i just got a copy of this single on the red "Part III" label - but i have also seen it on Cap City. what is the story behind these two issues? thanks!

I'd bet that Part III is the original.

I'd bet that Part III is the original.

Not sure..maybe both issued at the same time? Either way....What a double sider!

i just got a copy of this single on the red "Part III" label - but i have also seen it on Cap City. what is the story behind these two issues? thanks!

I've got it on the red Part 111 also. Has anyone researched and written about the Lovations? I've got quite a few of their 45's and I think they are all fantastic records, Who were they? did they ever do an LP? are they all still alive? Did they go on to do other things? etc etc.

Jordi

Awesome girl group with a nice catalogue of collectable stuff (id rate them up there with patti & the lovelites).................... essential tunes!!!!!!!!!!

think id side with robbk on the red part 111

Awesome girl group with a nice catalogue of collectable stuff (id rate them up there with patti & the lovelites).................... essential tunes!!!!!!!!!!

think id side with robbk on the red part 111

Always thought Part III was the local label and first release Flanny ... what I was told when had both??i

Always thought Part III was the local label and first release Flanny ... what I was told when had both??i

thats what i said agreeing with robbk.s assumption

Cap City was the bigger of the two labels, and by the time The Lovations song was out, Cap City had at least a large East Coast/Midwest distributor if not a national distributor. It would seem that the rights owners leased it to the bigger label for wider distribution.

Cap City product was manufactured and distributed by Scepter.

Thanks for info guys. I also have a lovations single on the Segue label. Fantastic low rider tunes!

I take it The Lovations and The Lovelettes are the same group.

The Lovations - I Can't Forget about You / Instrumental - Cap City CC 114

The Lovelettes - Don't Forget Poor Me / I Can't Forget About You - Cap City CC 117

soulmac.

I take it The Lovations and The Lovelettes are the same group.

The Lovations - I Can't Forget about You / Instrumental - Cap City CC 114

The Lovelettes - Don't Forget Poor Me / I Can't Forget About You - Cap City CC 117

soulmac.

Like I said earlier, has anyone got any info about the girls? Anybody know who the players on the sessions were? The musicianship was superb on tracks like "Later Baby".

Jordi

Like I said earlier, has anyone got any info about the girls? Anybody know who the players on the sessions were? The musicianship was superb on tracks like "Later Baby".

Jordi

later baby does it for me sooo in demand and what a great drummer on this one

Part III was likely a subsidiary of cap City, in any case. Their music publisher was Three Part Music (which was one of the main music publishers of Cap City Records). Cardell Eaton worked with both labels. I suspect that The Lovations' group members came from the Greater D.C./Baltimore Area.

The lovations were definitely from Philadelphia. One of the Fawns (who were DC) confirmed this. That is also why they have a record on Segue which was a philly label. I suspect Part III might actually be a Philly label and not DC (despite being listed at dcsoulrecordings.com) because the Sherlock Holmes thing on Part III reminds me of the Sherlock Homes Investigation, but that is just speculation. But the Lovations were from DC for sure. They are also not the Lovelettes, those are two different recordings of the same song.

BUT were the group from DC or Philly ????????????//

............ OFF THE NET ...............

Cardell Eaton / the Lovations.....names I haven't heard since I last performed in THE HILL DIST. 30 plus years ago. Although I don't remember this tune but it has that Pittsburgh sound.

"They used to call the Hill District 'Little Harlem' because of the amount of jazz artists coming through there," said Nathan Davis .....

The Hill District is a collection of neighborhoods that is considered by many to be the cultural center of African-American life in Pittsburgh. Harlem Renaissance poet Claude McKay once called the district "the crossroads of the world," referring to the neighborhood's heyday in the 1930s—1950s. It is known to many Pittsburghers as simply "The Hill."

pittsburghlive.com - Jan 17, 2008: "There's one by a group called 'Basic Sounds of Pittsburgh,'" Hopper says. "A group called the Lovations -- their 45 was produced by Nathan Davis over at Pittsburgh …….. Nathan Davis, director of jazz studies at the University of Piitsburgh ....

Pittsburgh's jazz legacy shows up again on the new set of Jazz Icon DVDs, this time in a team many have forgotten.In 1965, Nathan Davis, the director of jazz studies at the University of Pittsburgh, was in Paris, carving out a saxophone life that still makes him famous in Europe. For a time, he sat in with Pittsburgh legend Art Blakey on a tour through the Continent. So along with all the other famous editions of the Jazz Messengers there was one of Blakey, Davis, trumpeter Freddie Hubbard, pianist Jaki Byard and bassist Reggie Workman. This DVD, along with one featuring Pittsburgh's Erroll Garner, is yet another depiction of the city's jazz history from this series. This year's titles also feature works by Anita O'Day, Jimmy Smith, Coleman Hawkins, Art Farmer and Woody Herman. Since the series began in 2006, Pittsburgh jazz has taken a starring role, either with discs headlined by Blakey or featuring Joe Harris, Ray Brown or Kenny Clarke as backup players.

The plot thickens .............. more later .....

Edited November 14, 201212 yr by Roburt

Billboard 1969 ..............

One of the Lovations cuts was a song ("I Don't Want You") written by ....... Eugene A Todd & Leon A Barber

This pairing usually have their work published by ............

EUBERTO MUSIC

C/O B GIBSON

5047 D STREET S E

WASHINGTON, DC 20019-6119

....... so that makes them DC based ......... well maybe ...

they also had songs published by ....

HERB COHEN

DBA HERCO MUSIC

2257 28TH ST NO 1

SANTA MONICA, CA 90405

......... AND .......

RSVP MUSIC INC

C/O JERRY SIMON

P O BOX 278

WOODSTOCK, NY 12498-0278

...............AND ....

.REGENT MUSIC, NEW YORK

..... BUT ...

t he above pair also wrote with Vinnie Barrett who wrote at times for Mighty Three Music of Philly.

So you pays your money & takes your choice !!!!

No mention of Pittsburgh in the above data though that guy who's comment I added into the post before last says he saw the group perform in Pittsburgh Hill District.

I just checked and Soul Harmony Singles now says Pittsburgh, I think Jeff got more detailed information since I last talked to him. Here is the listed membership: "Sisters Crystal and Penny Wilson, plus one unknown member." The lady from the Fawns did say Philly though. Either way, they are definitely not DC, the fact that they were on a DC label makes it not surprising that there were DC songwriters.

Also, btw, Eugene Todd and Leon Barber are the E.L. in G.E.L. (the label and the production company).

And Pittsburgh is DEFINITELY back in the frame via this Billboard entry from September 1971 ......

So as Bob has confirmed, it seems that the Lovations were from Pittsburgh & a number of artists from that city cut locally and had their tracks released on Segue Records.

Edited November 14, 201212 yr by Roburt

No doubt a few of the musicians who played on this album backed up the Lovations on some of their tracks ....

Edited November 14, 201212 yr by Roburt

More on Segue Records .............

I just checked and Soul Harmony Singles now says Pittsburgh, I think Jeff got more detailed information since I last talked to him. Here is the listed membership: "Sisters Crystal and Penny Wilson, plus one unknown member." The lady from the Fawns did say Philly though. Either way, they are definitely not DC, the fact that they were on a DC label makes it not surprising that there were DC songwriters.

A Denise Wilson wrote one of their songs, guess she was a sister who wasn't actually in the group.

Cardell Eaton (who was involved with the group's Cap City / Part III 45's) is on a US school related web site .............

Cardell Eaton -- 1966 graduate of Schenley High School in Pittsburgh, PA is on Memory Lane ........

https://www.classmates.com/people/Cardell-Eaton/8694715635

To register on the site (& then contact Cardell), it seems that you have to enter your US High School info (which not a lot of Brits can do !!!)

.... it also seems that Cardell was involved in music education in the early 70's ..........

Many budding DJ's took broadcasting courses at the Opportunities Industrialization Center in Pittsburgh.

The center (OIC) was affiliated with WQLN-FM under the mentorship of Cardell "Soul" Eaton

...... WQLN ..........

City of license Erie, Pennsylvania

"WQLN 91.3 FM" Frequency: 91.3 MHz (FM)

First air date: January 7, 1973 > Public affairs/News/Talk/Classical Music

ERP 35,000 watts

Callsign meaning >> We Question and LearN

Owner: Public Broadcasting of Northwest Pennsylvania, Inc.

Another Segue LP ................

6th Sense In The 11th House — Nathan Davis ..... Segue #1002 -- 1972

Recorded at WRS Recording Studios, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Another jazz outfit who were on Segue Records was the highly rated recording outfit the Silhouettes.

The Silhouettes group leader was George Bacasa & he put out the group’s 1^st 45 on his own Bye George label. The core of the group was from the Lawrenceville neighborhood of Pittsburgh, PA and it consisted of Bacasa (flute & sax), Ronnie Thomas (bass) and Al Secen (vibes). The

Silhouettes eventually went on to record the "Red Snow" single on Western World Records and the LP 'Conversations with the Silhouettes' which was produced by Nathan Davis for Segue Records. They also had a 45 out on the label ................

Edited November 14, 201212 yr by Roburt

Straying a bit off topic now .... but the music's still fine .....

The Silhouettes "Red Snow" ............ fine jazz funk ..............

More bits related to WRS Recording Sutdios ..... where Segue cut their tracks .............

the 1st one dates from 1969, the 2nd from 1970 & the 3rd from in the 70's .....

Info on Segue's funky (!?!) Silhouettes ....................

https://oldmonmusic.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/pittsburghs-silhouettes.html

just checking back in on this thread and i can't help but admire all of your dedication to soul music and its history. every time i start a thread on soul-source i end up with my mind blown.

you all should start a detective agency - this much tenacity could crack a bunch of unsolved murders!

We'd know even more about the Lovations and Segue Records if only you had asked us back in 1987 .....

....... when the label's Nathan Davis was in London a couple of times & we could have asked him ................

On 14/11/2012 at 08:20, Roburt said:

BUT were the group from DC or Philly ????????????//

............ OFF THE NET ...............

 

Cardell Eaton / the Lovations.....names I haven't heard since I last performed in THE HILL DIST. 30 plus years ago. Although I don't remember this tune but it has that Pittsburgh sound.

"They used to call the Hill District 'Little Harlem' because of the amount of jazz artists coming through there," said Nathan Davis .....

The Hill District is a collection of neighborhoods that is considered by many to be the cultural center of African-American life in Pittsburgh. Harlem Renaissance poet Claude McKay once called the district "the crossroads of the world," referring to the neighborhood's heyday in the 1930s—1950s. It is known to many Pittsburghers as simply "The Hill."

 

pittsburghlive.com - Jan 17, 2008: "There's one by a group called 'Basic Sounds of Pittsburgh,'" Hopper says. "A group called the Lovations -- their 45 was produced by Nathan Davis over at Pittsburgh …….. Nathan Davis, director of jazz studies at the University of Piitsburgh ....

Pittsburgh's jazz legacy shows up again on the new set of Jazz Icon DVDs, this time in a team many have forgotten.In 1965, Nathan Davis, the director of jazz studies at the University of Pittsburgh, was in Paris, carving out a saxophone life that still makes him famous in Europe. For a time, he sat in with Pittsburgh legend Art Blakey on a tour through the Continent. So along with all the other famous editions of the Jazz Messengers there was one of Blakey, Davis, trumpeter Freddie Hubbard, pianist Jaki Byard and bassist Reggie Workman. This DVD, along with one featuring Pittsburgh's Erroll Garner, is yet another depiction of the city's jazz history from this series. This year's titles also feature works by Anita O'Day, Jimmy Smith, Coleman Hawkins, Art Farmer and Woody Herman. Since the series began in 2006, Pittsburgh jazz has taken a starring role, either with discs headlined by Blakey or featuring Joe Harris, Ray Brown or Kenny Clarke as backup players.

 

The plot thickens .............. more later .....

The Lovations consisted of Penny and Crystal Wilson, and the Saxons sisters. Apparently, their 45s were recorded with Pittsburgh jazz muscians including Nelson Harrison (Trombone), George Green (Sax), Butch Martin (Piano), Chad

38 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

The Lovations consisted of Penny and Crystal Wilson, and the Saxons sisters. Apparently, their 45s were recorded with Pittsburgh jazz muscians including Nelson Harrison (Trombone), George Green (Sax), Butch Martin (Piano), Chad

 

is this the source?

if so it would help others if ya post the link with such grabs

PITTSBURGH JAZZ RECORDS AND BEYOND, 1950-1985
Carlos E. Peña, M.A.
University of Pittsburgh, 2007
 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania has always been a musically fertile city, and it has been the
incubator for many of the greatest musicians in the history of jazz. While not a major recording
center, Pittsburgh has maintained, since the 1950s, an active recording scene documenting the
work of jazz musicians living in the city. Because independent record labels and studios have
been the rule in Pittsburgh, many recordings made by great Pittsburgh musicians in Pittsburgh
have been overlooked.
...
http://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/7636/1/Pena_ETD2007_FINAL.pdf

37 minutes ago, Source said:

 

is this the source?

if so it would help others if ya post the link with such grabs

PITTSBURGH JAZZ RECORDS AND BEYOND, 1950-1985
Carlos E. Peña, M.A.
University of Pittsburgh, 2007
 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania has always been a musically fertile city, and it has been the
incubator for many of the greatest musicians in the history of jazz. While not a major recording
center, Pittsburgh has maintained, since the 1950s, an active recording scene documenting the
work of jazz musicians living in the city. Because independent record labels and studios have
been the rule in Pittsburgh, many recordings made by great Pittsburgh musicians in Pittsburgh
have been overlooked.
...
http://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/7636/1/Pena_ETD2007_FINAL.pdf

You Tube TBF and your find is excellent, thanks.

What page please ?

Edited January 10, 20223 yr by Blackpoolsoul

As well as "Heaven Told Me So" the flip side is also a great tune. 

"(I Keep Singing)La, La, La, ooh"

 

Edited January 10, 20223 yr by D9 Ktf

On 14/11/2012 at 18:41, Roburt said:

We'd know even more about the Lovations and Segue Records if only you had asked us back in 1987 .....

....... when the label's Nathan Davis was in London a couple of times & we could have asked him ................

A write up from 1967 cashbox

Seriously !!!!! mentions Goodway and Cap City in same section

Am I going mad (again) with the Silhouettes (Segue and Goodway) connection, surely total and utter coincidence of the highest order

 

Edited January 10, 20223 yr by Blackpoolsoul

32 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

A write up from 1967 cashbox

Seriously !!!!! mentions Goodway and Cap City in same paragraph

Am I going mad (again) with the Silhouettes (Segue and Goodway) connection, surely total and utter coincidence of the highest order

 

They are different paragraphs and two different stories. That is how the mag was laid out. I also posted the Goodway bit in the Silhouette’s topic. 

Old thread, but its not been mentioned that over here in the Uk at least, it was always thought as Cap City being the original label, not Part III. And it seems as far as I can see that the Cap City 45 fetches allot more money, well it did, today its just silly isnt it....  Got mine from Roger Stewart, cost me a fiver....

Cap City IS the first label for The Lovations, Part III came later. 

The Lovations were 100% from Pittsburgh and at the time of their recordings were Crystal & Penny Wilson and Sherry Henderson. Crystal's daughter incidentally was the singer Shanice. 

 

 

Steve 

Edited January 10, 20223 yr by Steve G

1 hour ago, Steve G said:

Cap City IS the first label for The Lovations, Part III came later. 

The Lovations were 100% from Pittsburgh and at the time of their recordings were Crystal & Penny Wilson and Sherry Henderson. Crystal's daughter incidentally was the singer Shanice. 

 

 

Steve 

 

Mr Manship has this Lovations "Heaven Told Me So"/ "Keep on Singing" record listed on his auction on Part 111 records. He say's this on his write up;

"This 1968 release under the "publishers" banner of "PART III", which shortly after was promo'd and released on Foster Johnson's "Cap City" for wider distribution, that would lead to an impressive 4 x45s over just a two year period."

Just to add a little bit. CAP CITY RECORDS

La Salle Bldg,

Suite 707, 1028, Connecticut Ave

NW, Washington, DC 20036

Tel 202 296 5585

Pres Foster Johnson Jr

CapCity Part 111

I have two copies on Part 111. One in poor condition (plays ok) and one in nice condition. (neither for sale) I think it's like a poor mans Poets. Wrapped Around Your Finger. but easily as good.

Heaven told me so was Quite popular at Yate allnighter

played by Dave Thorley if my memories correct

great record

ATB

Floyd