctor Bird,? It still baffles me that labels Like Direction Label has records that are unknown to people who own £1000 Records? DAVE60

Too much off topic creeping in to certain topics. Ask all members to try and please keep it to a minimum. Other members who don't have a lot of spare time do complain about opening posts to find nothing of interest. I'm all for a bit of light hearted relief or humour in a topic especially one of the more serious ones but some members go to far. Jokes should be in freebasing. Will tidy this topici up later.

I do agree with you Bob that too much emphasis is put upon the records that command a high price and often ignore the vast majority that are well within most collectors budget. This scene however was built upon rare records that were exclusive to the DJ or to a certain few, still is to some extent. Collecting and the "scene" are different even though they are heavily linked.

the answer IMO to the original question is yes...ofcourse there are some collectors who are more interested in the collecting than the music on the record....while this is a million miles from my point of view i am not shocked by it....

humans collect whether it be toys,medals,rocks,stamps,postcards etc....do you honestly think collecters of theses other things actually like every piece in their collections? im sure some have things only because of their rarity...i mean most of these other things you can only look at anyway,,,record collectors get to look and hear and dance!!...but only if they want to and thats upto them

those who collect only expensive records....well maybe thats why they can!...why not ? if they are happy with owning the other tracks on cd....just like an art collector only having priceless pieces i suppose....

i reckon anyway...each to their own

dean

One person (naming no names)i know springs to mind, he is what i call a 'trophy collector', i've NEVER heard him get excited about a record musically, never seen him dance and all he talks about is the value and always mocks other DJ's if they play cheap records, even when they are absolute quality. It's just a status thing with him as far as i can see, and i my opinion a bit pathetic...

There's rubbish on most labels that are of no interest other than to complete the label run.

Some good points here.

I think the northern scene has always had it's share of people who are only interested in 'rarities'. Maybe this a by product of wanting to DJ and have the most 'elite' sounds? Since we mentioned him recently, I seem to remember discussing the finer points of Candi Staton's career once at Leeds with Steve Chadwick. It was a one way conversation that lasted all of 15 seconds because at the time apart from "Upper hand" he didn't know anything else she'd made. So we moved onto Bobby Womack, Bettye Swann etc. same reaction etc.

I have been a label collector slightly ha ha, did loads of em, Veep, Loma, Minit, Toddling Town, SS7, Wand, Arctic, revilot etc. but those types of labels do have a high percentage of good records on them, and fewer turkeys. I've just been going through my Chess collection for a radio show, blimee some great stuff I'd forgotten about. Dunno whether half of them are £5 or £100 records, but that doesn't matter at the end of the day. What maters is 'cor this sounds good'

So yeah collector first, and that's borne out by the fact that I have just discovered that I am inadvertently upgrading some of my single sided demos to issues with B sides

Chalky is quite right when he says the vast majority of good records are within the budget of most collectors.

One person (naming no names)i know springs to mind, he is what i call a 'trophy collector', i've NEVER heard him get excited about a record musically, never seen him dance and all he talks about is the value and always mocks other DJ's if they play cheap records, even when they are absolute quality. It's just a status thing with him as far as i can see, and i my opinion a bit pathetic...

YOU HATE RECORD COLLECTING! WHY DO YOU HATE RECORD COLLECTING?

YOU HATE RECORD COLLECTING! WHY DO YOU HATE RECORD COLLECTING?

ALSO YOU HATE KITTENS

I only hate inexpensive kittens myself.

I do find it weird when a DJ won't play a single record that's cheap. Especially when djing here in the US where the market for dance floor soul seems mostly driven by overseas demand. If you can't play a cheapie it seems like you may be following someone else's roadmap.

I only hate inexpensive kittens myself.

I do find it weird when a DJ won't play a single record that's cheap. Especially when djing here in the US where the market for dance floor soul seems mostly driven by overseas demand. If you can't play a cheapie it seems like you may be following someone else's roadmap.

I also find it weird that in my experience, some people who can't afford it like to get the most expensive records. I think it's sort of an ego thing (versus being music driven) in that case. People always say here that there are thousands of good cheap records, which is true, but I'm not really seeing them when I look at the event playlists.

I also find it weird that in my experience, some people who can't afford it like to get the most expensive records. I think it's sort of an ego thing (versus being music driven) in that case. People always say here that there are thousands of good cheap records, which is true, but I'm not really seeing them when I look at the event playlists.

I noticed a playlist from the I think "underplayed" scene and it was really varied, of course now I can't remember who did it or what it was called. Was fun to look through though. I often am more cagey about sharing info about cheaper records I play personally...